PySide and Shiboken 1.2 released
I'm happy to announce that PySide and Shiboken version 1.2 have been released. PySide is a community supported LGPL wrapper for the Qt libraries and Shiboken is a C++ wrapping tool used by PySide. Version 1.2 contains numerous stability fixes, improved Windows installation via easy_install, and the shiboken module is now correctly installed. The pypi page for PySide is at http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PySide It can be installed via easy_install, pip and windows installer. The source tarballs can be found at: PySide: http://download.qt-project.org/official_releases/pyside/pyside-qt4.8+1.2.0.tar.bz2 Shiboken: http://download.qt-project.org/official_releases/pyside/shiboken-1.2.0.tar.bz2 Questions / feedback may be sent to the pyside mailing list at pys...@qt-project.org Thanks: Paulo Alcantara John Cummings Robin Dunn John Ehresman Roman Lacko Stefan Landvogt Hugo Parente Lima Sébastien Sablé Nathan Smith Matthew Woehlke -- John Ehresman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list Support the Python Software Foundation: http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
Re: Best Scripting Language for Embedded Work?
David T. Ashley dash...@gmail.com writes: We develop embedded software for 32-bit micros using Windows as the development platform. I'll mostly ignore the Windows qualifier. If you're stuck with Windows CE or similar, then ask them what they suggest. If you're developing on Windows and deploy on something else (typically, some form of linux), then, well, think again. We are seeking a general purpose scripting language to automate certain tasks, like cleaning out certain directories of certain types of files in preparation for ZIP'ing, generating certain source files automatically, etc. That's exactly what shells are for. They are basically command interpreters providing a nice interface to various system utilities. Busybox is a variant where utilities are actually compiled in, and where you can compile your own stuff in as well. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busybox a)Should be able to compile the script interpreter as a monolithic executable (no .DLL dependencies, etc.) for easy versioning and distribution of the script interpreter. A fairly common requirement for shells. b)Should be extensible, in that one could add commands or library functions to the script interpreter in C (for efficiency), and the whole script interpreter could again consist of a single executable with no other dependencies. It looks like busybox is able to do this (the faq is fairly precise in implementation details---I've never done this but it looks kind of trivial). c)Should be able to spawn compilers and capture the output, do file I/O, and all the other minor expected stuff. Trivial for any shell, and probably for any scripting language. d)Graphical capability would be nice. That's a large can of worms. I don't know any small, self-contained interpreter that includes a full-featured GUI framework. These things usually end up in shared libs, which you explicitely want to avoid... I know that Tcl/Tk would do all of the above, but what about Python? Any other alternatives? Most scripting languages have evolved way beyond scripting tasks, and usually rely on a fairly extensive set of libraries (either shared libraries or collection of modules). I haven't looked at tcl/tk since I know python, but they can probable be classified in the same category. Of course, expect python supporters to... support python (which, btw, interfaces with tk). Another contender is lua, which has a good reputation regarding embeddability. The answer really depends on your use case. I think you will be better off if you keep the GUI aspect separated from the rest. Here is stackoverflow entry discussing the use guis for (unix) shell scripts: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/928019/how-to-make-a-gui-for-bash-scripts (via google linux shell script gui). -- Alain. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Babel i18n package has new maintainers
Hi, I've been looking for a Python package for formatting international dates, numbers and monetary values in a web context for a couple of days now, but the only thing that I could find that looked suitable at first sight was the Babel package, of which the last release dates back two years, with stale localisation data and missing Py3 support. http://pythonhosted.org/Babel https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Babel Now, after searching a bit more, I found that Armin Ronacher and Alex Morega have recently taken over that package. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/python-babel/WImO1u-Q8GA/j62ABuuwTpAJ They're now developing the code on github and porting it to Py3.3. https://github.com/mitsuhiko/babel Since it took me quite a while to figure this out, I thought I'd post this here to make others aware of it. I think it's a very important tool to have, and I'm sure Armin and Alex can use some help and testing by others to get a new release out. There's always stuff like reading through and updating the documentation, finding bugs, testing with your existing code base, etc., that everyone can help with. Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best Scripting Language for Embedded Work?
Hi David, you have multi-posted this to comp.lang.tcl. Please don't do that - use crossposting and a proper follow-up (as I did now) Am 10.07.13 03:29, schrieb David T. Ashley: We develop embedded software for 32-bit micros using Windows as the development platform. Robert's answer made me hesitate - what exactly is your platform? Are you writing the scripts for the embedded platform, or for Windows, or does the embedded controller run Windows RT or something like this? We are seeking a general purpose scripting language to automate certain tasks, like cleaning out certain directories of certain types of files in preparation for ZIP'ing, generating certain source files automatically, etc. Selection criteria: a)Should be able to compile the script interpreter as a monolithic executable (no .DLL dependencies, etc.) for easy versioning and distribution of the script interpreter. (Note that I'm not asking that the script be a single executable, just the interpreter. To run a script you'd need both the script and the interpreter. The script would be a text file, and the interpreter would be a single .EXE.) You are referring to tclkits. Yes, it's indeed possible to compile Tcl into a statically linked binary, and C extension packages can be statically linked, too. But tclkits are cheating: There are some files like the standard library (i.e. init.tcl, the clock command etc., unicode encondings...) which are packed into a database and attached to the tclkit. The tclkit then opens itself via the file system to read these files. I don't know if this is possible in a typical embedded system. If you are really talking about Windows, no issue. Python has similar capabilities, look for pyinstaller or py2exe. b)Should be extensible, in that one could add commands or library functions to the script interpreter in C (for efficiency), and the whole script interpreter could again consist of a single executable with no other dependencies. (Note that I'm not asking that the script be a single executable, just the interpreter. To run a script you'd need both the script and the interpreter. The script would be a text file, and the interpreter would be a single .EXE.) That is possible in Tcl using static packages. In Python I don't know, but I think it should be possible. c)Should be able to spawn compilers and capture the output, do file I/O, and all the other minor expected stuff. no real issue d)Graphical capability would be nice. For GUI Python relies on either Tcl/Tk, wxwidgets, QT, GTK... I think it is possible to assemble these into a packaged binary, too. However it will be a rather large thing in the end. I know that Tcl/Tk would do all of the above, but what about Python? Any other alternatives? I think Tcl/Tk is a really good match, especially if you are trying to do GUI, which is very easy there. Also most scripting stuff is available out of the box. Another option might be Lua http://www.lua.org/ Very compact (a static binary is about ~200K), clean synatx, relatively fast. OTOH, the standard library is of course not so extensive as for Tcl or Python. Bash is also an option, because it is some kind of standard for scripting. But on Windows it seems alien and you'd need something like MobaXTerm to get it into a single file. Christian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best Scripting Language for Embedded Work?
Christian Gollwitzer, 10.07.2013 09:03: http://www.lua.org/ Very compact (a static binary is about ~200K), clean synatx, relatively fast. OTOH, the standard library is of course not so extensive as for Tcl or Python. not so extensive is a rather bold understatement. ISTM that most projects that use Lua build their own eco-system around it, or integrate Lua into their existing eco-system, with the obvious drawbacks for code reuse across different projects and user bases. Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: crack a router passcode
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:59 AM, Dave Angel da...@davea.name wrote: On 07/09/2013 12:06 PM, Ferrous Cranus wrote: SNIP What is the reason of a spambot? Spam a usenet forum to gain what? Spam is unsolicited advertising. A bot is a robot, or other automated device. So Spambots on a usenet newsgroup send apparently innocent questions that also contain links to their websites, or the trash they're pushing. Somebody here claimed that the trash got stripped from the message before it went out to us. Yeah. The bottom of the original message had these words: used computers in chennai. The most likely reason for that is that there was an a href around that, which got stripped at some point (maybe the post got converted from HTML to plain text somewhere). So these postings are being approximately useless, and will hopefully eventually stop. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Editor Ergonomics [was: Important features for editors]
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Giorgos Tzampanakis
giorgos.tzampana...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2013-07-06, Skip Montanaro wrote:
* movement between the mouse and the keyboard
Avoid at all costs. Use an editor that never needs the mouse (emacs or
vim).
I don't use vim often, but for Emacs, I think mouse is often needed:
* It is especially handy for selecting and deleting text.
* Mouse wheel gives you fine control. You can scroll by a few lines,
but scroll-{up, down}-command can't. For programmers working on
source code, this is especially nice.
* There is mouse3.el[fn:1], which is very convenient.
Footnotes:
[fn:1] http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/mouse3.el
--
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Help with 'self' and 'set_usage'
On Tuesday, 9 July 2013 18:03:41 UTC+1, L O'Shea wrote: Hi all, I'm interning and have been given the job of extending a program that has been written by someone else. I've never used Python before so it's a bit of a struggle but I've got to say I'm loving the language so far. In on of the scripts there is def set_usage(self,s): self.usage_str = s Could anyone shed some light on this? I can't find mention of this anywhere in any Python documentation or anywhere else in the code where usage_str might be defined. Can you just create variables in that object by writing self.name = david self.hobby = fishing?? If this is any help it is used later in the program (or in other scripts) like prog.set_usage(%prog command [options] ) Thanks for your help, I have spent a good while googling python docs, code snippets and reading through a Python book I have on my desk to no avail. Cheers in advance. Thanks for the advice everyone that was really helpful! Gotta love the USA/UK time difference I can post a question here at the end of the day and it be answered by morning - Not that it took any of you very long! Stay tuned for more Python questions :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:26:19 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. Of course not, because if it did -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA You aren’t supposed to do squat about it. I just wanted to mention it to the Python evangelists, who need to see the light. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA You aren’t supposed to do squat about it. I just wanted to mention it to the Python evangelists, who need to see the light. Your post hits me squarely between the eyes, leaving an Uhh?-shaped hole. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:26:19 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. Of course not, because if it did Because if it did what? :p -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:26:19 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. Of course not, because if it did Because if it did what? :p Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Babel i18n package has new maintainers
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:55:46 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote: Hi, I've been looking for a Python package for formatting international dates, numbers and monetary values [...] https://github.com/mitsuhiko/babel Since it took me quite a while to figure this out, I thought I'd post this here to make others aware of it. Thanks Stefan, it's good to see informative posts about Python packages. I personally don't need it, but I'll keep it in mind for the future. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA I fear you don’t even know what a regular expression is. Then this of course won’t affect you whatsoever. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: hex dump w/ or w/out utf-8 chars
For those who are interested. The official proposal request for the encoding of the Latin uppercase letter Sharp S in ISO/IEC 10646; DIN (The German Institute for Standardization) proposal is available on the web. A pdf with the rationale. I do not remember from where I got it, probably from a German web site. Fonts: I'm observing the inclusion of this glyph since years. More and more fonts are supporting it. Available in many fonts, it is suprisingly not available in Cambria (at least the version I'm using). STIX does not includes it, it has been requested. Ditto, for the Latin Modern, the default bundle of fonts for the Unicode TeX engines. Last but not least, Python. Thanks to the Flexible String Representation, it is not necessary to mention the disastrous, erratic behaviour of Python, when processing text containing it. It's more than clear, a serious user willing to process the contain of 'DER GROẞE DUDEN' (a reference German dictionary) will be better served by using something else. The irony is that this Flexible String Representation has been created by a German. jmf -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA You aren’t supposed to do squat about it. I just wanted to mention it to the Python evangelists, who need to see the light. Your post hits me squarely between the eyes, leaving an Uhh?-shaped hole. ChrisA I fear you don’t even know what a regular expression is. Then this will of course not affect you. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:26:19 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. Of course not, because if it did Because if it did what? :p Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:26:19 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. Of course not, because if it did Because if it did what? :p Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Have you ever compared the regular expression performance between Perl and Python? If not, keep quiet. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA You aren’t supposed to do squat about it. I just wanted to mention it to the Python evangelists, who need to see the light. It's well known that regular expressions are slow. I wouldn't know how they compare to Perl, which I don't use. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. The same with Unicode. We hate French people, you see, and so in an effort to drive everyone back to ASCII-only text, Python 3.3 introduces some memory optimizations that ensures that Unicode strings work correctly and are up to four times smaller than they used to be. You should get together with jmfauth, who has discovered our dastardly plot and keeps posting benchmarks showing how on carefully contrived micro- benchmarks using a beta version of Python 3.3, non-ASCII string operations can be marginally slower than in 3.2. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. I cannot imagine why he would have done that. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Recursive class | can you modify self directly?
I didn't do a good job of explaining it cos I didn't want it to be a TLDR; but I could've added a little more. To clarify: Expr is just a way to represent simple arithmetic expressions for a calculator. Because the expression has to be modified and built over time, and evaluated from left to right and not by operator precedence, I thought it would be simpler to do it this way. Say the calculation in the calculator is currently at: 1 + 2 * 3 Now lets expand it out to see how it gets to this point. dial 1: (1) x = Expr(1) # the base case dial +: ((1) + ) x = Expr(x, '+') dial 2: ((1) + 2)x.val = 2 dial *: (((1) + 2) + ) x = Expr(x, '+') dial 3: (((1) + 2) + 3) x.val = 3 I think it's called 'binary tree' but not entirely sure if that's correct. So I think understand what you guys are saying now. There is the name x and the class instance (the object) which exists somewhere in memory that x points to. self is just another name that points to the same object (not self in general but the argument passed to the self parameter when a method is called). However if the code inside the method reassigns self to some other object, it doesn't change the fact that x still refers to the original object. So self is just a local variable (an argument). The name self has no relevance to to the name x other than the fact that they point to the same object. So reassigning self has no effect on x. But modifying the object that self points to, does affect x because it points to the same object. Is this correct? So when you call x.somemethod() it's not passing x as the self argument, it's actually passing the object that x points to as the self argument. And that object has know knowledge of the fact that x points to it, or does it? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA I fear you don’t even know what a regular expression is. Then this of course won’t affect you whatsoever. I know what regular expressions are. I've used them in Perl, PHP, JavaScript, Python, C++, Pike, and numerous text editors (which may have been backed by one of the above languages, or may have been something else). Doesn't change the fact that I have no idea what the significance is of your post. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA I fear you don’t even know what a regular expression is. Then this of course won’t affect you whatsoever. Troll. A quick search of my Gmail archives turns up 18 threads in which Chris has used the phrase regular expression. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Recursive class | can you modify self directly?
On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:20:47 AM UTC+2, Ian wrote:
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote:
If you actually want to modify the current object, you would need to
do something like:
def expand(self):
import copy
self.expr = Expr(self.expr, self.op, self.val)
self.op = choice('+-*/')
self.val = choice('12345')
Minus the import copy. I modified the code before sending and
forgot to remove that.
Yes! This is exactly it. Thanks :)
--
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Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA I fear you don’t even know what a regular expression is. Then this of course won’t affect you whatsoever. I know what regular expressions are. I've used them in Perl, PHP, JavaScript, Python, C++, Pike, and numerous text editors (which may have been backed by one of the above languages, or may have been something else). Doesn't change the fact that I have no idea what the significance is of your post. ChrisA You do? And you haven't noticed the inferior performance of regular expressions in Python compared to Perl? Then you obviously haven't used them a lot. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. ChrisA I fear you don’t even know what a regular expression is. Then this of course won’t affect you whatsoever. Troll. A quick search of my Gmail archives turns up 18 threads in which Chris has used the phrase regular expression. Not a troll. It's just hard to convince Python users that their beloved language would have inferior regular expression performance to Perl. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. I don't know what you mean by that, but since the joke appears to have flown over your head, I'll explain it. Steven's pos was clearly meant to be the word posted, before his sentence got cut off by the Python Secret Underground. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. I don't know what you mean by that, but since the joke appears to have flown over your head, I'll explain it. Steven's pos was clearly meant to be the word posted, before his sentence got cut off by the Python Secret Underground. Being snotty, are we? -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
I know what regular expressions are. I've used them in Perl, PHP,
JavaScript, Python, C++, Pike, and numerous text editors (which may
have been backed by one of the above languages, or may have been
something else). Doesn't change the fact that I have no idea what the
significance is of your post.
ChrisA
You do? And you haven't noticed the inferior performance of regular
expressions in Python compared to Perl? Then you obviously haven't
used them a lot.
That would be correct. Why have I not used them all that much? Because
Python has way better ways of doing many things. Regexps are
notoriously hard to debug, largely because a nonmatching regex can't
give much information about _where_ it failed to match, and when I
parse strings, it's more often with (s)scanf notation instead - stuff
like this (Pike example as Python doesn't, afaik, have scanf support):
data=Hello, world! I am number 42.;
sscanf(data,Hello, %s! I am number %d.,foo,x);
(3) Result: 2
foo;
(4) Result: world
x;
(5) Result: 42
Or a more complicated example:
sscanf(Stdio.File(/proc/meminfo)-read(),%{%s: %d%*s\n%},array data);
mapping meminfo=(mapping)data;
That builds up a mapping (Pike terminology for what Python calls a
dict) with the important information out of /proc/meminfo, something
like this:
([
MemTotal: 2026144,
MemFree: 627652,
Buffers: 183572,
Cached: 380724,
. etc etc
])
So, no. I haven't figured out that Perl's regular expressions
outperform Python's or Pike's or SciTE's, because I simply don't need
them all that much. With sscanf, I can at least get a partial match,
which tells me where to look for the problem.
ChrisA
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
WiFi problems with iPhone 4
Hi, I have Been looking into it and I can't find anything. My son's iPhone 4 ( iOS 6), according to him, is on and off from our wifi all by itself. Basically, when hé goes on YouTube before 8 am it is on 3G, even if we have wifi on. And the signal is strong enough. Is there a setting That he could have used, unknowingly or not, That can do this? - used iphone -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/WiFi-problems-with-iPhone-4-tp5024342.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Have you ever compared the regular expression performance between Perl and Python? If not, keep quiet. I think I can see why you were suspended. You and jmf should have a lot of fun together, I think. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Buying a used iPhone 5
I'm planning on buying a used ATT iPhone 5 off of craigslist, and i've been reading on how some people sell their iPhones to people and later on blacklisting it, screwing the buyer over, or how people are mistakenly buying already blacklisted iPhones. I was wondering if there's a way I can prevent this? I was thinking of meeting at an ATT store to make sure it's not blacklisted and to make sure it's not connected to any account that could black list it. Would that be a good idea? - used iphone -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/Buying-a-used-iPhone-5-tp5024345.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 10:12, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. I don't know what you mean by that, but since the joke appears to have flown over your head, I'll explain it. Steven's pos was clearly mea What? I don't understand. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
iTunes not detecting iPhone
I just received a used iPhone I purchased on Amazon. I took the phone out of the box and turned it on. The Apple logo appeared, then a connect to iTunes screen appeared, with the text No SIM card installed over the connect to iTunes graphic. I installed my SIM (which I know works, as I just pulled it from my other iPhone), but have a very weak signal... but that's not my issue right now. After putting in my SIM, I connect my cable to my PC and opened iTunes. Then I connected the new iPhone to the cable and waited for iTunes to detect it. Nothing. I tried shutting down iTunes and restarting, shutting down and restarting the phone... still nothing. - used iphone -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/iTunes-not-detecting-iPhone-tp5024343.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Iphone 3gs Problem
I have a problem with my iPhone 3gs, It was Jailbreaked with cydia and then one day it stoped working, all it says is connect to itunes, and when I connect it to Itunes it say restore iphone, when I do that it get stuck on waiting for iphone, it have been stuck on that for 6 hours without doing anything so I dont know what to do! I realy need help please! - used iphone -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/Iphone-3gs-Problem-tp5024344.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 2013-07-10 10:52, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:12, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. I don't know what you mean by that, but since the joke appears to have flown over your head, I'll explain it. Steven's pos was clearly mea What? I don't understand. Look, it's perfectly obvi -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 08:55, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Unjustified Insult. [anumuson from Stack Overflow] has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Unjustified Insult. Whilst I don't normally respond to trolls, I'm actually curious. Do you have any non-trivial, properly benchmarked real-world examples that this affects, remembering to use full Unicode support in Perl (as Python has it by default)? Remember to try on both major CPython versions, and PyPy -- all of which are in large-scale usage. Remember not just to use the builtin re module, as most people also use https://pypi.python.org/pypi/regex and https://code.google.com/p/re2/ when they are appropriate, so pathological cases for re aren't actually a concern anyone cares about. If you actually can satisfy these basic standards for a comparison (as I'm sure any competent person with so much bravo could) I'd be willing to converse with you. I'd like to see these results where Python compares as extremely slow. Note that, by your own wording, a 30% drop is irrelevant. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Op 10-07-13 11:03, Mats Peterson schreef: Not a troll. It's just hard to convince Python users that their beloved language would have inferior regular expression performance to Perl. All right, you have convinced me. Now what? Why should I care? -- Antoon Pardon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Google Groups is writing about your recently sent mail to Joshua Landau. Unfortunately this address has been discontinued from usage for the foreseeable future. The sent message is displayed below: On 10 July 2013 12:08, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-07-10 10:52, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:12, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:46 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. I don't know what you mean by that, but since the joke appears to have flown over your head, I'll explain it. Steven's pos was clearly mea What? I don't understand. Look, it's perfectly obvi -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. The same with Unicode. We hate French people, you see, and so in an effort to drive everyone back to ASCII-only text, Python 3.3 introduces some memory optimizations that ensures that Unicode strings work correctly and are up to four times smaller than they used to be. You should get together with jmfauth, who has discovered our dastardly plot and keeps posting benchmarks showing how on carefully contrived micro- benchmarks using a beta version of Python 3.3, non-ASCII string operations can be marginally slower than in 3.2. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. I cannot imagine why he would have done that. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list :-) Thank you. Sent from a Galaxy far far away-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
... meant to be the word posted, before his sentence got cut off by the Python Secret Underground. Argh! That which shall not be named! Please, for the sake of all that is right, please only use the initials, PS -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Op Wed, 10 Jul 2013 12:12:10 +0100, schreef Joshua Landau: snip Do you have any non-trivial, properly benchmarked real-world examples that this affects, remembering to use full Unicode support in Perl (as Python has it by default)? Indeed, as Joshua says, instead of going through all the effort to talk about it, why don't you show us that Python is slower in regexs than perl. That's at least relevant bandwdith. Next, if Python is slower, there might be ways to improve the performance. Last, if there is a SPU (Secret Python Underground), I want to j -- Benedict Verheyen Debian, Python and Django user GnuPG Public Key 0x712CBB8D -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Antoon Pardon antoon.par...@rece.vub.ac.be wrote: Op 10-07-13 11:03, Mats Peterson schreef: Not a troll. It's just hard to convince Python users that their beloved language would have inferior regular expression performance to Perl. All right, you have convinced me. Now what? Why should I care? Right. Why should you. And who cares about you? Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 13:01, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Antoon Pardon antoon.par...@rece.vub.ac.be wrote: Op 10-07-13 11:03, Mats Peterson schreef: Not a troll. It's just hard to convince Python users that their beloved language would have inferior regular expression performance to Perl. All right, you have convinced me. Now what? Why should I care? Right. Why should you. And who cares about you? Not the Python Se -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Joshua Landau jos...@landau.ws wrote: On 10 July 2013 08:55, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Unjustified Insult. [anumuson from Stack Overflow] has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Unjustified Insult. Whilst I don't normally respond to trolls, I'm actually curious. Do you have any non-trivial, properly benchmarked real-world examples that this affects, remembering to use full Unicode support in Perl (as Python has it by default)? Remember to try on both major CPython versions, and PyPy -- all of which are in large-scale usage. Remember not just to use the builtin re module, as most people also use https://pypi.python.org/pypi/regex and https://code.google.com/p/re2/ when they are appropriate, so pathological cases for re aren't actually a concern anyone cares about. If you actually can satisfy these basic standards for a comparison (as I'm sure any competent person with so much bravo could) I'd be willing to converse with you. I'd like to see these results where Python compares as extremely slow. Note that, by your own wording, a 30% drop is irrelevant. I haven't provided a real-world example, since I expect you Python Einsteins to be able do an A/B test between Python and Perl yourselves (provided you know Perl, of course, which I'm afraid is not always the case). And why would I use any custom version of Python, when I don't have to do that with Perl? Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. The same with Unicode. We hate French people, you see, and so in an effort to drive everyone back to ASCII-only text, Python 3.3 introduces some memory optimizations that ensures that Unicode strings work correctly and are up to four times smaller than they used to be. You should get together with jmfauth, who has discovered our dastardly plot and keeps posting benchmarks showing how on carefully contrived micro- benchmarks using a beta version of Python 3.3, non-ASCII string operations can be marginally slower than in 3.2. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. I cannot imagine why he would have done that. You're obviously trying hard to be funny. It fails miserably. Mats -- Mats Peterson http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. The same with Unicode. We hate French people, you see, and so in an effort to drive everyone back to ASCII-only text, Python 3.3 introduces some memory optimizations that ensures that Unicode strings work correctly and are up to four times smaller than they used to be. You should get together with jmfauth, who has discovered our dastardly plot and keeps posting benchmarks showing how on carefully contrived micro- benchmarks using a beta version of Python 3.3, non-ASCII string operations can be marginally slower than in 3.2. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. I cannot imagine why he would have done that. You're obviously trying hard to be funny. It fails miserably. Either that or it's funny only to other Australians. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Turn off Genius on iPhone
How do I turn off the genius button on the iPhone ? I keep hitting it whenever I want to scrub to the middle of through a song. It's pretty annoying. - used iphone -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/Turn-off-Genius-on-iPhone-tp5024341.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 12:14, Antoon Pardon antoon.par...@rece.vub.ac.be wrote: Op 10-07-13 11:03, Mats Peterson schreef: Not a troll. It's just hard to convince Python users that their beloved language would have inferior regular expression performance to Perl. All right, you have convinced me. Now what? Why should I care? Isn't it obvious? Regex-based macros! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
I know what regular expressions are. I've used them in Perl, PHP,
JavaScript, Python, C++, Pike, and numerous text editors (which may
have been backed by one of the above languages, or may have been
something else). Doesn't change the fact that I have no idea what the
significance is of your post.
ChrisA
You do? And you haven't noticed the inferior performance of regular
expressions in Python compared to Perl? Then you obviously haven't
used them a lot.
That would be correct. Why have I not used them all that much? Because
Python has way better ways of doing many things. Regexps are
notoriously hard to debug, largely because a nonmatching regex can't
give much information about _where_ it failed to match, and when I
parse strings, it's more often with (s)scanf notation instead - stuff
like this (Pike example as Python doesn't, afaik, have scanf support):
data=Hello, world! I am number 42.;
sscanf(data,Hello, %s! I am number %d.,foo,x);
(3) Result: 2
foo;
(4) Result: world
x;
(5) Result: 42
Or a more complicated example:
sscanf(Stdio.File(/proc/meminfo)-read(),%{%s: %d%*s\n%},array data);
mapping meminfo=(mapping)data;
That builds up a mapping (Pike terminology for what Python calls a
dict) with the important information out of /proc/meminfo, something
like this:
([
MemTotal: 2026144,
MemFree: 627652,
Buffers: 183572,
Cached: 380724,
. etc etc
])
So, no. I haven't figured out that Perl's regular expressions
outperform Python's or Pike's or SciTE's, because I simply don't need
them all that much. With sscanf, I can at least get a partial match,
which tells me where to look for the problem.
ChrisA
You're showing by these examples what regular expressions mean to you.
Mats
--
Mats Peterson
http://alicja.homelinux.com/~mats/
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Either that or it's funny only to other Australians. Or the Dutch. S -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10/07/2013 14:22, Chris Angelico wrote: Either that or it's funny only to other Australians. ChrisA As a South African, I found it funny too, but then again, we often get confused. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 13:35, Skip Montanaro s...@pobox.com wrote: Either that or it's funny only to other Australians. Or the Dutch. Or us Brits. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 7:39 AM, Joshua Landau jos...@landau.ws wrote: On 10 July 2013 13:35, Skip Montanaro s...@pobox.com wrote: Either that or it's funny only to other Australians. Or the Dutch. Or us Brits. Hells bells... It appears everyone found it funny except the trolls. S -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
Op Wed, 10 Jul 2013 12:06:06 +, schreef Mats Peterson: I haven't provided a real-world example, since I expect you Python Einsteins to be able do an A/B test between Python and Perl yourselves (provided you know Perl, of course, which I'm afraid is not always the case). I don't know perl so I can't compare. And why would I use any custom version of Python, when I don't have to do that with Perl? If you're able to do that with Perl, and Perl is faster that Python, why would you want to bother with Python? Seems like you already have a fast alternative you like. -- Benedict Verheyen Debian, Python and Django user GnuPG Public Key 0x712CBB8D -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Prime number generator
And now for something completely different.
I knocked together a prime number generator, just for the fun of it,
that works like a Sieve of Eratosthenes but unbounded. It keeps track
of all known primes and the next composite that it will produce -
for instance, after yielding 13, the prime map will be {2: 20, 3: 18,
5: 20, 7: 21, 11: 22, 13: 26}, each one mapped to the first multiple
greater than 13.
Notable in the algorithm is an entire lack of division, or even
multiplication. Everything is done with addition.
So, a few questions. Firstly, is there a stdlib way to find the key
with the lowest corresponding value? In the above map, it would return
3, because 18 is the lowest value in the list. I want to do this with
a single pass over the dictionary. Secondly, can the while
ismallest... i+=1 loop become a for...range? It's almost asking for
it, but not quite there. Thirdly, is there any sort of half-sane
benchmark that I can compare this code to? And finally, whose wheel
did I reinvent here? What name would this algorithm have?
Code tested on Python 3.3, would probably run fine on pretty much any
Python that supports yield, though I don't have a Py2.2 to test from
__future__ import generators on!
ChrisA
# -- start --
def primes():
Generate an infinite series of prime numbers.
i=2
yield 2
prime={2:2} # Map a prime number to its next composite (but bootstrap
with 2:2)
while True:
# Find the smallest value in prime[] and its key.
# Is there a standard library way to do this??
# (If two values are equal smallest, either can be returned.)
prm=None
for p,val in prime.items():
if prm is None or valsmallest:
prm,smallest=p,val
prime[prm]+=prm
while ismallest:
yield i
prime[i]=i+i
i+=1
if i==smallest: i+=1
gen=primes()
for i in range(30):
print(next(gen),end=\t) # Star Trek?
print()
# -- end --
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Buying a used iPhone 5
Die On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:49 AM, oswaldclem oswaldc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm planning on buying a used ATT iPhone 5 off of craigslist, and i've been reading on how some people sell their iPhones to people and later on blacklisting it, screwing the buyer over, or how people are mistakenly buying already blacklisted iPhones. I was wondering if there's a way I can prevent this? I was thinking of meeting at an ATT store to make sure it's not blacklisted and to make sure it's not connected to any account that could black list it. Would that be a good idea? - used iphone -- View this message in context: http://python.6.x6.nabble.com/Buying-a-used-iPhone-5-tp5024345.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best Scripting Language for Embedded Work?
On 2013-07-10, David T Ashley dash...@gmail.com wrote: We develop embedded software for 32-bit micros using Windows as the development platform. We are seeking a general purpose scripting language to automate certain tasks, like cleaning out certain directories of certain types of files in preparation for ZIP'ing, generating certain source files automatically, etc. That's what a command shell is for. Since windows doesn't come with a real one, I'd recommend installing Cygwin and then using bash, make, etc. Better yet. Abandon windows and switch to an OS environment intended for software development rather than generating time-wasting power-point presentations. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Look! A ladder! at Maybe it leads to heaven, gmail.comor a sandwich! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 07/10/2013 05:39 AM, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 13:35, Skip Montanaro s...@pobox.com wrote: Either that or it's funny only to other Australians. Or the Dutch. Or us Brits. Or the Yanks... Normally I kill-file threads like this pretty early on, but I have to admit - I'm enjoying watching y'all play with the troll this time ;) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:00:59 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
[...]
So, a few questions. Firstly, is there a stdlib way to find the key
with the lowest corresponding value? In the above map, it would return
3, because 18 is the lowest value in the list. I want to do this with
a single pass over the dictionary.
In [1]: prime = {2: 20, 3: 18, 5: 20, 7: 21, 11: 22, 13: 26}
In [2]: smallest_key = min(prime.iteritems(), key=lambda k_v: k_v[1])[0]
In [3]: smallest_key
Out[3]: 3
Still trying to figure out your algorithm ...
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Re: Stack Overflow moder ator “animuson”
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 08:46:44 +, Mats Peterson wrote: Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:26:19 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: [...] And this matters... how? What are we supposed to do about it? We are not the Python Secret Underground, which emphatically does not exist. Of course not, because if it did Because if it did what? :p Then they would have full control of this list and what gets pos Ahhh so this is pos, right? Telling the truth? Interesting. Mats, I fear you have misunderstood. If the Python Secret Underground existed, which it most certainly does not, it would absolutely not have the power to censor people's emails or cut them off in the middle of -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Bas wegw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 4:00:59 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote:
[...]
So, a few questions. Firstly, is there a stdlib way to find the key
with the lowest corresponding value? In the above map, it would return
3, because 18 is the lowest value in the list. I want to do this with
a single pass over the dictionary.
In [1]: prime = {2: 20, 3: 18, 5: 20, 7: 21, 11: 22, 13: 26}
In [2]: smallest_key = min(prime.iteritems(), key=lambda k_v: k_v[1])[0]
In [3]: smallest_key
Out[3]: 3
Well, that does answer the question. Unfortunately the use of lambda
there has a severe performance cost (roughly doubles the total run
time, when I ask for the thousandth prime), without majorly improving
readability. I'll bear it in mind if there's a way to make that work
on either readability or performance, but otherwise, I'll stick with
the explicit loop. Thanks anyway!
Still trying to figure out your algorithm ...
It's pretty simple. (That's a bad start, I know!) Like the Sieve of
Eratosthenes, it locates prime numbers, then deems every multiple of
them to be composite. Unlike the classic sieve, it does the deem
part in parallel. Instead of marking all the multiples of 2 first,
then picking three and marking all the multiples of 3, then 5, etc,
this function records the fact that it's up to (say) 42 in marking
multiples of 2, and then when it comes to check if 43 is prime or not,
it moves to the next multiple of 2. This requires memory to store the
previously-known primes, similarly to other methods, but needs no
multiplication or division.
ChrisA
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Re: Default scope of variables
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Frank Millman fr...@chagford.com wrote: You had me worried there for a moment, as that is obviously an error. Then I checked my actual code, and I find that I mis-transcribed it. It actually looks like this - with db_session as conn: db_session.transaction_active = True conn.cur.execute(...) I am still not quite sure what your objection is to this. It feels straightforward to me. Here is one possible answer. Whenever I want to commit a transaction I have to add the extra line. There is a danger that I could mis-spell 'transaction_active', in which case it would not raise an error, but would not commit the transaction, which could be a hard-to-trace bug. Using your approach, if I mis-spelled 'db_session.connect()', it would immediately raise an error. Is that your concern, or are there other issues? Yes, that is one concern. Another is that since you mistakenly typed conn instead of db_session once, you might make the same mistake again in actual code, with the same effect (unless the conn object doesn't allow arbitrary attributes, which is a possibility). Another is that the code adheres better to the DRY principle if you don't need to copy that line all over the place. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On 10 July 2013 15:00, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
And now for something completely different.
I knocked together a prime number generator, just for the fun of it,
that works like a Sieve of Eratosthenes but unbounded. It keeps track
of all known primes and the next composite that it will produce -
for instance, after yielding 13, the prime map will be {2: 20, 3: 18,
5: 20, 7: 21, 11: 22, 13: 26}, each one mapped to the first multiple
greater than 13.
Notable in the algorithm is an entire lack of division, or even
multiplication. Everything is done with addition.
So, a few questions. Firstly, is there a stdlib way to find the key
with the lowest corresponding value?
Of course there is.
In the above map, it would return
3, because 18 is the lowest value in the list. I want to do this with
a single pass over the dictionary. Secondly, can the while
ismallest... i+=1 loop become a for...range?
Of course it can.
It's almost asking for
it, but not quite there. Thirdly, is there any sort of half-sane
benchmark that I can compare this code to?
Of course there is. I have no clue what, though.
And finally, whose wheel
did I reinvent here?
Mine :P. That just proves the algorithm is older still, though. You
also did it much more neatly and much more slowly, though. The trick
is to avoid that repeated effort of finding the minimum in the dict by
just keeping a sorted list.
I've mocked that up just now:
# Faster code #
from blist import sortedlist
def generate_primes():
primes = sortedlist()
primes.add([4, 2])
yield 2
i = 3
while True:
next_nonprime, prime_factor = primes.pop(0)
for prime in range(i, next_nonprime):
yield prime
primes.add([prime*2, prime])
i = next_nonprime + 1
primes.add([next_nonprime + prime_factor, prime_factor])
# No longer code #
What name would this algorithm have?
I'll call it the flamingo.
Code tested on Python 3.3, would probably run fine on pretty much any
Python that supports yield, though I don't have a Py2.2 to test from
__future__ import generators on!
ChrisA
# -- start --
def generate_primes():
Generate an infinite series of prime numbers.
i = 2
yield 2
primes = {2:2} # Map a prime number to its next composite (but
bootstrap with 2:2)
while True:
prm = min(primes, key=primes.__getitem__)
smallest = primes[prm]
primes[prm] += prm
for prm in range(i, smallest):
yield prm
primes[i] = 2*i
i = smallest + 1
gen=generate_primes()
for i in range(30):
print(next(gen),end=\t) # Star Trek?
print()
# -- end --
--
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Re: Prime number generator
On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 5:12:19 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: Well, that does answer the question. Unfortunately the use of lambda there has a severe performance cost [ ...] If you care about speed, you might want to check the heapq module. Removing the smallest item and inserting a new item in a heap both cost O(log(N)) time, while finding the minimum in a dictionary requires iterating over the whole dictionary, which cost O(N) time. (untested) #before loop from heapq import * primes = [(2,2)] #heap of tuples (multiple, prime). start with 1 item, so no need for heapify #during loop smallest, prm = heappop(primes) heappush(primes, (smallest+prm, prm)) #when new prime found heappush(primes, (i+i, i)) Still trying to figure out your algorithm ... It's pretty simple. [...] I understand what you are trying, but it is not immediately clear to me that it works correctly if for example a smallest factor appears twice in the list. I don't have time for it now, but it for sure can be simplified. The while loop, for example, can be replaced by an if, since it will never execute more than once (since if i is prime 2, i+1 will be divisible by 2) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
ANN: psutil 1.0.0 released
Hi there folks, I'm pleased to announce the 1.0.0 release of psutil: http://code.google.com/p/psutil/ === About === psutil is a module providing an interface for retrieving information on all running processes and system utilization (CPU, memory, disks, network, users) in a portable way by using Python. It currently supports Linux, Windows, OSX, FreeBSD and Sun Solaris, both 32-bit and 64-bit, with Python versions from 2.4 to 3.3 by using a single code base. === New features === This new release finally includes support for Sun Solaris systems! I wish to thank Justin Venus who first wrote a prototype in Cython which I then converted in C (full story here: https://code.google.com/p/psutil/issues/detail?id=18). Complete list of bugfixes and enhancements is here: https://psutil.googlecode.com/hg/HISTORY === Compatitility notes === There's a couple of things you may want to know in terms of backward compatibility: * Process.get_connections() 'status' field is no longer a string but a constant object (psutil.CONN_*) * Process.get_connections() 'local_address' and 'remote_address' fields have been renamed to 'laddr' and 'raddr' * psutil.network_io_counters() has been renamed to psutil.net_io_counters() There are still aliases for the old names. They will issue a DeprecationWarning though. === Links === * Home page: http://code.google.com/p/psutil * Source tarball: http://psutil.googlecode.com/files/psutil-1.0.0.tar.gz * API Reference: http://code.google.com/p/psutil/wiki/Documentation Please try out this new release and let me know if you experience any problem by filing issues on the bug tracker. Thanks in advance and hooray for the new Solaris support! ;-) All the best, --- Giampaolo Rodola' http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/ http://code.google.com/p/psutil/ http://code.google.com/p/pysendfile/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. I hate to sound like this but do you realise that this is exactly what you're arguing for when saying that sum() shouldn't use +=? (There is no spite in the above sentence, but it sounds like there is. There is however no way obvious to me to remove it without changing the sentence's meaning.) The same with Unicode. We hate French people, And for good damn reason too. They're ruining our language, á mon avis. you see, and so in an effort to drive everyone back to ASCII-only text, Python 3.3 introduces some memory optimizations that ensures that Unicode strings work correctly and are up to four times smaller than they used to be. You should get together with jmfauth, who has discovered our dastardly plot and keeps posting benchmarks showing how on carefully contrived micro- benchmarks using a beta version of Python 3.3, non-ASCII string operations can be marginally slower than in 3.2. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Default scope of variables
On 07/09/2013 10:54 PM, Frank Millman wrote: Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote in message news:calwzidnf3obe0enf3xthlj5a40k8hxvthveipecq8+34zxy...@mail.gmail.com... On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: You could also do it like this: def updating(self): self.transaction_active = True return self Yes, that would be simpler. I was all set to point out why this doesn't work, and then I noticed that the location of the transaction_active attribute is not consistent in the original code. The DbSession class places it on self, and then the example usage places it on the connection object (which I had based my version on). Since that seems to be a source of confusion, it demonstrates another reason why factoring this out is a good thing. You had me worried there for a moment, as that is obviously an error. Then I checked my actual code, and I find that I mis-transcribed it. It actually looks like this - with db_session as conn: db_session.transaction_active = True conn.cur.execute(...) I am still not quite sure what your objection is to this. It feels straightforward to me. Here is one possible answer. Whenever I want to commit a transaction I have to add the extra line. There is a danger that I could mis-spell 'transaction_active', in which case it would not raise an error, but would not commit the transaction, which could be a hard-to-trace bug. Using your approach, if I mis-spelled 'db_session.connect()', it would immediately raise an error. Is that your concern, or are there other issues? That concern is big enough. I've been bitten by that type of thing enough in my own code to want to avoid it where possible. Plus the `with db_session.updating() as conn:` saves keystrokes. ;) -- ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:43 AM, Joshua Landau jos...@landau.ws wrote:
So, a few questions. Firstly, is there...
Of course there is.
Secondly, can the...
Of course it can.
Thirdly, is there...
Of course there is. I have no clue what, though.
Heh, I guess I was asking for that kind of response :)
The trick
is to avoid that repeated effort of finding the minimum in the dict by
just keeping a sorted list.
I've mocked that up just now:
# Faster code #
from blist import sortedlist
Hmm, blist isn't part of the standard library, so I'd have to hunt
that down. Presumably it's on PyPI.
What name would this algorithm have?
I'll call it the flamingo.
Guess that's as good a name as any!
def generate_primes():
Generate an infinite series of prime numbers.
i = 2
yield 2
primes = {2:2} # Map a prime number to its next composite (but
bootstrap with 2:2)
while True:
prm = min(primes, key=primes.__getitem__)
smallest = primes[prm]
primes[prm] += prm
for prm in range(i, smallest):
yield prm
primes[i] = 2*i
i = smallest + 1
gen=generate_primes()
for i in range(30):
print(next(gen),end=\t) # Star Trek?
print()
And once again, a version that's slower than the original. This one
does at least have the advantage of readability, though, and it's only
a little slower, so I'd say this is the current winner. I would still
replace 2*i with i+i for the sake of boasting no multiplication,
though :)
In terms of the one pass criterion I put on the find-smallest
algorithm, I had been seeking to avoid anything that involved constant
lookups into primes[]. But this solution does look very clean and
simple. I think.
ChrisA
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Re: Prime number generator
On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 00:00:59 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: And now for something completely different. I knocked together a prime number generator, just for the fun of it, that works like a Sieve of Eratosthenes but unbounded. [...] So, a few questions. Firstly, is there a stdlib way to find the key with the lowest corresponding value? In the above map, it would return 3, because 18 is the lowest value in the list. Not from a dict, but with a list you would probably use the bisect module. I want to do this with a single pass over the dictionary. Secondly, can the while ismallest... i+=1 loop become a for...range? It's almost asking for it, but not quite there. Thirdly, is there any sort of half-sane benchmark that I can compare this code to? And finally, whose wheel did I reinvent here? What name would this algorithm have? I can't directly answer that question, but I can make a shameless plug for this: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyprimes If your prime generator performs better than, or worse than, all of those in the above module, I may have to steal it from you :-) -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: psutil 1.0.0 released
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 17:46:13 +0200, Giampaolo Rodola' wrote: Hi there folks, I'm pleased to announce the 1.0.0 release of psutil: http://code.google.com/p/psutil/ Congratulations on the 1.0.0 release! -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Mats Peterson matsp...@aim.com wrote: Joshua Landau jos...@landau.ws wrote: If you actually can satisfy these basic standards for a comparison (as I'm sure any competent person with so much bravo could) I'd be willing to converse with you. I'd like to see these results where Python compares as extremely slow. Note that, by your own wording, a 30% drop is irrelevant. I haven't provided a real-world example, since I expect you Python Einsteins to be able do an A/B test between Python and Perl yourselves (provided you know Perl, of course, which I'm afraid is not always the case). And why would I use any custom version of Python, when I don't have to do that with Perl? Well, I'm certainly not about to do the comparison myself. I only have so much time, and presently I am not sufficiently motivated about this topic to invest any time in it. A suggestion: *you* brought up the subject, so if you want us to pay attention to your claims, then *you* had better be prepared to get your hands dirty and do the actual work to support it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: ANN: psutil 1.0.0 released
Hi. I'm pleased to announce the 1.0.0 release of psutil: http://code.google.com/p/psutil/ Great! :-) Btw. any change you can put up a prebuilt installer for a 64-bit built with Python 3.3? You have one for Python 3.2 (http://code.google.com/p/psutil/downloads/list), but the version for Python 3.3 is not there. Best regards, Jurko Gospodnetić -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: StackOverflowmoderator “animuson”
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 09:03:24 +, Mats Peterson wrote: Not a troll. It's just hard to convince Python users that their beloved language would have inferior regular expression performance to Perl. I can't speak for others, but I've known for many years that Python's regex implementation was slower than Perl's. So what? Do you have a patch? -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
And now for something completely different.
I knocked together a prime number generator, just for the fun of it,
that works like a Sieve of Eratosthenes but unbounded. It keeps track
of all known primes and the next composite that it will produce -
for instance, after yielding 13, the prime map will be {2: 20, 3: 18,
5: 20, 7: 21, 11: 22, 13: 26}, each one mapped to the first multiple
greater than 13.
Cool! I have a similar generator, and instead of mapping primes to
next composites, it maps next composites to lists of primes. It works
using increment-by-2 and checking the dictionary rather than searching
for the min of the dictionary. You could though adapt that data
structure and just use min(prime) to find the next composite (although
as somebody else noted, a heap would probably be more efficient).
The other interesting thing about my sieve is that it's a recursive
generator. I'll dig it up later and share it.
--
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Re: Prime number generator
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:47 AM, bas blswink...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 5:12:19 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: Well, that does answer the question. Unfortunately the use of lambda there has a severe performance cost [ ...] If you care about speed, you might want to check the heapq module. Removing the smallest item and inserting a new item in a heap both cost O(log(N)) time, while finding the minimum in a dictionary requires iterating over the whole dictionary, which cost O(N) time. Ehh, speed isn't the ultimate. I was just trying to avoid something that worked out ridiculously slow (a Python function call IS quite slow). I haven't profiled the code to find out where the bulk of the time is spent, but switching in the lambda-based version doubled total run time, so I didn't like it :) (untested) #before loop from heapq import * primes = [(2,2)] #heap of tuples (multiple, prime). start with 1 item, so no need for heapify #during loop smallest, prm = heappop(primes) heappush(primes, (smallest+prm, prm)) #when new prime found heappush(primes, (i+i, i)) Ahh, that's the bit I should have thought of! Of course. My original thought experiment had involved basically a really long list, like the classic Sieve but getting longer as time moves on, with composites replaced by None and primes with their next-markers, which I then collapsed to a dict. Always I was thinking in terms of indexing with the prime to get its next composite. Here's the code involving heapq: # -- start -- def primes(): Generate an infinite series of prime numbers. from heapq import heappush,heappop i=2 yield 2 prime=[(2,2)] # Heap while True: smallest, prm = heappop(prime) heappush(prime, (smallest+prm, prm)) while ismallest: yield i heappush(prime, (i+i, i)) i+=1 if i==smallest: i+=1 gen=primes() print([next(gen) for i in range(10)]) for i in range(1000): next(gen) # Star Trek? print(The next prime number is:,next(gen)) # -- end -- And that's significantly shorter, clearer, AND faster than the original. Thanks! Still trying to figure out your algorithm ... It's pretty simple. [...] I understand what you are trying, but it is not immediately clear to me that it works correctly if for example a smallest factor appears twice in the list. I don't have time for it now, but it for sure can be simplified. The while loop, for example, can be replaced by an if, since it will never execute more than once (since if i is prime 2, i+1 will be divisible by 2) Ah, good point. Again, I originally was starting from 1, so the while loop was necessary to catch 2 and 3 in the first run. When I changed it to start at 2 and explicitly yield it first, I didn't notice to change that. It works correctly with the smallest multiple appearing twice because it won't yield primes until the smallest value is higher than the current next-prime. So when it's just yielded 11, for instance, both the 2 and 3 slots hold 12; advancing one of those does nothing, advancing the other allows the bottom loop to notice that 13 is now lower than the minimum value (which will then be 14). ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 07/10/2013 08:54 AM, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. I hate to sound like this but do you realise that this is exactly what you're arguing for when saying that sum() shouldn't use +=? my_obj = SomeKoolClass() my_obj.modify_in_some_kool_way() new_result = sum([SKC1, SKC2, SKC3], my_obj) Guess what? You've just changed my_obj. -- ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
call your mom On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 07/10/2013 08:54 AM, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/**01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-** prime-numbers/http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. I hate to sound like this but do you realise that this is exactly what you're arguing for when saying that sum() shouldn't use +=? my_obj = SomeKoolClass() my_obj.modify_in_some_kool_**way() new_result = sum([SKC1, SKC2, SKC3], my_obj) Guess what? You've just changed my_obj. -- ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/python-listhttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 2:01 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 00:00:59 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: Thirdly, is there any sort of half-sane benchmark that I can compare this code to? And finally, whose wheel did I reinvent here? What name would this algorithm have? I can't directly answer that question, but I can make a shameless plug for this: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyprimes If your prime generator performs better than, or worse than, all of those in the above module, I may have to steal it from you :-) Ha, that's what I was hoping for. My algorithm outperforms several of yours! Look! Rosuav: 0.10868923284942639 awful_primes: 16.55546780386893 naive_primes1: 2.6105180965737276 naive_primes2: 1.358270674066116 trial_division: 0.06926075800136644 turner: 0.5736550315752424 croft: 0.007141969160883832 sieve: 0.01786707528470899 cookbook: 0.014790147909859996 wheel: 0.015050236831779529 Okay, so I outperform only algorithms listed as toys... :| Here's similar figures, going to a higher cutoff (I kept it low for the sake of awful_primes) and using only the algos designed for real use: Rosuav: 2.1318494389650082 croft: 0.11628042111497416 sieve: 0.26868582459502566 cookbook: 0.21551174800149164 wheel: 0.4761577239565362 I didn't seriously think that this would outperform mathematically proven and efficient algorithms, it was just a toy. But at least now I know: It's roughly 20 times slower than a leading algo. And that's after the bas-suggested improvement of using a heap. But hey. If you want the code, you're welcome to it - same with anyone else. Here's the heap version as used in the above timings. MIT license. def primes(): Generate an infinite series of prime numbers. from heapq import heappush,heappop i=2 yield 2 prime=[(2,2)] # Heap while True: smallest, prm = heappop(prime) heappush(prime, (smallest+prm, prm)) if ismallest: yield i heappush(prime, (i+i, i)) i+=1 if i==smallest: i+=1 # Enjoy! ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: The other interesting thing about my sieve is that it's a recursive generator. I'll dig it up later and share it. As promised. Apologies for the excessive commenting. As noted, this implementation is a recursive generator, which is done so that the primes in the sieve can go only up to the square root of the current prime, rather than tossing in every prime seen so far. from collections import defaultdict from itertools import count, islice def primes(): yield 2 # Set up the data structures. multiples implements the sieve as a dict # that marks upcoming composite numbers and records the prime factors # that disqualified them. multiples = defaultdict(list) # subgen is a recursive sub-generator that supplies prime factors to be fed # into the sieve. islice is used to skip 2 (since we only consider odd # numbers) and 3 (since we can't get it from subgen before we've yielded it # below). subgen = islice(primes(), 2, None) # Initialize the sieve with the first prime factor q. q = 3 # When we reach threshold (the square of the last prime added to the sieve), # it's time to add another prime to the sieve. By construction, threshold # is always an odd composite. threshold = q * q multiples[threshold].append(q + q) # The main loop tries every odd integer, starting with 3. for p in count(3, 2): if p in multiples: # p is composite. Discard the entry from multiples and mark the # next odd multiple of each prime factor that disqualified p. # Because the multiples dict actually stores the doubles of the # prime factors, they need only be added once to get to the next # odd multiple. for q in multiples[p]: multiples[p + q].append(q) del multiples[p] if p == threshold: # All primes up to the previous q ** 2 have been generated. # Get the next prime factor q and add it to the sieve. q = subgen.next() threshold = q * q multiples[threshold].append(q + q) else: # p is prime. Yay! yield p -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: As promised. Apologies for the excessive commenting. As noted, this implementation is a recursive generator, which is done so that the primes in the sieve can go only up to the square root of the current prime, rather than tossing in every prime seen so far. Nice. Comes in at 0.23369310904039478 in my oh-so-scientific benchmarking, so it's comparable to several of Steven's algorithms. Runs on Python 3.3 with just the tiny tweak of converting iter.next() to next(iter). ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 16:54:02 +0100, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime- numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. I hate to sound like this but do you realise that this is exactly what you're arguing for when saying that sum() shouldn't use +=? You're referencing an off-list conversation, which will probably confuse most others reading this. I don't agree with that. Apart from one throw-away comment where I said that sometimes it is handy to have a trivial example of an O(N**2) algorithm for teaching purposes, I have never made any suggestion that having sum(lists) be slow was a good thing in and of itself. My argument has always been that there are costs as well as benefits to changing sum of lists to use += instead of + and I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh those costs. Quite frankly, looking at the pure-Python version of sum that Sergey has posted, I *really* hope he is a better C programmer than Python programmer, because his pure-Python version is so full of bugs it is ridiculous. But now I'm also referring to posts off-list :-) -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On 10 July 2013 17:15, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:47 AM, bas blswink...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 5:12:19 PM UTC+2, Chris Angelico wrote: Well, that does answer the question. Unfortunately the use of lambda there has a severe performance cost [ ...] If you care about speed, you might want to check the heapq module. Removing the smallest item and inserting a new item in a heap both cost O(log(N)) time, while finding the minimum in a dictionary requires iterating over the whole dictionary, which cost O(N) time. Actually, because it's a list under the hood I'd imagine push and pop still take O(n) time :/. Ehh, speed isn't the ultimate. I was just trying to avoid something that worked out ridiculously slow (a Python function call IS quite slow). I haven't profiled the code to find out where the bulk of the time is spent, but switching in the lambda-based version doubled total run time, so I didn't like it :) (untested) #before loop from heapq import * primes = [(2,2)] #heap of tuples (multiple, prime). start with 1 item, so no need for heapify #during loop smallest, prm = heappop(primes) heappush(primes, (smallest+prm, prm)) #when new prime found heappush(primes, (i+i, i)) Ahh, that's the bit I should have thought of! Of course. My original thought experiment had involved basically a really long list, like the classic Sieve but getting longer as time moves on, with composites replaced by None and primes with their next-markers, which I then collapsed to a dict. Always I was thinking in terms of indexing with the prime to get its next composite. Here's the code involving heapq: # -- start -- def primes(): Generate an infinite series of prime numbers. from heapq import heappush,heappop i=2 yield 2 prime=[(2,2)] # Heap while True: smallest, prm = heappop(prime) heappush(prime, (smallest+prm, prm)) while ismallest: yield i heappush(prime, (i+i, i)) i+=1 if i==smallest: i+=1 gen=primes() print([next(gen) for i in range(10)]) for i in range(1000): next(gen) # Star Trek? print(The next prime number is:,next(gen)) # -- end -- And that's significantly shorter, clearer, AND faster than the original. Thanks! AFAICT, that's exactly my code but using a less-efficient storage medium and a *much* more efficient sorting mechanism. It'd be interesting what could happen if heapq didn't reject blists -- they have better efficiency for changing list sizes (which this code does a lot of). Thanks for the heads-up on heapq, by the way -- it's new to me and a blimmin' good idea. PS: It's faster to use heapreplace(...) than heappop(...);heappush(...) but it only saves a few %. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 18:15, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 16:54:02 +0100, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime- numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. I hate to sound like this but do you realise that this is exactly what you're arguing for when saying that sum() shouldn't use +=? You're referencing an off-list conversation, which will probably confuse most others reading this. I don't agree with that. Apart from one throw-away comment where I said that sometimes it is handy to have a trivial example of an O(N**2) algorithm for teaching purposes, I have never made any suggestion that having sum(lists) be slow was a good thing in and of itself. I might be misattributing posts then. Or... YOU'RE IN DENIAL! Who wins? You decide! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On 10 July 2013 17:18, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 07/10/2013 08:54 AM, Joshua Landau wrote: On 10 July 2013 10:00, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 07:55:05 +, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. That's by design. We don't want to make the same mistake as Perl, where every problem is solved by a regular expression: http://neilk.net/blog/2000/06/01/abigails-regex-to-test-for-prime-numbers/ so we deliberately make regexes as slow as possible so that programmers will look for a better way to solve their problem. If you check the source code for the re engine, you'll find that for certain regexes, it busy-waits for anything up to 30 seconds at a time, deliberately wasting cycles. I hate to sound like this but do you realise that this is exactly what you're arguing for when saying that sum() shouldn't use +=? my_obj = SomeKoolClass() my_obj.modify_in_some_kool_way() new_result = sum([SKC1, SKC2, SKC3], my_obj) Guess what? You've just changed my_obj. You're extrapolating too quickly. The first + is a copying +, the rest add in-place to the new object. Thus, no unexpected side effect. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow bans Mats Peterson (was Re: ....)
On 7/10/2013 3:55 AM, Mats Peterson wrote: A moderator who calls himself “animuson” on Stack Overflow doesn’t want to face the truth. He has deleted all my postings regarding Python regular expression matching being extremely slow compared to Perl. Additionally my account has been suspended for 7 days. Such a dickwad. Your opinion of animuson is off-topic for this list. StackOverflow is explicitly for technical questions with technical answers. I believe opinions, languages comparisions, and flamebaits in general are explicitly banned and subject to removal and possible banning. So are subterfuges like phrasing banned topics as questions. Given your behavior here, I am 90+% sure animuson's action was appropriate. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Joshua Landau jos...@landau.ws wrote: If you care about speed, you might want to check the heapq module. Removing the smallest item and inserting a new item in a heap both cost O(log(N)) time, while finding the minimum in a dictionary requires iterating over the whole dictionary, which cost O(N) time. Actually, because it's a list under the hood I'd imagine push and pop still take O(n) time :/. It shouldn't. You can implement push by appending the new item and then getting it into the right place by performing O(log n) swaps. Likewise for pop, you can update the heap with O(log n) swaps and then removing the tail element. Appending or removing the tail element of a list is amortized O(1). PS: It's faster to use heapreplace(...) than heappop(...);heappush(...) but it only saves a few %. The problem with heapreplace here is that the value to be pushed is dependent on the value returned by pop. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Prime number generator
On 10 July 2013 19:56, Ian Kelly ian.g.ke...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Joshua Landau jos...@landau.ws wrote: If you care about speed, you might want to check the heapq module. Removing the smallest item and inserting a new item in a heap both cost O(log(N)) time, while finding the minimum in a dictionary requires iterating over the whole dictionary, which cost O(N) time. Actually, because it's a list under the hood I'd imagine push and pop still take O(n) time :/. It shouldn't. You can implement push by appending the new item and then getting it into the right place by performing O(log n) swaps. Likewise for pop, you can update the heap with O(log n) swaps and then removing the tail element. Appending or removing the tail element of a list is amortized O(1). Genius. Bas replied off-list that it won't matter too much anyway as they're over-allocated, but this makes tons of sense. PS: It's faster to use heapreplace(...) than heappop(...);heappush(...) but it only saves a few %. The problem with heapreplace here is that the value to be pushed is dependent on the value returned by pop. That's fine because indexing is much faster than pop. The few % was a real statistic from working, timed code. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Recursive class | can you modify self directly?
On 7/10/2013 4:58 AM, Russel Walker wrote: There is the name x and the class instance (the object) which exists somewhere in memory that x points to. self is just another name that points to the same object (not self in general but the argument passed to the self parameter when a method is called). However if the code inside the method reassigns self to some other object, it doesn't change the fact that x still refers to the original object. So self is just a local variable (an argument). Yes, parameters *names* are the initial local names of the function. Calling the first parameter of instancemethods 'self' is a convention, not a requirement. The name self has no relevance to to the name x other than the fact that they point to the same object. So reassigning self has no effect on x. But modifying the object that self points to, does affect x because it points to the same object. Is this correct? Yes. Multiple names for one objects are 'aliases'. Being able to modify a object with multiple names in different namespaces is both a boon and bug bait. So when you call x.somemethod() it's not passing x as the self Python does not pass'x': it is 'call-by-object', not 'call-by-name'. argument, it's actually passing the object that x points to as the self argument. And that object has know knowledge of the fact that x points to it, or does it? Some objects (modules, classes, functions) have definition names (.__name__ attributes) that are used in their representations (as in tracebacks). But they have no knowledge of their namespace names. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Best Scripting Language for Embedded Work?
David T. Ashley dash...@gmail.com writes: We develop embedded software for 32-bit micros using Windows as the development platform. ... I know that Tcl/Tk would do all of the above, but what about Python? Any other alternatives? Given that list, I'd say just use Tcl and be done. You could force the square peg of python into that round hole, but I doubt it'd be worth the effort. Cheers, Johann -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Recursive class | can you modify self directly?
On Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:33:25 PM UTC+2, Terry Reedy wrote: On 7/10/2013 4:58 AM, Russel Walker wrote: There is the name x and the class instance (the object) which exists somewhere in memory that x points to. self is just another name that points to the same object (not self in general but the argument passed to the self parameter when a method is called). However if the code inside the method reassigns self to some other object, it doesn't change the fact that x still refers to the original object. So self is just a local variable (an argument). Yes, parameters *names* are the initial local names of the function. Calling the first parameter of instancemethods 'self' is a convention, not a requirement. The name self has no relevance to to the name x other than the fact that they point to the same object. So reassigning self has no effect on x. But modifying the object that self points to, does affect x because it points to the same object. Is this correct? Yes. Multiple names for one objects are 'aliases'. Being able to modify a object with multiple names in different namespaces is both a boon and bug bait. So when you call x.somemethod() it's not passing x as the self Python does not pass'x': it is 'call-by-object', not 'call-by-name'. argument, it's actually passing the object that x points to as the self argument. And that object has know knowledge of the fact that x points to it, or does it? Some objects (modules, classes, functions) have definition names (.__name__ attributes) that are used in their representations (as in tracebacks). But they have no knowledge of their namespace names. -- Terry Jan Reedy Thanks Terry, I did read all that twice just to make sure it sunk in and it was really clear and helpful. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Twisted and argparse
Hi all, I'm trying to write an Twisted program that uses the Application object (and will run with twistd) and I'd like to parse command line arguments. The Twisted documentation shows how to use a Twisted thing called usage.Options. However to me this looks a lot like the older Python module getopts. Is there a way to use the argparse module with a Twisted Application? Thanks! Doug -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the general development using Python
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:49 PM, CM cmpyt...@gmail.com wrote: Can all the installation of the runtimes be done with an installer that is itself an .exe, like with PyInstaller? If so, that's probably fine. It should be noted that PyInstaller is confusingly named. It actually creates standalone executables, not installers. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Buying a used iPhone 5
On 10 Jul 2013 15:15, Rodrick Brown rodrick.br...@gmail.com wrote: Die On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:49 AM, oswaldclem oswaldc...@gmail.com wrote: I'm planning on buying a used ATT iPhone 5 off of craigslist, and i've been reading on how some people sell their iPhones to people and later on blacklisting it, screwing the buyer over, or how people are mistakenly buying already blacklisted iPhones. I was wondering if there's a way I can prevent this? I was thinking of meeting at an ATT store to make sure it's not blacklisted and to make sure it's not connected to any account that could black list it. Would that be a good idea? Dice -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Recursive class | can you modify self directly?
I've been mucking around with this silly class pretty much the whole day and my
eyes are about closing now so this is the solution for now I think. Please feel
free to drop any suggestions. I think I mostly just ended up shaving off allot
of extraneous responsibility for the class, that and inheriting from list. I
wanted to try it and it seems to fit (I think).
Maybe tomorrow I'll try it inheriting from instead since that is immutable.
Should've probably thought of that before right this moment, as I had quite a
time with maximum recursion depth exceeded.
class LRExpression(list):
Construct for 'left to right' algebraic expressions.
def __init__(self, *args):
list.__init__(self, args[:1])
for x in args[1:]:
self.append(x)
def __str__(self):
return '(%s)' % ' '.join(map(str, self))
def evaluate(self):
return eval(str(self))
def append(self, x):
if len(self) 3:
list.append(self, x)
else:
oldself = LRExpression(*self)
self.__init__(oldself)
self.append(x)
def test():
a = LRExpression(1)
a.append('+')
a.append(2)
a.append('*')
a.append(3)
try:
print 'repr:', repr(a)
print 'str:', a
print should be 9:, a.evaluate()
except Exception as er:
print er
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: the general development using Python
I was mainly talking in the context of the original post, where it seems something slightly different was meant. If you're deploying to customers, you'd want to offer them an installer. At least, I think you would. That's different from packing Python into a .exe file and pretending it's good-to-go. It depends. In some sense, probably an .exe is the very simplest thing you can provide a user: they download and move it to where they want, the click on it, it runs. It *is* good-to-go, isn't it? (btw, I know at least one person I've read on a forum who just won't use any installer--he feels it can put stuff on his computer where he doesn't have good easy control of it.) Sometimes an installer might be preferable, especially if there are data or image files or tutorials or something that go with the .exe (that weren't, for some reason, bundled inside it). If they don't want it installed, again the best thing to do is an archive with some executable (possibly a batch file or something -- you Windows people would know better what you need) that just runs python main_file.py. Then get them to extract + click. That's 2 operations, and a lot faster than some silly install process. But that's pretty much what the .exe that py2exe makes does anyway. It just kind of hides it all inside the .exe file. There are a lot of ways of making an installer, and my current few Googles have shown that distutils comes with a way of making .msi files¹, and there's also http://wix.tramontana.co.hu/. Some random internet guy reccomended https://code.google.com/p/omaha/, but I've no idea if it's appropriate. There's also http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Main_Page. Again, I'm no Windows user so I'm talking by guessing. And InnoSetup, which I've used to good effect. These are saner solutions because they focus on installing rather than pretending that a .exe file with a packaged Python is anything like a compiled C source. I don't think most informed users of, say, py2exe think that. I think they see it as freezing the application for single-file portability. The fact that people will refer to it as compiling it to an exe is unfortunate, yes. Again, for anyone selling software, just make as few steps as possible for the user. Using py2exe (which is easy to do) to freeze a lot of .py scripts into one easily deployed app passes that test. So does any simple method you mentioned, I'm sure. It all gets us to the same place, right? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Stack Overflow moderator “animuson”
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 18:53:34 +0100, Joshua Landau wrote: I might be misattributing posts then. Or... YOU'RE IN DENIAL! Ranting Rick? Is that you? :-) Who wins? You decide! Ah, definitely not RR :-) -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
