date:20110709

A tracker issue [1] recently got me thinking about what makes
functions special.  The discussion there was regarding the distinction
between compile time (generation of .pyc files for modules and
execution of code blocks), [function] definition time, and [function]
execution time.  Definition time actually happens during compile time,
but it has its own label to mark the contrast with execution time.  So
why do functions get this special treatment?

Functions are a special case in Python for providing a more optimized
execution of a code block in pure Python code.  And how is that?  When
the function is defined, a code object is generated for the function
body along with a few static details that will be used during
execution.  No other objects have code objects.  No other objects in
Python have this special optimization.

Maybe I am missing something, or maybe it is super obvious, but isn't
this a critical point?  Is it just a CPython implementation detail
that code objects should provide an optimization, or is it a
specification of the language?   From the docs, the code objects in of
function objects are the latter, but the optimization expectation is
not clearly indicated.  Are there other motivations behind code
objects that I am missing?  Am I wrong about the optimization
expectation?

Thoughts?

-eric

[1] http://bugs.python.org/issue12374
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Re: String concatenation vs. string formatting

On 2011.07.09 06:06 AM, Vinay Sajip wrote:
 In a logging context at least, using the form like

 logger.debug(formatting message with %s, arguments)

 rather than

 logger.debug(formatting message with %s % arguments)
How would I do that with the newer formatting? I've tried:
 logger.info('Binary preset file {file} successfully stored.', {file :
 queue[0].preset_file})
(global name 'file' not defined)
and
 logger.info('Binary preset file {file} successfully stored.',
 file=queue[0].preset_file)
(unexpected keyword 'file')

 By the way, logging primarily uses %-formatting instead of the newer
 {}-formatting, because it pre-dates {}-formatting. In more recent versions of
 Python, all of Python's three formatting styles are supported - see
I've noticed. :-)
 log_formatter = logging.Formatter('{asctime} - __main__ - {funcName} -
 line {lineno} - {levelname} - {message}', style='{')

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Re: What makes functions special?

Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com writes:

 A tracker issue [1] recently got me thinking about what makes
 functions special.

As you describe, functions are special for your scenario because a
function definition needs to result in executable code as an object.

 Definition time actually happens during compile time, but it has its
 own label to mark the contrast with execution time. So why do
 functions get this special treatment?

You answer this question.

 No other objects have code objects. No other objects in Python have
 this special optimization.

Yes. The two facts are directly related.

 Maybe I am missing something, or maybe it is super obvious, but isn't
 this a critical point?

What is the crisis (“a stark change from one state to another”) that
you're referring to by “a critical point”?

Yes, functions are different and are treated differently. What's your
question?

 From the docs, the code objects in of function objects are the latter,
 but the optimization expectation is not clearly indicated. Are there
 other motivations behind code objects that I am missing? Am I wrong
 about the optimization expectation?

What optimisation expectation?

 Thoughts?

I think yours need to be expressed more explicitly; I'm not seeing the
issue that concerns you.

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  `\ It's absolutely not.” —Bill Gates, 1995-10-23 |
_o__)  |
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Re: What makes functions special?

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote:
Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com writes:

A tracker issue [1] recently got me thinking about what makes
functions special.

As you describe, functions are special for your scenario because a
function definition needs to result in executable code as an object.

Definition time actually happens during compile time, but it has its
own label to mark the contrast with execution time. So why do
functions get this special treatment?

You answer this question.

No other objects have code objects. No other objects in Python have
this special optimization.

Yes. The two facts are directly related.

Maybe I am missing something, or maybe it is super obvious, but isn't
this a critical point?

What is the crisis (“a stark change from one state to another”) that
you're referring to by “a critical point”?

Yes, functions are different and are treated differently. What's your
question?

From the docs, the code objects in of function objects are the latter,
but the optimization expectation is not clearly indicated. Are there
other motivations behind code objects that I am missing? Am I wrong
about the optimization expectation?

What optimisation expectation?

Thoughts?

I think yours need to be expressed more explicitly; I'm not seeing the
issue that concerns you.

My point is that functions are special in Python because they provide
a built in optimization via the special execution of code objects. I
would like to know if it is really that big a deal, and if the
optimized execution of code objects is a CPython implementation detail
or a specification of the language.

-eric

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Re: What makes functions special?

2011-07-09 Thread Terry Reedy


On 7/9/2011 2:28 PM, Eric Snow wrote:

A tracker issue [1] recently got me thinking about what makes
functions special.  The discussion there was regarding the distinction
between compile time (generation of .pyc files for modules and
execution of code blocks), [function] definition time, and [function]
execution time.  Definition time actually happens during compile time,


Not true. For main modules, execution of each statement immediately 
follows compilation, but not for other modules, where compilation and 
caching of code objects may happen years before the function object is 
created.



Functions are a special case in Python for providing a more optimized
execution of a code block in pure Python code.  And how is that?  When
the function is defined, a code object is generated for the function
body along with a few static details that will be used during
execution.  No other objects have code objects.  No other objects in
Python have this special optimization.


A .pyc file is a serialized code object for a module.

As for the rest, I am not sure what you are asking.

Terry Reedy

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How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

2011-07-09 Thread John Salerno

I have a script that does some stuff that I want to run every day for
maybe a week, or a month. So far I've been good about running it every
night, but is there some way (using Python, of course) that I can make
it automatically run at a set time each night?
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Re: How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

On 2011.07.09 07:26 PM, John Salerno wrote:
 I have a script that does some stuff that I want to run every day for
 maybe a week, or a month. So far I've been good about running it every
 night, but is there some way (using Python, of course) that I can make
 it automatically run at a set time each night?
I would use the OS to worry about scheduling (cron/Windows Task
Scheduler/whatever), but in Python, you could probably use a while True
loop, time.sleep() (to specify how often to check the time) and a
datetime.time or datetime.now object (e.g. datetime.now().hour).
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Re: How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

John Salerno johnj...@gmail.com writes:

 is there some way (using Python, of course) that I can make it
 automatically run at a set time each night?

You need to use whatever facilities your operating system has for
scheduled events. That's unrelated to the language you use for
implementing the program.

On a Unix-like system (e.g. GNU+Linux), you could create a ‘cron’ job
entry.

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Re: What makes functions special?

Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com writes:

 On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote:
  Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com writes:
  No other objects have code objects. No other objects in Python have
  this special optimization.
 
  Yes. The two facts are directly related.
[…]

  Yes, functions are different and are treated differently. What's
  your question?

 My point is that functions are special in Python because they provide
 a built in optimization via the special execution of code objects.

Functions are special because they define a code object.

 I would like to know if it is really that big a deal

Is *what* really that big a deal?

Perhaps this could be clearer if you'd describe what it is that
surprises you, and how you'd expect it to be different.

 and if the optimized execution of code objects is a CPython
 implementation detail or a specification of the language.

I don't know that it's a specification. But functions result in code
objects, and other statements don't; I am not seeing why treating them
differently is surprising.

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Re: How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

2011-07-09 Thread Alexander Kapps


On 10.07.2011 02:26, John Salerno wrote:

I have a script that does some stuff that I want to run every day for
maybe a week, or a month. So far I've been good about running it every
night, but is there some way (using Python, of course) that I can make
it automatically run at a set time each night?


Use your operating system's facilities to run timed jobs.

Unix/Linux: Cron jobs
Windows: Scheduled Tasks
Mac: don't know, but probably Cron too
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Re: What makes functions special?

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
 On 7/9/2011 2:28 PM, Eric Snow wrote:

 A tracker issue [1] recently got me thinking about what makes
 functions special.  The discussion there was regarding the distinction
 between compile time (generation of .pyc files for modules and
 execution of code blocks), [function] definition time, and [function]
 execution time.  Definition time actually happens during compile time,

 Not true. For main modules, execution of each statement immediately follows
 compilation, but not for other modules, where compilation and caching of
 code objects may happen years before the function object is created.


So for non-main modules the function definition happens during module
compilation, and for all other code blocks (__main__, exec, etc.) it
happens during execution of the code block?

 Functions are a special case in Python for providing a more optimized
 execution of a code block in pure Python code.  And how is that?  When
 the function is defined, a code object is generated for the function
 body along with a few static details that will be used during
 execution.  No other objects have code objects.  No other objects in
 Python have this special optimization.

 A .pyc file is a serialized code object for a module.


I hadn't thought of it like that.  Nice insight.  In that case, do
[non-main] module definition and execution time have the same logical
separation as function phases do?

 As for the rest, I am not sure what you are asking.


Yeah, I have a real knack for communicating.  :)  Mostly I am just
trying to put together more pieces of the Python puzzle.  In this case
I was trying to find out if the optimized execution of code objects
for functions is a part of the language or just an implementation
detail.

-eric

 Terry Reedy

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Re: What makes functions special?

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote:
Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com writes:

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au
wrote:
Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com writes:
No other objects have code objects. No other objects in Python have
this special optimization.

Yes. The two facts are directly related.
[…]

Yes, functions are different and are treated differently. What's
your question?

My point is that functions are special in Python because they provide
a built in optimization via the special execution of code objects.

Functions are special because they define a code object.

Right. But the point is that the code objects (in CPython at least)
allow a special execution of the function body. What does that
special execution give us? I am guessing a sufficient performance
increase. Is there anything else? And do other Python
implementations do anything special with code objects?

I am not questioning why it was done a certain way, but rather trying
to understand how Python works.

I would like to know if it is really that big a deal

Is *what* really that big a deal?

Perhaps this could be clearer if you'd describe what it is that
surprises you, and how you'd expect it to be different.

I don't have any unexpected failure that I ran into or anything like
that. I am just trying to learn more about the ins and outs of Python
and that tracker issue got me thinking. And I know that there are
plenty of people on this list that know a lot more about Python than I
do. :) So I thought I would ask (in my own obscure way) if I was
understanding the definition/execution model correctly. Sorry for any
confusion.

-eric

and if the optimized execution of code objects is a CPython
implementation detail or a specification of the language.

I don't know that it's a specification. But functions result in code
objects, and other statements don't; I am not seeing why treating them
differently is surprising.

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Re: What makes functions special?

2011-07-09 Thread Steven D'Aprano

Eric Snow wrote:

 Mostly I am just
 trying to put together more pieces of the Python puzzle.  In this case
 I was trying to find out if the optimized execution of code objects
 for functions is a part of the language or just an implementation
 detail.

You keep using that phrase, optimized execution of code objects for
functions, but I have no idea what that means.

The best I can think of is that you are thinking along these lines...

Suppose we have the source code to a function:

def spam(n):
return SPAM*n

To execute this, Python currently compiles the function into a code block,
and then when you call spam(n) elsewhere, Python executes the already
compiled code block.

Suppose instead an implementation of Python did not pre-compile the
function. Each time you called spam(n), the implementation would have to
locate the source code and interpret it on the spot. Would that be
allowed?

If that's your question, then I would call that a Python interpreter using
c.1960 technology (as opposed to a byte-code compiler, which all the main
implementations currently are).

If that were the *only* difference, then I see no reason why it wouldn't be
allowed as an implementation of Python. A horribly slow implementation, but
still an implementation.

However, I doubt that would be the only difference. Given such a
simple-minded Python interpreter, it would be hard to provide expected
Python language features such as compiled code objects, closures, etc. You
would have to fake them somehow. Provided you could fake them sufficiently
well, then the lack of a byte-code compiler is just a quality of
implementation issue.

If that's *not* your question, them I'm stumped.




-- 
Steven

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Newbie help - Programming the Semantic Web with Python

2011-07-09 Thread Bruce Whealton

Hello,
So, I got this book on Programming the Semantic Web about the same 
time I started learning Python.  The code seems to be developed for python 2.7 
and not 3, I believe.  The code is here:
http://semprog.com/content/the-book/
I tried to run simpletriple.py from inside eclipse with PYDEV.  The first thing 
it has a problem with is this line:
def add(self, (sub, pred, obj)):
I think the problem is with the parentheses before the sub.  I removed those 
and that seemed to fix that error or make it go away.  I don’t remember how I 
figured that out,   It should be on the Errata page for sure.  
Then it has a problem with this line:
print list(g.triples((None, None, None)))
If I was using python 3, it would require () around the thing that is going to 
be printed, right?  Maybe python 2.7 doesn’t like this line for the same 
reason.  

The book suggests that from IDLE, I can just use 
from simplegraph import SimpleGraph
That means it is going to look for a file named simplegraph.py
but where will it be looking?  I guess I would have to have it in the same 
folder as the python interpreter or one of the PATH directories, right?
Thanks,
Bruce

++

Bruce Whealton, Owner Future Wave Designs

FOAF: http://whealton.info/BruceWhealtonJr/foaf.rdf

Vcard: http://whealton.info/BruceWhealtonJr/brucewhealtonvcard.html

Web Design and Development http://FutureWaveDesigns.com

http://futurewavedesigns.com/wordpress/

Web Technology wiki: http://futurewavedesigns.com/w/

++

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Re: How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

2011-07-09 Thread Cameron Simpson

On 10Jul2011 03:00, Alexander Kapps alex.ka...@web.de wrote:
| On 10.07.2011 02:26, John Salerno wrote:
| I have a script that does some stuff that I want to run every day for
| maybe a week, or a month. So far I've been good about running it every
| night, but is there some way (using Python, of course) that I can make
| it automatically run at a set time each night?
| 
| Use your operating system's facilities to run timed jobs.
| 
| Unix/Linux: Cron jobs
| Windows: Scheduled Tasks
| Mac: don't know, but probably Cron too

Yep. Macs are UNIX, BSD derived.
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http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

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And flame them. - Dan Sorenson, z1...@exnet.iastate.edu, DoD #1066
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Re: How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

2011-07-09 Thread John Salerno

Thanks everyone! I probably should have said something like Python,
if possible and efficient, otherwise any other method ! :)

I'll look into the Task Scheduler. Thanks again!
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Re: Newbie help - Programming the Semantic Web with Python

2011-07-09 Thread Chris Angelico

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Bruce Whealton br...@whealton.info wrote:
problem with is this line:
     def add(self, (sub, pred, obj)):
 I think the problem is with the parentheses before the sub.  I removed those 
 and that seemed to fix that error or make it go away.  I don’t remember how I 
 figured that out,   It should be on the Errata page for sure.
 Then it has a problem with this line:
     print list(g.triples((None, None, None)))
 If I was using python 3, it would require () around the thing that is going 
 to be printed, right?  Maybe python 2.7 doesn’t like this line for the same 
 reason.


The issue there is with tuple unpacking. To match the older syntax,
don't touch the call, but change the definition thus:
def add(self, args):
  (sub, pred, obj)=args

Or, of course, simply list the arguments directly, rather than in a
tuple; but that requires changing every call (if it's a small program
that may not be a problem).

You're right about needing parentheses around the print() call; in
Python 2 it's a statement, but in Python 3, print is a function like
any other.

Regarding the module search path, this may help:
http://docs.python.org/dev/tutorial/modules.html#the-module-search-path

Chris Angelico
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Re: CI and BDD with Python

On Jul 8, 9:36 pm, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
 mark curphey, 09.07.2011 01:41:

  And for CI having been using Hudson for a while, any real advantages in a 
  Python / Django world for adopting something native like Trac and one of 
  the CI plugins like Bitten?

I'm kind'a partial to Morelia for BDD.

Don't be fooled by Ruby's RSpec - it's _not_ BDD. In my exalted
opinion. BDD means your customer gives you requirements as
sentences, and you make them into executable statements. That's what
Cucumber does, which Morelia learns from.

And BDD and CI are orthogonal. BDD should be part of a complete TDD
test suite, and your CI tool should run that.

I still like CruiseControl.rb - even though it has bugs when it sees
too many git integrations. Hudson had way too many features, and CCrb
mildly presumes you know how to operate its .cruise/projects folder
manually!
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Re: What makes functions special?

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
 Eric Snow wrote:

 Mostly I am just
 trying to put together more pieces of the Python puzzle.  In this case
 I was trying to find out if the optimized execution of code objects
 for functions is a part of the language or just an implementation
 detail.

 You keep using that phrase, optimized execution of code objects for
 functions, but I have no idea what that means.

 The best I can think of is that you are thinking along these lines...

 Suppose we have the source code to a function:

 def spam(n):
    return SPAM*n

 To execute this, Python currently compiles the function into a code block,
 and then when you call spam(n) elsewhere, Python executes the already
 compiled code block.


Yeah, that's pretty much it.  Is that all there is to it?  I was
saying optimized, but I guess there isn't much special optimization
going on then.  Thanks for taking the time.

-eric

 Suppose instead an implementation of Python did not pre-compile the
 function. Each time you called spam(n), the implementation would have to
 locate the source code and interpret it on the spot. Would that be
 allowed?

 If that's your question, then I would call that a Python interpreter using
 c.1960 technology (as opposed to a byte-code compiler, which all the main
 implementations currently are).

 If that were the *only* difference, then I see no reason why it wouldn't be
 allowed as an implementation of Python. A horribly slow implementation, but
 still an implementation.

 However, I doubt that would be the only difference. Given such a
 simple-minded Python interpreter, it would be hard to provide expected
 Python language features such as compiled code objects, closures, etc. You
 would have to fake them somehow. Provided you could fake them sufficiently
 well, then the lack of a byte-code compiler is just a quality of
 implementation issue.

 If that's *not* your question, them I'm stumped.




 --
 Steven

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Re: CI and BDD with Python

2011-07-09 Thread mark curphey

Thanks. FWIW I played with a bunch (Freshen, Morelia, Lettuce) over the 
last few days and Lettuce appears to be the most actively maintained and 
closest to a cucumber-like implementation IMHO. I have decided to adopt it for 
now. I played with a few CI servers but Jenkins (Hudson) is tough to beat IMHO 
but I am sure this is just my personal preference. Anyways thanks for the help. 
Cheers, Mark


On Jul 9, 2011, at 7:05 PM, Phlip wrote:

 On Jul 8, 9:36 pm, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote:
 mark curphey, 09.07.2011 01:41:
 
 And for CI having been using Hudson for a while, any real advantages in a 
 Python / Django world for adopting something native like Trac and one of 
 the CI plugins like Bitten?
 
 I'm kind'a partial to Morelia for BDD.
 
 Don't be fooled by Ruby's RSpec - it's _not_ BDD. In my exalted
 opinion. BDD means your customer gives you requirements as
 sentences, and you make them into executable statements. That's what
 Cucumber does, which Morelia learns from.
 
 And BDD and CI are orthogonal. BDD should be part of a complete TDD
 test suite, and your CI tool should run that.
 
 I still like CruiseControl.rb - even though it has bugs when it sees
 too many git integrations. Hudson had way too many features, and CCrb
 mildly presumes you know how to operate its .cruise/projects folder
 manually!
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 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: Newbie help - Programming the Semantic Web with Python

On 2011.07.09 08:32 PM, Bruce Whealton wrote:
 Hello,
 So, I got this book on Programming the Semantic Web about
 the same time I started learning Python.  The code seems to be
 developed for python 2.7 and not 3, I believe.
If you're going to learn Python 3, I suggest learning from a book that
deals with Python 3 (if there's not an updated text for the area you're
dealing with, go with something that teaches the basics). Once you have
the basics down and you know the common differences, then it will be
much easier to learn from a text that's based on Python 2 (you'll
stumble a whole lot less when trying to learn from such texts). You'll
also find some things in Python 3 that have been added to recent
versions of Python 2 that the text may not cover (e.g., the old % string
formatting syntax vs. the new format() string method).
 If I was using python 3, it would require () around the thing that is
 going to be printed, right?
That's not really the right way to think of the print() function. The
print statement has some very arbitrary syntax that could cause
unexpected behavior if simply put in the print() function. The print
function has parameters for optional behavior rather than odd syntax. In
the simplest cases, print and print() are extremely similar, but print()
has a bunch of functionality that is either difficult/annoying to
decipher (for humans, not the interpreter) or simply doesn't exist in print.
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Re: What makes functions special?

2011-07-09 Thread Carl Banks

On Saturday, July 9, 2011 2:28:58 PM UTC-7, Eric Snow wrote:
 A tracker issue [1] recently got me thinking about what makes
 functions special.  The discussion there was regarding the distinction
 between compile time (generation of .pyc files for modules and
 execution of code blocks), [function] definition time, and [function]
 execution time.  Definition time actually happens during compile time,

Nope.  Compile time and definition time are always distinct.


 but it has its own label to mark the contrast with execution time.  So
 why do functions get this special treatment?

They don't really.


[snip]
 Am I wrong about the optimization expectation?

As best as I can tell, you are asking (in a very opaque way) why the Python 
compiler even bothers to create code objects, rather than just to create a 
function object outright, because it doesn't (you think) do that for any other 
kind of object.

Two answers (one general, one specific):

1. You're looking for a pattern where it doesn't make any sense for there to be 
one.  The simple truth of the matter is different syntaxes do different things, 
and there isn't anything more to it.  A lambda expression or def statement does 
one thing; a different syntax, such as an integer constant, does another thing. 
 Neither one is treated specially; they're just different.

Consider another example: tuple syntax versus list syntax.  Python will often 
build the tuple at compile time, but it never builds a list at compile time.  
Neither one is special; it's just that tuple syntax does one thing, list 
syntax does a different thing.

2. Now that we've dispensed with the idea that Python is treating functions 
specially, let's answer your specific question.  It's not special, but still, 
why the code object?

The reason, simply, is that code objects are used for more than just functions. 
 Code objects are also used in modules, and in eval and exec statements, and 
there's one for each statement at the command line.  Code objects are also used 
directly by the interpreter when executing byte code.  A function object is 
only one of several interfaces to a code object.

A minor reason is that code objects are constant (in fact, any object that is 
built at compile time must be a constant).  However, function objects are 
mutable.

I hope that helps clear things up.


Carl Banks
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Re: CI and BDD with Python

On Jul 9, 7:39 pm, mark curphey m...@curphey.com wrote:

 Thanks. FWIW I played with a bunch (Freshen, Morelia, Lettuce)

Morelia is undermaintained because it's finished. It attaches to any
pre-existing TestCase-style test runner, hence there's nothing to
maintain!

Packages like Lettuce rebuild the entire TestCase back-end just to
change the front end. That forces its maintainer to then do the Red
Queen thing, and constantly compete with all other test runners just
to stay in place. Props for the effort, though..!
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Re: String concatenation vs. string formatting


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
 
On 2011.07.09 09:54 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
 file is a built-in (related to open).
It is? What is it?
 
 type(file)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File stdin, line 1, in module
NameError: name 'file' is not defined
 
I don't see it in the docs as a built-in function, constant or type.
 
- -- 
CPython 3.2 | Windows NT 6.1.7601.17592 | Thunderbird 5.0
PGP/GPG Public Key ID: 0xF88E034060A78FCB
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
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Re: How can I make a program automatically run once per day?

2011-07-09 Thread Benjamin Kaplan

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au wrote:

 On 10Jul2011 03:00, Alexander Kapps alex.ka...@web.de wrote:
 | On 10.07.2011 02:26, John Salerno wrote:
 | I have a script that does some stuff that I want to run every day for
 | maybe a week, or a month. So far I've been good about running it every
 | night, but is there some way (using Python, of course) that I can make
 | it automatically run at a set time each night?
 |
 | Use your operating system's facilities to run timed jobs.
 |
 | Unix/Linux: Cron jobs
 | Windows: Scheduled Tasks
 | Mac: don't know, but probably Cron too

 Yep. Macs are UNIX, BSD derived.


Macs have Cron, but Apple's trying to switch away from it. They wrote their
own framework to replace the various process-launching programs called
launchd. It uses a pretty simple XML config file to launch programs either
at startup (replacing init) or on an schedule (replacing cron).
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Morelia for BDD in Python (was: CI and BDD with Python)

Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com writes:

 On Jul 9, 7:39 pm, mark curphey m...@curphey.com wrote:

  Thanks. FWIW I played with a bunch (Freshen, Morelia, Lettuce)

 Morelia is undermaintained because it's finished. It attaches to any
 pre-existing TestCase-style test runner, hence there's nothing to
 maintain!

It looks good! But it's not yet in Debian :-(

I've filed bug report #633411 URL:http://bugs.debian.org/633411 to
call for an interested Python programmer to package it for Debian.

-- 
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  `\and you're on the way to the pertinent answer.” —Jacob |
_o__)Boronowski, _The Ascent of Man_, 1976 |
Ben Finney
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Re: String concatenation vs. string formatting

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

On 2011.07.09 09:54 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
 file is a built-in (related to open).
Also:
 Traceback (most recent call last): File
 C:\Users\Bahamut\workspace\Disillusion\disillusion.py, line 178, in
 module save_preset() File
 C:\Users\Bahamut\workspace\Disillusion\disillusion.py, line 169, in
 save_preset logger.info('Binary preset file {barf} successfully
 stored.', barf=queue[0].preset_file) File
 C:\Python32\lib\logging\__init__.py, line 1229, in info 
 self._log(INFO, msg, args, **kwargs) TypeError: _log() got an
 unexpected keyword argument 'barf'

Is barf built-in as well?

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=QkWp
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: String concatenation vs. string formatting

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160

On 2011.07.09 11:04 PM, Andrew Berg wrote:
 
 Is barf built-in as well?
 
That came off more hostile than I wanted, so I'll rephrase it:

I doubt it has anything to do with built-ins, since it fails on a
variable name that obviously does not reference a built-in.
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Re: Morelia for BDD in Python (was: CI and BDD with Python)

On Jul 9, 8:38 pm, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote:
 Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com writes:
  On Jul 9, 7:39 pm, mark curphey m...@curphey.com wrote:

   Thanks. FWIW I played with a bunch (Freshen, Morelia, Lettuce)

  Morelia is undermaintained because it's finished. It attaches to any
  pre-existing TestCase-style test runner, hence there's nothing to
  maintain!

 It looks good! But it's not yet in Debian :-(

Tx - I never added anything to a distro before! But..!

'sudo pip install morelia' just worked for me, on Ubuntu. I don't
think a python-morelia aptitude package would add any value. Such test
rigs shall never have any embedded C code or other shenanigans.

If I needed to think of a feature to add, it would be Pname notation
in the regular expressions, to then enforce the names of the matching
arguments. But this is fluff; real programmers can do without it. If I
worked closer to the center of the BDD thought leadership I'd know
what else to add...
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Re: Morelia for BDD in Python (was: CI and BDD with Python)

 --
  \        “That's the essence of science: Ask an impertinent question, |
   `\            and you're on the way to the pertinent answer.” —Jacob |
 _o__)                            Boronowski, _The Ascent of Man_, 1976 |
 Ben Finney

That nose keeps reminding me of the start of one of the Pirates of the
Caribbean movies...
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Re: Morelia for BDD in Python

Phlip phlip2...@gmail.com writes:

 'sudo pip install morelia' just worked for me, on Ubuntu.

The problem with ‘pip’ is that it's a parallel package installation that
ignores the available package management system on the OS.

That's not a fault of ‘pip’ or Setuptools or PyPI or the rest; but it's
a higher maintenance burden for the user than getting a package from the
same system that provides all the rest of their packages on the
computer.

On operating systems with poor package management, Python's distutils
and PyPI etc. are better than nothing. But on an OS like Debian with
good package management already for free software, it's a step backward
to rely on external dependencies from a disjoint package system.

 I don't think a python-morelia aptitude package would add any value.

I think it would add great value, since without it I'm unlikely to
bother using Morelia in any project. The maintenance burden is too high
to keep adding dependencies that come from a distinct dependency system
outside my OS.

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  `\  over here, looking through your stuff.” —Jack Handey |
_o__)  |
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[issue7229] Manual entry for time.daylight can be misleading

2011-07-09 Thread Kenyon Ralph


Changes by Kenyon Ralph ken...@kenyonralph.com:


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[issue12470] Fix cutpaste typo in test_shutil


Roundup Robot devnull@devnull added the comment:

New changeset f92bf428c647 by Senthil Kumaran in branch '3.2':
Fix closes issue issue12470 - check for utime for the skipUnless condition.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/f92bf428c647

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[issue12438] IDLE problem displaying warning message


Roundup Robot devnull@devnull added the comment:

New changeset 7dd9313c300b by Senthil Kumaran in branch '3.2':
Fix closes issue12438  - idlelib.PyShell's showformatwarning method was passing 
an incorrect arg.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/7dd9313c300b

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[issue12429] test_io.check_interrupted_write() sporadic failures on FreeBSD 6 on Python 2.7/3.2


Roundup Robot devnull@devnull added the comment:

New changeset ad16e4a0ef80 by Victor Stinner in branch '3.2':
Issue #12429: Skip interrupted write tests on FreeBSD = 7
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/ad16e4a0ef80

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[issue12486] tokenize module should have a unicode API

2011-07-09 Thread STINNER Victor


STINNER Victor victor.stin...@haypocalc.com added the comment:

The compiler has a PyCF_SOURCE_IS_UTF8 flag: see compile() builtin. The parser 
has a flag to ignore the coding cookie: PyPARSE_IGNORE_COOKIE.

Patch tokenize to support Unicode is simple: use PyCF_SOURCE_IS_UTF8 and/or 
PyPARSE_IGNORE_COOKIE flags and encode the strings to UTF-8.

Rewrite the parser to work directly on Unicode is much more complex and I don't 
think that we need that.

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[issue12510] IDLE get_the_calltip mishandles raw strings

2011-07-09 Thread Ned Deily


Ned Deily n...@acm.org added the comment:

The problem is easily reproducible.  Although it shouldn't give that error (and 
that can be fixed), it seems to me that IDLE should not be trying to give a 
calltip in that context. What it is trying to do is display the __doc__ 
attribute of the string but the __doc__ is really for the str() constructor:

 'a'.__doc__
str(string[, encoding[, errors]]) - str\n\nCreate a new string object from 
the given encoded string.\nencoding defaults to the current default string 
encoding.\nerrors can be 'strict', 'replace' or 'ignore' and defaults to 
'strict'.

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[issue12522] Implement `os.startfile` under Linux and Mac

2011-07-09 Thread Ram Rachum


New submission from Ram Rachum cool...@cool-rr.com:

I want to use `os.startfile` to open a folder in Explorer/Nautilus/Finder. The 
documentation says that it's only implemented on Windows:

http://docs.python.org/dev/library/os.html#os.startfile

See discussion on Python-ideas here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/python-ideas/LL0SavbKrEA


Is there a good reason why `os.startfile` is implemented only on Windows?

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messages: 140057
nosy: cool-RR
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Implement `os.startfile` under Linux and Mac
versions: Python 3.3

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[issue12522] Implement `os.startfile` under Linux and Mac

2011-07-09 Thread Ross Lagerwall


Ross Lagerwall rosslagerw...@gmail.com added the comment:

I think this is a duplicate of #3177.

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[issue3177] implement os.startfile on posix and MacOSX

2011-07-09 Thread Ross Lagerwall


Ross Lagerwall rosslagerw...@gmail.com added the comment:

Closed #12522 as a duplicate.

It contains a link to a discussion on python-ideas requesting the feature.

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[issue3177] implement os.startfile on posix and MacOSX

2011-07-09 Thread Ram Rachum


Changes by Ram Rachum cool...@cool-rr.com:


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[issue12418] python should inherit the library search path from the compiler for stdlib extensions

2011-07-09 Thread Matthias Klose


Matthias Klose d...@debian.org added the comment:

I don't think so. But maybe it would be enough to special case GCC as a unix 
compiler? At least there are already autoconf checks trying to detect gcc.

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[issue12326] Linux 3: tests should avoid using sys.platform == 'linux2'

2011-07-09 Thread Matthias Klose


Matthias Klose d...@debian.org added the comment:

while this is sorted out, I propose to apply the following workaround not to 
introduce `linux3', at least for the branches:

--- a/configure.in  2011-06-11 17:46:28.0 +0200
+++ b/configure.in  2011-06-19 22:32:05.852934453 +0200
@@ -293,6 +293,7 @@
MACHDEP=$ac_md_system$ac_md_release
 
case $MACHDEP in
+   linux3) MACHDEP=linux2;;
cygwin*) MACHDEP=cygwin;;
darwin*) MACHDEP=darwin;;
atheos*) MACHDEP=atheos;;

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[issue12326] Linux 3: tests should avoid using sys.platform == 'linux2'

2011-07-09 Thread Antoine Pitrou


Antoine Pitrou pit...@free.fr added the comment:

 while this is sorted out, I propose to apply the following workaround
 not to introduce `linux3', at least for the branches:

It's too late, since existing versions won't have the patch and will
show linux3 when the kernel gets upgraded.

I think we'd better bite the bullet and accept the linux3 value.

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[issue12326] Linux 3: tests should avoid using sys.platform == 'linux2'

2011-07-09 Thread Matthias Klose


Matthias Klose d...@debian.org added the comment:

about the plat-*/ files:

they are even wrong for some linux architectures, because some constants like 
the DLFCN constants have different values depending on the 
platform/architecture (can't find the issue proposing architecture dependent 
plat-linux2-arch directories).

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[issue12326] Linux 3: tests should avoid using sys.platform == 'linux2'


Roundup Robot devnull@devnull added the comment:

New changeset 53d2d30d6ca0 by Antoine Pitrou in branch '2.7':
Issue #12326: document the recommended idiom for checking sys.platform on Unix 
systems.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/53d2d30d6ca0

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[issue12326] Linux 3: tests should avoid using sys.platform == 'linux2'


Roundup Robot devnull@devnull added the comment:

New changeset 8bc9dbc61ba6 by Antoine Pitrou in branch '3.2':
Issue #12326: document the recommended idiom for checking sys.platform on Unix 
systems.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/8bc9dbc61ba6

New changeset 19b3b2d93a63 by Antoine Pitrou in branch 'default':
Issue #12326: document the recommended idiom for checking sys.platform on Unix 
systems.
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/19b3b2d93a63

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[issue12519] Call next version 3.3.0


Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

Benjamin committed 2ebcbdca0dee for patchlevel.h, but idlever, 
distutils.__init__ and others are not edited yet.

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[issue12519] Call next version 3.3.0

2011-07-09 Thread Benjamin Peterson


Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org added the comment:

2011/7/9 Éric Araujo rep...@bugs.python.org:

 Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

 Benjamin committed 2ebcbdca0dee for patchlevel.h, but idlever, 
 distutils.__init__ and others are not edited yet.

I don't care that much. When the tree is bumped to 3.0.0a1, those'll be fixed.

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[issue12519] Call next version 3.3.0


Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

Then this is done.

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[issue8639] Allow callable objects in inspect.getargspec


Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

Adding to nosy the developers who last touched inspect.

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[issue8639] Allow callable objects in inspect.getargspec


Changes by Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org:


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[issue5420] Queue deprecation warning patch


Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

I think the docstrings of empty and full should mention they’re obsolete, to 
make users of pydoc or other tools aware of the deprecation before they write 
code using them.

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[issue11339] annotation for class being defined


Changes by Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org:


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[issue1553375] Add traceback.print_full_exception()


Changes by Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org:


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[issue11365] Integrate Buildroot patches (cross-compilation)


Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org added the comment:

No, they’re not the same.

See also my listing of (most of the) cross-compile patches: 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-March/110099.html

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[issue11682] PEP 380 reference implementation for 3.3

2011-07-09 Thread Nick Coghlan


Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com added the comment:

Once again got close to committing this, but then realised it is missing all 
the necessary documentation updates for a core language change.

I have uploaded a patch that includes all the changes from Bitbucket as well as 
the subsequent fixes to avoid modifying sys.stdout when the tests are run and 
to comply with the whitespace rules set up in the source control hooks (the 
ACKS, NEWS and a placeholder in whatsnew are also included).

What's missing are updates to at least:

http://docs.python.org/dev/tutorial/classes.html#generators
(a simple example showing delegation should suffice there)

http://docs.python.org/dev/reference/simple_stmts.html#the-yield-statement
http://docs.python.org/dev/reference/expressions.html#grammar-token-yield_expression
http://docs.python.org/dev/reference/simple_stmts.html#the-return-statement
(the language reference must be updated for a post PEP 380 world)

There are likely other places that should also be updated, but these are the 
critical ones needed before the patch can be included.

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file22616/pep380-missing-docs.diff

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[issue8639] Allow callable objects in inspect.getargspec

2011-07-09 Thread Daniel Urban


Changes by Daniel Urban urban.dani...@gmail.com:


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[issue8639] Allow callable objects in inspect.getargspec


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue11339] annotation for class being defined


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue1294232] Error in metaclass search order


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue5996] abstract class instantiable when subclassing dict


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue12486] tokenize module should have a unicode API


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue10403] Use member consistently


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue12491] Update glossary documentation for the term 'attribute'


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue11549] Build-out an AST optimizer, moving some functionality out of the peephole optimizer


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue2377] Replace import w/ importlib.import


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue12374] Execution model should explain compile vs definition vs execution time


Changes by Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com:


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[issue11435] Links to source code should now point to hg repo