ANN: PyMQI 1.1 - Python interface to WebSphere MQ
Hi, I'm happy to announce the release of PyMQI 1.1. *INTRODUCTION* PyMQI allows users to connect Python applications to WebSphere MQ queue managers. It can be used to develop test harnesses for WebSphere MQ based systems, for rapid prototyping of WebSphere MQ applications, for development of administrative GUIs or for mainstream MQ application development. PyMQI has been used in production environments for several years on Linux, Windows, Solaris and AIX with queue managers running on Linux, Windows, Solarix, AIX and z/OS mainframe. Supported WebSphere MQ versions are 5.0, 5.1, 5.3, 6.0 and 7.0. *What's new* * Added support for Windows AMD64, * Fixed several bugs related to PCF processing, * Added 20+ usage examples to documentation, * Created a PyMQI mailing list at http://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/pymqi-list. It's a good place to join if you'd like to be informed of upcoming releases and new planned features. *Hello world with PyMQI* Here's an example showing how easy it is to connect to WebSphere MQ and put a message on a queue. import pymqi qmgr = pymqi.QueueManager(None) qmgr.connectTCPClient(QM.1, pymqi.cd(), SVRCONN.CHANNEL.1, 192.168.1.121(1434)) q = pymqi.Queue(qmgr, TEST.QUEUE.1) q.put(Hello from Python) *Links* Project's homepage: http://packages.python.org/pymqi/ Download URL: https://launchpad.net/pymqi/+download Usage examples: http://packages.python.org/pymqi/examples.html Twitter: https://twitter.com/fourthrealm cheers, -- Dariusz Suchojad -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
source at: http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser $ python grail.py (note the lack of python1.5 or python2.4) conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out. entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always a hoot to try browsing http://www.bbc.co.uk or http://www.youtube.com with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled]. l. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 12:51 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: You don't need to build a tuple. Just change the tests, to if choiceIdx1 is not None. Its a little more work, sure. But its not enough that its even vaguely worth breaking the otherwise very useful behavior of bool(0) == False. Hmm, i beg to differ. The if choice1 is not None and choice2 is not None is going to run off my screen and into my neighbors backyard swimming pool! If you *can* Stefen, show the class a very useful case for integer bool-ing? Please do so, although i doubt you can offer one. Maybe you'll offer this kinda kludgy stuff... function(option=1) #instead of True function(option=0) #instead of False This is another example of the damage integer booling does to your code and your mind. What happened to explicit is better than implicit? What happened to tim toady is a SOB! It is easy to get drawn into this way of coding and very hard to pull out. And it's wrong, wrong, wrong. NEVER substitute 1 for True and/or 0 for False! NEVER! This is anti Pythonic! py import this -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On 7/10/10 11:03 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 12:51 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: You don't need to build a tuple. Just change the tests, to if choiceIdx1 is not None. Its a little more work, sure. But its not enough that its even vaguely worth breaking the otherwise very useful behavior of bool(0) == False. Hmm, i beg to differ. The if choice1 is not None and choice2 is not None is going to run off my screen and into my neighbors backyard swimming pool! if choiceIdx1 is not None and choiceIdx2 is not None: is 54 characters. Your straw man argument fails. Even if this is in a method of a class, that's only 64; even with another two levels of indentation it still isn't longer then the 80 which is where some people consider things long (I do not: I don't mind code 100). If you are so desperately concerned with space, then simply do: if (choiceIdx1, choiceIdx2) != (None, None): Its only eleven characters longer. Or, you can do: if None not in (choiceIdx1, choiceIdx2): Its only two characters. You really can't honestly be making an argument about two characters. If you *can* Stefen, My name is Stephen. This is the second time you've done this: if you can't show even the vaguest respect and actually use my name and not a mockery of it, then I'll just killfile you. show the class a very useful case for integer bool-ing? Please do so, although i doubt you can offer one. Maybe you'll offer this kinda kludgy stuff... function(option=1) #instead of True function(option=0) #instead of False Of course I won't offer that. If I wish a boolean flag, something which can have only one of two states (although sometimes a three-state 'maybe' is useful, with None being the 'neither true nor false'), I'd use the boolean. There's numerous cases where if x where x is an integer is useful. A counter is the simplest example. Say you're counting how many watermelons are in your inventory there is, and you want to test if there's any or not. if watermelons is the concise, readable, understandable way to express this. Readability counts. A boolean test in Python tests something verses nothing, it doesn't test Truth verses False It is entirely consistent in this regard (except in the case of custom classes which may decide to do strange things). Zero is, clearly, nothing. This is another example of the damage integer booling does to your code and your mind. Utter nonsense. No one does that unless they are coming from C or some other language without a True/False and don't know about it, or if they are using a codebase which is supporting a very old version of Python before True or False were introduced. But you're just going to argue endlessly, no doubt. Have you ever actually considered the fact that your gut reaction might, I don't know, be wrong or misguided? I've admitted when I'm wrong on more then one occasion. I really don't know why I bother. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 1:22 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: If you are so desperately concerned with space, then simply do: if (choiceIdx1, choiceIdx2) != (None, None): Its only eleven characters longer. Or, you can do: if None not in (choiceIdx1, choiceIdx2): Only the first example was worse than the second. You do realize that Python must build a tuple for ever conditional that uses this semantic? This is more bad, bad, bad than integer bool-ing! My bin packer could potentially compute millions of parts. I do not want to waste valuable processor cycles building numerous tuples just for the sake of a conditional condition! This is bad coding style Stephen. Its only two characters. You really can't honestly be making an argument about two characters. If you *can* Stefen, My name is Stephen. It was a typo not an on purpose misspelling Of course I won't offer that. If I wish a boolean flag, something which can have only one of two states (although sometimes a three-state 'maybe' is useful, with None being the 'neither true nor false'), I'd use the boolean. I agree... True, False, None. The trinity of bool-inity. There's numerous cases where if x where x is an integer is useful. A counter is the simplest example. Say you're counting how many watermelons are in your inventory there is, and you want to test if there's any or not. if watermelons is the concise, readable, understandable way to express this. Readability counts. I agree but when in a conditional bool(integer) should be forced. Look, don't try to shoove this under the mattress like nobody initializes a variable to None and then maybe or maybe not stores an array index in the variable and then later needs to test for true false in a conditional. It's very common to initialize a counter or index variable to None or 0. And later you don't want 0 and None bool- ing to False and range(1:infinity)+range(-infinity:-1) bool-ing to True! A boolean test in Python tests something verses nothing, it doesn't test Truth verses False It is entirely consistent in this regard (except in the case of custom classes which may decide to do strange things). Zero is, clearly, nothing. No shit! i am talking about CONDITIONALS HERE. Specifically CONDITIONALS and BOOL-ING! Utter nonsense. No one does that unless they are coming from C or some other language without a True/False and don't know about it, or if they are using a codebase which is supporting a very old version of Python before True or False were introduced. Ah yes, when nothing else seems to work fall back to you default programming... FUD and ad hominem attacks But you're just going to argue endlessly, no doubt. Have you ever actually considered the fact that your gut reaction might, I don't know, be wrong or misguided? I've admitted when I'm wrong on more then one occasion. I have no problem admitting when i wrong. In this case however i am completely right. Use True/False for bool-ing, None for emptyness, and integers for inetgers. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:03 AM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: This is another example of the damage integer booling does to your code and your mind. What happened to explicit is better than implicit? Explicit is better than implicit. Hence, if you're specifically testing for the property of not being None rather than for the more general truth value, it's better to write if choiceIdx1 is not None rather than just if choiceIdx. This holds true for empty collections as well. On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: There's numerous cases where if x where x is an integer is useful. A counter is the simplest example. Say you're counting how many watermelons are in your inventory there is, and you want to test if there's any or not. if watermelons is the concise, readable, understandable way to express this. Readability counts. I would also point out that the current semantics mean that bool(container), bool(len(container)), and len(container) 0 are all equivalent. I view this as a positive thing. It also means that if integer in Python and if (the_same_integer) in a C module have the same semantics. It would be a nasty surprise for writers of C modules if they didn't. And I think that partly this is simply historical. Before a proper boolean type was added to Python, 1 and 0 were the norm for storing truth values. Changing the truth value of 0 when bools were introduced would have broken tons of existing code. This is also the reason why bool is a subclass of int. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: And I think that partly this is simply historical. Before a proper boolean type was added to Python, 1 and 0 were the norm for storing truth values. Changing the truth value of 0 when bools were introduced would have broken tons of existing code. This is also the reason why bool is a subclass of int. Another thought related to that list bit: if bool(0) were True, then bool(int(False)) would also be True. That seems messed up. Then again, bool(str(False)) is already True. Does that bother anybody other than me? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
* rantingrick, on 11.07.2010 08:50: On Jul 11, 1:22 am, Stephen Hansenme+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: Utter nonsense. No one does that unless they are coming from C or some other language without a True/False and don't know about it, or if they are using a codebase which is supporting a very old version of Python before True or False were introduced. Ah yes, when nothing else seems to work fall back to you default programming... FUD and ad hominem attacks I agree with Stephen, but for a different reason: that given desirability of implicit conversion to bool for some elementary types, then for uniformity there should be such conversion for all of them (and AFAIK there is), and given that, the rule should be the same, namely that default value of each type bool's to False, and other values to True, and so it is. The OP should simply represent not found as e.g. integer -1 instead of as a value of a different type. And write e.g. not_found = -1 ... if choiceIdx1 == choiceIdx2 == not_found: bah, none of them elif choice2Idx == not_found: use choice 1 elif choice1Idx == not_found: use choice 2 else: determine bestest choice Cheers hth., - Alf -- blog at url: http://alfps.wordpress.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On 7/10/10 11:50 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 1:22 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: If you are so desperately concerned with space, then simply do: if (choiceIdx1, choiceIdx2) != (None, None): Its only eleven characters longer. Or, you can do: if None not in (choiceIdx1, choiceIdx2): Only the first example was worse than the second. You do realize that Python must build a tuple for ever conditional that uses this semantic? This is more bad, bad, bad than integer bool-ing! My bin packer could potentially compute millions of parts. I do not want to waste valuable processor cycles building numerous tuples just for the sake of a conditional condition! This is bad coding style Stephen. Nonsense. Prove it. Show actual benchmarks and actual problems to that style. Tests that do, in essence, if whatever in (constant1, constant2) are exceedingly common. The burden is on you to prove they are bad. With real data. Its only two characters. You really can't honestly be making an argument about two characters. If you *can* Stefen, My name is Stephen. It was a typo not an on purpose misspelling If this had been the first time, perhaps. If you had not in *numerous* previous times spelled my name correctly, perhaps. If it were at all possible for f to be a typo of ph, perhaps. As none of those are true, I must assume you are simply trying to be insulting. And yes, I do consider mangling my name to be an insult. There's numerous cases where if x where x is an integer is useful. A counter is the simplest example. Say you're counting how many watermelons are in your inventory there is, and you want to test if there's any or not. if watermelons is the concise, readable, understandable way to express this. Readability counts. I agree but when in a conditional bool(integer) should be forced. Uh, what? I left off the rest of this paragraph because it is incomprehensible. If bool(anything_at_all) returns True, then if anything_at_all must succeed. If bool(anything_at_all) returns False, then if anything_at_all must fail. To do otherwise would create two entirely different and strange definitions for what is Truth and what is False. Python defines them very clearly. Something. Verses. Nothing. 1 is something. 0 is nothing. A boolean test in Python tests something verses nothing, it doesn't test Truth verses False It is entirely consistent in this regard (except in the case of custom classes which may decide to do strange things). Zero is, clearly, nothing. No shit! i am talking about CONDITIONALS HERE. Specifically CONDITIONALS and BOOL-ING! I, too, am speaking of conditionals here. No shit back at you. The if statement works on the test, Is this something? If so, it executes its body. If not, it executes the 'else' body if present. Utter nonsense. No one does that unless they are coming from C or some other language without a True/False and don't know about it, or if they are using a codebase which is supporting a very old version of Python before True or False were introduced. Ah yes, when nothing else seems to work fall back to you default programming... FUD and ad hominem attacks Red herring. Do you know what FUD is? FUD is Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I didn't try to scare you about anything. I didn't try to make you uncertain if something would work. And so on, and so forth. I dismissed your utterly unfounded claim and example which you held up as proof of your central point as nonsense. Do you know what an ad hominem attack is? I didn't say, Your argument is invalid because you, a jackass, said it -- that would be an ad hominem attack. My statement is neither FUD, nor even an ad hominem attack. If you dispute my dismissal, show evidence. Any will do. Oh, I do admit that in the end, I did venture into the ad hominem area where I called into question your attitude and general behavior of utter Infallible Rightness and trolling tendencies, but that is not a logical fallacy. You can call into question the motives and character of a person -- provided you are not using this as the sole means of denying their claim. You can't simply sweep my argument aside by claiming its an ad hominem attack because besides my pointing out you're trollish behavior, I'm actually taking the time to refute your actual arguments with arguments of my own. But you're just going to argue endlessly, no doubt. Have you ever actually considered the fact that your gut reaction might, I don't know, be wrong or misguided? I've admitted when I'm wrong on more then one occasion. I have no problem admitting when i wrong. Please, show an example. In this case however i am completely right. Use True/False for bool-ing, None for emptyness, and integers for inetgers. Nonsense. None is not for emptiness. None is a discrete entity, which exists for a very specific purpose. It evaluates as false, certainly. But it is neither the
Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right? WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot wisely use variables like... str=this is a string list = [1,2,3] def make_random_objs(range=10) def show_message(str) int = 12 If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range, etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for Python 4000. Just thoughts. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
* Stephen Hansen, on 11.07.2010 09:19: On 7/10/10 11:50 PM, rantingrick wrote: It was a typo not an on purpose misspelling If this had been the first time, perhaps. If you had not in *numerous* previous times spelled my name correctly, perhaps. If it were at all possible for f to be a typo of ph, perhaps. It is a natural mistake to make in some languages. E.g. in Norwegian the Devil can be spelled Faen or Fanden (modern) or Phanden (old-fashioned, no longer in dictionaries but still used to sort of tone down the expression). It's even there in English, like file and philosophy. So it's an error committed not by the limbic system but by a slightly higher level sound-to-text translator brain circuit. The text is generated from how the word sounds in one's head. Cheers hth., - Alf -- blog at url: http://alfps.wordpress.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
* rantingrick, on 11.07.2010 09:26: Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right? WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot wisely use variables like... str=this is a string list = [1,2,3] def make_random_objs(range=10) def show_message(str) int = 12 If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range, etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for Python 4000. Just thoughts. Just do Str = str List = list Float = float and so on in module myBasicTypes, and import that. :-) Cheers hth., - Alf -- blog at url: http://alfps.wordpress.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com writes: unspeakably ugly code. I'd write the code differently to not do all those branches. I like to use 1-elemnt lists as an option type, instead of using None, so you can just concatenate them together to get the first non-empty one. Untested code: array = [c1,c2,c3,c4,c5,c6,...] # return first element of iterable that matches condition, wrapped # as a 1-element list. If no match, return empty list. def xfind(condition, iterable): for x in iterable: if condition(x): return [x] return [] while looping: cs = xfind(this_condition, array) + xfind(other_condition, array) # cs is now a list of either zero, one, or two matching elements if len(cs) == 1: r = cs[0] elif len(cs) = 2: r = whichever is best else: break best = array.pop(r) do_somthing_with(best) Obviously you can golf the above in various ways. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On 7/11/10 12:30 AM, Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet wrote: * Stephen Hansen, on 11.07.2010 09:19: On 7/10/10 11:50 PM, rantingrick wrote: It was a typo not an on purpose misspelling If this had been the first time, perhaps. If you had not in *numerous* previous times spelled my name correctly, perhaps. If it were at all possible for f to be a typo of ph, perhaps. It is a natural mistake to make in some languages. E.g. in Norwegian the Devil can be spelled Faen or Fanden (modern) or Phanden (old-fashioned, no longer in dictionaries but still used to sort of tone down the expression). It's even there in English, like file and philosophy. So it's an error committed not by the limbic system but by a slightly higher level sound-to-text translator brain circuit. The text is generated from how the word sounds in one's head. I'm aware of the f vs v vs ph thing, and the complexity of it between languages and between the spoken verses written nature of language. And for most instances, I'd just idly note, hey-- My name is Stephen and leave it at that -- but this is not the first time with I've run into it with this person, and neither is it the first time I've responded to him and politely corrected him. That, and I have seen absolutely no reason to think this person speaks anything but standard American English. He has, for example, gone so far as to create a rant which declared quite vocally that everyone should adopt English, destroy Unicode and the usage of any other language, and that anyone who didn't follow through with this was ultimately hurting humanity. That any programmer which cow-towed towards this evil empire of Unicodeness was just embracing separatism and decisiveness. When this guy on more then one occasion chooses to articulate my name improperly, I take it as an underhanded act with no purpose but to belittle my point of view. So yes. The first time, its a natural mistake, and I hold no hard feelings. I regularly deal with people who misspell my name and mispronounce my name. A polite correction invariably solves the problem, and we are all happy. But if one then makes the mistake again-- and in an entirely different way (Stefan vs Steven) then they were politely corrected before-- its no longer an issue of linguistic confusion at that point. At that point, I have to assume he's doing it on purpose, and for the sole purpose of being disrespectful and disparaging. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right? WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot wisely use variables like... str=this is a string list = [1,2,3] def make_random_objs(range=10) def show_message(str) int = 12 Someone who wants to write readable and maintainable code would (practically) never want to use variables named in this way. Why? Because these names don't tell anything about the purpose of the variables. So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names. If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range, etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for Python 4000. Additionally to what I mention above, there is PEP 0008. Read it, you can learn from it. What you listed above, are functions, and their names comply completely with PEP 0008. Regards, Günther PS: Even though I suspect that you are simply an agitator rsp. troll (based on what you posted in this group so far), and normally I refuse to feed trolls, I make an exception in this case, so newcomers ar not mislead by your half-baked ideas. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 2:19 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: Nonsense. Prove it. Show actual benchmarks and actual problems to that style. I can't believe i actually have to prove to you that creating a tuple and then testing for bool-inity takes more time than just the bool test, but here goes *another* Sunday school lesson... s1 = if (a, b) != (None, None):\npass t1 = timeit.Timer(s1, 'a=1;b=1') min(t1.repeat()) 0.2395023215603 s2 = if a is not None and b is not None:\npass t2 = timeit.Timer(s2, 'a=1;b=1') min(t2.repeat()) 0.1433415595346 Tests that do, in essence, if whatever in (constant1, constant2) are exceedingly common. The burden is on you to prove they are bad. With real data. yea, been there done that. And yes, I do consider mangling my name to be an insult. obviously i sounded out your name in my head. It is getting pretty late here after all so give me break for crying out loud. 1 is something. Yes, but not necessarily a True something! 0 is nothing. Yes, but not necessarily a False nothing! What is a True something and what is a False nothing Stephen? Put that one up where it belongs with the chicken and the egg where it belongs -- next to the toilet with Hustler and Time. My statement is neither FUD, nor even an ad hominem attack. If you dispute my dismissal, show evidence. Any will do. Oh, I do admit that in the end, I did venture into the ad hominem area where I called into question your attitude and general behavior haha, i love how you denied the fact that you used ad hominem attacks and then directly after that tried to makes excuses for the very behavior you denied. Clinton made a career out this very same story telling. Nice work Bill Jr. *wink* Do you see the pattern? Every fundamental data type has a nothing state: and they ALL evaluate as false in conditionals. Why should integers be any different? Because, uh, you say so. No because i provide a very good reason --specifically in the case of a conditional bool-ing-- that integers bool-ing to True/False can be disastrous. And not only did i provide one reason, i provided two. The second being that 1/0 as compared to True/False is misleading in it's intention. Which renders code less readable, and supports bad programming styles. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 2:39 am, Paul Rubin no.em...@nospam.invalid wrote: rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com writes: unspeakably ugly code. I'd write the code differently to not do all those branches. I like to use 1-elemnt lists as an option type, instead of using None, so you can just concatenate them together to get the first non-empty one. Untested code: snip code Hmm, thanks for offering a solution but since functions call's induce so much overhead and you use the len function in each condition i believe the code would run much slower. How much slower, i don't know? Maybe i'll run the test later. I need to come up with some good test cases. Of course i'll want to maximize my side of the argument by producing the most efficient code that really makes your look slow. ;-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On Jul 11, 3:03 am, Günther Dietrich gd.use...@spamfence.net wrote: So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names. int for an Integer is stupid? list for a List is stupid? str for a String is stupid? What am i missing? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: 'reload M' doesn't update 'from M inport *'
from m import f look for module m in the global cache if not there, then: search for m.py compile it to a Module object put the Module object in the cache look for object named f in the Module object agree create a new name f in the local namespace set the name f to cached object strongly agree The important thing to notice is the the name f is a local variable. It doesn't, and can't, remember that it comes from module m. Reloading m can't do anything to f, because the connection is lost. disagree with 2nd stmt. local 'f' does *remember* (if that's the right word) where it comes from, because it points to the original obj, as you said: 'set the name f to cached object' py0.py == def f(): ... from py0 import * assert f.__module__ == sys.modules['py0'].__name__ assert f.__globals__ is sys.modules['py0'].__dict__ Now consider that the object f that came from m was itself imported from another module, service. Reloading service doesn't help, because m.f doesn't know it came from service. Reloading m doesn't help, because all that does is run from service import f again, and that just fetches f from the global cache. disagree with 2nd stmt, partially disagree with 3rd stmt reloading 'service' partially helps, since it updates the mod obj pointed by 'service' in global cache. it needs to be followed by reloading m, then we have m.f points to the new obj. the important part is the order of reloading mods l.py def f(): ... m.py from l import * from m import * at this point, the func obj is referenced by 3 distinct variables with name 'm'(one in each mod) assert sys.getrefcount(f) == 4 referrers = gc.get_referrers(f) mod_dicts = [sys.modules[k].__dict__ for k in sys.modules if k == 'l' or k == 'm' or k == __name__] for d in mod_dicts: ... referrers.remove(d) assert len(referrers) == 0 imp.reload(sys.modules['l']) now the original func obj is ref'ed by 2 vars, the new func obj is ref'ed by 1 var imp.reload(sys.modules['m']) f = sys.modules['m'].f now the original func obj is ready to be recollected, the new func obj is ref'ed by 3 vars The simplest, easiest way of dealing with this is not to have to deal with it: don't use from service import f, and ESPECIALLY don't use from service import *. Always use fully-qualified importing: import service service.f strongly agree The other way is not to bother with reload. It's not very powerful, only good for the simplest use in the interactive interpreter. Just exit the interpreter and restart it. set, del, reload are useful when it comes to structure manipulation at runtime, most langs differentiate it, labeling as metaprogramming, py smashes the diff in an elegant way (oh flattery, i love it) ;) as their names say, set del only bind unbind obj to var, the obj to bind must be in its bytecode form, in theory one could do it, maybe thru modules that are categorized as Python Language Services in the lib manual, but it's not practical (e.g. see the last stmt of types.CodeType.__doc__). this is where 'reload' steps in, and so the story goes ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On 07/11/2010 10:30 AM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 3:03 am, Günther Dietrich gd.use...@spamfence.net wrote: So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names. int for an Integer is stupid? list for a List is stupid? str for a String is stupid? What am i missing? You are missing (from PEP 8): --- 8 --- 8 --- Class Names Almost without exception, class names use the CapWords convention. Classes for internal use have a leading underscore in addition. --- 8 --- 8 --- You may want to think of list, int, str, object, ... as classes that don't follow this advice with their class name. But besides that, shouldn't a variable name reflect it's purpose instead of it's type? E.g. name = 'rantingrick' counter = 1 ... as compared to str = 'rantingrick' int = 1? Regards Andre -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Load/Performance Testing of a Web Server
On Jul 9, 4:44 pm, Simon Brunning si...@brunningonline.net wrote: On 9 July 2010 14:17, kak...@gmail.com kak...@gmail.com wrote: Hi to all, i want to stress test a tomcat web server, so that i could find out its limits. e.g how many users can be connected and request a resource concurrently. I used JMeter which is an excellent tool, but i would like to use a more pythonic approach. The Grinder? -- Cheers, Simon B. Thank you Simon! I'll give it a try. It looks very promising. Antonis K. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote in message news:1b285203-33f6-41fb-8321-381c154bc...@w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com... Let me tell you folks about a recent case of culo rojo i experianced whilst creating a customized bin packer with Python. First i want to say that i actually like the fact that i can do this.. py a = [] py if a: ... do something Instead of this py if len(a) 0: ... do something Or perhaps: if len(a): ... Ok but the buck stops with integers. Why? you ask in amazing befuddlement...Well I happened upon this atrocity when creating variables that hold indexes into a python list. choiceIdx1 = None choiceIdx2 = None if array[0] meets condition this condition: choiceIdx1 = 0 for i in range(len(array)): if array[i] meets this condition: choiceIdx2 = i break if choiceIdx1 and not choiceIdx2: BUT THAT WONT WORK BECAUSE OF CRAPPY INTEGER BOOLEAN DEFAULTS! So i had to do this crap...! You can also blame the 0-based indexing in Python. I'm not sure what would be the more fundamental change: changing over to 1-based indexing, or for 0 to be True (probably the opposite meaning to every other language). array = [c1,c2,c3,c4,c5,c6,...] while looping: choiceIdx1 = () choiceIdx2 = () if array[0] meets condition this condition: choiceIdx1 = (0,) for i in range(len(array)): if array[i] meets this condition: choiceIdx2 = (i,) break if choiceIdx1 and not choiceIdx2: Seems kinda dumb to build a tuple just so a conditional wont blow chunks! This integer bool-ing need to be fixed right away! So, you're simply trying to signal whether a value is in the range 0 or more, or not? That doesn't sound difficult: start with -1, then test whether it's =0. But you're trying a boolean test where you expect None=False, and 0,1,2, etc = True. While this would save typing in the condition, you're introducing extraneous stuff elsewhere which makes it harder to read, such as (i,) just to store an index. -- Bartc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:26:36 -0700 (PDT) rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Achtually, these are type names with their own constructor. The name of the type of True and False is bool and, bool() returns a bool-object. regards, Marek -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Plot problem.. ?? No sign at all
2010-07-11 02:12, Ritchy lelis skrev: On 7 jul, 08:38, Johan Grönqvistjohan.gronqv...@gmail.com wrote: About the plot draw it's a curve that it's a set of points wich it's the result of the comput of the Vref and Vi together. I don't know if i had to make a break instruction (like in other's languages) after the If instructions if i want the else-condition to be executed? ... (do you have some sujestions?) I would have expected a code structure similar to this: (NOTE: This is a very inefficient solution, and not the one suggested earlier, but it is closer to the code snippet you posted originally, and it does produce a plot.) -- import numpy as np import matplotlib.pyplot as plt Vref = np.linspace(1,20, 100) Vi = np.linspace(1,10,100) for ref in Vref: # Loop over Vref and Vi for i in Vi: if i ref/4: # Compute V0 V0 = 2*i-ref elif (-ref/4) = ref and ref = ref/4: V0 = 2*i elif i -ref/4: V0 = 2*i+ref plt.plot(i, V0, .) # Plot one single point at x = i, y = V0 plt.show() # Display the plot in a window -- Anyway i have a picture of a tuturial that i found but in this forum i can't post it. That pic would show what a really want... Can you give a link? Relatively to the axis, the Vi takes the x-axis and the Vref takes the y-axis. To me this sound like you want to make a 3D-plot, as there is the x-axis, the y-axis, and V0. Is this correct? Is V0 on a z-axis? As i said, i have a good 2 pic of a doc that has the information about this ADC that i'm developing. I looked on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter, and saw some figures. Is any of those similar to what you look for? I see that they have (Vi - Vref) on the x-axis, and the computed value on the y-axis. Regards Johan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
getting the variable type
hi.
i need to know the type of variable i'm dealing with.
take this list:
files = [
lib/jquery/jquery-1.4.2.source.js,
lib/jquery-ui-1.8.1/development-bundle/ui/jquery-ui-1.8.1.custom.js,
lib/jquery-ui-1.8.1/development-bundle/ui/jquery.ui.tabs.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.scrollTo-min.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.corner.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.mousewheel.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.em.js,
lib/jquery/jScrollPane.js,
lib_rv/logAndHandler-1.1.0/lah.source.js,
lib_rv/visCanvasLoaderIcon-1.1.0/visCanvasLoaderIcon.source.js,
self.getJavascript_getbootJSPHP,
js/mbCore_boot.js,
content/mediaBeez_custom.js
]
# output a list of the files.
html = '';
for i in range(len(files)):
file = files[i]
f = open (file, 'r')
html += f.read()
page = {
'html' : html
}
the third-last item in the list is not a string, it's a function.
how do i test for that?
--
-
Greetings from Rene7705,
My free open source webcomponents:
http://code.google.com/u/rene7705/
http://mediabeez.ws/downloads (and demos)
My music (i'm DJ firesnake)
http://mediabeez.ws/music
http://www.facebook.com/rene7705
-
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
how to determine whether pathname1 is below bathname2
Hi,
I wanted to figure out whether a given path name is below another path name.
Surprisingly this turned out to be more difficult than initially
anticipated:
Let's assume I want to find out, whether path1 is below path2
First I thought about checking whether
path1 starts with path2
For this I had to
- convert path1 / path2 to absolute paths
- I had to normalize the path name
Further this would still fail for
path1='/tmp/dir11' and path2='/tmp/dir1'
next option would be to split both absolute and normalized
paths by os.sep and check whether the path2's split list
starts with path1's split list.
That should work but is also not really nice.
finally I came up with:
#
import os
def is_below_dir(fname,topdir):
relpath = os.path.relpath(fname,topdir)
return not relpath.startswith('..'+os.sep)
print is_below_dir(path1,path2)
#
The basic idea is, if the path name of path1
relative to path2 does NOT start with '..', then
it must be below path2
Does anybody see pitfalls with that solution?
Is there by any chance a function, that I overlooked,
which does already what I'd like to do?
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: getting the variable type
On 11-7-2010 14:23, Rene Veerman wrote:
hi.
i need to know the type of variable i'm dealing with.
take this list:
files = [
lib/jquery/jquery-1.4.2.source.js,
lib/jquery-ui-1.8.1/development-bundle/ui/jquery-ui-1.8.1.custom.js,
lib/jquery-ui-1.8.1/development-bundle/ui/jquery.ui.tabs.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.scrollTo-min.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.corner.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.mousewheel.js,
lib/jquery/jquery.em.js,
lib/jquery/jScrollPane.js,
lib_rv/logAndHandler-1.1.0/lah.source.js,
lib_rv/visCanvasLoaderIcon-1.1.0/visCanvasLoaderIcon.source.js,
self.getJavascript_getbootJSPHP,
js/mbCore_boot.js,
content/mediaBeez_custom.js
]
# output a list of the files.
html = '';
for i in range(len(files)):
file = files[i]
You could write for file in files:
*BUT* using file will override the builtin name, better (say)
for fn in files:
f = open (file, 'r')
hence:- f = open (fn, 'r')
html += f.read()
page = {
'html' : html
}
the third-last item in the list is not a string, it's a function.
how do i test for that?
Check out the isinstance function here.
http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html
HTH.
Mark Lawrence
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
Andre Alexander Bell wrote: On 07/11/2010 10:30 AM, rantingrick wrote: So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names. int for an Integer is stupid? list for a List is stupid? str for a String is stupid? What am i missing? You are missing (from PEP 8): --- 8 --- 8 --- Class Names Almost without exception, class names use the CapWords convention. Classes for internal use have a leading underscore in addition. --- 8 --- 8 --- You may want to think of list, int, str, object, ... as classes that don't follow this advice with their class name. But besides that, shouldn't a variable name reflect it's purpose instead of it's type? E.g. hm, well sometimes I do write generic functions, that do something with a list or a string or an int. However a simple way around this is to use following naming style. to replace def process_list(list): dostuff_with(list) with def process_list(alist): dostuff_with(alist) or with def process_list(a_list): dostuff_with(a_list) I must admit, that I have still problems to not use the variables range or id -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to determine whether pathname1 is below bathname2
On 07/11/2010 03:37 PM, Gelonida wrote:
#
import os
def is_below_dir(fname,topdir):
relpath = os.path.relpath(fname,topdir)
return not relpath.startswith('..'+os.sep)
print is_below_dir(path1,path2)
#
The basic idea is, if the path name of path1
relative to path2 does NOT start with '..', then
it must be below path2
Does anybody see pitfalls with that solution?
Is there by any chance a function, that I overlooked,
which does already what I'd like to do?
It probably won't work on Windows because it isolates volumes (drive
letters). What does, for example, os.path.relpath do when
you pass r'c:\foo\bar', r'y:\drive\letters\are\silly' ? I see two
reasonably correct options:
either raise an exception (there is no relative path) or return the
absolute path, which doesn't start with ..
On UNIX, the only potential problem I see is that it may or may not do
what you expect when symlinks are involved somewhere.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
In article mailman.543.1278820792.1673.python-l...@python.org, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton luke.leigh...@gmail.com wrote: $ python grail.py (note the lack of python1.5 or python2.4) Congrats! -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail... --Siobhan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
In article c0b6380d-c7e5-48a2-9d6c-96eaa3456...@e5g2000yqn.googlegroups.com, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think it would be useful to many peoples. As usual, you would rather tell other people what to do instead of doing any work yourself. -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Normal is what cuts off your sixth finger and your tail... --Siobhan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:46:40 +0200 News123 news1...@free.fr wrote: Andre Alexander Bell wrote: On 07/11/2010 10:30 AM, rantingrick wrote: So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names. int for an Integer is stupid? list for a List is stupid? str for a String is stupid? What am i missing? [snip] hm, well sometimes I do write generic functions, that do something with a list or a string or an int. [snip] I must admit, that I have still problems to not use the variables range or id There are several approaches: - Use range_, id_, and so on. I think this is the proposed convention. Slightly ugly, though. - Use abbreviations, or misspellings like lst, Set, klass, ... Less ugly, but can get weird. - Prepend 'a' to a type name: alist, aset, astr. Similar weirdness potential as above, but more consistent in terms of style. I sometimes take this to the extreme and prepend 'some_'. So really, this is a non issue, at least for me. Having capitalized boolean values ... that is a bit odd, but as long as children are starving in Africa, this isn't very high on my gripe-list. /W -- INVALID? DE! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to determine whether pathname1 is below bathname2
Hi Thomas,
Thomas Jollans wrote:
On 07/11/2010 03:37 PM, Gelonida wrote:
#
import os
def is_below_dir(fname,topdir):
relpath = os.path.relpath(fname,topdir)
return not relpath.startswith('..'+os.sep)
print is_below_dir(path1,path2)
#
The basic idea is, if the path name of path1
relative to path2 does NOT start with '..', then
it must be below path2
Does anybody see pitfalls with that solution?
Is there by any chance a function, that I overlooked,
which does already what I'd like to do?
It probably won't work on Windows because it isolates volumes (drive
letters). What does, for example, os.path.relpath do when
you pass r'c:\foo\bar', r'y:\drive\letters\are\silly' ? I see two
reasonably correct options:
Thanks, Indeed. different drives raise an ecception.
I could catch the ValueError and let it just return False
either raise an exception (there is no relative path) or return the
absolute path, which doesn't start with ..
On UNIX, the only potential problem I see is that it may or may not do
what you expect when symlinks are involved somewhere.
Also true. In my case I'd prefer it would not follow, but
it doesn't really matter.
So my function in order to be portable
had now to look like:
#
import os
def is_below_dir(fname,topdir):
try:
relpath = os.path.relpath(fname,topdir)
except ValueError:
return False
return not relpath.startswith('..'+os.sep)
print is_below_dir(path1,path2)
#
if I wanted to folow symlinks, then had to apply
os.path.realpath() on
fname AND on topdir
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
Andreas Waldenburger wrote: Having capitalized boolean values ... that is a bit odd, but as long as children are starving in Africa, this isn't very high on my gripe-list. +1 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I wish for a tool named 2to6.
Folks: I have been (I admit it) a Python 3 skeptic. I even speculated that the Python 3 backward-incompatibility would lead to the obsolescence of Python: http://pubgrid.tahoe-lafs.org/uri/URI:DIR2-RO:ixqhc4kdbjxc7o65xjnveoewym:5x6lwoxghrd5rxhwunzavft2qygfkt27oj3fbxlq4c6p45z5uneq/blog.html However, things are really looking up now because it turns out that it is eminently practical to support both Python 2 and Python 3 with a single codebase. There have been some recent discussions about that on this list. A few references: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-July/1249312.html http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/arch_d7_2010_03_20.shtml#e1167 http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200910/running_the_same_code_on_python_2x_and_3x.html http://www.mail-archive.com/numpy-discuss...@scipy.org/msg26524.html Benjamin Peterson has even written a library intended to help programmers who want to do that: http://packages.python.org/six/ This note to the list is to express my wish for an automated tool named 2to6 which converts my Python 2.6 codebase to being both py2- and py2- compatible using Benjamin Peterson's six library. Regards, Zooko -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? I found this link (http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python- class/lists.html) which suggests that this is done to make sure that the programmer understands that the list is being modified in place, but that rules out constructs like: ([1,2,3,4].reverse()+[[]]).reverse() I want to prepend an empty list to [1,2,3,4]. This is just a toy example, since I can always do that with [[]]+[1,2,3,4]. Regards, -Dhruv. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On 07/11/2010 12:50 AM, rantingrick wrote: Ah yes, when nothing else seems to work fall back to you default programming... FUD and ad hominem attacks Please stop calling things what they are not. Stephen's post was not an ad hominem attack, nor was it FUD. Someone who is countering your premise and position (IE disagrees with you) is not automatically attacking your character or some characteristic of your person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Common_misconceptions_about_ad_hominem Kudos to Stephen for replying in such a reasonable and even logical fashion to your post. Would that you would reply to his posts in a similar fashion, rather than leveling silly false accusations of FUD and ad hominem attacks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Jul 11, 9:01 am, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: As usual, you would rather tell other people what to do instead of doing any work yourself. Dear God! My statement was intended to fetch responses like... Hey, that sounds like a great idea or \ Hey, lets get hacking on this. I am so sick of you people constantly accusing me of being lazy. You don't even know me. Also i think you're really a bit jealous because i have the brass cohones to initiate a coding project without your express written permission. I will not allow myself to be brow beaten by anyone! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
On 07/11/2010 05:59 PM, dhruvbird wrote: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? I found this link (http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python- class/lists.html) which suggests that this is done to make sure that the programmer understands that the list is being modified in place, Yes! but that rules out constructs like: ([1,2,3,4].reverse()+[[]]).reverse() No! you can either approach this by imperatively modifying a list in-place: L = [1,2,3,4] L.reverse() L.append([]) L.reverse() Or you can use a more functional style: L2 = reversed(reversed([1,2,3,4]) + [[]]) (or ([1,2,3,4][::-1]+[[]])[::-1], if you like that kind of thing) Imagine list.reverse and list.append *did* return self: L1 = [1,2,3,4] L2 = L1.reverse().append([]).reverse() would you expect, after this code, that (L1 == L2) and (L1 is L2)? I think it would surprise a lot of people. Better clearly separate modifying an object and functionally processing an object. Cheers Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
Do list(reversed(list(reversed([1, 2, 3, 4])) + [[]])) Though TBH sometimes get annoyed at this behavior myself. There are a lot of people who are very vocal in support of returning none, and it makes sense in some ways. Since reversed returns an iterator though, it makes this code horrible and unreadable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 10, 10:59 pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton luke.leigh...@gmail.com wrote: source at:http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser $ python grail.py (note the lack of python1.5 or python2.4) conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out. entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always a hoot to try browsinghttp://www.bbc.co.ukorhttp://www.youtube.com with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled]. l. Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think it would be useful to many peoples. Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does cross platform involve UNIX and something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of file system are similar enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. If you stick to common functionality, the program will be rather useless on both systems. Yes, you could *browse* the file system alright, but that's about it. If you attempt to be full-featured, keeping it in one code base, let alone in one user interface, is destined to be a nightmare and induce suicides. The above might have been very slightly exaggerated. Cheers! Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Plot problem.. ?? No sign at all
On 11 jul, 13:28, Johan Grönqvist johan.gronqv...@gmail.com wrote: 2010-07-11 02:12, Ritchy lelis skrev: On 7 jul, 08:38, Johan Grönqvistjohan.gronqv...@gmail.com wrote: About the plot draw it's a curve that it's a set of points wich it's the result of the comput of the Vref and Vi together. I don't know if i had to make a break instruction (like in other's languages) after the If instructions if i want the else-condition to be executed? ... (do you have some sujestions?) I would have expected a code structure similar to this: (NOTE: This is a very inefficient solution, and not the one suggested earlier, but it is closer to the code snippet you posted originally, and it does produce a plot.) -- import numpy as np import matplotlib.pyplot as plt Vref = np.linspace(1,20, 100) Vi = np.linspace(1,10,100) for ref in Vref: # Loop over Vref and Vi for i in Vi: if i ref/4: # Compute V0 V0 = 2*i-ref elif (-ref/4) = ref and ref = ref/4: V0 = 2*i elif i -ref/4: V0 = 2*i+ref plt.plot(i, V0, .) # Plot one single point at x = i, y = V0 plt.show() # Display the plot in a window -- Anyway i have a picture of a tuturial that i found but in this forum i can't post it. That pic would show what a really want... Can you give a link? Relatively to the axis, the Vi takes the x-axis and the Vref takes the y-axis. To me this sound like you want to make a 3D-plot, as there is the x-axis, the y-axis, and V0. Is this correct? Is V0 on a z-axis? As i said, i have a good 2 pic of a doc that has the information about this ADC that i'm developing. I looked on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter, and saw some figures. Is any of those similar to what you look for? I see that they have (Vi - Vref) on the x-axis, and the computed value on the y-axis. Regards Johan Hi Yes those fig look's familiar to me but for now the objective its to get that residue transfer function (1.5-Bit-Per-Stage Pipelined ADC). I found in http://amesp02.tamu.edu/~sanchez/ADC-pipeline_lecture.PDF there are some fig and explanations on page's 9-13. Can you take a look there please? Also you can take a look in http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/1023 (I think there it´s more information than the first link i gave you). I'll be waiting for sujestions. Thank's -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
On 07/11/2010 06:28 PM, Nathan Rice wrote: Do list(reversed(list(reversed([1, 2, 3, 4])) + [[]])) Though TBH sometimes get annoyed at this behavior myself. There are a lot of people who are very vocal in support of returning none, and it makes sense in some ways. Since reversed returns an iterator though, it makes this code horrible and unreadable. ah yes, forgot about that nuance. casting reversed to list. Still, there is slicing. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Possible to create a read-only complex object?
I have a complex object with attributes that contain lists, sets, dictionaries, and other objects. The lists and dictionaries may themselves contain complex objects. I would like to provide a read-only version of this type of object for other developers to query for reporting. Is there a way to prevent other developers from changing the attributes of my complex and nested object? In researching this question, I have identified __setattr__ and __delattr__ as possible ways to prevent changes to simple attributes, but I don't believe these magic methods will prevent others from fiddling with attributes containing lists and dictionaries or the contents of these lists and dictionaries. Another idea I had was to create a wrapper object to proxy all access to the original object. Is there a generic reciepe for this type of wrapper? Thank you, Malcolm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On 7/11/10 9:31 AM, Thomas Jollans wrote: Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does cross platform involve UNIX and something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of file system are similar enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. Indeed so. And you can't lump the Mac in with UNIX here, even though it really is UNIX at the foundation, because there's some very fundamental differences between HFS+ (and some other details that are higher level) and more traditional unix FS's. Not to mention that the Mac FS situation is slightly schitzo since it has two very different ways at looking and treating the files, the posix way and the Foundation way... and users think more in terms of the latter, usually. At least less sophisticated users. You can't do a cross-platform file manager without either doing a huge amount of work exposing each platform separately-- essentially getting separate codebases for each-- or doing a least common denominator situation, at which point I boggle: why the hell did you bother to begin with? Even Finder is better then that, let alone windows' Explorer. Even if you did the former... what the hell is the point, still? What real problem needs solving here that people should drop something and rally behind*? -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ (*): I do not argue that a non-default file manager on an OS might be a great thing. I use Path Finder on the mac and have been very pleased with it for years, and consider its purchase money very well spent. Its hands-down the absolute best file management tool ever done, in my opinion. But really. When I'm using windows (or ubuntu), the only thing I miss is the drop stack(**). I'd *almost* consider a bare-bones LCD file manager which brought only a drop stack to windows and linux to be worth the effort-- except then I'd keep having to switch over to an entirely different program whenever I wanted to do permissions, since Windows and Linux have /completely/ different permission models. (**): The drop stack is a little corner of the window that you can drag files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then you can navigate to another part of the system, and drag files off of said stack, in a LIFO manner, moving them as a result of this action. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT) dhruvbird dhruvb...@gmail.com wrote: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? I found this link (http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python- class/lists.html) which suggests that this is done to make sure that the programmer understands that the list is being modified in place, but that rules out constructs like: ([1,2,3,4].reverse()+[[]]).reverse() I want to prepend an empty list to [1,2,3,4]. This is just a toy example, since I can always do that with [[]]+[1,2,3,4]. x = [1,2,3,4] y = [5,6] x[:0] = y x [5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
rantingrick wrote: Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right? WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot wisely use variables like... str=this is a string list = [1,2,3] def make_random_objs(range=10) def show_message(str) int = 12 If we would have adopted proper naming conventions from dios numero uno all this nonsense would be rectified! Str, Float, List, Range, etc, etc. You think Python 3000 was a hump to climb over just wait for Python 4000. Just thoughts. If you're so unhappy with Python, why don't you create your own language. I suggest the name Rantthon. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
Thomas Jollans wrote: On 07/11/2010 05:59 PM, dhruvbird wrote: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? I found this link (http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python- class/lists.html) which suggests that this is done to make sure that the programmer understands that the list is being modified in place, Yes! but that rules out constructs like: ([1,2,3,4].reverse()+[[]]).reverse() No! you can either approach this by imperatively modifying a list in-place: L = [1,2,3,4] L.reverse() L.append([]) L.reverse() [snip] If you want to prepend an empty list in-place, use the .insert method: L = [1,2,3,4] L.insert(0, []) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Easy questions from a python beginner
I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) 3. Why might one want to store strings as objects in numpy arrays? (Maybe they wouldn't)? 4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly module-local? (Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?) 5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python? See for example: http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html 6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking) http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ Thanks, W -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On 07/11/2010 07:48 PM, wheres pythonmonks wrote:
I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. I have some
easy issues (Python 2.6)
which probably can be answered in two seconds:
1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.:
True and print It is true!
prior to Python 3.0, print is a statement, not an expression, which
means that it's rather unflexible.
In Python 3.x, print is a function, and you can use it as one:
Python 3.1.2 (release31-maint, Jul 8 2010, 09:18:08)
[GCC 4.4.4] on linux2
Type help, copyright, credits or license for more information.
True and print('It is true!')
It is true!
I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))...
Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better?
Either use good old if:
if True: print 'It is true!'
or use a function instead of the print statement:
def print_(s):
print s
True and print_(It is true!)
2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y
= 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3??
(I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ).
(And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this
behavior limited to strings,
tuples, and numbers)
You can't. A function cannot modify the caller's namespace. x and y
are just names, not pointers you can edit directly.
But look at this:
x = 1
y = 2
x,y = y,x
x
2
y
1
4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly
module-local?
(Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?)
Do you mean have the function visible inside the module, but not to the
importer?
Well, you could del thefunc at the end of the module, but then you
won't be able to access it from within other functions. You could in
principle create a function, pass it as a default argument to every
function that uses it, and then delete it. But that's just silly.
5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python?
See for example: http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html
No.
exception: nested functions.
if you really want, you can always del variables after use.
6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is
bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking)
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
Huh?
- Thomas
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
On Jul 11, 9:19 pm, Thomas Jollans tho...@jollans.com wrote: On 07/11/2010 05:59 PM, dhruvbird wrote: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? I found this link (http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python- class/lists.html) which suggests that this is done to make sure that the programmer understands that the list is being modified in place, Yes! but that rules out constructs like: ([1,2,3,4].reverse()+[[]]).reverse() No! you can either approach this by imperatively modifying a list in-place: L = [1,2,3,4] L.reverse() L.append([]) L.reverse() Or you can use a more functional style: L2 = reversed(reversed([1,2,3,4]) + [[]]) Okay, but this assumes that I have reversed/sorted/etc... type of functions for all member functions that mutate the container. Also, as Nathan mentioned, reversed returns an iterator, whereas sorted returns a list. This asymmertic behaviour is a bit unnerving. (or ([1,2,3,4][::-1]+[[]])[::-1], if you like that kind of thing) Imagine list.reverse and list.append *did* return self: L1 = [1,2,3,4] L2 = L1.reverse().append([]).reverse() would you expect, after this code, that (L1 == L2) and (L1 is L2)? I think it would surprise a lot of people. Better clearly separate modifying an object and functionally processing an object. I think this is a fair call. Honestly, I wouldn't expect them to be the same. However, there are cases when I want to be able to write down my intent in one line. Much like f(g(h(x))). On a side note, is there any other way to append to a list using slices (apart from the one below): x[len(x):len(x)] = [item to append] And while we are talking about python here, why does this statement: y = x[:0] = [100] behave the way it does? I mean everything except for the last value is assigned to the last value rather than the assignments following the chain and every item getting its succeeding item's reference? Regards, -Dhruv. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On 07/11/2010 11:48 AM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! This works in Python 3, or 2.6 and later with the print function: True and print(It's true!) That said, this is one particular perl-ism that most python programmers don't really like. I think most python programmers prefer: if True: print It's true! Other perlisms like something or die are also to be avoided in python generally. Just state what you want: if not something: sys.exit(1) I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? Seems ugly even to Python programmers! And potentially dangerous. Just use an if statement. It's cleaner, more readable, and explicitly declares what you want. 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) I'm not sure you can. Python variables are names that are bound to objects. When you pass an object to a function, that object is bound to the names declared in the function. Python passes things by object, not by reference. Names are merely for convenience when accessing an object. If you want a function to be able to modify an object you have to make sure that object is mutable, or if it's not, pass it in a list (which is mutable). You probably could do something like this: (x,y) = (y,x) Seems pretty clean to me, cleaner than using a function to swap things. 3. Why might one want to store strings as objects in numpy arrays? (Maybe they wouldn't)? 4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly module-local? The standard way is to declare them with a name beginning with a leading _ (underscore) to indicate that they are private and should not be accessed by others. Someone could access them if they want, though; python obviously lets programmers shoot themselves in the foot if they want. (Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?) Not that I know of. A nested function usually does enough for me. 5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python? See for example: http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html Perhaps nest a function and call it? 6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking) http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? In Python 2.x print is a statement. If you really wanted you could do: True and sys.write(It is true!\n) In Python 3 you can do this: True and print(It is true!) though I can't think of any situations where this would be better that just writing: if somecondition: print whatever 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? Why use a function? x, y = y, x (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) If you want to use perl's operators I suggest you use perl. 3. Why might one want to store strings as objects in numpy arrays? (Maybe they wouldn't)? Why would one want to write incomprehensible questions? 4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly module-local? (Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?) Not really. 5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python? See for example: http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html No. The page you reference effectively says 'my brain is used to the way Java works'. *My* brain is used to the way Python works. Who is to say which is better? 6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking) http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ pylint will do quite a good job of picking over your code. Most people don't bother. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 6:38 am, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Seems kinda dumb to build a tuple just so a conditional wont blow chunks! This integer bool-ing need to be fixed right away! Okay. What fix do you propose? Would your fix maintain the identity 0 == False? For bonus points, explain how you'd deal with any backwards compatibility problems that your fix introduces. Have you considered forking Python? That may be the way forward here. -- Mark -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On 7/11/10 10:48 AM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! Because print is a statement. Statements have to start lines. If you want to do this, use a function-- in Python 2.6 either via from __future__ import print_function or writing your own, even if its just a very thing wrapper around the print statement. 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) You can't do that*. Its not limited to any certain type of objects. You can't manipulate calling scopes: if you really want to do that sort of explicit namespace mangling, use dictionaries (or objects, really) as the namespace to mangle and pass them around. 3. Why might one want to store strings as objects in numpy arrays? (Maybe they wouldn't)? I don't use numpy. No idea. 4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly module-local? In what sense? If you prepend them with an underscore, the function won't be imported with from x import *. You can also explicitly control what is imported in that way with a module-level __all__ attribute. Now that won't stop someone from doing import x and x._your_private_function but Python doesn't believe in enforicng restrictions. (Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?) No. You can create a limited anonymous function with lambda, but note it takes only an expression-- no statements in it. 5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python? See for example: http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html No. Python only has three scopes historically; local, global, and builtin. Then post-2.2(ish, I forget) limited nested scoping -- but only with nested functions, and you can't (until Python 3) re-bind variables in outer scopes (though you can modify them if they are mutable objects). Python's scoping is very basic (we generally think this is a good thing; others are never happy with it) and is not fully lexical scoped. 6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking) http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ Check out pylint and/or pychecker, which do various style-based checking. If you're asking for something else, I can't pierce your sarcasm to figure out what. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ * Yes, I know its actually possible, to manipulate outer/calling scopes with frame hacking. This is dangerous / bad / an implementation detail that one should not rely on or use, generally speaking. If you need to do this you're writing Java or Perl or C in Python, instead of writing Python in Python, so are probably doing all kinds of things that are slow / bad / dangerous / just not taking advantage of Python's strengths. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
Thanks for your answers -- it is much appreciated. On #1: I had very often used chained logic with both logging and functional purposes in Perl, and wanted to duplicate this in Python. It reads like english Using the print_ print wrapper works for me. Follow-up: Is there a way to define compile-time constants in python and have the bytecode compiler optimize away expressions like: if is_my_extra_debugging_on: print ... when is_my_extra_debugging is set to false? I'd like to pay no run-time penalty for such code when extra_debugging is disabled. On #2: My point regarding the impossibility of writing the swap function for ints is to explicitly understand that this isn't possible, so as not to look for solutions along those lines when trying to write python code. On #3: Sorry this is confusing, but I was browsing some struct array code from numpy, in which one of the columns contained strings, but the type information, supplied in numpy.array's dtype argument, specified the type as a an object not a string. Just wondering why one would do that. On #4: So there are some hacks, but not something as easy as import unimportable or an @noexport decorator. The underscore works, so does del. On #5: Nesting the function was actually what I was thinking of doing, but alas, I cannot modify outer-scope variables within a function, and of course, I don't want to use globals. On #6: Always trying to improve my writing -- and I thought it was cute that Guido tries to encourage this as well. I am programmer who likes to scope off variables as much as possible (I believe in minimal state). The following is an example of what I am trying to protect against: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/938429/scope-of-python-lambda-functions-and-their-parameters Will try to avoid namespace mangling until next week. Thanks again, W On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Duncan Booth duncan.bo...@invalid.invalid wrote: wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? In Python 2.x print is a statement. If you really wanted you could do: True and sys.write(It is true!\n) In Python 3 you can do this: True and print(It is true!) though I can't think of any situations where this would be better that just writing: if somecondition: print whatever 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? Why use a function? x, y = y, x (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) If you want to use perl's operators I suggest you use perl. 3. Why might one want to store strings as objects in numpy arrays? (Maybe they wouldn't)? Why would one want to write incomprehensible questions? 4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly module-local? (Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?) Not really. 5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python? See for example: http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html No. The page you reference effectively says 'my brain is used to the way Java works'. *My* brain is used to the way Python works. Who is to say which is better? 6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking) http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ pylint will do quite a good job of picking over your code. Most people don't bother. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On 7/11/10 11:45 AM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: Follow-up: Is there a way to define compile-time constants in python and have the bytecode compiler optimize away expressions like: if is_my_extra_debugging_on: print ... when is_my_extra_debugging is set to false? I'd like to pay no run-time penalty for such code when extra_debugging is disabled. Any code wrapped in a __debug__ guard is utterly ommitted if you run Python with the -O option. That, and asserts go away. On #2: My point regarding the impossibility of writing the swap function for ints is to explicitly understand that this isn't possible, so as not to look for solutions along those lines when trying to write python code. Its impossible because Python's calling and namespace semantics simply don't work like that. There's no references in the traditional sense, because there's no variables-- boxes that you put values in. There's just concrete objects. Objects are passed into the function and given new names; that those objects have names in the enclosing scope is something you don't know, can't access, and can't manipulate.. even the objects don't know what names they happen to be called. Check out http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm On #3: Sorry this is confusing, but I was browsing some struct array code from numpy, in which one of the columns contained strings, but the type information, supplied in numpy.array's dtype argument, specified the type as a an object not a string. Just wondering why one would do that. Strings are objects. I don't use numpy, btu I'd assume object would basically mean, anything can go here, as everything is an object. On #5: Nesting the function was actually what I was thinking of doing, but alas, I cannot modify outer-scope variables within a function, and of course, I don't want to use globals. You can modify outer-scope objects: if they are mutable. I.e., a dictionary. What you can't do is modify outer *scopes*, the namespaces. You can't re-bind a new/different object to a certain name in an outer scope. I am programmer who likes to scope off variables as much as possible (I believe in minimal state). That's a fine and nice goal. In Python your only real tool for this is to break things up into more logical functions. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On 07/11/2010 08:45 PM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: Thanks for your answers -- it is much appreciated. On #1: I had very often used chained logic with both logging and functional purposes in Perl, and wanted to duplicate this in Python. It reads like english Using the print_ print wrapper works for me. Follow-up: Is there a way to define compile-time constants in python and have the bytecode compiler optimize away expressions like: if is_my_extra_debugging_on: print ... when is_my_extra_debugging is set to false? I'd like to pay no run-time penalty for such code when extra_debugging is disabled. no. On #3: Sorry this is confusing, but I was browsing some struct array code from numpy, in which one of the columns contained strings, but the type information, supplied in numpy.array's dtype argument, specified the type as a an object not a string. Just wondering why one would do that. No expert on numpy, but maybe storing object references is cheaper than storing strings here ? On #5: Nesting the function was actually what I was thinking of doing, but alas, I cannot modify outer-scope variables within a function, and of course, I don't want to use globals. yes you can. Well, at least since whenever the nonlocal keyword was introduced (recent, might be 3.x only) Or you can wrap what you want to change in a dict or list. I am programmer who likes to scope off variables as much as possible (I believe in minimal state). The following is an example of what I am trying to protect against: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/938429/scope-of-python-lambda-functions-and-their-parameters On the other hand, python scoping and namespace rules, while they may be different to those in other languages, are nice and simple. Will try to avoid namespace mangling until next week. Cheers - Thomas -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
* Stephen Hansen, on 11.07.2010 21:00: On 7/11/10 11:45 AM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: Follow-up: Is there a way to define compile-time constants in python and have the bytecode compiler optimize away expressions like: if is_my_extra_debugging_on: print ... when is_my_extra_debugging is set to false? I'd like to pay no run-time penalty for such code when extra_debugging is disabled. Any code wrapped in a __debug__ guard is utterly ommitted if you run Python with the -O option. That, and asserts go away. On #2: My point regarding the impossibility of writing the swap function for ints is to explicitly understand that this isn't possible, so as not to look for solutions along those lines when trying to write python code. Its impossible because Python's calling and namespace semantics simply don't work like that. There's no references in the traditional sense, because there's no variables-- boxes that you put values in. There's just concrete objects. Objects are passed into the function and given new names; that those objects have names in the enclosing scope is something you don't know, can't access, and can't manipulate.. even the objects don't know what names they happen to be called. Check out http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm Oh, I wouldn't give that advice. It's meaningless mumbo-jumbo. Python works like Java in this respect, that's all; neither Java nor Python support 'swap'. Of course there are variables, that's why the docs call them variables. We've had this discussion before and I know from that that it is a religious issue with a small subset of the Python community, where reason, facts, logic does not apply and is not even recognized as such. So be it. So I'm not out to convince you or other of that sub-community, or trying to reason with you folks on this issue (futile, and generates flames pretty fast), but I do not want newbies brainwashed into that non-reasoning nonsense pure faith religion. For what it's worth, I'm sure that the effbot.org author, whose pages are otherwise quite technically meaningful useful, in this case, after the flame war with some Java folks, decided that technical accuracy just wasn't worth it. So, I believe, he punted, which is an eminently rational choice when one's goals require acceptance in a society dominated by a religious clique. And just as I'm not out to engage you in any debate on this issue (futile), neither am I calling you irrational. Perhaps your choice is the same as that author's. Cheers, - Alf -- blog at url: http://alfps.wordpress.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Getting started with python on macintosh snow leopard with mysql - need help
I have been going round and round trying to configure python 2.6 running on osx 10.6.x to work with mySQL 5.1.44. Python seems to work ... i have an installation of mysql 5.1.44 running and have used it in conjunction for other php/apache projects. I want to learn python and think i need a better database then mysql lite that installs with the web2py frame work, so my quest to connect to mysql or postgres began. I seem to be stuck stuck getting mySQLdb drivers installed. I down loaded python 2.6.5 from the python site and MySQL-python-1.2.3 from the my sql site. I have worked past numerous errors by i now get the errors below when i try to compile. -- some background that might help anyone kind enough to have read this far and who might be inclined to take pitty -- I have (tried) to use macports to install setuptools (which MySQL- python-1.2.3 says it needs). MacPorts has put tons of stuff in /opt/local ... so i am not sure i am using this tool the way its intended. this could all be as simple as adding some path declarations in the right place but where? lots of the post i have seen on the subject talk about 32/64 installation ... it makes sense that you might need to be consistent in getting your components to work together, but i am not sure how i tell of the various parts i have install which and how they were compiled. whereis python display /usr/bin/python python -v spits out lots ... but here is a sample: # /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/ encodings/utf_8.pyc matches /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/ Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/encodings/utf_8.py import encodings.utf_8 # precompiled from /Library/Frameworks/ Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/encodings/utf_8.pyc Python 2.6.5 (r265:79359, Mar 24 2010, 01:32:55) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin when i try to compile mysql-python-1.2.3 i get the following error returned from python setup.py build - building '_mysql' extension gcc-4.0 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Dversion_info=(1,2,3,'final',0) - D__version__=1.2.3 -I/usr/local/mysql/include -I/Library/Frameworks/ Python.framework/Versions/2.6/include/python2.6 -c _mysql.c -o build/ temp.macosx-10.3-fat-2.6/_mysql.o -g -Os -arch x86_64 -fno-common - D_P1003_1B_VISIBLE -DSIGNAL_WITH_VIO_CLOSE -DSIGNALS_DONT_BREAK_READ - DIGNORE_SIGHUP_SIGQUIT -DDONT_DECLARE_CXA_PURE_VIRTUAL In file included from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 2.6/include/python2.6/unicodeobject.h:4, from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 2.6/include/python2.6/Python.h:85, from pymemcompat.h:10, from _mysql.c:29: /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/usr/include/stdarg.h:4:25: error: stdarg.h: No such file or directory In file included from _mysql.c:36: /usr/local/mysql/include/my_config.h:1053:1: warning: HAVE_WCSCOLL redefined In file included from /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/ 2.6/include/python2.6/Python.h:8, from pymemcompat.h:10, from _mysql.c:29: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/include/python2.6/ pyconfig.h:808:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition error: command 'gcc-4.0' failed with exit status 1 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
Thomas Jollans tho...@jollans.com writes: On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 10, 10:59 pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton luke.leigh...@gmail.com wrote: source at:http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser $ python grail.py (note the lack of python1.5 or python2.4) conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out. entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always a hoot to try browsinghttp://www.bbc.co.ukorhttp://www.youtube.com with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled]. l. Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think it would be useful to many peoples. Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does cross platform involve UNIX and something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of file system are similar enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. Can't think of why not. Of course not all operations are shared by each OS, but /I/ know that I can't do chmod on Windows. But it doesn't mean that on Windows I can't make a file only readable by me. Just give me the Windows security options on Windows, and chmod on *nix and I would be very happy. Especially if all can be done via a context menu a la RISC OS. -- John Bokma j3b Hacking Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/ http://castleamber.com/ - Perl Python Development -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On Jul 11, 10:48 am, wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. Welcome to the light. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? I'll repeat other people's sentiments: if you drop nothing else from your perl habits, drop this one. 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) Can't do it, but you can get reference-like behavior if you don't mind a level of indirection. For example: def swap(x,y): t = y[0] y[0] = x[0] x[0] = t a = [1] b = [2] swap(a,b) There's no reason to do this for a swap() function, as you've already seen. But it is sometimes handy for other things. (This includes certain idioms involving regualar expression that are common in Perl. Perl uses some special semantics when performing regexp searches that allow automatic binding of match results. Python doesn't, so in some cases it's helpful to define an object you can mutate to store that information.) In the more general sense, Python functions and methods that mutate the object they operate on are pretty common. 3. Why might one want to store strings as objects in numpy arrays? (Maybe they wouldn't)? numpy is a library designed mainly to store numerical data, with some advanced slicing operations and other cool stuff like multdimensionality. Some people, however, want to use the cool slicing operations on arrays of Python objects, so numpy has a storage mode for arbitrary Python objects. (If you're wondering why they use object instead of a character type, it's because rows of such an array are fixed-length strings. Main reason to use those is to interface with Fortran string arrays, or maybe to simulate crossword puzzles or something.) 4. Is there a way for me to make some function-definitions explicitly module-local? (Actually related to Q3 below: Is there a way to create an anonymous scope?) No. The (loose) convention is to define local or private functions with a leading underscore to label them as intended for internal use only. 5. Is there a way for me to introduce a indention-scoped variables in python? See for example:http://evanjones.ca/python-pitfall-scope.html Yes, define a nested function. In Python 2 it's limited since you cannot rebind variables in the surrounding scope; that's possible in Python 3, though. 6. Is there a Python Checker that enforces Strunk and White and is bad English grammar anti-python? (Only half joking)http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ There's a few, PyChecker and PyLint get mentioned a lot. I used to use them until I noticed that it never actually caught anything (except stuff I didn't care about like using id as a variable name). Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On Jul 11, 11:45 am, wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: On #4: So there are some hacks, but not something as easy as import unimportable or an @noexport decorator. The underscore works, so does del. Careful. If you have a module that looks like this: def foo(): bar() def bar(): print hello del bar # bar is an internal function It won't work; foo will raise NameError on bar if you try that. However, del is useful to clean up code you run at module import time, for example: squares = [] for i in xrange(101): squares.append(i*i) del i Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 11, 10:48 am, wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. Welcome to the light. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? I'll repeat other people's sentiments: if you drop nothing else from your perl habits, drop this one. 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) Can't do it, but you can get reference-like behavior if you don't mind a level of indirection. For example: def swap(x,y): t = y[0] y[0] = x[0] x[0] = t a = [1] b = [2] swap(a,b) or def swap[x,y]: x[0],y[0] = y[0],x[0] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:08 PM, News123 news1...@free.fr wrote: Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 11, 10:48 am, wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. Welcome to the light. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? I'll repeat other people's sentiments: if you drop nothing else from your perl habits, drop this one. 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) Can't do it, but you can get reference-like behavior if you don't mind a level of indirection. For example: def swap(x,y): t = y[0] y[0] = x[0] x[0] = t a = [1] b = [2] swap(a,b) or def swap[x,y]: x[0],y[0] = y[0],x[0] def swap[x,y]: File stdin, line 1 def swap[x,y]: ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Cheers, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
Chris Rebert wrote: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:08 PM, News123 news1...@free.fr wrote: Carl Banks wrote: On Jul 11, 10:48 am, wheres pythonmonks wherespythonmo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm an old Perl-hacker, and am trying to Dive in Python. Welcome to the light. I have some easy issues (Python 2.6) which probably can be answered in two seconds: 1. Why is it that I cannot use print in booleans?? e.g.: True and print It is true! I found a nice work-around using eval(compile(.,string,exec))... Seems ugly to this Perl Programmer -- certainly Python has something better? I'll repeat other people's sentiments: if you drop nothing else from your perl habits, drop this one. 2. How can I write a function, def swap(x,y):... so that x = 3; y = 7; swap(x,y); given x=7,y=3?? (I want to use Perl's Ref \ operator, or C's ). (And if I cannot do this [other than creating an Int class], is this behavior limited to strings, tuples, and numbers) Can't do it, but you can get reference-like behavior if you don't mind a level of indirection. For example: def swap(x,y): t = y[0] y[0] = x[0] x[0] = t a = [1] b = [2] swap(a,b) or def swap[x,y]: x[0],y[0] = y[0],x[0] def swap[x,y]: File stdin, line 1 def swap[x,y]: apologies: I meant def swap(x,y): x[0],y[0] = y[0],x[0] a = [1] b = [2] swap(a,b) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Possible to create a read-only complex object?
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 9:51 AM, pyt...@bdurham.com wrote: I have a complex object with attributes that contain lists, sets, dictionaries, and other objects. The lists and dictionaries may themselves contain complex objects. I would like to provide a read-only version of this type of object for other developers to query for reporting. Is there a way to prevent other developers from changing the attributes of my complex and nested object? Have you considered just making a deep copy of your object instead? That way, others could inspect the copy and mess with it all they want, without affecting the original. http://docs.python.org/library/copy.html#copy.deepcopy Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: how to determine whether pathname1 is below bathname2
You could probably:
cd to dir1
getcwd
cd to dir2
getcwd
repeat
cd ..
getcwd
if getcwd == dir1's cwd, then under
until at /
cd to dir1
repeat
cd ..
getcwd
if getcwd == dir2's cwd, then under
until at /
This should deal with symlinks and junctions, as long as you aren't worried
about permissions issues on directories.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Gelonida gelon...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Thomas,
Thomas Jollans wrote:
On 07/11/2010 03:37 PM, Gelonida wrote:
#
import os
def is_below_dir(fname,topdir):
relpath = os.path.relpath(fname,topdir)
return not relpath.startswith('..'+os.sep)
print is_below_dir(path1,path2)
#
The basic idea is, if the path name of path1
relative to path2 does NOT start with '..', then
it must be below path2
Does anybody see pitfalls with that solution?
Is there by any chance a function, that I overlooked,
which does already what I'd like to do?
It probably won't work on Windows because it isolates volumes (drive
letters). What does, for example, os.path.relpath do when
you pass r'c:\foo\bar', r'y:\drive\letters\are\silly' ? I see two
reasonably correct options:
Thanks, Indeed. different drives raise an ecception.
I could catch the ValueError and let it just return False
either raise an exception (there is no relative path) or return the
absolute path, which doesn't start with ..
On UNIX, the only potential problem I see is that it may or may not do
what you expect when symlinks are involved somewhere.
Also true. In my case I'd prefer it would not follow, but
it doesn't really matter.
So my function in order to be portable
had now to look like:
#
import os
def is_below_dir(fname,topdir):
try:
relpath = os.path.relpath(fname,topdir)
except ValueError:
return False
return not relpath.startswith('..'+os.sep)
print is_below_dir(path1,path2)
#
if I wanted to folow symlinks, then had to apply
os.path.realpath() on
fname AND on topdir
--
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--
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Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Jul 11, 5:16 pm, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 11, 9:01 am, a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: As usual, you would rather tell other people what to do instead of doing any work yourself. Dear God! My statement was intended to fetch responses like... Hey, that sounds like a great idea or \ Hey, lets get hacking on this. I am so sick of you people constantly accusing me of being lazy. You don't even know me. Also i think you're really a bit jealous because i have the brass cohones to initiate a coding project without your express written permission. I will not allow myself to be brow beaten by anyone! But why hijack someone else's announcement to do that? Congratulations alone would have been great. However good your intentions your message came across as but it would really have been better if you had been doing something else instead All the best, Michael Foord -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet wrote: * Stephen Hansen, on 11.07.2010 21:00: On 7/11/10 11:45 AM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: Follow-up: Is there a way to define compile-time constants in python and have the bytecode compiler optimize away expressions like: if is_my_extra_debugging_on: print ... when is_my_extra_debugging is set to false? I'd like to pay no run-time penalty for such code when extra_debugging is disabled. Any code wrapped in a __debug__ guard is utterly ommitted if you run Python with the -O option. That, and asserts go away. On #2: My point regarding the impossibility of writing the swap function for ints is to explicitly understand that this isn't possible, so as not to look for solutions along those lines when trying to write python code. Its impossible because Python's calling and namespace semantics simply don't work like that. There's no references in the traditional sense, because there's no variables-- boxes that you put values in. There's just concrete objects. Objects are passed into the function and given new names; that those objects have names in the enclosing scope is something you don't know, can't access, and can't manipulate.. even the objects don't know what names they happen to be called. Check out http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm Oh, I wouldn't give that advice. It's meaningless mumbo-jumbo. Python works like Java in this respect, that's all; neither Java nor Python support 'swap'. Of course there are variables, that's why the docs call them variables. In Java a variable is declared and exists even before the first assignment to it. In Python a 'variable' isn't declared and won't exist until the first 'assignment' to it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On Jul 11, 12:23 pm, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: If you're so unhappy with Python, why don't you create your own language. I suggest the name Rantthon. Ah yes, then i can finally assume my worthy title of the Ranting Dictator For Life! ;-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On 07/11/10 04:59, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: source at: http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser $ python grail.py (note the lack of python1.5 or python2.4) conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out. entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always a hoot to try browsing http://www.bbc.co.uk or http://www.youtube.com with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled]. l. Congrats! Are you planning to take over the world with grail and pyjs? :-) -- mph -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
John Bokma wrote: Thomas Jollans tho...@jollans.com writes: On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 10, 10:59 pm, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton luke.leigh...@gmail.com wrote: source at:http://github.com/lkcl/grailbrowser $ python grail.py (note the lack of python1.5 or python2.4) conversion of the 80 or so regex's to re has been carried out. entirely successfully or not is a matter yet to be determined. always a hoot to try browsinghttp://www.bbc.co.ukorhttp://www.youtube.com with a browser from 11+ years ago, it still cannot be resisted as grail is the only working graphical web browser in the world written in pure python [pybrowser is still in development, stalled]. l. Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause here... a cross platform Python file browser! Yes i know there are tons of them out there already and Python is a bit slow, but i think it would be useful to many peoples. Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does cross platform involve UNIX and something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of file system are similar enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. Can't think of why not. Of course not all operations are shared by each OS, but /I/ know that I can't do chmod on Windows. But it doesn't mean that on Windows I can't make a file only readable by me. Just give me the Windows security options on Windows, and chmod on *nix and I would be very happy. On Windows the root folders of the different drives could be treated as subfolders of a 'root' folder. Especially if all can be done via a context menu a la RISC OS. Ah, RISC OS! rant I'd heard how user-friendly the Mac was, but when I was first introduced to the Mac (circa MacOS 8) I was very surprised that even it still used old-fashioned Open and Save dialog boxes with their own little file browsers like on a Windows PC instead of drag-and-drop like I'd become used to on RISC OS. And that menu bar not even at the top of the window but at the top of the _screen_! And the way that bringing one Finder window to the front brought _all_ the Finder windows in front of the other windows! I was distinctly underwhelmed... :-( /rant -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 1:19 pm, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. What fix do you propose? Would your fix maintain the identity 0 == False? No because all integers should bool True. An integer is a value that IS NOT empty and IS NOT None. Therefore the only logical way to handle integer bool-ing is to say they are all True. For bonus points, explain how you'd deal with any backwards compatibility problems that your fix introduces. We would't deal with backwards compatibility as this notion of bool(1) == True and bool(0) == False if backwards way of thinking. Sure it saves a few keystrokes but in the end only serves to obfuscate the code and promote bad programming styles. WE SHOULD NEVER BE USING 1 IN PLACE OF True AND 0 IN PLACE OF False! Have you considered forking Python? That may be the way forward here. I have considered this many times in the past and continue to consider it even today. I believe the Python language to be the best high level language ever created up to this point. I also believe GvR to be a true genius who has forged the path of all 21st century high level languages. However, like all new inventions eventually the bright shiny paint job starts to oxidize and expose the rotten and rusting core that has been slowly disintegrating behind the scenes all along. GvR stood on the shoulders of giants to reach the plateau of elegant bliss that we know today as Python programming. As we all know perfection will never be achieved, only lusted after forever and ever. A perpetual game of cat and mouse. So maybe it is now time for the next genius (Rick?) to stand on Guido's shoulders and reach the next cookie-jar-of-programming-enlightenment one shelf higher than Guido's cookies where found. Maybe it was fate that CPython 3000 would disturb so many folks as to create a question in their minds... A splinter lodged deep within the mind constantly tickling new never before thoughts to form... Is Python all it can be?. A lustful yearning to fix the warts that have been ignored for far too long and were scarified at the alter of the simplistic development cycle. But i think we are now at a crossroads people. We must forge the new path and resist the temptation to circle around the familiar roads endlessly. Heck *maybe* Guido himself is the architect of this change? Maybe he *purposely* sowed discontent in an effort to ignite (or reignite?) a passion for change within this community...? The black monolith is before us. We have reached a crossroads. In the balance hangs the future of high level programming languages. Will we understand what the portal is and take the leap of faith forward, or just bang some bones around like toddlers for another 10,000 years? Only time will tell...? Only time will tell...? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Jul 11, 11:31 am, Thomas Jollans tho...@jollans.com wrote: On 07/11/2010 07:44 AM, rantingrick wrote: Congratulations on this effort Luke. However you know what project i would really like to see the community get around? ...dramatic pause here... a cross platform Python file browser! Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does cross platform involve UNIX and something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't worksnip... trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. Why is that a bad idea, Python does it all the time? Many software so it all the time. This sounds like more fear than anything. If you attempt to be full-featured, keeping it in one code base, let alone in one user interface, is destined to be a nightmare and induce suicides. Thats False! The above might have been very slightly exaggerated. Thats True! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:22 PM, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 11, 1:19 pm, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. What fix do you propose? Would your fix maintain the identity 0 == False? No because all integers should bool True. An integer is a value that IS NOT empty and IS NOT None. Therefore the only logical way to handle integer bool-ing is to say they are all True. For bonus points, explain how you'd deal with any backwards compatibility problems that your fix introduces. We would't deal with backwards compatibility as this notion of bool(1) == True and bool(0) == False if backwards way of thinking. Sure it saves a few keystrokes but in the end only serves to obfuscate the code and promote bad programming styles. WE SHOULD NEVER BE USING 1 IN PLACE OF True AND 0 IN PLACE OF False! Have you considered forking Python? That may be the way forward here. I have considered this many times in the past and continue to consider it even today. I believe the Python language to be the best high level language ever created up to this point. I also believe GvR to be a true genius who has forged the path of all 21st century high level languages. However, like all new inventions eventually the bright shiny paint job starts to oxidize and expose the rotten and rusting core that has been slowly disintegrating behind the scenes all along. GvR stood on the shoulders of giants to reach the plateau of elegant bliss that we know today as Python programming. As we all know perfection will never be achieved, only lusted after forever and ever. A perpetual game of cat and mouse. So maybe it is now time for the next genius (Rick?) to stand on Guido's shoulders and reach the next cookie-jar-of-programming-enlightenment one shelf higher than Guido's cookies where found. Maybe it was fate that CPython 3000 would disturb so many folks as to create a question in their minds... A splinter lodged deep within the mind constantly tickling new never before thoughts to form... Is Python all it can be?. A lustful yearning to fix the warts that have been ignored for far too long and were scarified at the alter of the simplistic development cycle. But i think we are now at a crossroads people. We must forge the new path and resist the temptation to circle around the familiar roads endlessly. Heck *maybe* Guido himself is the architect of this change? Maybe he *purposely* sowed discontent in an effort to ignite (or reignite?) a passion for change within this community...? The black monolith is before us. We have reached a crossroads. In the balance hangs the future of high level programming languages. Will we understand what the portal is and take the leap of faith forward, or just bang some bones around like toddlers for another 10,000 years? Only time will tell...? Only time will tell...? I literally laughed out loud as I read this. Go write some code, might help connect you back to reality. Geremy Condra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Jul 11, 11:57 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: On 7/11/10 9:31 AM, Thomas Jollans wrote: trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. And you can't lump the Mac in with UNIX here, even though it really is UNIX at the foundation, because there's some very fundamental differences between HFS+ (and some other details that are higher level) and more traditional unix FS's. Not to mention that the Mac FS situation is slightly schitzo since it has two very different ways at looking and treating the files, the posix way and the Foundation way... and users think more in terms of the latter, usually. At least less sophisticated users. Sure you can! Have you ever heard of a *rare* module by the name of os? Yes i know *nobody* uses it but it works nonetheless! You can't do a cross-platform file manager without either doing a huge amount of work exposing each platform separately-- essentially getting separate codebases for each-- or doing a least common denominator situation, at which point I boggle: why the hell did you bother to begin with? Even Finder is better then that, let alone windows' Explorer. Nothing is worse than InternetExploder\Exploder, nothing! And whats wrong with seperate code bases, it's three modules and a startup script... if sys.platform == 'win32': import fm32 elif sys.platform == 'darwin': import fmdarwin elif sys.platform == 'nix': import fmnix We just recently had a discussion about CONDITIONALS Stephen have you forgotten already? (*): I do not argue that a non-default file manager on an OS might be a great thing. Now you're talking! (**): The drop stack is a little corner of the window that you can drag files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then drag more files onto. Then you can navigate to another part of the system, and drag files off of said stack, in a LIFO manner, moving them as a result of this action. This drop stack sound interesting. I've always hated the cut paste as you could not add to the cut buffer. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 23:50:05 -0700, rantingrick wrote: You do realize that Python must build a tuple for ever conditional that uses this semantic? This is more bad, bad, bad than integer bool-ing! My bin packer could potentially compute millions of parts. I do not want to waste valuable processor cycles building numerous tuples just for the sake of a conditional condition! This is bad coding style Stephen. No, premature optimization is bad coding. Building a tuple is extremely fast: $ python -m timeit x = () 100 loops, best of 3: 0.316 usec per loop $ python -m timeit x = False 100 loops, best of 3: 0.36 usec per loop Testing is fast too: $ python -m timeit x = (); 1 if x else 2 100 loops, best of 3: 0.663 usec per loop $ python -m timeit x = False; 1 if x else 2 100 loops, best of 3: 0.969 usec per loop You've been around here long enough that you should know better. Stop wasting your time, and ours, ranting over the enormous cost of things that aren't costly at all. Come back when you have profiled your code and can prove that the cost of building empty tuples is an actual bottleneck. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:30:36 -0700, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 3:03 am, Günther Dietrich gd.use...@spamfence.net wrote: So, it is not a disadvantage that the functions you listed above are named in this way. In the contrary, it is an advantage, as it keeps newcomers from using stupid variable names. int for an Integer is stupid? list for a List is stupid? str for a String is stupid? What am i missing? If you're going to use generic names, why type three or four letters when one will do? i, j, k, m, n, p, q for ints. L, a, b, x for lists s, t, a, b for strings. If you don't want to use generic names, then int, list, str are useless because they don't mean anything. You need something like: count_of_widgets list_of_widgets description -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:26:36 -0700, rantingrick wrote: Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right? WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot wisely use variables like... str=this is a string list = [1,2,3] def make_random_objs(range=10) def show_message(str) int = 12 Yes. So what? You can't wisely use variables like: True = rantingrick is an obnoxious loudmouth None = the problem he is describing Nor can you wisely use variables like: len = len(something) chr = chr(48) [...] Just thoughts. But not deep thoughts. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On 12/07/2010 01:02, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 23:50:05 -0700, rantingrick wrote: You do realize that Python must build a tuple for ever conditional that uses this semantic? This is more bad, bad, bad than integer bool-ing! My bin packer could potentially compute millions of parts. I do not want to waste valuable processor cycles building numerous tuples just for the sake of a conditional condition! This is bad coding style Stephen. No, premature optimization is bad coding. Building a tuple is extremely fast: $ python -m timeit x = () 100 loops, best of 3: 0.316 usec per loop $ python -m timeit x = False 100 loops, best of 3: 0.36 usec per loop Testing is fast too: $ python -m timeit x = (); 1 if x else 2 100 loops, best of 3: 0.663 usec per loop $ python -m timeit x = False; 1 if x else 2 100 loops, best of 3: 0.969 usec per loop You've been around here long enough that you should know better. Stop wasting your time, and ours, ranting over the enormous cost of things that aren't costly at all. Come back when you have profiled your code and can prove that the cost of building empty tuples is an actual bottleneck. +1 Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 18:31:39 +0200, Thomas Jollans wrote: Cross platform file manager. Hmm. Does cross platform involve UNIX and something that isn't UNIX, say, Windows? Erm, no. No, no, no. It won't work. Well, it would work, but it wouldn't be any good. The UNIX and Windows concepts of file system are similar enough for most programs not to care too much, but for something like a file manager, that works intimately with the file system, trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. Try telling that to the KDE people. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Jul 11, 5:28 pm, Fuzzyman fuzzy...@gmail.com wrote: But why hijack someone else's announcement to do that? Congratulations alone would have been great. However good your intentions your message came across as but it would really have been better if you had been doing something else instead Micheal i think you're just simply projecting some inner feelings on to my post resulting in a complete mis-understanding. And i *did not* say the project was useless, on the contrary i am very happy the OP resurrected this lost script. I only suggested a similar project that the OP *may* find to be interesting. Maybe not, but lets leave the decision for the OP, Ok. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:22:41 -0700, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 1:19 pm, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. What fix do you propose? Would your fix maintain the identity 0 == False? No because all integers should bool True. An integer is a value that IS NOT empty Integers aren't containers, the concept of empty or full doesn't apply to them. and IS NOT None. By this definition, the string rantingrick hasn't thought this through is an integer. It's not empty, and not None, so therefore an integer by your definition. Possibly the integer two-thirds of the way between 3 and 4. Therefore the only logical way to handle integer bool-ing is to say they are all True. For some definition of logical. For bonus points, explain how you'd deal with any backwards compatibility problems that your fix introduces. We would't deal with backwards compatibility as this notion of bool(1) == True and bool(0) == False if backwards way of thinking. Sure it saves a few keystrokes but in the end only serves to obfuscate the code and promote bad programming styles. WE SHOULD NEVER BE USING 1 IN PLACE OF True AND 0 IN PLACE OF False! Nevertheless, what is done is done, and now you have to deal with it. Just wishing that it was never done is not dealing with backwards compatibility, and breaking existing code is not an acceptable option. So if your plan is to refuse to deal with existing code, I am very glad indeed that your plan will go absolutely nowhere. Have you considered forking Python? That may be the way forward here. I have considered this many times in the past and continue to consider it even today. Please do. I think that this will be the best thing for the Python community. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:59:06 -0700, dhruvbird wrote: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? I found this link (http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python- class/lists.html) which suggests that this is done to make sure that the programmer understands that the list is being modified in place, but that rules out constructs like: ([1,2,3,4].reverse()+[[]]).reverse() Yes. So what? Where's the problem? List methods work in place. If you're annoyed now, that's *nothing* to the annoyance you'll feel if they returned the list and you did this: alist = [1,2,3] blist = alist.append(4) # Make a new list with 4 appended. assert alist == [1,2,3] I want to prepend an empty list to [1,2,3,4]. This is just a toy example, since I can always do that with [[]]+[1,2,3,4]. Or: L = [[]] L.extend([1,2,3,4]) Or: L = [1,2,3,4] L.insert(0, []) Not everything needs to be a one-liner. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On 7/11/10 5:01 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 11:57 am, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: On 7/11/10 9:31 AM, Thomas Jollans wrote: trying to support both UNIX and Windows is NOT a good idea. And you can't lump the Mac in with UNIX here, even though it really is UNIX at the foundation, because there's some very fundamental differences between HFS+ (and some other details that are higher level) and more traditional unix FS's. Not to mention that the Mac FS situation is slightly schitzo since it has two very different ways at looking and treating the files, the posix way and the Foundation way... and users think more in terms of the latter, usually. At least less sophisticated users. Sure you can! Have you ever heard of a *rare* module by the name of os? Yes i know *nobody* uses it but it works nonetheless! Uh, os is beyond inadequate. Even shutil is severely lacking. For the most basic operations, Python's provided tools basically work only in very simple cases -- but only those simple cases -- and a file manager would be an utter failure if it had those limitations. See the big red box on top of the docs: http://docs.python.org/library/shutil.html Copying a file without the resource fork on a mac, *can* result in essential data being lost (This is less common then it used to be). As simple a task as chown/chmod for posix systems to take ownership of a file and make it only readable by you is actually a *deeply* complex task with the win32api. Check out http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-win32/2004-July/002111.html for just an example of what it /looks/ like. That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty details, like how Mac's are *usually* case-insensitive, windows is always, linux is almost always not, and yet some power users go out of their way to enable case-sensitivity on mac filesystems (which has a tendency to break all kinds of things). Oh, and a LOT of the filesystem-details and how you could go around handling them on a mac is *very* dependant on just what version of OSX you have. It changes a lot. You can't do a cross-platform file manager without either doing a huge amount of work exposing each platform separately-- essentially getting separate codebases for each-- or doing a least common denominator situation, at which point I boggle: why the hell did you bother to begin with? Even Finder is better then that, let alone windows' Explorer. Nothing is worse than InternetExploder\Exploder, nothing! And whats wrong with seperate code bases, it's three modules and a startup script... if sys.platform == 'win32': import fm32 elif sys.platform == 'darwin': import fmdarwin elif sys.platform == 'nix': import fmnix We just recently had a discussion about CONDITIONALS Stephen have you forgotten already? You underestimate the significance of the differences and how that would impact the resulting user interface; have you actually implemented anything which targeted the big three OS's and did non-trivial file operations? I have: just dealing with permissions and network shares and other details is actually a pain in the ass. And in the end, there's plenty of Explorer/Finder replacements out there which do their job splendidly. And I assume not everyone on linux loves nautilus and uses it :P (*): I do not argue that a non-default file manager on an OS might be a great thing. Now you're talking! Selective quoting to make it sound like I'm agreeing in some way with you = jerkoff move. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Naming Conventions, Where's the Convention Waldo?
On 12/07/2010 01:06, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 00:26:36 -0700, rantingrick wrote: Another source of asininity seems to be the naming conventions of the Python language proper! True/False start with an upper case and i applaud this. However str, list, tuple, int, float --need i go on...?-- start with lowercase. Q: Well what the hell is your problem Rick. Who cares right? WRONG, I tell you what my problem is. Now i cannot wisely use variables like... str=this is a string list = [1,2,3] def make_random_objs(range=10) def show_message(str) int = 12 Yes. So what? You can't wisely use variables like: True = rantingrick is an obnoxious loudmouth +1 QOTW None = the problem he is describing Nor can you wisely use variables like: len = len(something) chr = chr(48) [...] Just thoughts. But not deep thoughts. Well said Steven, or is it Stephen, or Stephan, or Stefen, or what? Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
dhruvbird wrote: On a side note, is there any other way to append to a list using slices (apart from the one below): x[len(x):len(x)] = [item to append] dy you mean x.extend([1,2,3]) ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 7:02 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: Come back when you have profiled your code and can prove that the cost of building empty tuples is an actual bottleneck. Did you even read this thread, i mean from head to tail. I NEVER said building EMPTY tuples was the cause of my rant. My complaint (an oddly enough the title of this thread!) concerns the fact that Python treats 0 as False and every integer above and below 0 as True. Which is another example of how *some* aspects of Python support bad coding styles. The only reason i used the tuple was so that my conditional logic worked as expected. *Stephen* offered a solution in the form of using tuples within the conditional expression. I countered his solution by showing that creating tuples in a conditional expression is slower that testing for bool-inity. *Steven*, Please read the thread completely before making off hand comments else you could make a complete fool of yourself! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 7:18 pm, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: +1 Oh mark grow a spine already, really. I can't help but thinking of the spineless Robert Ford every time you open your mouth. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
I get sometimes a Errno 9 Bad file descriptor the code is too long to show it here but what are the circumstances this could happen? A web search showed nothing. I have especially the feeling Python 2.6 has some problems with Unicode ... and might not find the file. Is that possible? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On Jul 11, 7:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:22:41 -0700, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 1:19 pm, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. What fix do you propose? Would your fix maintain the identity 0 == False? No because all integers should bool True. An integer is a value that IS NOT empty Integers aren't containers, the concept of empty or full doesn't apply to them. And again you failed to follow along with the thread so you have no idea where my statements is projected from. Of course integers are NOT containers in the way a list or dict is a container! My remark was a rebuff of comments made by Stephen earlier. and IS NOT None. By this definition, the string rantingrick hasn't thought this through is an integer. It's not empty, and not None, so therefore an integer by your definition. Again you show lack of reading and comprehension skills. The fact that an integer IS NOT None does not mean this is the only definition of an integer. And any blabbing otherwise is just complete nonsensical crap. If you think you're going to fly in here and dis-credit me that easily you'd better pack a lunch next time! I gots my think'in cap on today fella! We would't deal with backwards compatibility as this notion of bool(1) == True and bool(0) == False if backwards way of thinking. Sure it saves a few keystrokes but in the end only serves to obfuscate the code and promote bad programming styles. WE SHOULD NEVER BE USING 1 IN PLACE OF True AND 0 IN PLACE OF False! Nevertheless, what is done is done, and now you have to deal with it. Just wishing that it was never done is not dealing with backwards compatibility, and breaking existing code is not an acceptable option. Yea and if Guido would have taking your defeatist attitude we'd all be using braces for scope! You know D'Aprano, i had once considered you one of the foremost intelligent minds within this group. However, after your display within this thread i am beginning to doubt my original beliefs of you. Hopefully you're just having an off day? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Problems running VirtualEnv under Windows.
Hello, After reading 'Practical Django Projects' I decided that I want to implement the VirtualEnv tip suggested in order to properly segregate code/modules in different projects. I am however having problems with my django installations not using site-packages within the virtualenv but rather attempting to use site-packages in the default python installation directory. Recreating the problem: 1) Install Python 2.7 via the Windows installer. Add C:/Python27;C:/ Python27/Scripts to Windows PATH. 2) Install setuptools-0.6c11-py2.7.egg via the Windows installer. 3) Install VirtualEnv through `pip install virtualenv` 4) Create an VirtualEnv via `virtualenv --no-site-packages MyEnvName` 5) Activate VirtualEnv via `../MyEnvName/Scripts/activate.bat` 6) Install django via `pip install django` 7) Run django-admin.py startproject ProjectName 8) Error results stating django.core module does not exist. NB: This error will not occur if django is installed in your root directory. NB2: Running the Python interpreter in active VirtualEnv to print the sys.path shows the correct paths. Which has just futher added to my confusion. I'd appreciate any insight or troubleshooting assistance. Thanks Ash -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself?
On Jul 11, 8:59 am, dhruvbird dhruvb...@gmail.com wrote: Why doesn't python's list append() method return the list itself? For that matter, even the reverse() and sort() methods? Because Guido thinks that having those methods return None is the best way to communicate that the underlying object has been mutated in- place. Some other languages do it differently, but this is Guido's language, so we do it his way. Raymond -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On Jul 11, 7:31 pm, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: You said about macs... Copying a file without the resource fork on a mac, *can* result in essential data being lost (This is less common then it used to be). As simple a task as chown/chmod for posix systems to take ownership of a file and make it only readable by you is actually a *deeply* complex task with the win32api. And again... That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty details, like how Mac's are *usually* case-insensitive, windows is always, linux is almost always not, and yet some power users go out of their way to enable case-sensitivity on mac filesystems (which has a tendency to break all kinds of things). And again... Oh, and a LOT of the filesystem-details and how you could go around handling them on a mac is *very* dependant on just what version of OSX you have. It changes a lot. Well i've never used a mac and now i won't even bother for sure! But if you want to maintain the macfman code base feel free. Selective quoting to make it sound like I'm agreeing in some way with you = jerkoff move. *fakes throwing stick* *dog runs to get stick but stick not there* Who's smarter ;-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
* MRAB, on 12.07.2010 00:37: Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet wrote: * Stephen Hansen, on 11.07.2010 21:00: On 7/11/10 11:45 AM, wheres pythonmonks wrote: Follow-up: Is there a way to define compile-time constants in python and have the bytecode compiler optimize away expressions like: if is_my_extra_debugging_on: print ... when is_my_extra_debugging is set to false? I'd like to pay no run-time penalty for such code when extra_debugging is disabled. Any code wrapped in a __debug__ guard is utterly ommitted if you run Python with the -O option. That, and asserts go away. On #2: My point regarding the impossibility of writing the swap function for ints is to explicitly understand that this isn't possible, so as not to look for solutions along those lines when trying to write python code. Its impossible because Python's calling and namespace semantics simply don't work like that. There's no references in the traditional sense, because there's no variables-- boxes that you put values in. There's just concrete objects. Objects are passed into the function and given new names; that those objects have names in the enclosing scope is something you don't know, can't access, and can't manipulate.. even the objects don't know what names they happen to be called. Check out http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm Oh, I wouldn't give that advice. It's meaningless mumbo-jumbo. Python works like Java in this respect, that's all; neither Java nor Python support 'swap'. Of course there are variables, that's why the docs call them variables. In Java a variable is declared and exists even before the first assignment to it. In Python a 'variable' isn't declared and won't exist until the first 'assignment' to it. That is a misconception. In Python a variable is declared by having an assignment to it, which for a local variable may be anywhere within a routine. If such a variable is used before it's been assigned to, then you get an uninitialized variable exception. Clearly the variable must exist in order for the exception to refer to it (not to mention the exception occurring at all). def foo(): print( blah ) blah = this is both an assignment and a declaration causing it to exist foo() Clearly when the exception is raised, referring to the variable, the variable exists. Contrary to your statement that is before the assignment. However, as stated up-thread, I do not expect facts, logic or general reasoning to have any effect whatsoever on such hard-core religious beliefs. And I do not care whether I convince you or not. But I *do not* want the religious subset of the community to succeed too much in propagating nonsense idiot beliefs to newbies -- hence the concrete example that any newbie can try. Cheers hth., - Alf -- blog at url: http://alfps.wordpress.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
On 7/11/10 5:51 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 7:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:22:41 -0700, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 1:19 pm, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: Okay. What fix do you propose? Would your fix maintain the identity 0 == False? No because all integers should bool True. An integer is a value that IS NOT empty Integers aren't containers, the concept of empty or full doesn't apply to them. And again you failed to follow along with the thread so you have no idea where my statements is projected from. Of course integers are NOT containers in the way a list or dict is a container! My remark was a rebuff of comments made by Stephen earlier. I forgot to reply to that; an integer is certainly not empty. But 0 is nothing. Its not empty vs full. Its nothing vs something that determines if something is considered true-ish or not. Nevertheless, what is done is done, and now you have to deal with it. Just wishing that it was never done is not dealing with backwards compatibility, and breaking existing code is not an acceptable option. Yea and if Guido would have taking your defeatist attitude we'd all be using braces for scope! Guido made a new language. You should go do that. Feel free to define it however you want. In Python, the meaning of truth goes back a very, very, very long way. It isn't going to change. Every once in awhile people hate it. For awhile after True/False were introduced, some people wanted to go modify things to a boolean strictness. But in the end, its all pointless. This is just how it works. Its not going to change. It would break thousands and thousands of lines of code. There's not going to be another major breakage for, oh, maybe ten years. Or twenty. If ever. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: integer = 1 == True and integer.0 == False is bad, bad, bad!!!
i had once considered you one of the foremost intelligent minds within this group. However, after your display within this thread i am beginning to doubt my original beliefs of you. Oh ... grow a spine already, really. I can't help but thinking of the spineless Robert Ford every time you open your mouth @rantingrick : these comments among others fail to meet the standard of engagement expected of, and traditional to, this list. Take a breath, get some sleep and come back with a level head and a civil tongue. If you have any valid point to make at all, your attitude so far has failed to make it credible, and nor will it enable you to enlist supporters. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: grailbrowser now running under python 2.5 (probably above too)
On 7/11/10 6:10 PM, rantingrick wrote: On Jul 11, 7:31 pm, Stephen Hansen me+list/pyt...@ixokai.io wrote: You said about macs... Copying a file without the resource fork on a mac, *can* result in essential data being lost (This is less common then it used to be). As simple a task as chown/chmod for posix systems to take ownership of a file and make it only readable by you is actually a *deeply* complex task with the win32api. And again... That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty details, like how Mac's are *usually* case-insensitive, windows is always, linux is almost always not, and yet some power users go out of their way to enable case-sensitivity on mac filesystems (which has a tendency to break all kinds of things). And again... Oh, and a LOT of the filesystem-details and how you could go around handling them on a mac is *very* dependant on just what version of OSX you have. It changes a lot. Well i've never used a mac and now i won't even bother for sure! But if you want to maintain the macfman code base feel free. I like how you tried to cut out my commentary on Windows and its difficulties and peculiarities, but you accidentally included it anyways -- hint: read more then the first line of a paragraph. My point stands. And I take your non actually responding to my actual point as a concession to it. With that, I'm signing off of this conversation. Tah. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Easy questions from a python beginner
On 7/11/10 6:12 PM, Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet wrote: However, as stated up-thread, I do not expect facts, logic or general reasoning to have any effect whatsoever on such hard-core religious beliefs. Grow up, and/or get a grip, and/or get over yourself. Everyone who disagreed with you, disagreed with you with arguments, logic, facts, and reasoning. You disputed those facts, disagreed with the conclusions, but for you to then just dismiss people who don't agree with you as merely religious, is childish. Exactly why I think you're wrong -- you're free to go re-read, I stand by my statements in this thread, and the others. The same arguments apply. Its not a religion, dear; my conclusions are not a matter of faith. That's all I have to say on this subject; the conversation has been had, at length (repeatedly). I swear, I'm just going to filter you and Rick out to /dev/null today and leave it at that at this rate. I'm getting worn out of these kinds of responses. -- Stephen Hansen ... Also: Ixokai ... Mail: me+list/python (AT) ixokai (DOT) io ... Blog: http://meh.ixokai.io/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
