Re: Style for docstring

[dn]

On 26/04/2022 11.47, Rob Cliffe via Python-list wrote:
> Well, de gustibus non est disputandum.  For me, the switch from the
> imperative mode to the descriptive mode produces a mild cognitive
> dissonance.

Disagree!

When coding, to whom?what are you talking?

When writing documentation - same question?

This is the reason why (typically) coders are pretty bad at, or disagree
with a need for, 'documentation' - and particularly documentation that
doesn't fit inside a code-module!

(no insult, pure observation)

See earlier when I described taking a set of Requirements and
progressively applying specific clauses or requirements to a function.
One's thinking is in requirement-satisfaction-mode or 'design-mode'.
Later, when implementing the function, one can work in 'coding-mode'.

Separating tasks/roles removes the dissonance. No split-personality
required!

However, I know what you mean, and earlier today was writing to someone
about why I may not bother with a docstring if I'm in coding-mode and
wanting to 'keep going'. However, I see such as 'technical debt',
justified only in the hope that when I do get back to it (presumably
when the code is working, and I'm basking in the joys of (my own)
success, I'll be in more of a 'documentation' frame of mind...

(and pigs might fly!)



> On 25/04/2022 23:34, Cameron Simpson wrote:
>> On 23Apr2022 03:26, Avi Gross  wrote:
>>> We know some people using "professional" language make things shorteror
>>> talk from a point of view different than others and often in
>>> otherwise incomprehensible jargon.
>>> If a programmer is taking about the algorithm that a function
>>> implements, then, yes, they may write "scan" and "return".
>>> But if they realize the darn documentation is for PEOPLE asking
>>> how to use the darn thing, and want to write in more informal
>>> and understandable English, I think it makes more sense to say
>>> what the function does as in "scans" and importantly what it
>>> "returns" to the user as a result.
>> I'm in the imperative camp. But if I think the function requires some
>> elaboration, _then_ I provide description:
>>
>>  def f(x):
>>  ''' Return the frobnangle of `x`.
>>
>>  This iterates over the internals of `x` in blah order
>>  gathering the earliest items which are frobby and composes a
>>  nangle of the items.
>>  '''
>>
>> I very much like the concise imperative opening sentence, sometimes 2
>> sentences. Then the elaboration if the function isn't trivially obvious.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Cameron Simpson 
> 

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=dn
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Re: Style for docstring

[Rob Cliffe via Python-list]

Well, de gustibus non est disputandum.  For me, the switch from the 
imperative mode to the descriptive mode produces a mild cognitive 
dissonance.

Best wishes
Rob Cliffe

On 25/04/2022 23:34, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 23Apr2022 03:26, Avi Gross  wrote:

We know some people using "professional" language make things shorteror
talk from a point of view different than others and often in
otherwise incomprehensible jargon.
If a programmer is taking about the algorithm that a function implements, then, yes, they may write 
"scan" and "return".
But if they realize the darn documentation is for PEOPLE asking how to use the darn thing, and want 
to write in more informal and understandable English, I think it makes more sense to say what the 
function does as in "scans" and importantly what it "returns" to the user as a 
result.

I'm in the imperative camp. But if I think the function requires some
elaboration, _then_ I provide description:

 def f(x):
 ''' Return the frobnangle of `x`.

 This iterates over the internals of `x` in blah order
 gathering the earliest items which are frobby and composes a
 nangle of the items.
 '''

I very much like the concise imperative opening sentence, sometimes 2
sentences. Then the elaboration if the function isn't trivially obvious.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 


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Re: Style for docstring

[Mats Wichmann]

On 4/25/22 16:34, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 23Apr2022 03:26, Avi Gross  wrote:
>> We know some people using "professional" language make things shorteror 
>> talk from a point of view different than others and often in 
>> otherwise incomprehensible jargon.
>> If a programmer is taking about the algorithm that a function implements, 
>> then, yes, they may write "scan" and "return".
>> But if they realize the darn documentation is for PEOPLE asking how to use 
>> the darn thing, and want to write in more informal and understandable 
>> English, I think it makes more sense to say what the function does as in 
>> "scans" and importantly what it "returns" to the user as a result.
> 
> I'm in the imperative camp. But if I think the function requires some 
> elaboration, _then_ I provide description:

Just as another data point, if nothing else to prove there will never be
consensus :) - Google's style guide is pretty explicit about what they
expect:

> The docstring should be descriptive-style ("""Fetches rows from a
Bigtable.""") rather than imperative-style ("""Fetch rows from a
Bigtable.""").


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Re: tail

[dn]

On 26/04/2022 10.54, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 25Apr2022 08:08, DL Neil  wrote:
>> Thus, the observation that the OP may find that a serial,
>> read-the-entire-file approach is faster is some situations (relatively
>> short files). Conversely, with longer files, some sort of 'last chunk'
>> approach would be superior.
> 
> If you make the chunk big enough, they're the same algorithm!
> 
> It sound silly, but if you make your chunk size as big as your threshold 
> for "this file is too big to read serially in its entirety, you may as 
> well just write the "last chunk" flavour.


I like it!

Yes, in the context of memory-limited mainframes being in-the-past, and
our thinking has, or needs to, moved-on; memory is so much 'cheaper' and
thus available for use!

That said, it depends on file-size and what else is going-on in the
machine/total-application. (and that's 'probably not much' as far as
resource-mix is concerned!) However, I can't speak for the OP, the
reason behind the post, and/or his circumstances...
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=dn
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Re: tail

[Cameron Simpson]

On 25Apr2022 08:08, DL Neil  wrote:
>Thus, the observation that the OP may find that a serial,
>read-the-entire-file approach is faster is some situations (relatively
>short files). Conversely, with longer files, some sort of 'last chunk'
>approach would be superior.

If you make the chunk big enough, they're the same algorithm!

It sound silly, but if you make your chunk size as big as your threshold 
for "this file is too big to read serially in its entirety, you may as 
well just write the "last chunk" flavour.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Style for docstring

[Cameron Simpson]

On 23Apr2022 03:26, Avi Gross  wrote:
>We know some people using "professional" language make things shorteror 
>talk from a point of view different than others and often in 
>otherwise incomprehensible jargon.
>If a programmer is taking about the algorithm that a function implements, 
>then, yes, they may write "scan" and "return".
>But if they realize the darn documentation is for PEOPLE asking how to use the 
>darn thing, and want to write in more informal and understandable English, I 
>think it makes more sense to say what the function does as in "scans" and 
>importantly what it "returns" to the user as a result.

I'm in the imperative camp. But if I think the function requires some 
elaboration, _then_ I provide description:

def f(x):
''' Return the frobnangle of `x`.

This iterates over the internals of `x` in blah order  
gathering the earliest items which are frobby and composes a 
nangle of the items.
'''

I very much like the concise imperative opening sentence, sometimes 2 
sentences. Then the elaboration if the function isn't trivially obvious.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 21:49:05 +0100, Barry 
declaimed the following:

>
>
>> On 25 Apr 2022, at 21:14, Jack Dangler  wrote:

>> Have you tried
>> 
>> python3 hello.py
>
>Will not work on windows. Python is always installed as python.exe and py.exe 
>only.
>

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.19044.1645]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Wulfraed>python3
Python ActivePython 3.8.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
 on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>

C:\Users\Wulfraed>python3.8
Python ActivePython 3.8.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
 on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>

C:\Users\Wulfraed>

C:\Users\Wulfraed>echo %path%
C:\Python38\;C:\Python38\DLLs\;C:\Python38\Scripts\;C:\Python38\Tools\;C:\Python38\Tools\ninja\;C:\Program
Files\PuTTY\;C:\Apps\SQLite3\;C:\Apps\Firebird_4_0;C:\Apps\gnuplot\bin;C:\Apps\R\R-4.0.5\bin\x64;C:\Program
Files
(x86)\SciTE;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\WindowsPowerShell\v1.0\;C:\Program
Files\rexx.org\Regina;C:\Apps\Rexx-Extensi


C:\Users\Wulfraed>dir c:\Python38\*.exe
 Volume in drive C is OS
 Volume Serial Number is 4ACC-3CB4

 Directory of c:\Python38

08/25/2020  06:52 PM   998,328 py.exe
08/25/2020  06:53 PM   102,328 python.exe
08/25/2020  06:53 PM   102,336 python3.8.exe
08/25/2020  06:53 PM   102,336 python3.exe
08/25/2020  06:53 PM26,568 pythonservice.exe
08/25/2020  06:53 PM   100,800 pythonw.exe
08/25/2020  06:53 PM   999,352 pyw.exe
10/08/2020  05:24 PM   587,776 Removepywin32.exe
08/25/2020  06:55 PM   123,848 update_check.exe
   9 File(s)  3,143,672 bytes
   0 Dir(s)  650,737,926,144 bytes free

C:\Users\Wulfraed>

Yes, it is an older version of the ActiveState release, but they did
install with the various versioned names. All I had to do was ensure the
directory was on the system PATH.




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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Eryk Sun]

On 4/25/22, Barry  wrote:
>
>> On 25 Apr 2022, at 21:14, Jack Dangler  wrote:
>
>> Have you tried
>>
>> python3 hello.py
>
> Will not work on windows. Python is always installed as python.exe and
> py.exe only.

Yes, except the app versions installed from the Microsoft Store do
create appexec aliases for python.exe, python3.exe, and python3.x.exe
(e.g. python3.10.exe). The aliases for installed versions can be
toggled separately, so "python.exe" could be enabled to run 3.9, while
"python3.exe" is enabled to run 3.10. The same applies to the "pip*"
and "idle*" aliases.
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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Barry]

> On 25 Apr 2022, at 21:14, Jack Dangler  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 4/24/22 13:59, Greg wrote:
>> I am trying to get Hello World to appear under my directory. The files of
>> 
>> *C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py*
>> *The system cannot find the path specified.*
>> 
>> *C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises>*
>> *The syntax of the command is incorrect.*
>> 
>> I installed version 3.10. I am stuck and could use some help.
>> Thx,
>> 
>> 
>> [image: directory pic.png]
> 
> Have you tried
> 
> python3 hello.py

Will not work on windows. Python is always installed as python.exe and py.exe 
only.

Barry

> 
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> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Jack Dangler]

On 4/24/22 13:59, Greg wrote:

I am trying to get Hello World to appear under my directory. The files of

*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py*
*The system cannot find the path specified.*

*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises>*
*The syntax of the command is incorrect.*

I installed version 3.10. I am stuck and could use some help.
Thx,


[image: directory pic.png]


Have you tried

python3 hello.py

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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

tOn Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:59:53 -0400, Greg  declaimed the
following:

>I am trying to get Hello World to appear under my directory. The files of
>
>*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py*
>*The system cannot find the path specified.*
>
>*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises>*
>*The syntax of the command is incorrect.*
>
>I installed version 3.10. I am stuck and could use some help.
>Thx,
>
>
>[image: directory pic.png]

Text only, no images on this forum.

Cut the TEXT from your console window, not a screen grab.

And... with that... show us the exact text. The text you show above IS
invalid -- paths do not end with > character (that, when shown at the start
of a command, is the prompt delimiter) and (normally space separated) is
the output redirection operator when it follows a command.

Your SECOND line, assuming the prompt string is just "C:\Users\gd752>"  is
trying to change directory to a path of "C:\google-python-exercises>" which
is not valid. Take off the trailing >

05/29/2018  09:58 AM  wekafiles
06/18/2020  09:43 PM  workspace_v10
08/23/2018  11:25 AM  workspace_v6_0
01/08/2018  01:45 PM  workspace_v7
07/08/2019  12:10 PM  workspace_v9
  67 File(s)355,065,731 bytes
  44 Dir(s)  650,737,876,992 bytes free

C:\Users\Wulfraed>cd wekafiles>
The syntax of the command is incorrect.

C:\Users\Wulfraed>cd wekafiles

C:\Users\Wulfraed\wekafiles>

Actually, based upon

C:\Users\Wulfraed\wekafiles>cd ..

C:\Users\Wulfraed>cd wekafiles> test.dat

C:\Users\Wulfraed\wekafiles>

the > is acceptable -- AS OUTPUT REDIRECTION, but the your second line does
not specify the target for said redirection (not that CD has much in the
way of output).

This means your first line is attempting to do a CD with output
redirection to a file with a questionable name

C:\Users\Wulfraed>cd wekafiles> python anything.dat
The system cannot find the path specified.


C:\Users\Wulfraed>dir python
 Volume in drive C is OS
 Volume Serial Number is 4ACC-3CB4

 Directory of C:\Users\Wulfraed

04/25/2022  03:29 PM 0 python
   1 File(s)  0 bytes
   0 Dir(s)  650,748,653,568 bytes free

C:\Users\Wulfraed>

It appears to have created a file with the name python, and then failed
attempting to parse the anything.dat


So... To run your script you have two choices...

DIRECT invocation (from anywhere -- hence "prompt" could show anything)
prompt> python C:\google-python-exercises\hello.py

INDIRECT
prompt> cd C:\google-python-exercises
C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py

(note that the prompt has changed to reflect the CD of the first line)

In neither of those do you ever type a > character.


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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Sunil KR via Python-list]

cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py


this doesn't looks like a valid command. However, is it because a newline got 
swallowed by misformatting?

For clarity, I am reproducing the correct version of the steps:

cd /d  C:\google-python-exercises
python hello.py
The error is:  The system cannot find the path specified. If the above version 
of the steps is what you actually performed, I think that by "path" it may be 
referring to the python command. For the system to be able to find python, its 
location should be updated in the "PATH" environment variable. 

If you would rather not distract yourself with modifying the PATH variable you 
can do what Barry says and just use py, because py is installed in a location 
already specified in PATH

If you want to fix your PATH environment variable there is more than one way to 
do this and you may find this out by googling, as you may get a better 
illustrated answer than it would be possible on this forum

Sunil


 

On Monday, April 25, 2022, 10:50:52 AM PDT, Greg  wrote: 
 
 
 I am trying to get Hello World to appear under my directory. The files of

*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py*
*The system cannot find the path specified.*

*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises>*
*The syntax of the command is incorrect.*

I installed version 3.10. I am stuck and could use some help.
Thx,


[image: directory pic.png]
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Re: Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Barry]

> On 25 Apr 2022, at 18:51, Greg  wrote:
> 
> I am trying to get Hello World to appear under my directory. The files of
> 
> *C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py*
> *The system cannot find the path specified.*

Use can use py instead of python as a command and it should work.

py hello.py

Barry


> 
> *C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises>*
> *The syntax of the command is incorrect.*
> 
> I installed version 3.10. I am stuck and could use some help.
> Thx,
> 
> 
> [image: directory pic.png]
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

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Verifying I installed Python correctly

[Greg]

I am trying to get Hello World to appear under my directory. The files of

*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises> python hello.py*
*The system cannot find the path specified.*

*C:\Users\gd752>cd C:\google-python-exercises>*
*The syntax of the command is incorrect.*

I installed version 3.10. I am stuck and could use some help.
Thx,


[image: directory pic.png]
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Re: Receive a signal when waking or suspending?

[Skip Montanaro]

> https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab=python+up+time pointed-out the
> "uptime — Cross-platform uptime library"
> - TLDR; I'm not sure if "uptime" and "boot" relate only to a
> 'cold-start' or if they include bringing the machine out of 'stand-by'
> or 'hibernation'

Yeah, that won't help. uptime(1) gives the time since the last boot.
Wake/suspend doesn't change the system's notion of boot time.

> https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab=python+battery+status pointed-out
> several ideas which require MS-Windows, but apparently the psutil
> library could be bent to your will:
>
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/python-script-to-shows-laptop-battery-percentage/

I actually already have psutil installed. It gives you details about
various system bits (like battery status, which is why I installed it). It
doesn't seem to have anything that will notify about state changes, just
the current state (or — for example — continuous values like the battery
state of charge). I didn't see anything regarding wake/suspend, but I might
have missed it. Since my tool can't run while the system is suspended, it
would always see the system as "awake" but not know for how long it was in
that state. (I'm sure I could track in my tick routine and pay attention to
unusually long gaps.)

I think Marco's response gives me a bit better handle on what I need(*). Maybe
just an easier way to do things. For example, just before suspending and
just after waking, all scripts in /usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep/ are
executed. The only difference is the arguments with which they are called.
A script to suit my needs can just write a stream of records with
timestamps. It took just a minute or so:

#!/bin/sh

echo "`date --iso-8601=seconds` $1 $2" >> /tmp/suspensions
chmod 0644 /tmp/suspensions

Here's what /tmp/suspensions looks like after a couple cycles:

root@montanaro:/usr/lib/systemd/system-sleep# cat /tmp/suspensions
2022-04-23T19:17:41-05:00 pre suspend
2022-04-23T19:17:54-05:00 post suspend
2022-04-23T19:18:48-05:00 pre suspend
2022-04-23T19:19:04-05:00 post suspend


My tool can monitor that file for changes and keep track of the times of
state changes. It can thus track rest intervals across system suspensions
and know if I've been resting for a long enough period of time to allow me
to subject my wrists to further agony
 with
the keyboard and mouse.

Skip

(*) man systemd-sleep contains this admonition:

Note that scripts or binaries dropped in /lib/systemd/system-sleep/ are
intended for local use only and *should be considered hacks*. If
applications want to react to system suspend/hibernation and resume,
they should
rather use the Inhibitor interface[1].


A hack should suit my needs just fine. I'll leave more elegant solutions to
others. :-)
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Re: Why no list as dict key?

[Lars Liedtke]

Thx, didn't see it that way yet.


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Am 25.04.22 um 15:54 schrieb Peter J. Holzer:

On 2022-04-25 15:13:19 +0200, Lars Liedtke wrote:

May I stupidly ask, why one would want to use an iterable (even immutable)
as dict key?

A string is also an immutable iterable, so this is probably even the
most common case.

As for more complex data structures:

* Tuples or immutable dicts are a good fit if want to group records by
   subset of their attributes (think "group by" in SQL)

* Objects in general are often though of as units, even if they have
   composite values and you might want to look up something by that
   value.

 hp




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Re: Why no list as dict key?

[Peter J. Holzer]

On 2022-04-25 15:13:19 +0200, Lars Liedtke wrote:
> May I stupidly ask, why one would want to use an iterable (even immutable)
> as dict key?

A string is also an immutable iterable, so this is probably even the
most common case.

As for more complex data structures:

* Tuples or immutable dicts are a good fit if want to group records by
  subset of their attributes (think "group by" in SQL)

* Objects in general are often though of as units, even if they have
  composite values and you might want to look up something by that
  value.

hp

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Re: Why no list as dict key?

[Lars Liedtke]

May I stupidly ask, why one would want to use an iterable (even 
immutable) as dict key?


I thought keys were meant to be something "singular". And yes you could 
also combine a string to be a key, and if you combine a string it would 
be somehow the same as a tuple. But anyways I still fail to see the 
application for that, which is most propably to ignorance rather than 
criticism.


Cheers

Lars


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Am 21.04.22 um 07:00 schrieb Chris Angelico:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 at 13:23, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
 wrote:

Assumes checking for object equality before inserting.
If they are they same, do we need different hashes?


The point of the hash is to find things that are equal. That's why
1234, 1234.0, and 0j+1234.0 all have the same hash.

If equality changes, the hash does too. It's certainly possible to
have the hash come from object identity, but then so must equality. If
you want that, it's easy to do - just create your own object for the
state, rather than using a list. But then you have to use the original
object to look things up, instead of matching by the data.

Hashes are simply a short-hand for equality. That's all.

ChrisA


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