Re: [perl-python] Python documentation moronicities (continued)
Xah Lee wrote: http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/module-re.html http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/lib/node114.html - QUOTE The module defines several functions, constants, and an exception. Some of the functions are simplified versions of the full featured methods for compiled regular expressions. Most non-trivial applications always use the compiled form UNQUOTE What does a programer who wants to use regex gets out from this piece of motherfucking irrevalent drivel? Until now, I have regarded you as a mildly amusing moron. But now I find you're simply illiterate. Buh-bye. -- John W. Kennedy A proud member of the reality-based community. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities?
Xah Lee wrote:
> So, a simple code like this in normal languages:
> a = "a string";
> b = "another one";
> c = join(a,b);
> print c;
>
> or in lisp style
> (set a "a string")
> (set b "another one")
> (set c (join a b))
> (print c)
>
> becomes in pure OOP languages:
> public class test {
> public static void main(String[] args) {
> String a = new String("a string");
> String b = new String("another one");
> StringBuffer c = new StringBuffer(40);
> c.append(a); c.append(b);
> System.out.println(c.toString());
> }
> }
The actual Java parallel to what you have written above is:
String a = "a string";
String b = "another one";
String c = a + b;
System.out.println (c);
> In the same way, numbers in Java have become a formalization of many
> classes: Double, Float, Integer, Long... and each has a bunch of
> "methods" to operate or convert from one to the other.
Byte, Short, Integer, Long, Char, Float and Double are wrapper classes,
which exist chiefly to allow primitive content to be stored in
collection classes.
byte, short, int, long, char, float, and double are primitives.
> Instead of
> aNumber = 3;
> print aNumber^3;
>
> In Java the programer needs to master the ins and outs of the several
> number classes, and decide which one to use. (and if a program later
> needs to change from one type of number to another, it is often
> cumbersome.)
This has nothing to do with object orientation or classes, but with
strong typing, which is important for program verification, and an
inescapable necessity for compiling to efficient object code. Strong
typing has been a feature of mainstream programming languages since the
late 1950's.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The bright critics assembled in this volume will doubtless show, in
their sophisticated and ingenious new ways, that, just as /Pooh/ is
suffused with humanism, our humanism itself, at this late date, has
become full of /Pooh./"
-- Frederick Crews. "Postmodern Pooh", Preface
--
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Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities?
alex goldman wrote: > John W. Kennedy wrote: > > >>Strong >>typing has been a feature of mainstream programming languages since the >>late 1950's. > > > I'm just curious, what do you mean by /strong/ typing, and which strongly > typed languages do you know? Unfortunately, I have seen the meaning shift with the context. In Ada '83, it means it is not possible to have the equivalent of a C unprototyped function, and that mixed-type expressions tend to need explicit casting. In other contexts (as here), I've seen it used to mean simply that variables have definite types, and it is not possible (except by the use of polymorphic classes) for a variable to change from an integer to a float to a character string in the course of execution. In this sense, compile-to-machine-code languages (ee.g., Fortran, COBOL, C, C++, or Pascal), are generally strongly typed and interpreted languages (ee.g., shell scripts, Perl, REXX, APL, or LISP) are generally not. (In pure OO languages, such as SmallTalk or Ruby, the distinction may not really apply, since all variables are of the single type reference-to-root-class.) -- John W. Kennedy "The bright critics assembled in this volume will doubtless show, in their sophisticated and ingenious new ways, that, just as /Pooh/ is suffused with humanism, our humanism itself, at this late date, has become full of /Pooh./" -- Frederick Crews. "Postmodern Pooh", Preface -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities?
alex goldman wrote: > John W. Kennedy wrote: > > >>Strong >>typing has been a feature of mainstream programming languages since the >>late 1950's. > > > Is Fortran a strongly typed language? I don't think so. Strong typing has > been invented in the 70's, if I'm not mistaken, when ML was invented, but > strong typing has never been mainstream. I begin to believe that I have been reading naughty references, and that I should rather have said "statically typed". I am not familiar with modern Fortran. Surely it at least has argument prototyping by now? -- John W. Kennedy "You can, if you wish, class all science-fiction together; but it is about as perceptive as classing the works of Ballantyne, Conrad and W. W. Jacobs together as the 'sea-story' and then criticizing _that_." -- C. S. Lewis. "An Experiment in Criticism" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Rhino wrote: > Everyone > else was still using typewriters - which was IBM's bread and butter in those > days - for their business needs. Oh dear, no. Not quite. There were, going back decades, machines that used punched cards, relays, stepper wheels, and punched cards. It was /that/ that was the foundation of IBM's business, and IBM had an effective monopoly. This was not altogether due to evil; their one competitor, Remington Rand, made machines that were slightly better, but had to be factory-programmed, whereas IBM's machines used panels full of jumper wires, and the panels themselves could be swapped, so that you could have a "program library" of prewired panels. Which would /you/ buy? Remington Rand made a similar mistake with computers. They wouldn't give you a programming manual until you contracted to buy the bloody thing. IBM pulled ahead of them during the year when Univac computers were real and IBM computers weren't, and they never looked back. -- John W. Kennedy "Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only the obeisance of others! Thus is bad government born! Hold in your heart that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good government shall arise of its own accord! Such is the path of virtue!" -- Kazuo Koike. "Lone Wolf and Cub: Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Tim Roberts wrote: > "Jeroen Wenting" wrote: > >>Microsoft isn't evil, they're not a monopoly either. >>If they were a monopoly they'd have 100% of the market and there'd be no >>other software manufacturers at all. > > > This is wrong. The dictionary definition of a monopoly is when a > manufacturer has all or nearly all of a market. Microsoft DOES have a > monopoly on PC operating systems. > > That, in itself, is not necessarily illegal. However, Microsoft then USED > that monopoly power to stifle their competition, and that IS illegal. > > Part of their behavior really escape me. The whole thing about browser > wars confuses me. Web browsers represent a zero billion dollar a year > market. Why would you risk anything to own it? So they can disrupt standards and make it extremely difficult to create websites that work both with IE and with any non-Windows browser. The most blatant example is that, a full five years after XHTML came out, IE doesn't render it at all. A few years ago, they did the same thing with browser plugins. IE used to support the same plugins that Netscape did. Then MS arbitrarily designed a new way of doing plugins that can only work with Windows (and which, incidentally, opens security holes), and removed support for standard plugins. As a result, plugin makers have to support two different plugins, or else choose between compatibility with IE and compatibility with everybody else. The message -- "co-operate with us, or be punished". -- John W. Kennedy "...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see why it was her." -- "Alias" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Michael Heiming wrote: > Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with > Al Gore and of course the wheel! No fair picking on Al Gore. All he ever claimed was that he was the Congressional point man for the "Information Superhighway", which he was. -- John W. Kennedy Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated! http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/Double%20Falshood/index.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > "John W. Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >>Michael Heiming wrote: >> >>>Let's not forget about the Internet, they invented together with >>>Al Gore and of course the wheel! >> >>No fair picking on Al Gore. All he ever claimed was that he was the >>Congressional point man for the "Information Superhighway", which he >>was. > > > Well, what he said was > > "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the >initiative in creating the Internet." > > What you say he did is what he actually did, but what he said gives a > different impression. I don't think he's careless or stupid, so I > think he said that in order to create the impression in the minds of > the people listening to the interview that he's responsible for the > internet. For "the Internet" as 99% of the American people comprehend it, he /was/ largely responsible, on the political end. The fact that the "Information Superhighway" turned out to be implemented as a massive explosion of the former ARPANet was an unforeseeable accident of history, resulting from the coincidental timing of the "Information Superhighway" initiative, the introduction of the Web, and (to some degree) the ARPANet worm. -- John W. Kennedy "The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a Marcus Aurelius is as naïve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably corrupts." -- James D. Barber (1930-2004) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Mike Meyer wrote: > "David Schwartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>It is not Microsoft's obligation to be "fair". It is Microsoft's >>obligation to push their vision of the future of computing, one with >>Microsoft's products at the center, using anything short of force or fraud. > > > Wrong. The only obligation Microsoft has is to their shareholders. If you genuinely believe that, you are a psychopath. -- John W. Kennedy "The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all." -- G. K. Chesterton. "The Man Who Was Thursday" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Jeroen Wenting wrote: > And were later forced to rescind. The judge who wrote that opinion is well > known for his anti-Microsoft activism. That's an outright lie. -- John W. Kennedy Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated! http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/Double%20Falshood/index.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
Rhino wrote: > "John W. Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Rhino wrote: >> >>>Everyone >>>else was still using typewriters - which was IBM's bread and butter in > > those > >>>days - for their business needs. >> >>Oh dear, no. Not quite. There were, going back decades, machines that >>used punched cards, relays, stepper wheels, and punched cards. It was >>/that/ that was the foundation of IBM's business, and IBM had an >>effective monopoly. This was not altogether due to evil; their one >>competitor, Remington Rand, made machines that were slightly better, but >>had to be factory-programmed, whereas IBM's machines used panels full of >>jumper wires, and the panels themselves could be swapped, so that you >>could have a "program library" of prewired panels. Which would /you/ buy? >> >>Remington Rand made a similar mistake with computers. They wouldn't give >>you a programming manual until you contracted to buy the bloody thing. >>IBM pulled ahead of them during the year when Univac computers were real >>and IBM computers weren't, and they never looked back. >> > > Sorry, my mistake. I knew that IBM had collators and such things back in > those days but I didn't know what percentage of their business they > comprised. I used to work with a long-time IBMer who had started out in > marketing in the 60s or so and I got the impression from him that > typewriters were still the bulk of IBM's business. Perhaps he was just in > that division and didn't know the "big picture". Typewriters may, for all I know to the contrary, have been their main source of profit. But it wasn't what IBM was /about/. They got into the typewriter business by buying up a failing company. IBM also made master/slave clock systems for schools and factories, including tower clocks (the IBM website has some fascinating archive material). They made dictation systems. They even made scales for butchers. But the heart of the business was punched cards, and one of the main reasons they became the leaders in the computer field is that computers were a natural extension of what they were already doing. -- John W. Kennedy "...when you're trying to build a house of cards, the last thing you should do is blow hard and wave your hands like a madman." -- Rupert Goodwins -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
entropy wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... > >>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:54:13 +, John Wingate wrote: >> >> >>>Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>>That would be a good guess, except that Microsoft's predatory and illegal >>>>behaviour began long before OS/2 was even planned. It began in the mid >>>>1970s, with MS DOS. >>> >>>Nitpick: MS-DOS first appeared in 1981. >> >>[slaps head] >> >>Of course it did. > > > The first thing I ever bought of Microsoft's, in 1982 or so, was a > CP/M board for my Apple IIe. > > CP/M, whose programmers to this day defend sticking with 8-bit CPUs > because 'they can't find a 4-bit chip they like'. Yeah, there's some > desktop innovation for you. > > OS/2 1.0 was released in 1987, but the "selling" of it started in > 1985 or so by IBM and Microsoft. It was a 286 OS. Only to the extent that IBM promised a protected-mode operating system in 1984, when the PC-AT came out. > IBM seems to have had a history of squeezing out competition in the > same way Microsoft has, if I recall correctly. IBM was genuinely innovative, and did their best to provide value for money. Microsoft hasn't been able to produce anything but me-too products since the 80's. (Multiplan, Word for DOS, the QBASIC engine, early sponsorship of mouses, and the gutsy decision to morph MS-DOS 1.0, a CP/M quasi-clone, into DOS 2.0, a Unix quasi-clone, are about all I can give them credit for.) -- John W. Kennedy "Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only the obeisance of others! Thus is bad government born! Hold in your heart that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good government shall arise of its own accord! Such is the path of virtue!" -- Kazuo Koike. "Lone Wolf and Cub: Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Tech Geekers and their Style
Xah Lee wrote: > With all the whizbang of styles and features in CSS2, a basic, > necessary, functional layout feature as multi-columns is not there yet. > This is a indication of the fatuousness of the IT industry's > technologies and its people. No, this is an indication of what happens to an industry paralyzed by organized crime and a corrupt government. Microsoft delendum est. -- John W. Kennedy "But now is a new thing which is very old-- that the rich make themselves richer and not poorer, which is the true Gospel, for the poor's sake." -- Charles Williams. "Judgement at Chelmsford" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
CBFalconer wrote: > Chris Head wrote: > > snip ... > >>Why can't we use the Web for what it was meant for: viewing >>hypertext pages? Why must we turn it into a wrapper around every >>application imaginable? > > > Because the Lord High PoohBah (Bill) has so decreed. He has > replaced General bullMoose. Not particularly his doing. SGI was using a Netscape plugin to distribute and install operating-system patches when Billionaire "Intelligent Design" Billy was still denying that TCP/IP had a future. And there are places for web forums: public feedback pages, for example. (Add RSS and/or e-mail and/or NNTP feeds for more advanced users.) -- John W. Kennedy "The grand art mastered the thudding hammer of Thor And the heart of our lord Taliessin determined the war." -- Charles Williams. "Mount Badon" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: On Java's Interface (the meaning of interface in computer programing)
Lew wrote: > But if Xah were being trollish, why didn't they jump on my response and > call me names? I'm not sure he's a proper troll. Unfortunately, he seems to be the kind of person who thinks that reading "Java for Dummies" makes one a self-sufficient expert on Java and philosopher of programming languages to boot, and who is very eager to bestow upon the world all his brilliant insights. At least, that explanation is consistent with his historic behavior. -- John W. Kennedy "Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts" -- J. Michael Straczynski. "Babylon 5", "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: What is Expressiveness in a Computer Language
Rob Warnock wrote:
> Another language which has *neither* latent ("dynamic") nor
> manifest ("static") types is (was?) BLISS[1], in which, like
> assembler, variables are "just" addresses[2], and values are
> "just" a machine word of bits.
360-family assembler, yes. 8086-family assembler, not so much.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
--
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