date:20060309

Brian Elmegaard wrote:
 bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
Now how you could do it the OO way (QD, not really tested):
 
 
 Something goes wrong in my 2.3 

So it's time to move to 2.4x !-)

What is going wrong exactly ?

 when I change the syntax to
 _add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance).

 If I understand this correctly the class is keeping track of the
 instances of itself.

Yeps.

 The class is extendible and has all the needed
 methods. This means that any global lists can be
 avoided. 

Yeps too. This is called encapsulation.

But this also means you only have one list of instances - which may or
may not be ok for what you're trying to do. Note that there are possible
workarounds, like using a dict of lists:

class Foo(object):
  _instance_lists = {}

  def __init__(self, x, list_id):
self.x = x # no, you won't avoid it
self._add_instance(self, list_id)

  @classmethod
  def _add_instance(cls, instance, list_id):
 cls._instance_lists.setdefault(list_id, []).append(instance)

  @classmethod
  def get_instances(cls, list_id):
return cls._instance_lists[list_id].[:]

  # now you need to add the list_id parameter to all others classmethods

Also, if you intend to use such a solution (with or without multiple
lists), you may want to add a classmethod to delete instances from the
list(s).



-- 
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p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
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implementation of complex type

2006-03-09 Thread Russ

I tried the following:

 x = complex(4)
 y = x
 y *= 2
 print x, y
(4+0j) (8+0j)

But when I tried the same thing with my own class in place of
complex above, I found that both x and y were doubled. I'd like to
make my class behave like the complex class. Can someone tell me the
trick? Also, where can I find the code for for the complex class? I
hope it's written in Python! Thanks.

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Re: Learning different languages

2006-03-09 Thread Christoph Hess


Harry George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 gene tani [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Rich wrote:
  Hi,
 
  (this is a probably a bit OT here, but comp.lang seems rather
  desolated, so I'm not sure I would get an answer there. And right now
  I'm in the middle of learning Python anyway so...)
 
  Anyway, my question is: what experience you people have with working
  with different languages at the same time?

 http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/02/22/75452_09OPstrategic_1.html


 re the article:

 To say Java and Python could use the same libraries misses a) dynamic
 programming in python and b) the re-invent-the-wheel ethos of the whole
 Java world.

Jon Udell talks about Javascript not about Java. 


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Re: Threading.Lock() question

2006-03-09 Thread Alvin A. Delagon

I think I just found out my problem. How stupid of me, I should've 
created an instance of lock in the class Process instead of class Send. 
Good Heaven's python's threading rocks! I stress tested the server 
script having two clients sending requests on a while 1 loop without 
even a time.sleep() and yet it still runs! ^_^

class Process(threading.Thread):
   lock = threading.Lock() # Lock instance should be placed here
   def __init__(self,query)
  self.query = query
  threading.Thread.__init__(self)
   def run(self):
  ''' Some data processing code here '''
  Process.lock.acquire()
  cursor.execute(query)
  Process.lock.release()

class Send(Request__POA.Send):
   def push(self,query,...some args here):
  Process(query).start()

db = MySQL().connect()
cursor = db.make_cursor()
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Re: implementation of complex type

2006-03-09 Thread Mikael Olofsson

Russ wrote:
x = complex(4)
y = x
y *= 2
print x, y
 
 (4+0j) (8+0j)
 
 But when I tried the same thing with my own class in place of
 complex above, I found that both x and y were doubled. I'd like to
 make my class behave like the complex class. Can someone tell me the
 trick? Also, where can I find the code for for the complex class? I
 hope it's written in Python! Thanks.

Have your __imul__ and such return new objects, and not perform in-place 
modification if you do not want x and y to refer to the same object 
after y*=2.

/MiO
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accesibility of the namespace

2006-03-09 Thread Petr Jakes

In my code I have relatively wide dictionary definition (about 100
rows).

I would like to put it in to the different file (module) because of the
main code readability (say the name of the file will be
my_dictionary.py)

In the dictionary I have strings formatted using % operator like:
lcd={2:Your credit= %3d % (credit)}

While I am trying to import my_dictionary in to the main code, I am
getting:

exception unhandled NameError
name credit is not defined

How can I organize my code so the credit variable will be visible
in the my_dictionary namespace?

Thanks

Petr Jakes

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Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread Steve Holden

I've been thinking (and blogging) about python evangelism since PyCon, 
as a result of which I created a squidoo lens:

   http://www.squidoo.com/pythonlogy

Imagine my surprise at discovering that this has gone up in rank (by 
number of views) from # 442,000 or so to #153! Clearly there's some 
mileage in marketing Python, and I'd like to keep the buzz going if it 
means more people will adopt the language.

Any suggestions for improvement?

regards
  Steve
-- 
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Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogspot.com

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I much prefer the look and feel of the potential Ruby websites being developed at the moment. The Python site is very corporate and academic which could put many early adopters off. I'm sure you've all heard accusations that Python doesn't have the marketing drive of Ruby. Perhaps this is an example where we could do with taking a leaf out of Ruby's book? (
http://redhanded.hobix.com/redesign2005/)-Doug Bromleyblog.straw-dogs.co.uk
On 8 Mar 2006 14:20:29 -0800, Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Michael Tobis wrote: No one of the complainers and negativists do claim that they could do it much better. Indeed, I do not have to be able to write a particular program to
notice it has bugs. On the other hand, (since I think the design, while not brilliant, is good) fixing the logo is something that can be achieved without too much fuss.
But I think at times it might be usefull to consult professional aid. In the case of the logo design, I am not sure I agree. I think the twisted logo
http://saph.twistedmatrix.com/blog/archives/twisted.png and the PyCon logo
http://mirrors.ccs.neu.edu/Python/pub/old-www/pics/pycon-logo.gif were probably not designed by professional designers but rather by people who appreciate Python, and yet do have more appeal to the
community and the outside world alike. If we are going to use a snake motif, we should use snakes that look like snakes.Maybe its time for me to abandone this discussion. If you and othersfeel quite well represented by a pasty and wordy snake than go for it.
I do neither feel embraced nor bitten by it. And I don't just mean thelogo. We can do an awfull lot of comparisons with pages that failed butthis doesn't bring forth anything.This evening we talked at the Hofbraeuhaus at Munich about Michelangelo
whose sixtine chapel images where once overpainted because his figuresappeared naked as god created them. But maybe he was wrong and hiscustomer, the pope, was right and they were actually born with a leaf
covered their pubic hairs? The pope had to take responsibility and hadto appease possible and real critics. We can assume he was far frombeing an idiot but a serious man - a politician. As a serious person
myself I'm always a little splitted between Michelangelo and the pope.My own idealism expects Michelangelo doing such outstanding things thatit is beyond anything. Nothing could be better than having the uptights
as the most severe enemies. What a fun! But as it seems my politicalparty is guided by ordinary indifferent humans as well and Michelangelomay be as much attracted by it as I am by e.g. the german socialdemocratic party? So I should track back and rethink the professional
aid which might be not what I'm really looking for. Guido feels a deepjoy about the resonance between Python and an programmer and artist -Juergen Scheible - who likes the language, feels inspired by it and
creates a little artwork for Nokia 60s. So there is some inversion inthe right direction. Suddenly Python appears a bit distorted withinanother context and it becomes sexy again. Should we talk about Apple
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Re: Threading.Lock() question

2006-03-09 Thread Alvin A. Delagon

@ Dennis

Thanks for the quick heads up! You're right! I noticed the bug on my 
script just after sending out my question. Yes, I'm using MySQLdb but I 
did a wrapper for it to further simplify my script that why the sample 
script I wrote is a little bit different. Thanks again! Python rules!!! ^_^
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Re: implementation of complex type

2006-03-09 Thread Juho Schultz

Russ wrote:
 I tried the following:
 
 
x = complex(4)
y = x
y *= 2
print x, y
 
 (4+0j) (8+0j)
 
 But when I tried the same thing with my own class in place of
 complex above, I found that both x and y were doubled. I'd like to
 make my class behave like the complex class. Can someone tell me the
 trick? Also, where can I find the code for for the complex class? I
 hope it's written in Python! Thanks.
 

This is like the difference of tuples and lists.

Your own class is mutable.
y=x # Names x and y are now bound to the same object.
y*=2 # change the object bound to names x and y.

Builtin complex is immutable, so you can not manipulate the contents.
y*=2 # creates a new object (value = 2*y), binds it to name y.
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How to dervie from an instance object?

2006-03-09 Thread reinsn

Hi,

I am currently working with ZopeX3. Because python doesn't include
concept of interfaces, those were defined by the module zope.interface.

So interfaces were defined like:

class IMyInterface(zope.interface.Interface):
   .


I have looked into the module zope.interface and found, that
zope.interface.Interface is an object instance and no class object! But
how does this work? How can I derive from an object instance?

I mean is something like this possible in Python?

class X: pass

x = X()

class Y (x):
  .


Thanks for the replies in advance!

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Re: Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread Just

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've been thinking (and blogging) about python evangelism since PyCon, 
 as a result of which I created a squidoo lens:
 
http://www.squidoo.com/pythonlogy
 
 Imagine my surprise at discovering that this has gone up in rank (by 
 number of views) from # 442,000 or so to #153! Clearly there's some 
 mileage in marketing Python, and I'd like to keep the buzz going if it 
 means more people will adopt the language.
 
 Any suggestions for improvement?

Yeah, the URL:

 http://www.squidoo.com/pythonology

:)

Just
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embedding Python: how to avoid memory leaks?

2006-03-09 Thread Andrew Trevorrow

No response to my last message, so I'll try a different tack...

Does anyone know of, or even better, has anyone here written a
C++ application for Mac/Windows that allows users to run Python
scripts from within the app?  Not just once, but many times in
a single session, and without leaking memory.  Preferably an
open source app so I can see how it's done.

Our app (http://golly.sourceforge.net/) currently uses calls
like these every time a user decides to run a script:

   Py_Initialize();
   PyRun_SimpleString(execfile('foo.py'));
   Py_Finalize();

But even if foo.py is *empty* the above calls result in a memory
leak of about 12K on Mac OS 10.3.9 (using Python 2.3) and about
11K on Windows 2000 (using Python 2.4.2).  I wouldn't mind if
there was a one-off cost due to calling Py_Initialize the very
first time, but we see leaks every time a script is executed.

I've tried calling Py_Initialize just once (at app startup)
and Py_Finalize once on exit, but that doesn't really solve
anything.  It avoids leaks when using trivial scripts (like
an empty .py file!) but we want to run some rather complicated
scripts that consume lots of memory, so we need a reliable way
to release that memory.  I was surprised to discover that
Py_Finalize doesn't always do that.

Is there some magic Python code that can restore memory usage
to what it was before each execfile call?  Something like
PostScript's save and restore.

I've been struggling with this problem for about a week now.
Having been seduced by Python's power and beauty I'd hate to
have to abandon it and switch to Perl or some other crappy
scripting language!  Please help...

Andrew
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Re: generators shared among threads

2006-03-09 Thread jess . austin

Bryan,

You'll get the same result without the lock.  I'm not sure what this
indicates.  It may show that the contention on the lock and the race
condition on i aren't always problems.  It may show that generators, at
least in CPython 2.4, provide thread safety for free.  It does seem to
disprove my statement that, the yield leaves the lock locked.

More than that, I don't know.  When threading is involved, different
runs of the same code can yield different results.  Can we be sure that
each thread starts where the last one left off?  Why wouldn't a thread
just start where it had left off before?  Of course, this case would
have the potential for problems that Alex talked about earlier.  Why
would a generator object be any more reentrant than a function object?
Because it has a gi_frame attribute?  Would generators be thread-safe
only in CPython?

I started the discussion with simpler versions of these same questions.
 I'm convinced that using Queue is safe, but now I'm not convinced that
just using a generator is not safe.

cheers,
Jess

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Re: license preamble template

2006-03-09 Thread Alan Mackenzie

Xah Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 4 Mar 2006 10:21:11 -0800:
 I noticed, that in just about all emacs programs on the web (elisp
 code), it comes with this template text as its preamble:

[  ]

 ;; This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
 ;; WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
 ;; MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
 ;; General Public License for more details.

[  ]

 Concerned parties and the FSF foundation, please remove the middle
 section of this template. That section is mainly for lawyers, for
 programers to protect themselves in the context of modern society's law
 system. Legally speaking, that section is redundant because it is in
 the GNU General Public License itself.

That section is there to draw people's attention to the lack of a
warranty, to cause them to contrast it with the warranty offered by
non-free software, which typically is restricted to replacing the
distribution CD if it can't be read.

 The effect of that section in a license summary is fueling the habit
 and sanction of irresponsible programing we see all around us.

My impression is that irresponsible programming tends to come with a
guarantee to replace the distribution CD if it can't be read.

 In place of that section, i'd propose replacing it with the following
 gist:

 ??This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful. The
 author(s) has responsibly produced it, and will take reasonable
 responsibilities with regards to the program's intended purpose and
 workability. For legal aspects of WARRANTY, please see the GNU General
 Public License for more details.??

Nah, that's too defensive and wooly.  If you get an Email from a stranger
that says checked virus-free by , would you believe that?  No?
Then why would you believe a programmer who feels he has to assert he has
done his work responsibly, whatever that might mean?  It's legally
dubious, and wouldn't inspire any confidence whatsoever.  Responsibility
is shown by actions and results, not promises.

[  ]

Xah

-- 
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Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like aa), remove half of them (leaving, say, a).

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Re: Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread Gerard Flanagan

Steve Holden wrote:
 I've been thinking (and blogging) about python evangelism since PyCon,
 as a result of which I created a squidoo lens:

http://www.squidoo.com/pythonlogy

 Imagine my surprise at discovering that this has gone up in rank (by
 number of views) from # 442,000 or so to #153! Clearly there's some
 mileage in marketing Python, and I'd like to keep the buzz going if it
 means more people will adopt the language.

 Any suggestions for improvement?


 '-nology' not '-nlogy' in the link.

I like the 'What's Happening on Planet Python' section - I find the
planetpython.org gives too much of an intro to the pages it links to. A
line or too, as in the lens site,  would be preferable in my view.
Just a thought - would a similar section be suitable for 'python.org'
main page?

Gerard

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Re: Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread Doug Bromley

Python is in desperate need of marketing and I don't think its new site will help it.The Ruby community has a fanaticism we could learn from and its going some way to 'converting' me. The community is alive, growing, shouting from the roof tops while the Python community seems to sit in its ivory towers conducting research and corporate development in 'forward-thinking' companies such as Google.
I can see Ruby overtaking Python if we don't ALL do something about it.On 9 Mar 2006 02:43:53 -0800, Gerard Flanagan 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Steve Holden wrote: I've been thinking (and blogging) about python evangelism since PyCon,
 as a result of which I created a squidoo lens:http://www.squidoo.com/pythonlogy Imagine my surprise at discovering that this has gone up in rank (by
 number of views) from # 442,000 or so to #153! Clearly there's some mileage in marketing Python, and I'd like to keep the buzz going if it means more people will adopt the language. Any suggestions for improvement?
 '-nology' not '-nlogy' in the link.I like the 'What's Happening on Planet Python' section - I find theplanetpython.org gives too much of an intro to the pages it links to. A
line or too, as in the lens site,would be preferable in my view.Just a thought - would a similar section be suitable for 'python.org'main page?Gerard--
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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 So it's time to move to 2.4x !-)

I guess so.


 What is going wrong exactly ?

  def _add_instance(cls, instance):
  _add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)
  cls._instances.append(instance)

gives me:
d:/DTU/80494 $ python.exe ooo.py 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File ooo.py, line 36, in ?
Foo(value)
  File ooo.py, line 6, in __init__
self._add_instance(self)
  File ooo.py, line 9, in _add_instance
_add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)
UnboundLocalError: local variable '_add_instance' referenced before assignment
d:/DTU/80494 $ 

 Yeps too. This is called encapsulation.

Interesting. 

 Also, if you intend to use such a solution (with or without multiple
 lists), you may want to add a classmethod to delete instances from the
 list(s).

I will have to study classmethods.

-- 
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http://www.rugbyklubben-speed.dk
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Re: implementation of complex type

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:15:57 -0800, Russ wrote:

 I tried the following:
 
 x = complex(4)
 y = x
 y *= 2
 print x, y
 (4+0j) (8+0j)
 
 But when I tried the same thing with my own class in place of
 complex above, I found that both x and y were doubled. I'd like to
 make my class behave like the complex class. Can someone tell me the
 trick? Also, where can I find the code for for the complex class? I
 hope it's written in Python! Thanks.

Or, to put it another way:

Here's some code that works!

Now, I've written some *other* code, which has a bug in it. Who'd like to
guess what the bug is?

Why don't you show us your complex class?

Also, why are you re-inventing the wheel? Is it just to learn the
language? Or because you want to add extra functionality? Or just NIH
Syndrome? If it is a learning exercise, they I applaud you; if it is to
add extra functionality, there is a better way.



-- 
Steven.

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[OT] .DS_Store files (was Re: Removing .DS_Store files from mac folders)

2006-03-09 Thread Dan Sommers

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:19:15 +1300,
Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't think that deleting the .DS_Store files is the
 right approach to this, for various reasons:

[ ... ]

 * It might not even work, since the .DS_Store could
   get re-created in between your purge and creating
   the tarball.

 It would be better to just avoid putting the .DS_Store
 files in the tarball. For example, collect the pathnames
 of all the .DS_Store files and give them as an exclusion
 list to tar.

If these are both true, then *new* .DS_Store files could
be created after I've made the list and before I've made
the tarball.

Regards,
Dan

-- 
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http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/
I wish people would die in alphabetical order. -- My wife, the genealogist
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Re: RAD tutorials and tools for GUI development with Python?

2006-03-09 Thread Ravi Teja

 Interesting link, but the focus there seems to be encoperating Python into 
 Delphi apps in Windows. My focus is more getting Delphi like GUI building, 
 but coding python on Linux.


According to the web site
http://mmm-experts.com/VersionHistory.aspx?ProductId=3
it supports Lazarus, which is a Delphi clone that runs on most
platforms on Linux. I can vouch for Lazarus as a fine tool.
I think I used WINE in the past successfully with Delphi apps with
embedded Python on Linux.

Delphi quality integrated GUI builders are not available to any dynamic
language yet. But if you prefer a pure Python approach libglade and Qt
Designer are the paths of least resistance for Linux currently.

(I am adding this to the group. Let's keep the on-topic discussions
here so that others may offer better suggestions)

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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 You should look into __cmp__ and other magic methods. This is probably
 the type of functionality you seem to be after.

Good example, I need to look at the magic methods.
What I want is to get the value of another variable in C. Would I need to
use __repr__ and get the id from it to find xx of the instance with
maximum x? 

class C:
   def __init__(self, x):
 self.x = x
 self.xx = x*x

sees = [C(x) for x in (4,7,1,3,0,9,2)]  # random-ish ints
print max(sees)

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Re: embedding Python: how to avoid memory leaks?

2006-03-09 Thread Torsten Bronger

Hallöchen!

Andrew Trevorrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 [...]

 [...]  Not just once, but many times in a single session, and
 without leaking memory.  Preferably an open source app so I can
 see how it's done.

 Our app (http://golly.sourceforge.net/) currently uses calls
 like these every time a user decides to run a script:

Py_Initialize();
PyRun_SimpleString(execfile('foo.py'));

Does PyRun_AnyFile show the same effect?  That's the way I'm about
to go.

Tschö,
Torsten.

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Re: New python.org website

2006-03-09 Thread Nicola Musatti


Michael Tobis wrote:
[...]
 On the other hand, (since I think the design, while not brilliant, is
 good) fixing the logo is something that can be achieved without too
 much fuss.

The obviously perfect logo would be Kaa's face:
http://disney.go.com/vault/archives/villains/kaa/kaa.html

After all even my two and a half year old kids know that Kaa is *the*
python. However I suspect it would take a lot of money to license that.
[...]
 Finally, I disagree that the current logo is better than the neutral
 but consistently used php logo or the very clever java coffee mug logo,
 and notably the Ruby on Rails logo, which is first rate.

The Java logo has the problem that it is not universal: in Italy for
instance the name Java has no connection with coffee.

Cheers,
Nicola Musatti

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Re: accesibility of the namespace

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:42:55 -0800, Petr Jakes wrote:

 In my code I have relatively wide dictionary definition (about 100
 rows).
 
 I would like to put it in to the different file (module) because of the
 main code readability (say the name of the file will be
 my_dictionary.py)
 
 In the dictionary I have strings formatted using % operator like:
 lcd={2:Your credit= %3d % (credit)}

The values in the dictionary (e.g. Your credit= 9.99, or whatever value
credit actually has) are fixed at creation. I assume that means that
credit etc. are also fixed values.


 While I am trying to import my_dictionary in to the main code, I am
 getting:
 
 exception unhandled NameError
 name credit is not defined
 
 How can I organize my code so the credit variable will be visible
 in the my_dictionary namespace?

Put it in the same module as my_dictionary.

E.g. 

# Module my_dictionary.py
# which I hope will have a more sensible name before being used
# for production-code
credit = 27
foo = 15
lcd = {2: Your credit= %3d % credit}

On the other hand, if credit is a calculated value, this might not be
an easy thing to do. In that case, you can do this:


# Module calculatevalues.py
credit = some_function()
foo = some_other_function()

# Module my_dictionary.py
import calculatevalues
lcd = {2: Your credit= %3d % calculatevalues.credit}



On the third hand, if the strings from the dictionary are supposed to be
changed at run-time (which sounds more sensible to me) then do this:

# Module my_dictionary.py
lcd = {2: Your credit= %3d}


# main program
import my_dictionary
... lots of code here
credit = 27
... more code
print lcd[2] % credit




-- 
Steven.

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Re: advice on this little script

2006-03-09 Thread Kent Johnson

Alex Martelli wrote:
 John Salerno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
 
I think the 'from time import sleep' looks cleaner, because I'm only 
taking what I need (is an import any more expensive than this from?),
but I also feel like the 'time.sleep' syntax is much more 
self-describing and better to read than just 'sleep'.

So what do you guys think between these two choices?

I use both fairly interchangeably. When I just need one or two things 
from the module, or if I am going to use something a lot, I use from xx 
import yy.
 
 
 I only use the 'from' statement to import specific modules from a
 package, never to import specific objects (functions, classes, or
 whatever) from a module. It scales much better: when reading a long
 module, I _know_ that any barename X always refers to a local,
 nested-scope, or global name, never to something snatched from
 who-recalls-what module -- in the latter case I'll never see a barename,
 but always somemodule.X, and searching for '... import somemodule' will
 immediately tell me where somemodule was coming from (should I need to
 be reminded of that information).

If you use from xx import yy, searching for yy will show you its 
provenance as well.

 From xx import * is evil because it does hide the provenance of names. 
It can also give unexpected results - if xx contains from zz import *, 
then all of the names from zz will also be imported into the module 
importing xx!

Kent
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Re: Learning different languages

2006-03-09 Thread Frithiof Andreas Jensen


Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Tuesday 07 March 2006 04:44 pm, Rich wrote:

 I've been trying to get my kids to learn a little Python for some
 time, but it hasn't been too easy for them yet.  Then, out of the
 blue, they want to learn Lua.

 Why?

 Simple -- Lua is the extension language for Enigma. So they want to
 make new game levels ergo, they must use Lua.  Motivation matters
 more than ease, IMHO. :-)

 We realized recently that while teaching kids to program is hard,
 teaching them to *hack* is easy. Once they learn to hack game
 levels, they will learn, from the level designers, basics about
 scripting and then programming, and they'll start to ask how
 can I make this easier?


Hacking is The Way - I learned Z80 assembly language to cheat in Space
Invaders on a Microbee conputer ;-). You can teach them some methods that
make their hacking easier, like debuggers, script tools and all that.

Maybe a Pyhton tool to simplify/generate skeleton code could be a devious
way of getting Python involved?

My son is quite proficient in using a collection of quite hairy build tools
because he likes to build levels for Counter Strike Source. He has no
interest in computers what so ever.


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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:24:05 +0100, Brian Elmegaard wrote:

 James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 You should look into __cmp__ and other magic methods. This is probably
 the type of functionality you seem to be after.
 
 Good example, I need to look at the magic methods.
 What I want is to get the value of another variable in C. Would I need to
 use __repr__ and get the id from it to find xx of the instance with
 maximum x? 
 
 class C:
def __init__(self, x):
  self.x = x
  self.xx = x*x
 
 sees = [C(x) for x in (4,7,1,3,0,9,2)]  # random-ish ints
 print max(sees)


Can you explain more carefully what you are trying to do? If you want the
square of the maximum value, just do this:

max(4,7,1,3,0,9,2)**2


__repr__ is *not* the way to get the ID of a general object:

 repr(4)
'4'

For some objects, the default representation includes the ID as part of
the representation string, but that's not the way to get the ID. The way
to do that is with the id() function.

Right, now that you've learnt how to get the ID of an object, scrub it
from your mind. You won't need it. You can't use it. It isn't the way to
do whatever you are trying to do, whatever it is that you are trying to
do. These aren't the droids you are looking for.

[The above paragraph is always true, except for the exceptions when it is
not true. You will know when you need id(). If you only *think* you need
id(), you don't need it.]

Seriously though, you can't generally work backwards to see where an
object came from (which list, which dictionary, whatever). In general,
objects do not know what references there are to that object. If your
algorithm relies on object X knowing that it is the 5th item of list L,
then you must either store that information yourself somewhere, and
maintain it, or you must change your algorithm. 



-- 
Steven.

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Alternative style sheets - Re: New python.org website

2006-03-09 Thread Magnus Lycka

Phoe6 wrote:
 beta.python.org evolved  very nice and noticed today the new python.org
 website going live. There is a change in the look n feel, wherein it
 looks more official and maximum possible information about python is
 now directly accessible from the home page itself.  Kudoes to the
 design team.

I also feel this is a big improvement.

I know that a web site like this needs constant nurturing, so
I hope that it's been developed in such as way that it will
be easier to maintain it and to involve more contributors.

Concerning style sheets, it's pretty trivial to make several
style sheets and let people use the one they like best.

If we enable that, it should also be simple to see from the
web site statistics which style sheet people prefer. Then we
can use the most popular style sheet as the default!

Since people have different tastes, different screens with
various resolutions and colors etc, darker or lighter rooms,
might want different styles for on-screen viewing and on paper
etc, I think it would be a good idea to have several styes
even if there is no ambivalence concerning what look we want.
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Re: accesibility of the namespace

2006-03-09 Thread Petr Jakes

Thanks Steven,
credit is mentioned to be a calculated value  changed at run-time and
your third hand suggestion is exactly what I was looking for.

Petr Jakes

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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:54:11 +0100, Brian Elmegaard wrote:

 What is going wrong exactly ?
 
   def _add_instance(cls, instance):
   _add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)
   cls._instances.append(instance)
 
 gives me:
 d:/DTU/80494 $ python.exe ooo.py 
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File ooo.py, line 36, in ?
 Foo(value)
   File ooo.py, line 6, in __init__
 self._add_instance(self)
   File ooo.py, line 9, in _add_instance
 _add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)
 UnboundLocalError: local variable '_add_instance' referenced before assignment

This isn't a bug in version 2.3. It is a bug in your code.  Follow the
code at runtime when you call the method:

Calling x._add_instance(foo) calls the _add_instance method with arguments
x.__class__ and foo. The first instruction that gets executed is:

_add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)

but _add_instance doesn't exist inside the method's local scope, so you
get an UnboundLocalError exception.

What you probably think you want is something like this:

class Foo:
_instances = []

def _add_instance(cls, instance):
cls._instances.append(instance)

_add_instances = classmethod(_add_instances)


I say think you want because I don't know what problem you are trying to
solve with this messy, self-referential, piece of code. If you could
explain what your goal is, there is probably a better way of reaching it.


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Re: [OT] .DS_Store files (was Re: Removing .DS_Store files from mac folders)

2006-03-09 Thread Eric Deveaud

Dan Sommers wrote:
  If these are both true, then *new* .DS_Store files could
  be created after I've made the list and before I've made
  the tarball.


not python related, but in order to creater the tarball without the .DS_Store
files why don't you use the --exclude=PATTERN option from tar ??

Eric

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Re: question about slicing with a step length

2006-03-09 Thread André


Terry Reedy wrote:
  John Salerno wrote:
  Given:
   numbers = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
   can someone explain to me why
   numbers[10:0:-2] results in [10, 8, 6, 4, 2]?

 It appears that s[i:j:-1] is s[(j+1):(i+1)] .reverse()'ed.  For 'numbers',
 this is 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2].  Then take every other item.  Why the
 +1?  Don't know and not my intuitive expectation.  I just know that
 extended slicing was developed for and until recently pretty much
 restricted to numeric (now numpy).

It's not simply +1.
 a = range(10)
 a[9:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3, 1]

 a[10:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3, 1]

 a[11:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3, 1]

 a[42:0:-2]
[9, 7, 5, 3, 1]

 Steven D'Aprano
  I think the documentation is misleading/incomplete when
  it comes to negative strides for extended slices.

 and Andre Agreed! also, and you three aren't the only ones.  Maybe some
 day I will read the source, think about it more, and post a suggested
 revision for comment  ... or maybe someone will beat me to it.

I, myself, think that the slicing behaviour is broken in this case.
From the little I understand (without looking at the source),
adjustment on the boundaries of the slicing request (the first 2
numbers) is done first, to make them positive and, I believe, ensure
that they do not extend beyond the boundaries of the sequence.  Then,
the actual stepping through is performed.

In my (most likely not-well informed enough opinion), the behaviour
should be the following:
from [i: j: k],
if k  0 and j = i : return []
if k 0 and j = i : return []
otherwise, build the following list of numbers:
i, i+k, i+2*k,
until i +n*k = j (if k0; use = if k0)
where the last number is excluded, i.e.
[0: 2: 1] = list(0, 1)
*Then*, exclude from the list just built any negative numbers, or any
number greater than the length of the sequence to be sliced.

So, [10:0:-2] would yield the following list of numbers
[10, 8, 6, 4, 2] before trimming;  applying this to
range(10), would end up with result in trimming 10 from the list
built.
Thus, we are looking at indices [8, 6, 4, 2] of range(10), which happen
to be the numbers [8, 6, 4, 2] in this case.  We should end up with
the same list if we ask for [42:0:-2].   This is not the observed
behaviour,
as we get [9, 7, 5, 3, 1].
If we ask Python to do
 a[0:10:2]
we get
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8]
which is correct.  It seems to me that the following (pseudo-code, not
valid Python)
a[2:10:2] == a[8:0:-2].reversed()
should be true, just like
a[1:10:1] == a[9:0:-1].reversed()
is true.

I *suspect* that boundary adjustments are performed first before
creating a sequence of indices, so that there is less trimming (as
described above) for the sake of efficiency ... and that this is not
done properly.

Then again, perhaps I simply don't understand what slices are supposed
to do

André

 
 Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: grayscale pixel based graphics with pygame

2006-03-09 Thread Brian L. Troutwine

Thank you, but that wasn't quite what I was looking for. I do admit,
however, that my post wasn't very clear (writting while exceptionally
tired is not a very clever thing to do.) As Terry mentioned below this
should be a question for the pygame mailing lists, so I'll take it
there.

Thanks again though.

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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Can you explain more carefully what you are trying to do? If you want the
 square of the maximum value, just do this:

I want to get the value of another attribute of the instance with
maximum x. 

I know I could do it like you suggest for the case with x*x, but the
other attribute does not depend on x.

 [The above paragraph is always true, except for the exceptions when it is
 not true. You will know when you need id(). If you only *think* you need
 id(), you don't need it.]

:-)

 algorithm relies on object X knowing that it is the 5th item of list L,
 then you must either store that information yourself somewhere, and
 maintain it, or you must change your algorithm. 

OK, I think this is the answer I was looking for.

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Re: grayscale pixel based graphics with pygame

2006-03-09 Thread Brian L. Troutwine

Geez, I apologize for my post being so vague. I was terribly tired when
I wrote that, and should have known better than to post.

I was not aware of the pygame mailing list. I will take this question
there.

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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 What you probably think you want is something like this:

Thanks, that made it run.
Now I need to study what classmethods are.

 I say think you want because I don't know what problem you are trying to
 solve with this messy, self-referential, piece of code. If you could
 explain what your goal is, there is probably a better way of reaching it.

Probably, this was just an example posted to show me how to add all
the instances to the class.

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Inter-module globals

2006-03-09 Thread Anton81

Hi,

I want to use globals that are immediately visible in all modules. My
attempts to use global haven't worked. Suggestions?

Anton
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Re: Inter-module globals

2006-03-09 Thread Jorge Godoy

Anton81 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I want to use globals that are immediately visible in all modules. My
 attempts to use global haven't worked. Suggestions?

Use a module and a class variables for that.  Import your module and
read/update class variables as you need them.


-- 
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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
- Qualquer coisa dita em latim soa profundo.
- Anything said in Latin sounds smart.
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Re: embedding Python: how to avoid memory leaks?

2006-03-09 Thread Andrew Trevorrow

  Our app (http://golly.sourceforge.net/) currently uses calls
  like these every time a user decides to run a script:
 
 Py_Initialize();
 PyRun_SimpleString(execfile('foo.py'));
 
 Does PyRun_AnyFile show the same effect?  That's the way I'm about
 to go.

I couldn't get the PyRun_*File* calls to work on Windows, presumably
because of the FILE* problem mentioned in the docs.

I'll be very surprised if it makes any difference to the memory
leak problem.  Let me know how you get on!

Andrew
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Re: implementation of complex type

2006-03-09 Thread cfbolz

Hi!

Russ wrote:
 I tried the following:

  x = complex(4)
  y = x
  y *= 2
  print x, y
 (4+0j) (8+0j)

 But when I tried the same thing with my own class in place of
 complex above, I found that both x and y were doubled. I'd like to
 make my class behave like the complex class. Can someone tell me the
 trick? Also, where can I find the code for for the complex class? I
 hope it's written in Python! Thanks.

In CPython it is actually written in C, implemented in the
Objects/complexobject.c file. See for example:

http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/complexobject.c?rev=42596view=markup

In PyPy it is indeed a pure Python implementation right now:

http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/dist/pypy/module/__builtin__/app_complex.py

Cheers,

Carl Friedrich Bolz

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Re: cgi problem

2006-03-09 Thread Kent Johnson

Paul Rubin wrote:
 Tim Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
Yes, but the CGI module doesn't write anything, so the advice of writing a
Location: header still applies.
 
 
 Aha, it's coming from CGIHTTPServer.py:CGIHTTPRequestHandler.run_cgi()
 where it says
 
 self.send_response(200, Script output follows)
 
 I got the two modules confused.  This still leaves me with the same
 basic problem, how to suppress the sending of that header.

Ah, now I get it. This does look like a bug in CGIHTTPServer to me. As 
you note, it hardcodes the 200 status response. The CGI spec says that 
the CGI program can use the Status: header to tell the server what 
status code to send but CGIHTTPServer doesn't do that.

ISTM the spec requires the server to buffer and interpret the HTTP 
headers from the CGI so the Status header can be set based on the CGI 
response.
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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
(snip)

 I say think you want because I don't know what problem you are trying to
 solve with this messy, self-referential, piece of code.

This messy piece of code is mine, thanks !-)

And it's not self-referential - it introduces a references cycle
(class object - instances - class object), which may or may not be a
problem.

 If you could
 explain what your goal is, 

He did (more or less), please read the original post.

 there is probably a better way of reaching it.

Probably, yes.

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p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)

Brian Elmegaard wrote:
 bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
So it's time to move to 2.4x !-)
 
 
 I guess so.
 
 
 
What is going wrong exactly ?
 
 
   def _add_instance(cls, instance):
   _add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)
   cls._instances.append(instance)

You want

def _add_instance(cls, instance):
  cls._instances.append(instance)

_add_instance=classmethod(_add_instance)


(snip)

Also, if you intend to use such a solution (with or without multiple
lists), you may want to add a classmethod to delete instances from the
list(s).
 
 
 I will have to study classmethods.

May I suggest that you first learn the language syntax and basics ?-)

FWIW, a classmethod is a method that get the class object as first
argument (instance methods get a reference to the instance).


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p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
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Re: How to dervie from an instance object?

reinsn wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I am currently working with ZopeX3. Because python doesn't include
 concept of interfaces,

It does, but implicitly. The interface of an object is the set of
messages it understands.

 those were defined by the module zope.interface.
 
 So interfaces were defined like:
 
 class IMyInterface(zope.interface.Interface):
.
 
 I have looked into the module zope.interface and found, that
 zope.interface.Interface is an object instance and no class object! But
 how does this work? How can I derive from an object instance?

Python classes *are* objects - instances of their metaclass.

 I mean is something like this possible in Python?
 
 class X: pass
 
 x = X()
 
 class Y (x):
   .

Not directly. Google for Python +metaclass.



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Re: New python.org website

2006-03-09 Thread Magnus Lycka

Nicola Musatti wrote:
 The obviously perfect logo would be Kaa's face:
 http://disney.go.com/vault/archives/villains/kaa/kaa.html

The Soviet version is better, and I think most of the
Maugli movies are made before 1973, which means that
they aren't copyrighted outside the former Soviet Union.
(Disclaimer: IANAL)

I'm not sure either version really works as a logo though.
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Re: embedding Python: how to avoid memory leaks?

2006-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis

Andrew Trevorrow wrote:
 Our app (http://golly.sourceforge.net/) currently uses calls
 like these every time a user decides to run a script:
 
Py_Initialize();
PyRun_SimpleString(execfile('foo.py'));
Py_Finalize();
 
 But even if foo.py is *empty* the above calls result in a memory
 leak of about 12K on Mac OS 10.3.9 (using Python 2.3) and about
 11K on Windows 2000 (using Python 2.4.2).

I could reproduce a memory leak with the code

#include Python.h
int main()
{
  while(1){
Py_Initialize();
PyRun_SimpleString(execfile('foo.py'));
Py_Finalize();
  }
}

However, I could not reproduce a memory leak with the code

#include Python.h
int main()
{
  Py_Initialize();
  while(1){
PyRun_SimpleString(execfile('foo.py'));
  }
  Py_Finalize();
}

So I recommend you do Py_Initialize only once. It is well-known
that initializing the Python interpreter allocates memory that
can never be freed, e.g. global variables in extension modules
(there just isn't any API to tell all the modules to release their
memory). So a cycle of Py_Initialize/Py_Finalize will certainly
leak.

OTOH, PyRun_SimpleString shouldn't leak, and didn't when I
tried it.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: accesibility of the namespace

2006-03-09 Thread Petr Jakes

Ops. My keyboard (fingers) was faster than my mind :(
So
There is more than one run-time changed variable in the dictionary
and not all strings in the dictionary are formatted using % operator.
Example:
lcd={
2:{2:((Enter you choice),(Your kredit= %3d % (kredit)))},
4:{2:((Your choice: %2s % (keyboard)),(%-20s % (actKeyboard)))}}

I do not know which variable(s) to use for the % operator in the time
of the call of the value (% formatted string) from the dictionary.

This is also the reason why the variable names are stored in the
dictionary with the strings.

Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Petr Jakes

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Re: embedding Python: how to avoid memory leaks?

2006-03-09 Thread Torsten Bronger

Hallöchen!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Trevorrow) writes:

 [...]

 I couldn't get the PyRun_*File* calls to work on Windows, presumably
 because of the FILE* problem mentioned in the docs.

Which compiler do you use?

Tschö,
Torsten.

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Re: Inter-module globals

2006-03-09 Thread Schüle Daniel

Anton81 wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I want to use globals that are immediately visible in all modules. My
 attempts to use global haven't worked. Suggestions?
 
 Anton

I think a dictionary would work here
as well as list but not strings and int's

# module1
settings = {
release : 1.0,
blabla  : None,
}

# module2
import module1 as settings
print settings.settings[release]
settings.settings[blabla] = True


# module3
import module1 as settings
settings.settings[blabla] = False

Regards

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Re: accesibility of the namespace

2006-03-09 Thread Mikael Olofsson

Petr Jakes wrote:
 Ops. My keyboard (fingers) was faster than my mind :(
 So
 There is more than one run-time changed variable in the dictionary
 and not all strings in the dictionary are formatted using % operator.
 Example:
 lcd={
 2:{2:((Enter you choice),(Your kredit= %3d % (kredit)))},
 4:{2:((Your choice: %2s % (keyboard)),(%-20s % (actKeyboard)))}}
 
 I do not know which variable(s) to use for the % operator in the time
 of the call of the value (% formatted string) from the dictionary.
 
 This is also the reason why the variable names are stored in the
 dictionary with the strings.
 
 Any other suggestions?

So, use something like

  lcd={
2:{2:(Enter you choice,Your kredit= %(kredit)3d)},
4:{2:(Your choice: %(keyboard)2s ,%(actKeyboard)-20s)}}
  kredit = 7
  keyboard = 'aa'
  actKeyboard = 7654
  lcd[2][2][-1] % vars()
'Your kredit=   7'
  lcd[2][2][0] % vars()
'Enter you choice'
  lcd[4][2][0] % vars()
'Your choice: aa'
  lcd[4][2][1] % vars()
'7654'
 

HTH
/MiO
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Re: Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread Steve Holden

Doug Bromley wrote:
 Python is in desperate need of marketing and I don't think its new site 
 will help it.
 The Ruby community has a fanaticism we could learn from and its going 
 some way to 'converting' me.  The community is alive, growing, shouting 
 from the roof tops while the Python community seems to sit in its ivory 
 towers conducting research and corporate development in 
 'forward-thinking' companies such as Google.
 
OK, and this post will improve the situation how, exactly?

 I can see Ruby overtaking Python if we don't ALL do something about it.
 
Indeed. Hence http://www.squidoo.com/pythonology

And your contribution is ... yet another post about how we all need to 
*do* something? On the other hand, you could just roll up your sleeves 
and start doing something :-)

Your take on Python is likely unique: start telling people why *you* use it.

regards
  Steve

 On 9 Mar 2006 02:43:53 -0800, *Gerard Flanagan*  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Steve Holden wrote:
   I've been thinking (and blogging) about python evangelism since
 PyCon,
   as a result of which I created a squidoo lens:
  
  http://www.squidoo.com/pythonlogy
  
   Imagine my surprise at discovering that this has gone up in rank (by
   number of views) from # 442,000 or so to #153! Clearly there's some
   mileage in marketing Python, and I'd like to keep the buzz going
 if it
   means more people will adopt the language.
  
   Any suggestions for improvement?
  
 
 '-nology' not '-nlogy' in the link.
 
 I like the 'What's Happening on Planet Python' section - I find the
 planetpython.org http://planetpython.org gives too much of an
 intro to the pages it links to. A
 line or too, as in the lens site,  would be preferable in my view.
 Just a thought - would a similar section be suitable for 'python.org
 http://python.org'
 main page?
 
 Gerard

By the way, the apparent increase in rank was somewhat bogus given that 
there appear to be fewer than 20,000 lenses at present :-)
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Re: Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread Fredrik Lundh

Doug Bromley wrote:

 I can see Ruby overtaking Python if we don't ALL do something about it.

on the other hand, people have posted I can see XXX overtaking Python if we
don't ALL do something about it NOW messages for as long as I've been using
Python.

the best thing I've seen in the recent argh! this is the end threads that 
have been
popping up here and there is this advice from an anonymous ruby user, from a
comment on guido's blog:

My advice for you Pythonistas: First, chill; the mind works better when
relaxed. Second, look around and count your blessings; Python is every-
where. Third, just work on something you find interesting and fun.

have you used Python to work on something fun and interesting today?  if not, 
what's
your excuse? ;-)

/F 



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Re: why no block comments in Python?

2006-03-09 Thread Benji York

Terry Hancock wrote:
 I'm thinking this might be a use-case for the new support for
 doctests in a separate file.

Having doctests in their own file is (IMHO) a majorly under appreciated 
feature of doctest.  The ability to do either nice user (as in 
developer) docs with known good examples or well documented 
not-meant-for-documentation unit/functional/integration tests is terrific.
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String functions: what's the difference?

2006-03-09 Thread Harro de Jong

(absolute beginner here, sorry if this seems basic)

Section 7.10 of 'How to Think Like a Computer Scientist' contains this 
discussion of string.find and other string functions: 

(quote)
We can use these constants and find to classify characters. For example, if
find(lowercase, ch) returns a value other than -1, then ch must be lowercase:

def isLower(ch):
return string.find(string.lowercase, ch) != -1

Alternatively, we can take advantage of the in operator, which determines
whether a character appears in a string:
def isLower(ch):
return ch in string.lowercase

As yet another alternative, we can use the comparison operator:
def isLower(ch):
return 'a' = ch = 'z'
If ch is between a and z, it must be a lowercase letter.

As an exercise, discuss which version of isLower you think will be
fastest. Can you think of other reasons besides speed to prefer one
or the other?

(end quote)

I've tried all three, but the function is so small (test a single letter) I 
can't measure the difference. I'm using time.time() to see how long it takes to 
execute the function. 
I could use a loop to increase execution time, but then I might be measuring 
mostly overhead. 

I'd expect the third option to be the fastest (involves looking up 3 values, 
where the others have to iterate through a-z), but am I right? 
And reasons to prefer one? a-z doesn't contain all lowercase letters (it omits 
acents and symbols), but other than that? 


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Re: Python Evangelism

2006-03-09 Thread rtilley

Steve Holden wrote:
 Doug Bromley wrote:
 I can see Ruby overtaking Python if we don't ALL do something about it.

I think it's the name. Python. Let's change it to something nicer. Think 
about it... if you found a Ruby, you'd pick it up and put it in your 
pocket. If you ran across a Python, you'd run away.

Gems is nice too. Compare that to Cheese Shop... who came up with that 
:) Do you want a pretty gem stone or a smelly slice of cheese? I mean 
that in a literal sense. I don't think Python is smelly at all, but it 
certainly has chosen some slimy, smelly bad names for itself!

Psychology is important. Just as important as good design. I think this 
fact doesn't sink in to the Python community.
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how to get a page's html code via a proxy

2006-03-09 Thread JuHui

who can help me?
please give me a sample code. thanks a lot.

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Re: encoding problem

2006-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis

Yves Glodt wrote:
 It seems in general I have trouble with special characters...
 What is the python way to deal with éàè öäü etc...
 
 print 'é' fails here,
 print u'é' as well :-(
 
 How am I supposed to print non-ascii characters the correct way?

The second form should be used, but not in interactive mode.
In a Python script, make sure you properly declare the encoding
of your script, e.g.

# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-
print u'é'

That should work. If not, give us your Python version, operating
system name, and mode of operation.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: String functions: what's the difference?

2006-03-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis

Harro de Jong wrote:
 I've tried all three, but the function is so small (test a single letter) I 
 can't measure the difference. I'm using time.time() to see how long it takes 
 to 
 execute the function. 
 I could use a loop to increase execution time, but then I might be measuring 
 mostly overhead. 

Still, this is what you should do. Try the timeit.py module; it does the
loop for you. Surprisingly, one of the faster ways to do a loop is

nones = [None]*1000

start timer
for x in nones:
  action
stop timer

This is fast because no Python integers are created to implement the
loop.

 I'd expect the third option to be the fastest (involves looking up 3 values, 
 where the others have to iterate through a-z), but am I right? 

Just measure it for yourself. I just did, and the third option indeed
came out fastest, with the in operator only slightly slower.

 And reasons to prefer one? 

For what purpose? To find out whether a letter is lower-case?

Just use the .islower() method on the character for that.

Regards,
Martin
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First script, please comment and advise

2006-03-09 Thread Pedro Graca

I'm sure this isn't very pythonic; comments and advice appreciated


def curious(text):
 Return the words in input text scrambled except for the first and 
last letter. 
new_text = 
word = 
for ch in text:
if ch in abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ:
word = word + ch
else:
new_text = new_text + scramble(word)
word = 
new_text = new_text + ch
return new_text

def scramble(word):
 scramble word 
from random import randint

if len(word)  4:
return word
new_word = word[0]

### transform curious into ['u', 'r', 'i', 'o', 'u']
letters = []
for ch in word:
letters.append(ch)
del letters[0:1]
del letters[-1]

### why doesn't range(len(letters) - 1, 0, -1) work?
for i in range(len(letters) - 1, -1, -1):
j = randint(0, i)
new_word = new_word + letters[j]
del letters[j]
return new_word + word[-1]

print curious(curious.__doc__)


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opensource prayer

2006-03-09 Thread gen_tricomi

I and my opensource brothers/sisters are one. all i have is thiers.
therefore i will keep my source code open for them. we are free and
will remain free because freedom is the goal of evolution. OM OM OM
REPEAT THIS TO YOUR SELF AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE AS REGULARLY AS POSSIBLE
TO STRENGHTEN OUR COMMUNITY.

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Re: Simple questions on use of objects (probably faq)