Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:40:55 -, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Jun 25, 2:32 pm, Giorgos Keramidas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: >>> So much for the "free" in "free software". If you can't actually use >>> it without paying money, whether for the software or for some book, >>> it isn't really free, is it? >> >> Please do not confuse the term 'free' in 'free software' with 'gratis'. >> >> 'Gratis', i.e. 'lacking a monetary price tag' is something *very* >> different from the meaning of 'free' in 'free software'. > > Having to pay for the documentation, presumably because it's > copyrighted, doesn't strike me as much more "free as in speech" than > it is "free as in beer". You don't have to "pay for the documentation because it is copyrighted". You can _download_ the Emacs manual in any format you are more comfortable with. See for example: http://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.html This page lists downloadable documentation in nicely formatted HTML or PDF formats, which is available without any sort of monetary charge. > Also being dependent on a particular publisher for access to required > documentation violates "free as in no vendor lock-in", to boot. So > anyone saying some "free" software is unusable without such-and-such > an O'Reilly book can go peddle the software and the book somewhere > where spammers are welcome. Being locked in to O'Reilly being just as > bad as being locked in to Microsoft or Adobe. Since you are not obliged to _pay_ for the O'Reilly version, this entire paragraph is both meaningless and moot. Feel free to grab an online copy of the manual, or install the documentation of Emacs using your favorite distribution's packaging tools. There is absolutely no "lock-in" anywhere near Emacs. - Giorgos -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:08:02 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> lpr /usr/local/share/emacs/21.3/etc/refcard.ps >> or your install-dir^^ >> or your version.^ > > So now we're expected to go on a filesystem fishing expedition instead > of just hit F1? One small step (backwards) for a man; one giant leap > (backwards) for mankind. :P > >> But then again buying the GNU-book from 'O Reilly would have solved it >> in the utmost nicest possible of ways anyway. > > So much for the "free" in "free software". If you can't actually use > it without paying money, whether for the software or for some book, it > isn't really free, is it? Please do not confuse the term 'free' in 'free software' with 'gratis'. 'Gratis', i.e. 'lacking a monetary price tag' is something *very* different from the meaning of 'free' in 'free software'. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:51:34 -, Twisted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> C-h i, C-x b RET is non-trivial?!? [...] > I'm sorry. I don't speak Chinese. > > I trust I've made my point. Not only does it insist you learn a whole > other language (though I'm guessing it's not actually Chinese -- > Greek, maybe), even when you know that's a bunch of keystrokes and > even what they are... > > HOW IN THE BLOODY HELL IS IT SUPPOSED TO OCCUR TO SOMEONE TO ENTER > THEM, GIVEN THAT THEY HAVE TO DO SO TO REACH THE HELP THAT WOULD TELL > THEM THOSE ARE THE KEYS TO REACH THE HELP?! No it's not Greek. I can assure you it isn't, because I *am* Greek. Now, regarding your shouting about the keys, have you tried using a recent GNU Emacs installation? The first thing that pops up when a new user runs Emacs looks like this: ,--- | Welcome to GNU Emacs, a part of the GNU operating system. | | Type C-l to begin editing. | | Get help C-h (Hold down CTRL and press h) | Emacs manual C-h r | Emacs tutorial C-h t Undo changes C-x u | Buy manualsC-h C-m Exit Emacs C-x C-c | Browse manuals C-h i | Activate menubar F10 or ESC ` or M-` | (`C-' means use the CTRL key. `M-' means use the Meta (or Alt) key. | If you have no Meta key, you may instead type ESC followed by the character.) | | GNU Emacs 22.1.50.2 (i386-unknown-freebsd7.0, X toolkit) | of 2007-05-29 on kobe | Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. | | GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; type C-h C-w for full details. | Emacs is Free Software--Free as in Freedom--so you can redistribute copies | of Emacs and modify it; type C-h C-c to see the conditions. | Type C-h C-d for information on getting the latest version. `--- Basic reading skills are necessary to parse this 'splash' screen, but it shouldn't be too hard to read a few lines of text which guide you about the proper key sequence to reach the tutorial, right? > Of course, Notepad is so easy to use it doesn't even need help, > despite which it's readily available. In case you forgot the bog- > standard (and therefore it IS self-evident) "F1" there's even a "Help" > menu in plain view as soon as you open a Notepad. There's also a "Help" menu in plain sight when you fire up Emacs with an X11 interface. I don't see why Notepad is special in any way here. > This is the lowly Notepad, which I'll freely admit is the rusty > bicycle of text editors, and it's much easier to use (including the > help) than the supposed Mercedes-Benz of editors. Isn't this always the case? The 'interface' of a tiny bicycle is something which even very young kids can master pretty fast. On the other hand, I'm relatively sure there's at least one valid reason we don't let pre-school aged children drive around Mercedes-Benz cars, isn't there? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Modernization of Emacs
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:02:18 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joel J. Adamson) wrote: >David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> You know you can use something like >> C-x C-f /su::/etc/fstab RET >> (or /sudo::/etc/fstab) in order to edit files as root in a normal >> Emacs session? > > I did not know that. That will save me huge amounts of time. You're > my hero. If you like `C-x C-f /sudo::...', then it may also please you to know that Tramp supports other remote access methods too, i.e.: C-x C-f /ftp: C-x C-f /ssh: and it lets Emacs edit files in remote locations, as long as you have a valid set of username/password credentials for the remote host :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding
On 21 Jun 2007 16:52:17 +0200, Bjorn Borud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on my tombstone will say > "here lies the last Emacs user on earth. M-x rip". Hahaha! Very good one :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Modernization of Emacs: terminology buffer and keybinding
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:01:35 -0700, Xah Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here are some Frequently Asked Questions about The Modernization of > Emacs. > > They are slightly lengthy, so i've separated each item per post. The > whole article can be found at > > http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization.html > > > Q: The Terminology “buffer” and “keybinding” is good as they are. > > A: The terminology “buffer” or “keybinding”, are technical terms > having to do with software programing. The term “keybinding” refers to > the association of a keystroke with a command in a technical, software > application programing context. That is to say, a programer “bind” a > keystroke to a command in a software application. The term “buffer” > refers to a abstract, temporary area for storing data, in the context > of programing or computer science. > > These terms are irrelevant to the users of a software application. > > As a user of a text editor, he works with files. The terms “opened > file” or “untitled file” are more appropriate than “buffer”. No they are not. See you may have a real *file* on a disk somewhere, which is called 'opened file' or even 'untitled file'. Now isn't it confusing to think in terms of made-up descriptiors, just because the term 'buffer' seems alien? Educating the user to avoid confusion in this and other cases of made up, 'user-friendly' descriptions is not a good enough answer. If you can educate the user about this sort of fine distinction between files stored on a disk somewhere and files which are figments of the imagination of Emacs, then I can educate them about 'buffer' too and be done with it all. The main difference is that I get to do it today, without the need for multi-thousand-line changes in the source and documentation of Emacs and its thousands of plugins. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Modernization of Emacs
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:53:21 +0200, David Kastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Harry George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I don't mind folks using any editor they want, as long as they are >> proficient. In those cases, I have no problem doing Extreme >> Programming with them -- code a bit, save, the other guy codes a bit. >> But when someone uses vi and then forgets how to do block moves, or >> uses eclipse and bogs down the session, or uses MS Notepad and can't >> enforce language-specific indents, I get frustrated. > > My favorite killing offence is /* vi:set ts=4: */. Apparently, we share at least part of that. My own favorite killing offense is '/* vi:set ts=anything: */' :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Roedy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 23:33:13 GMT, Rich Teer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote or quoted : > >> What the hell has that got to do with HTML email? Sending photos >> is an example of what attachments are for. > > Normally you send photos to grandma with captions under each photo. > That is far more convenient for the technopeasant receiver than > dealing with multiple attachments. I'd like to agree, but I haven't received *ANY* properly formatted, captioned and readable list of photos in an HTML email message in a long while. What I usually get it an email message with a completely irrelevant subject -- usually a reply to a random thread that happened to include my email address in the recipient list -- with a message body as useless as: Here's a photo collection or even more useless, or empty. This and other things, that show the original poster of the particular HTML email message has _no_ intention to spend just *one* minute to properly write a readable, useful email message, tend to be the main reasons why I block all HTML email messages from non-work-related email addresses, save them in a special folder and look at them only when I really feel like spending some time to weed through the junk. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
