Re: whoops: create a splash window in python

[Peter Decker]

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:31 AM, Ron Croonenberg  wrote:

> is there a way, in python, to create a splash window and when the program
> has completed disappears by sending a msg to it? (I tried creating two gtk
> windows but gtk_main doesn't seem to return unless it gets closed.)

It's really simple to do this in Dabo (which uses wxPython under the
hood, but is _so_ much more elegant!). When you create your app, add
the following two parameters:

app = dabo.dApp(showSplashScreen=True, splashImage="/path/to/splash.png")

That's it!

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Re: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?

[Peter Decker]

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
>
>> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>>
>>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>>> you're point?  :)
>>
>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>> know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

You mean you prefer the wxPython style of coding? No, I don't know
what's available. Once I discovered that Dabo is the smart way to get
all the benefits of wxPython without the ugly C++ style of coding, I
haven't used raw wxPython.

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Re: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?

[Peter Decker]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately 
> there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.

To be honest, that was my biggest concern when I tried Dabo. However,
after as small a learning curve as one could expect for any
non-trivial tool, it seemed that if I wasn't sure what a particular
way to do something was, the most obvious guess was almost always
correct. Contrast that with developing in wxPython, which has quite a
bit of documentation, which I constantly had to refer to, because the
confusing and inconsistent design.

There is a step by step guide on Google docs written by one of the
authors that is a very helpful approach to using Dabo. The authors are
also very active on the dabo-users list, and any questions are quickly
answered.

So I guess if you need a desktop framework in Python, I would strongly
urge you to check out Dabo and not let the volume of documentation
scare you off.

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Re: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?

[Peter Decker]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:26 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 25 Aug, 03:51, Peter Decker  wrote:
>
>> I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
>> write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
>> examples on their mail list I wanna barf.
>
> I prefer wxFormBuilder. GUIs should be designed visually whenever
> possible.

I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
you're point?  :)

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Re: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?

[Peter Decker]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> P.S. I have no idea why I'm pumping Dabo so much in this though I've never
> used it!

I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
examples on their mail list I wanna barf.

Dabo is powerful, Pythonic, and strongly supported by its developers.
Check it out at http://dabodev.com

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Re: What is the best framework or module in Python for a small GUI based application development?

[Peter Decker]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 12:40 PM, John Fabiani  wrote:

> You might consider Dabo (www.dabodev.com) if access to data is required.

You might also consider it if you like a simple, Pythonic UI. I don't
work with databases, and I love Dabo for creating lots of utilities
for interfacing with, say, text processing scripts, data analysis, or
displaying the results of various web services.

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Re: Easy-to-use Python GUI

[Peter Decker]

On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 1:46 AM, Gabriel Genellina
 wrote:
> En Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:47:07 -0200, Joel Koltner
>  escribió:
>
>> Is there an easy-to-use, "function"-based cross-platform GUI toolkit for
>> Python out there that's a little more sophisticated than EasyGui?
>
> Try Dabo http://dabodev.com/

+1 for Dabo.

I tried just about everything listed by others before I found Dabo a
couple of years ago. Since then creating the GUI for my apps is the
easiest part of the process. Now I can focus on what my app is
supposed to do, rather than how to get a certain widget to look the
way I need it to look.

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Re: [wxpython-users] Dabo 0.9.0 Released

[Peter Decker]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Ed Leafe  wrote:
> We are proud (and relieved!) to finally release Dabo 0.9.0, the first
> official release of the framework in six months. We haven't been taking it
> easy during that period; rather, we made some changes that clean up some
> weak spots in the codebase, and as a result can offer a much more solid
> framework, and are on course for a 1.0 release in the near future.

Thanks for all your great work. I've been using Dabo for a couple of
years now, and it just keeps getting better and better!


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Re: is there really no good gui builder

[Peter Decker]

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 1:35 PM, azrael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> whoever I ask, everyone tells me when it come to python and GUI-s and
> that there is the best way to use WX. I am browsing for the 10th time
> during the last year and I can still not bealive that there is not one
> project to make gui-building easy as maybe in VB for python. Each I
> tried was a pain in the ass when it comes to usability. The only
> descent one I've seen was Boa constructor, but also they have stoped
> in developing. Please tell me that there is at least something
> descent.
> I am freaking out that I need 5 times more time to make a GUI in
> python than in VB.

You should really check out Dabo: http://dabodev.com.

They have a great GUI designer that works interactively, and even
allows you to create database-aware applications without having to
know a ton about SQL. It's a very active and vibrant community, and
the authors are amazingly responsive.

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Re: Database GUI generation from schema

[Peter Decker]

On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Eric Wertman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Perhaps are you talking about dabo ?
>> http://www.dabodev.com
>
> Yes, that was it.  Thanks!  I was a little dissapointed to see that
> the wikipedia entry for that software was deleted.  Is dabo not widely
> used?

Depends on your definition of 'widely'.  :)

I know that there are several hundred subscribers to the dabo-users
list. Perhaps if you asked there you might get a better idea of just
how many people use Dabo.

I'm curious about the Wikipedia entry. I read the deletion page
arguments, but I don't know enough about how the editors decide these
things to comment. I wonder what it would take to get it restored?

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Re: PyGUI as a standard GUI API for Python?

[Peter Decker]

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Diez B. Roggisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You got me wrong. I didn't say it doesn't use the native toolkit under
> various OSes, I'm well aware of that it does.
>
> What I *did* say was that wx API is designed primarily with windows' toolkit
> as base, and as a consequence the API tends to be less functional for other
> toolkits, making it harder to work with it. As the OP was after a "one API
> to rule them all" for GUIs, I pointed that out.
>
> See for example this (arguably somewhat dated) post that illustrates my
> point:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-March/313354.html

OK, that's a little clearer.

That's one of the things that I like about Dabo - it gets rid of the
ugly (IMO) wxPython API and replaces it with a much more consistent
(and, IMO) more Pythonic API. I hated coding in wx, but I love coding
in Dabo.

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Re: PyGUI as a standard GUI API for Python?

[Peter Decker]

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Diez B. Roggisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Palmer schrieb:
>>
>> As anyone knows, the state of Python GUI programming is a little
>> fractured at this time, with many toolkits, wrappers and meta-wrappers
>> dead and alive, with or without documentation.
>>
>> I've come across two projects that have the appeal of striving for
>> simple, pythonic APIs: PyGUI and wax.  The latter is a wrapper around
>> wxPython. It is  lacking documentation but actually quite usable and
>> concise. The other, PyGUI, has an even nicer API and more docs but has
>> relatively few widgets implemented at this time. It also strives for
>> compatibility with several toolkits (two at this time), which I think
>> is the right idea.
>
> I disagree with that. Meta-wrappers like this will always suffer from
> problems, as they have difficulties providing a consistent api. For example
> wx is said to be very windows-toolkit-centric in it's API. Yes I know that
> it works under Linux with GTK, but it does not come as natural .

With all due respect, it seems like you are not terribly familiar with
wxPython. It uses the native UI toolkit for each platform wherever
possible: Aqua on OS X; MFC on Windows and Gtk on Linux. Applications
tend to look 'natural' on each platform, rather than uniform across
platforms, and I believe that this is what most people prefer.

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Re: Is there no single/uniform RDBMS access API module for Python ?

[Peter Decker]

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 1:45 AM, Banibrata Dutta
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > >  Based on this URL http://wiki.python.org/moin/DatabaseInterfaces , is
> it correct to conclude that there is no RDBMS agnostic, single/uniform DB
> access API for Python ?
> > > Something in the lines of JDBC for Java, DBD for Perl etc. ?
> > >  How is the RDBMS change handled for solutions which need to work with
> different RDBMSs ??
> > >
> >
> > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0249/
> >
>
> That appears to be only an API specification. Are there any implementations
> of that ?

You might want to take a look at Dabo (http://dabodev.com). They have
a backend-agnostic interface for working with different databases. I
don't do database apps myself, so I can't comment on how well it
works, but based on the comments of others on the Dabo email lists, it
seems as though it works well enough.

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Re: How is GUI programming in Python?

[Peter Decker]

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Chris Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've always had an interest in Python and would like to dabble in it
>  further.  I've worked on a few very small command line programs but
>  nothing of any complexity.  I'd like to build a really simple GUI app
>  that will work across Mac, Windows, and Linux.  How painful is that
>  going to be?  I used to be really familiar with Java Swing a few years
>  ago.  I imagine it will be similar.
>
>  Next, what would you say is the best framework I should look into?
>  I'm curious to hear opinions on that.

I've found wxPython to be the best all-around choice: it looks right
on Mac, Win and Gtk/Linux, as it uses native controls. The one
downside is that its C++ roots show, and make for somewhat ugly and
unPythonic code.

I've been using the Dabo framework (http://dabodev.com) for over a
year now, and it's great. They use wxPython for the UI, but wrap it in
a consistent and intelligent layer that makes development much simpler
and straightforward.


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Re: Need Help Starting Out

[Peter Decker]

On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 11:10 AM, jmDesktop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I would like to start using Python, but am unsure where to begin.
>  I know how to look up a tutorial and learn the language, but not what
>  all technologies to use.  I saw references to plain Python, Django,
>  and other things.
>
>  I want to use it for web building with database access.  What do I use
>  for that?  Does it matter what I use on the client side (mootools, or
>  whatever)?

If you are going to be developing web applications, there are many
excellent frameworks available, all of which provide database support.
If you are looking to develop desktop applications, you should check
out Dabo (http://dabodev.com). They integrate data access and GUI
controls, making it simple to create database apps. They use wxPython
for the UI layer, but hide all of its ugliness, allowing you to
program to a clean, consistent API for your GUI.


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Re: Where's GUI for Python?

[Peter Decker]

On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  You should also take a look at wxGlade:
>
>  http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/
>
>  which sits on top of wxPython:
>
>  http://wxpython.org/
>
>  which wraps wxWidgets:
>
>  http://www.wxwindows.org/

I have used wxGlade, and while it worked well enough, it didn't seem
to fit my brain. I always found myself "thinking backwards" in order
to guess how the tool needed me to do things.

>  I've found that wxGlade is more usable, currently, than Dabo in it's
>  visual layout tools that help you create the GUI for your apps.

I didn't like that wxGlade generated code. If I later edited the code,
I could no longer use wxGlade to refine the design.

I've been amazed that so many people actually *like* working with
wxPython-style code. I always hated it, and even tried a few times to
make my own wrapper to insulate me from it (it was never very good).
When I found out about Dabo, I took to it instantly and got much more
productive very quickly. I was certain that everyone else would
respond the way that I did.

Obviously that's not what happened. I think that one of the reasons is
that I never coded in C++, so the ALL_CAPS_CONSTANTS style and the
whole getter/setter mentality seemed foreign to me. I'm a Python
programmer, and don't have to switch gears when writing UI code
anymore. I think if you like the sort of code that you need to use
wxPython directly, you're probably perfectly happy to code at that
level. For me, though, everytime I see raw wxPython code these days I
cringe, and am thankful that I don't have to deal with it anymore.

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Re: Where's GUI for Python?

[Peter Decker]

On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 3:35 PM, K Viltersten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm certain there is an API for creating
>  GUI's but as far i can find it in the
>  http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html
>  the only "gui" is in "Guido".

Check out Dabo: http://dabodev.com

It uses the wxPython UI toolkit, but wraps it in a much more Pythonic API.

I've been using Dabo for over a year, and it rocks!!

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Re: Testing whether something is of type Exception

[Peter Decker]

On Jan 24, 2008 5:14 PM, John Nagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How can I tell whether an object is of type Exception?
> At least in Python 2.4, "Exception" is an old-style class, and
> the "type" of Exception objects is "instance".
>
> Clearly "repr" knows; it returns:
> 

isinstance(x, Exception)


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Re: Yet another database question, please

[Peter Decker]

On Nov 30, 2007 9:20 AM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Nov 30, 7:23 am, nmp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello to all. I am only just learning both Python and PyGTK (with Glade).
> > I also need to learn how to use databases in my programs. My preliminary
> > research leads me in the direction of SQLAlchemy, which seems to be what
> > everybody else is using.
> >
> > So, does anyone have a good example that shows how to tie these things
> > toegether? I would like to have the GUI dialogs and treeviews directly
> > interacting with the underlying tables and/or views.
> >
> > [cough]Like Borland Delphi 1.0, in the nineties...[/cough]
> >
> > Another question: I found that in Ubuntu, I was able to install the Glade
> > widgets for libgnomedb (libgnomedb3-glade3). Would these be usable with
> > Python/PyGTK, too? As is too common, the documentation provided is
> > somewhat scarce.
> >
> > Any sort of pointers or suggestions welcome, of course.
>
> You should try Dabo. It sounds like what you want to do and what Dabo
> does dovetails nicely.
>
> http://dabodev.com/

Dabo doesn't work with PyGTK, so if he goes with Dabo, he'll have to
settle for a GUI toolkit that looks native on all platforms instead of
just Gnome.  ;-)

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Re: Oh no, my code is being published ... help!

[Peter Decker]

On Nov 30, 2007 1:19 AM, Tim Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You also have a couple of instances of:
> print("Error Squeezing %s...")
>
> The parentheses serve no purpose here, and are unidiomatic.

I thought that with the eventual dropping of 'print' as a statement in
Python 3, that writing it this way (as if it were a print function) is
preferred, since that will be one fewer thing to convert.

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Re: Very basic, sorting a list ???

[Peter Decker]

On Nov 28, 2007 7:22 PM, stef mientki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> print 'xx3',ordered_list.sort()

The sort() method returns None. It sorts the list in place; it doesn't
return a copy of the sorted list.

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Re: Need some help...

[Peter Decker]

On 10/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I want to then have those numbers
> 13+4+1+7+5 added together to be 30.
>
> How can I do that?
>
> Also, just curious, but, how could I then have the 3 and 0 added
> together to be 3?
>
> Please help me out.

Will you put our names on your homework when you hand it in?

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Re: why doesn't have this list a "reply-to" ?

[Peter Decker]

On 10/16/07, stef mientki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm always have great difficulties, replying to this beautiful and
> helpful list.
>
> When I hit the reply button,
> the message is sent personally to the sender and not to the list.
> I've subscribed to dozen's of lists,
> and all have an "reply-to" address, that points to list and not to the
> individual.

Don't you write your applications so that the default behavior isn't
what is expected?

I'm writing this message to the *list*, not to you. Anyone who gets it
only gets it from the *list*, not from me. Pretending that this
message in your inbox is not from the list is just silly.

The only people who defend this practice usually don't use the email
interface anyway. They're also the people who whine about keeping
replies on the list.

But hey, we have to sacrifice the practical and useful in the name of
enforcing some standards that make little if any sense.

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Re: Cross-platform GUI development

[Peter Decker]

On 10/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My question is if Tix is old hat, what is the GUI toolkit I *should*
> be using for quick-n-dirty cross platform GUI development?

I would heartily recommend Dabo (http://dabodev.com). It wraps the
wxPython toolkit, but eliminates 99% of the hassle in dealing with the
C++ feel of wxPython. And while it is supposed to be for
database-related apps, it works great for UI-only apps, which is what
I use it for.

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Re: An Editor that Skips to the End of a Def

[Peter Decker]

On 9/25/07, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >> Why does it "choose" to modify your position when you exit insert
> >> mode? Does the phrase "broken as designed" mean anything to you?
> >
> > Does the phrase "everything I don't like is stupid" mean anything to
> > you? Honestly, if you don't like it, either propose improvement or
> > stop using it (and complaining about it). Your preference with user
> > interfaces is obviously different. (Personally, I prefer single
> > strokes to breaking my fingers with Esc-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
> > :) )
> >
> Does "this non-Python related twaddle is boring the shit out of me" mean
> anything to you both?

+1 QOTW!!

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Re: Python statements not forcing whitespace is messy?

[Peter Decker]

On 9/15/07, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Machin wrote:
> > On 16/09/2007 8:11 AM, James Stroud wrote:
> >> Steve Holden wrote:
> >>> I don't know why you have a bug up your ass about it, as the
> >>> Americans say.
> >> I think most Americans say "wild hare up your ass".
> >

> I guess I got the metaphor wrong?

Maybe it's a Southern US thing. I've always heard "bug" used; somehow
it doesn't seem that a wild hare would fit!

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Re: Python 3K or Python 2.9?

[Peter Decker]

On 9/12/07, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> TheFlyingDutchman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I am talking about how an author describes in English the "this"
> > pointer/reference in their book on programming C++ or Java.
> >
> > I don't think you will find them saying that under the covers "this"
> > was passed to the method (if in fact it is). They just say that it
> > refers to the current object inside that object's method.
>
> In other words, it's magic, and the behaviour has to be explained so
> the reader knows where the undeclared 'this' comes from.
>
> How is that preferable to the magic of "instance is passed as the
> first argument to a method"?

So everything that isn't passed explicitly is "magic"? I suppose
__builtin__ counts as magic, too?

Define 'self' as a keyword, and its usage becomes no more magical than
'def' or 'break'.

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Re: Database intensive application

[Peter Decker]

On 8/12/07, Rohit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am a novice. I want to know whether Python can be used to develop
> client/server database and web applications like .NET. Which is the
> best book/source to learn Python?

You've already gotten several excellent answers for web applications;
if you need to create client/server desktop database apps, your best
(and AFAIK, only) choice would be Dabo: http://dabodev.com
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Re: highly einteractive editor for python

[Peter Decker]

On 7/10/07, Atul Bhingarde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What I want to see is that it is possible to create a python based
> application in a environment where I can see the results as I am creating
> it, specifically gui widgets (from say TK). This will provide a robust
> mechanism to see gui layout as well.

This isn't for Tk, but for wxPython-based development, but you might
want to look at Dabo's visual tools. Their Class Designer allows you
to visually develop your application's windows, allowing you to focus
on coding the logic instead of having to guess how what your UI will
look like.

Check out the screencasts (hey, how else can you see the advantage of
a visual tool?) at http://dabodev.com/documentation. The best ones to
start with are the two on 'Building a Database App in the Class
Designer'. They show some of the database connectivity stuff, too, but
that's not required. I create apps without databases all the time with
Dabo.
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Re: Restarting a Python Application

[Peter Decker]

On 7/7/07, Kelvie Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ugh.. this would be a repost for the OP, but I forgot to hit "reply to
> all" again.


Imagine if you wrote applications where the default behavior did not
do what was needed 99% of the time: how long do you think you'd be in
business?

The default behavior of replying to the original sender instead of the
list makes no sense. I've read the purist arguments against replying
to the list, but I subscribed to a *list*, not an individual sender.

I know that this post is pointless, since the people who run this list
seem to care more about abstract and misdirected notions of purity
than making things as useful and intelligent as possible, but after
seeing dozens of "please keep your reply on list" responses recently,
I had to vent.

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Re: Tabbed windows Support in Python

[Peter Decker]

On 6/27/07, senthil arasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> Currently iam implementing GUI Framework for supporting Tabbed windows to
> render  different HTML Pages.
> A row of tabs  facilitated for navigation of pages.
>
> Iam expecting some classes like "QTabWidget" whick provided by Qt Libarary.
> After starting my implementation i came to know Tkinter not supports tabbed
> windows
>
> is there anybody to help me  how to proceed further.

Do yourself a favor and start off right: use the Dabo framework for
your UI. You can get information about it at http://dabodev.com. You
can use their Class Designer to create your tabbed windows visually
instead of having to write code.

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Re: PEP 3107 and stronger typing (note: probably a newbie question)

[Peter Decker]

On 6/21/07, Bjoern Schliessmann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stephen R Laniel wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 12:59:28PM -0700,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >> Then you should use another language.
> >
> > This is what I meant about knowing how Internet discussions
> > go.
>
> I agree. I also notice that (rather newbie-) OPs with not-so-simple
> questions are easily offended by technical answers. I'd love to
> know why.

Oh, c'mon. The OP was asking for an explanation, and got an indignant
response. There is a world of difference between explaining *why*
Python is the way it is, and getting the equivalent of a 4-year-old's
"Because!" as a reply.

To someone who admits that he is largely unfamiliar with the language,
it would seem obvious that Python is "lacking" something that is
important in other languages. An explanation as to why this would be
Bad Thing for Python would be a helful response.

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Re: visual gui ides for python/jythpn

[Peter Decker]

On 6/20/07, kromakey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Are there any free visual GUI IDE's available for python/jython, which
> have a drag and drop form designer similar to Visual Studio or
> Delphi ?

Watch these screencasts, and then check out Dabo:

http://leafe.com/screencasts/dataenvironment1.html
http://leafe.com/screencasts/dataenvironment2.html

Dabo's site is http://dabodev.com.

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Re: dabo framework dependancies

[Peter Decker]

On 5/22/07, daniel gadenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm considering moving over to dabo for wxpython development.
> However I do not write traditional database applications
> à la foxpro (I'm a 20 years user of fox...) anymore.
> Only xml-fed applications.
>
> I'm a bit hesitant to jump onboard since dabo seemns to carry
> over its own lot of database connectivity dependancy.
>
> Can you reasonably use dabo for plain datafree application?

That's exactly how I use it. I write apps that don't use database
servers, and don't have any database programs installed. I just want
the dabo.ui stuff, since it makes wxPython so easy to work with.

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Re: Python and GUI

[Peter Decker]

On 5/21/07, Paul McNett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Shameless plug: consider using Dabo on top of wxPython - we feel it
> makes wxPython even easier and more pythonic, but admittedly there's a
> bit of a learning curve there too. Even though Dabo is a full
> application framework originally meant for desktop database
> applications, it is modular and you can choose to only use the UI
> bits... http://dabodev.com

I second this. I used (and struggled!) with wxPython for over a year.
The results were great, but I hated coding it. I switched to the Dabo
UI wrapper, and stuff that used to take me a day to create is now done
in an hour or two.

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Re: GUI tutorial

[Peter Decker]

On 5/13/07, John K Masters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can someone point me in the direction of a good tutorial on programming
> python with a GUI? I'm just starting out with python and have written a
> few scripts successfully but would like to add a graphical front end to
> them to make it easier for my work colleagues, most of whom have never
> used a command line, to use.

Take a look at the Dabo screencasts. They illustrate very well how
easy it is to create GUIs using visual tools instead of in code. Of
course, you can still create them in code if you like, but where's the
fun in that?  :)

http://dabodev.com/documentation

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Re: About Trolltech QT OpenSource license.

[Peter Decker]

On 10 Apr 2007 12:29:36 -0700, king kikapu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi to all,
>
> i am coming from the Microsoft (.net) world and at the quest of
> finding the right GUI toolkit that i can use from Python, i have two
> obvious choices to choose from: wxPython and Qt.
>
> Both are looking very good. Qt has Qt designer, a tool that really
> reminds me of the forms designers that we have in VS.Net.The
> productivity someone can gain from tools like these can be really
> astonished.

There is another alternative: Dabo, which wraps the wxPython toolkit.
It has a GUI designer, although not as polished as the Qt Designer.
Check out some of their screencasts to see their tools in action. You
can find them at http://dabodev.com/documentation

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Re: Resume of Steve Snow : Database SQL Applications Programmer

[Peter Decker]

On 4/4/07, stevesnow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --
>
>  Please forward this work experience & skills summary
>  to your Database & software development, MIS/IT/Software Department for 
> review.
>
> --
>
>  Here is my full resume in Microsoft Word format.

You forgot to include your spamming experience.

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Re: IDE for wxPython

[Peter Decker]

On 3/17/07, Ghirai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can anyone suggest an IDE for wxPython?
> Or an IDE for TkInter?

Don't know about Tkinter, but for wxPython, I would suggest Dabo. You
get their visual tools, along with a more robust and consistent
wrapper around the wxPython API.

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Re: Help Required for Choosing Programming Language

[Peter Decker]

On 19 Feb 2007 09:56:06 -0800, Mark Morss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Good grief.  I suppose it is Microsoft to whom we owe the idea that
> there could be such a thing as a "GUI based" programming language.

Who do we blame for the idea that everyone in the world should be able
to express themselves in perfect English without confusion?

It was obvious what the OP meant. He's looking for something akin to
VB, but in Python.

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Re: Help Required for Choosing Programming Language

[Peter Decker]

On 2/17/07, Stef Mientki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Some examples:
> - Creating a treeview (like in the M$ explorer), with full edit capabilities 
> and full drag & drop
> facilities: Delphi takes about 40 lines of code (most of them even ^C ^V).
> - Creating a graphical overview of relations between database tables, which 
> can be graphical
> manipulated by the user (like in M$ Access): Delphi 20 lines of code.
> I wonder what this costs in Python ?

You really need to get your thinking straightened out. You can't
compare Delphi to Python; Delphi is a product that uses Pascal as its
language, while Python is a language. When you compare a product for a
language to an entire language, it makes the rest of your arguments
look silly.

BTW, you said you looked at the Dabo Class Designer - did you know
that that tool itself was written in Dabo?

The power is there. The fact that you couldn't completely understand
it in a brief review says more about you than it does about Python,
wxPython or Dabo.

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Re: Help Required for Choosing Programming Language

[Peter Decker]

On 2/16/07, Stef Mientki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In one of the other threads, Dabo was meant as a GUI designer,
> I tried it yesterday,
> and although it looks very promising,
> at the moment this is not a graphical design environment,
> just a complex (compared to Delphi) design environment with graphical 
> feedback.
> Just my 2 cents ;-)

Dabo is indeed a work in progress. They are developing the various
tools now to get people started, but have plans for a full graphical
IDE in the manner of Delphi or Visual Studio.

You can complain that this free tool developed by volunteers in their
spare time isn't as polished as a commercial tool backed by large
corporations that can afford large paid staffs.

Or you could contribute.

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Re: Bush, yank bastards kicked by india in their arse Re: *POLL* How many sheeple believe in the 911 fairy tale and willing to accept an Orwellian doublespeak and enslavement world ?

[Peter Decker]

On 16 Feb 2007 04:34:08 -0800, Fuzzyman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You're a racist malicious moron.

You mis-spelled 'troll'.

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Re: "Correct" db adapter

[Peter Decker]

On 1 Feb 2007 02:13:01 -0800, king kikapu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> But one of the reasons that i started learning Python, is to NOT to be
> tied-up again with ANY company or specific product again (i had enough
> MS addiction over these years...). So, based on this direction, i am
> using pyodbc, which is DB-API2 compliant and i suppose that the code i
> write this way, will have little changes to use another db in the
> future.

I don't know if this product will meet your needs, but I've read
recently on the Dabo list that they've added support for Microsoft SQL
Server. I don't work with databases, so I have no idea how this might
compare to what you're looking at, but I do know that in general their
code is solid and the authors are responsive. So you might want to
check out Dabo:
http://dabodev.com


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Re: My python programs need a GUI, wxPython or PyQt4?

[Peter Decker]

On 1/23/07, Daniel Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, I've reached the point where my building pipeline tools actually
> needs to be used by other people in my company. By this reason I
> actually need to think about the usability, and I've come to the
> conclusion that I need a GUI. So, which of the two packages should I
> learn, and which one is easier to pick up?
> Thanks in advance!

I strongly prefer the look and feel of wxPython, but I have to write
apps that run on Windows and Linux, and wxPython looks great on both.

If you do go with wxPython, I'd strongly recommend using the Dabo
framework, as they wrap the raw and somewhat ugly wxPython code
(inherited from its C++ roots) into something much more Pythonic and
consistent. Apps that took me all day in wxPython take me a couple of
hours using the dabo.ui module.

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Re: Projects anyone?

[Peter Decker]

On 16 Jan 2007 04:07:50 -0800, placid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for anyone who is working on a project at the moment that
> needs help (volunteer). The last project i worked on personally was
> screen-scraping MySpace profiles (read more at the following link)
>
> http://placid.programming.projects.googlepages.com/screen-scrapingmyspaceprofiles
>
>
> but that didn't go all to well, so im kinda bored and need something to
> do, with Python. So any suggestions anyone?

I know the Dabo folks (http://dabodev.com) are always looking for
help, although that is not a simple one-trick project, so it might not
be what you're looking for.

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Re: How to invoke parent's method?

[Peter Decker]

On 7 Jan 2007 01:33:32 -0800, Frank Millman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The essential point is that you save a reference to the frame when you
> create the panel. Then when the button is clicked you can use the
> reference to call the frame's Close method.

Or you could look into Dabo. This is one of those common needs that
has been built into the framework. Any object on a form (a wx.Frame)
can simple reference 'self.Form' to get a reference to the containing
frame. Controls that are contained within other controls (such as
inside panels or notebook pages) can always reference that container
with 'self.Parent'.

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Re: DOS, UNIX and tabs

[Peter Decker]

On 1/1/07, Tom Plunket <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maybe I'm also weird, but I use a variable-pitch font when programming
> in Python.  So a "tab equals some number of spaces" really isn't useful
> to me.  My setup is, "tab equals this much space".

A year ago I would have thought you were weird, but after reading a
post by Ed Leafe, one of the creators of Dabo about using proportional
fonts for readability, I thought I'd try it out, thinking that it was
pretty wacky. Turns out that after a very brief adjustment period, I
liked it! I've been using proportional fonts ever since, and have
found only one drawback: code that is indented with spaces looks
butt-ugly. I'm glad I switched to tabs for my code.

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Re: Stani's Python Editor - questions

[Peter Decker]

On 12/21/06, Franz Steinhaeusler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Does not work for me! I'm getting messages like this:
> >
> >python:3255): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_container_remove: assertion
> >`GTK_IS_TOOLBARcontainer) || widget->parent == GTK_WIDGETcontainer)' failed
> >python:3255): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_container_remove: assertion
> >`GTK_IS_TOOLBARcontainer) || widget->parent == GTK_WIDGETcontainer)' failed
>
> Same similar error messages with DrPy.
> I would try to update to a higher wxPython version and/or reporting this
> to the wxPython user mailing list.

FWIW, this has been reported for ages on the wxPython list. It's a bug
in the Gtk implementation that generates these scary-looking warnings,
but doesn't seem to cause any real problems.

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Re: Good Looking UI for a stand alone application

[Peter Decker]

On 12/18/06, Luc Heinrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > You're full of it. I routinely write GUI apps in Dabo for both Windows
> > and Linux users, and they look just fine on both platforms.
>
> Oh, I'm sure you do. Now go try to run one of your Dabo apps on a Mac
> and see how it looks/feels... :>

I don't have a Mac, although I would certainly like one. But one of
the two authors of Dabo is a Mac user, and says that he does all his
development on a Mac, and then tests it on the other platforms. Look
at the screencasts on the Dabo site - most of them are recorded on OS
X.

> Here's a hint directly taken from the Dabo homepage: "It also suffers
> from the same display limitations on some platforms (most notably OS X),
> but these should improve as the underlying toolkits improve."

OK, it's true: you don't have 100% access to the lickable Aqua stuff
that a Cocoa app might be able to use. But paged controls use native
Aqua tabs; progress bars are native Aqua bars, buttons are native Aqua
buttons... Perfect? Of course not. But stating that it sucks is a load
of crap.

> > Using sizers is the key; layouts just 'look right' no matter what the native
> > fonts and control sizes are.
>
> No, sizers are a tiny part of a much bigger problem. Sizers might be the
> key to solve parts of the "look" problem, they don't address any of the
> "feel" problem.

Huh? Based on what I've seen on the screencasts, the apps look better
on the Mac than they do on XP. How should I judge how they "feel"?
SIzers automatically take care of font metric differences and native
control size differences.

> But you clearly have a point here, so let me rephrase: "Crossplatform
> toolkits/frameworks suck. All of them. No exception. UNLESS you only
> target the lowest common denominator, aka Windows and its Linux
> followers".
>
> Now, the OP *explicitely* said that "[his] requirement is that the
> application needs to look as good on Windows as on the Apple Mac", so
> the rephrasing does not apply in this case. So here's a last try:

Well, I don't think *anything* looks as good on Windows as it does on
a Mac, whether it is from a platform-specific toolkit such as Winforms
or a cross-platform toolkit like wxPython. If you want it to look as
good on Windows, you'll have to use VNC or something like that.

> "Crossplatform toolkits/frameworks suck. All of them. No exception.
> ESPECIALLY if one of your target is Mac OS".

Such self-important pronouncements would be better received if you
brought them down the mountain on stone tablets.
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Re: Good Looking UI for a stand alone application

[Peter Decker]

On 12/17/06, Luc Heinrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > My requirement is that the application needs to look as good on Windows as
> > on the Apple Mac
>
> Crossplatform GUIs are a myth, you *always* end up with a lowest common
> denominator (aka Windows) which makes your application look like crap on
> other platforms. And when the toolkit/framework only makes it look like
> semi-crap, it makes it *feel* like crap.

You're full of it. I routinely write GUI apps in Dabo for both Windows
and Linux users, and they look just fine on both platforms. Using
sizers is the key; layouts just 'look right' no matter what the native
fonts and control sizes are.

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Re: Good Looking UI for a stand alone application

[Peter Decker]

On 12/16/06, The Night Blogger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can someone recommend me a good API for writing a sexy looking (Rich UI like
> WinForms) shrink wrap application
>
> My requirement is that the application needs to look as good on Windows as
> on the Apple Mac

For my money (even though it's free!), you can't beat Dabo. It uses
the wxPython UI toolkit, so it looks great on Mac and Windows (Linux,
too), since it uses native UI widgets on each platform. They even have
tools to design your visual classes interactively.

Check it out at http://dabodev.com.
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Re: python + database book

[Peter Decker]

On 12/4/06, Giuseppe Di Martino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > new to python.
> > i work with db heavily.
> >
> > any good  book for python + database?
>
> Evaluate http://www.sqlalchemy.org/ and his documentation

If you are looking to work with desktop apps, you should also check
out Dabo: http://dabodev.com

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Re: client/server design and advice

[Peter Decker]

On 1 Dec 2006 10:37:39 -0800, John Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Now...if only i could master python gui programming and development ;)

> You would short change yourself if you don't check out the other
> packages such as Pythoncard, and Dabo.

FWIW, Dabo has all of the database connectivity stuff built-in. With
PythonCard, you have to roll your own.

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Re: How to choose the right GUI toolkit ?

[Peter Decker]

On 9 Nov 2006 09:13:00 -0800, Dan Lenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Nick and John S., thank you for the tip on wxPython!  I'll look into it
> for my next project.  I too would avoid Qt, not because of the GPL but
> simply because I don't use KDE under Linux and because Qt is not well
> supported under Cygwin or on native Windows.  I too like to learn from
> actual printed books, so I'll check this one out.  O'Reilly should do a
> book on Python GUI stuff!
>
> John H.: thanks for pointing out pythoncard.  This looks like it might
> be an excellent substitute for LabView-like GUIs, which all my
> coworkers like.  I personally refuse to read or write LabView code, on
> the grounds that its syntax causes severe brain damage and is
> completely unportable.  But that's a flame for another thread, so to
> speak...

You should also take a look at Dabo. Like PythonCard, it wraps
wxPython, but it completely does away with the whole getter/setter
approach, the ugly ALL_CAPS_CONSTANTS that wxPython unfortunately
inherited from its C++ roots, and all those other non-Pythonic
irritants. While Dabo is a complete 3-tier framework for developing
database apps, you can just use the GUI tier. I don't do database
stuff, and so I just use the dabo.ui module.

Their URL is http://dabodev.com.

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Re: python GUIs comparison (want)

[Peter Decker]

On 4 Nov 2006 08:23:40 -0800, Mudcat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have been using Tkinter for several years now. Recently I have been
> thinking about switching to something else that may have a sharper
> appearance. However I'm not sure what that may be, and if that
> something else is *that* much better than what I'm already using.
>
> Does everyone agree that wxPython looks best on Windows? I've also read
> in a couple of places where Dabo looks pretty good as well.

Dabo uses wxPython, so it looks exactly the same. The difference is in
the coding: writing stuff in wxPython is like writing C++ code, while
creating GUIs in Dabo is like writing Python code. Dabo also has a lot
of tools for creating GUIs visually, but even if you don't use those,
Dabo is a huge improvement over raw wxPython.

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Re: wxPython TextCtrl - weird scrolling behavior

[Peter Decker]

On 1 Nov 2006 04:54:32 -0800, abcd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> thanks for the feedback, I am watching the screencasts, which are
> helping already.  I think I will try out the Dabo GUI tool since it
> uses wxPython...and see if I can get the code I need from it.

I think you'll be very impressed. Those guys are creating an excellent
tool, and I've found that I can create pretty complicated UIs in a
very, very short time with the Class Designer.

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Re: Handling emails

[Peter Decker]

On 10/26/06, Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > I agree it's a pain, but Fulvio may not have it in his power to
> > switch the header off. Mail admins do some incredibly stupid things.
>
> There is always the option to not send messages to this list using
> that mail server. I don't care what option is taken, so long as the
> useless and obnoxious headers on his messages stop.
>
> --
>  \ Lucifer: "Just sign the Contract, sir, and the Piano is yours." |
>   `\ Ray: "Sheesh! This is long! Mind if I sign it now and read it |
> _o__) later?"  -- http://www.achewood.com/ |
> Ben Finney
>

Ah, but obnoxious footers are OK, I guess.

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Re: python GUIs comparison (want)

[Peter Decker]

On 24 Oct 2006 16:38:28 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You load dabo and then load your program through dabo...  That
> was all I needed to know to disregard it.

Wow - inaccurate and proud of it!

Your loss.

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Re: python GUIs comparison (want)

[Peter Decker]

On 10/24/06, Kevin Walzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> wxPython:
> Pro: Popular, actively developed, wraps native widgets, looks great on
> Windows, commercial-friendly license
> Con: Based on C++ toolkit; docs assume knowledge of C++; some think
> coding style is too much like C++; complex to build and deploy on Linux
>  (wraps Gtk)

I agree with this assessment. I hated writing the code in wxPython,
since it was very ugly, with tons of getters/setters lots of constants
and ids WRITTEN_IN_ALL_CAPS. Yuck.

That's why I think you and others are doing a grave disservice by
ignoring Dabo. With Dabo, you get the best-looking toolkit across
platforms (wxPython), but a clean, Pythonic API with none of the C++
crud. I've been a dozen times more productive since I switched to
doing my UI code in dabo.ui, and even better, I don't have to
constantly look up the names of the appropriate constants, etc. - the
API is that much more consistent.

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Re: python GUIs comparison (want)

[Peter Decker]

On 23 Oct 2006 22:07:39 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Now i began to learn GUI programming. There are so many
> choices of GUI in the python world, wxPython, pyGTK, PyQT,
> Tkinter, .etc, it's difficult for a novice to decide, however.
> Can you draw a comparison among them on easy coding, pythonish design,
> beautiful and generous looking, powerful development toolkit, and
> sufficient documentation, .etc.
> It's helpful for a GUI beginner.
> Thank you.

I've used several, and I think that Dabo (http://dabodev.com) is the
best choice. Dabo is an entire application framework, but you can just
use the dabo.ui parts if that's all you need. Then when you are no
longer a beginner and you want to develop more complex apps, you won't
need to change tools.

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Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?

[Peter Decker]

On 22 Oct 2006 17:26:55 -0700, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can you also tell when you're wrong?
>
> I checked out Wax last week for the first time; I hit a snag and got an
> answer from the lead developer within a day, along with a pointer to
> the latest dev version.
>
> But don't let communication get in the way of that six sense you've got
> going there :)

I've been following Wax for over two years. You can count the number
of new features that have been added to it in that time on one hand.
Hans is a great guy and has written some great stuff, but Wax is but a
small side project of his. I'm sure he'll support it excellently, but
I don't think I would hold my breath waiting for him to him to release
a grid that does, say, 1/10th of what the Dabo grid can do.

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Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?

[Peter Decker]

On 22 Oct 2006 02:40:17 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> With some cleaning and improving, I think wax
> (http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/wax.html ) can become good too.

I looked at Wax, but the author doesn't seem to be too involved with
it. It looks like a cool idea that he developed far enough to make it
work, and then got bored with it. I mean hell, there isn't even a
workable grid class that does anything differently than the wxPython
grid does!

Dabo's implementation is already llight years ahead of Wax, despite
entering the game much later. When you've worked with lots of open
source projects, you can tell which are actively being developed and
which are dead or comatose; you can tell which have a growing
community and which are stagnant; you can tell which are worth
investing your time into learning and/or contributing to, and which
are dead-ends. Wax feels like a real dead-end to me.

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Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?

[Peter Decker]

On 21 Oct 2006 08:26:56 -0700, sturlamolden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That leaves you with wxPython (utterly ugly API, remninds me of MFC and
> Motif), PyQt (very expensive unless GPL is not a show stopper) or
> PyObjC.

I too hated the wxPython API, but loved how it looked. And since I
need things to run cross-platform (in my case, Linux and Windows), I
held my breath and coded in wxPython, because the results were well
worth it.

Now that I've discovered Dabo, which wraps wxPython, hiding the C++
ugliness under a very Pythonic API, I have the best of both worlds. I
get to code naturally, and the results look great.

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Re: Book about database application development?

[Peter Decker]

On 10/15/06, Wolfgang Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What I'm interested in is rather how to connect a GUI to a database, with
> quite a bit of application logic in between. And how to do it well.

You've described Dabo perfectly. Have you looked into it yet? It's
written by a couple of database application developers.

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Re: IDE

[Peter Decker]

On 10/13/06, Theerasak Photha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/13/06, giuseppe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What is the better IDE software for python programming?

I like SPE. They really work the way I like to work.

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Re: Python component model

[Peter Decker]

On 10/12/06, Peter Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter Decker wrote:
> > I think you should take a good look at Dabo and the visual tools they
> > are creating.
>
> Thanks for the hint, Peter. I've heard of Dabo and it's on my list of
> things to be inspected. Perhaps my postings have been misunderstood. I don't
> feel uneasy with Python. I'm using it since 4 years and know how to find
> the tools I need. But I feel uneasy with an excessive readiness of some
> c.l.p participants to accept Python as it is and even to react defiantly
> on friendly suggestions how to make Python a more obvious choice for
> newcomers. I think this is important for Python's survival.

I think that Python is a 3GL. Dabo is a 4GL version of Python, in that
its UI is part of its core API.

Dabo is written by people with visual tools backgrounds, and they are
definitely aiming toward that market. They are looking to the same
niche that Visual Basic, Visual FoxPro, Filemaker, Delphi, and other
similar products are addressing.

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Re: is there an easy way to create a database on the fly and let the user input values

[Peter Decker]

On 12 Oct 2006 15:50:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> dabo looks intresting but I am just looking for the simplist way and
> having to load from thier thing just complicates stuff.  I could
> probily just use wx.grid but examples are scarce, I have seen some
> simple dbm stuff but this is an old book I am reading now

You can't get much simpler than Dabo. The wx.Grid is a real PITA to
work with, but the Dabo.dGrid wrapper makes things so much easier.
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Re: Standard Forth versus Python: a case study

[Peter Decker]

On 12 Oct 2006 04:40:32 -0700, Paul Rubin
<"http://phr.cx"@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Paul Rubin  writes:
> > > fun median {
> > >  var x = 0.
> > >   while( *p++) {
> > > if( (*p) > x) x = *p.
> > >   }
> > >   return x.
> > > }
> >
> > I count two variables, p and x.
>
> Also, that finds the maximum, not the median.  I had stopped examining
> it after seeing it used more than one variable.

Um... isn't 'p' the list in question? There is only one variable used
for the calculation of the return value (yes, it's a maximum), and
that's 'x'.
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Re: Python component model

[Peter Decker]

On 11 Oct 2006 20:08:12 -0700, Ilias Lazaridis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Well, then, why not contribute? Or are you waiting for everyone else
> > to do it for you?
>
> I've contributed already (my contructive criticism).
>
> It's up to the team to react.

Wow! What a contribution! Amazing that Dabo hasn't taken over the
world with that sort of help pouring in!

Anybody can criticize. It's easy to find fault; it's much harder to
create something valuable.

I saw the references to your being a troll, and thought I'd give you
the benefit of the doubt. Guess I'm still too optimistic.

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Re: Python component model

[Peter Decker]

On 11 Oct 2006 18:56:30 -0700, Ilias Lazaridis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> yes, an interesting tool.
>
> But to get more attention and developers, the project needs to be
> polished.
>
> really unattractive resources:
>
> http://dabodev.com
> http://case.lazaridis.com/wiki/DaboAudit

Well, then, why not contribute? Or are you waiting for everyone else
to do it for you?

It really grinds my gears when people take something that involves
hundreds if not thousands of hours of time that is offered to them for
free, and then nitpicks on something completely tangential. If you
want a polished website, then offer to contribute one! Don't whine
about a couple of developers who are doing amazing things in their
spare time while you're contributing absolutely nothing to the
community.

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Re: Python component model

[Peter Decker]

On 10/10/06, Peter Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I for my part would be happy to see a Delphi-like RAD tool for Python,
> a reference implementation for web programming as part of the standard
> library, Jython 2.5, Python for PHP or whatever attracts new programmers.

I think you should take a good look at Dabo and the visual tools they
are creating. While I would be the first one to admit that they are
not polished to the level of Delphi, they are pretty amazing for a
couple of guys working in their spare time! If we could get more of
the community to contribute to this project, I don't think that there
would be any other RAD tool that would come close.
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Re: Where is Python in the scheme of things?

[Peter Decker]

On 10/4/06, gord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As a complete novice in the study of Python, I am asking myself where this
> language is superior or better suited than others. For example, all I see in
> the tutorials are lots of examples of list processing, arithmetic
> calculations - all in a DOS-like environment.
>
> What is particularly disappointing is the absence of a Windows IDE,
> components and an event driven paradigm. How does Python stand relative to
> the big 3, namely Visual C++, Visual Basic and Delphi? I realize that these
> programming packages are quite expensive now while Python is free (at least
> for the package I am using - ActivePython).

You might want to check out Dabo. It's a framework written by a couple
of guys coming from the world of Microsoft dev tools, and they seem to
be targeting their visual tools to that market. Their website is
http://dabodev.com.

I've been using Dabo for a while, both with and without the visual
tools, and it's amazing stuff.

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Re: Mega Newbie Questions: Probably FAQs

[Peter Decker]

On 8/15/06, Zeph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Framework for what kind of apps? Web, native GUI, client-server, etc?
> > MVC is an abstract architecture rather than a specific implementation.
> > Even so, many implementations rarely employ a purely MVC design.
>
> Native GUI with some client-server abilities. Basically, it's a
> database-inventory sort of thing with some pretty intense reporting.
> Call it a productivity app--no need for intense graphics or massive
> computation. Fundamentally, what I want is to be able to distribute a
> "regular app", mainly for the Windows market, but I also want to offer
> it to the Mac and Linux crowd--on one code base if possible.

You should really check out Dabo. It is an application framework
designed to create database apps in a really Pythonic way. Probably
the best way to start is to check out the screencasts - they really
show just how cool Dabo is. I'd start with the one on quickly creating
a database app:
http://leafe.com/screencasts/appwizard.html

The rest of them are listed at http://dabodev.com/documentation. I've
been using the UI module from Dabo for over a year, and it's
rock-solid.


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Re: TextCtrl focus events in wxWidgets

[Peter Decker]

On 19 Jul 2006 04:55:24 -0700, Simon Hibbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Frank Millman wrote:
>
> > Try self.PlantCtrl.Bind(wx.EVT_KILL_FOCUS, self.OnUpdatePlantCtrl)
>
> And Voila! It works. Many, many thanks.
>
> Any idea what is going on?

Your first attempt used self.Bind, which binds the kill focus event of
self to the method. This version binds the kill focus event of the
*text control* to the method, which is what you want.

I used to get bitten by this a lot, but now I've switched to using the
dabo.ui module of Dabo to do my GUI stuff. It has the concept of
binding changes in controls to update events, which was needed for
database-type apps, but you can bind a control to any property of any
object. You should really check it out if you need this sort of
interactive updating in your app. http://dabodev.com.

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Re: Feed wxComboBox with dictionary/hash

[Peter Decker]

On 22 Jun 2006 06:45:25 -0700, Roland Rickborn
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My first question:
> how can a wx.ComboBox be fed by a dictionary?

This is one of those annoying things about wxPython that made me so
happy to switch to using the dabo.ui wrapper for wxPython instead. You
can set up the dabo.ui.dComboBox like this, given a dictionary 'dd':

cb = dabo.ui.dComboBox(self)
cb.Choices = dd.Values()
cb.Keys = dd

You can then get the selected item via the StringValue property, or
its associated key via the KeyValue property. That's it. Simple.

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Re: using import * with GUIs?

[Peter Decker]

On 5/31/06, John Salerno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I guess if I'm going to learn a GUI, I might as well jump right into
> wxPython from the beginning.

May I recommend that you take a look at the Dabo project? While they
have a full application framework for creating database applications,
you can easily just use the dabo.ui module, which wraps wxPython. This
eliminates most of the C++ cruft that wxPython inherited from
wxWidgets, and makes for a much more Pythonic experience.

I worked with wxPython for a couple of years, and looked at Dabo based
on a recommendation on the wxPython list. Since then, I haven't
written a single app using raw wxPython; I use the dabo.ui module for
all my GUI applications. It gives you all the advantages of wxPython,
but it just works better.

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Re: John Bokma harassment

[Peter Decker]

On 24 May 2006 15:54:56 GMT, John Bokma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And ain't it cool that reporting Xah's abuse might stop both?

C'mon - admit it! you hafta be a Republican with a hardon for Bush! 

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Re: John Bokma harassment

[Peter Decker]

On 24 May 2006 15:26:12 GMT, John Bokma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Ant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I have no particular affinity for Xah's views, but what does get up my
> > nose is usenet Nazism.
>
> That's because you're clueless.

Sounds like your one of those Bush ass-lickers who think that being
different is a crime.

Intelligent people can handle weirdos. It's only uptight jerks who
want everyone to fall into line with state/corporate policy. Sunshine
is the best disinfectant.
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Re: Tabs are *MISUNDERSTOOD*, *EVIL* AND *STUPID*, end of discussion. (Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code)

[Peter Decker]

On 19 May 2006 07:18:03 GMT, Duncan Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Can you point at any significant body of publically visible Python code
> which uses tabs exclusively? All of the Python projects I've ever been
> involved with use spaces only as a convention (although as I pointed out in
> my previous post, some with more success than others).

Dabo.  http://dabodev.com

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Re: Tabs are *MISUNDERSTOOD*, *EVIL* AND *STUPID*, end of discussion. (Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code)

[Peter Decker]

On 5/17/06, Andy Sy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Uh, I should know better than to try to educate, but FYI: using the
> > same argument construction and having it reach an invalid conclusion
> > suffices to show that the original construction is invalid, and thus
> > the original conclusion is suspect.
>
>
> I guess this *REALLY* is how a misguided tab user exercises his 'logic':
> Syntax replication (e.g. so-called 'argument construction') is enough,
> semantics don't matter.
>
> ROTFLMAO!

My instincts were correct: it is foolhardy to attempt to educate closed minds.



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Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code

[Peter Decker]

On 17 May 2006 07:14:33 -0700, Bill Pursell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think you unfairly snipped context on me.  I was directly responding
> to the assertion that vi is unable to handle tabs well.

I was *agreeing* with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

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Re: Tabs are *MISUNDERSTOOD*, *EVIL* AND *STUPID*, end of discussion. (Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code)

[Peter Decker]

On 5/17/06, Andy Sy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter Decker wrote:
> > On 5/17/06, Andy Sy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> If tabs are easily misunderstood, then they are a MISfeature
> >> and they need to be removed.
> >
> > I don't seem to understand your point in acting as a dictator.
> > Therefore, you are a MISfeature and need to be removed.
>
> Is the above an example of how a tab-user exercises 'logic'...?

Uh, I should know better than to try to educate, but FYI: using the
same argument construction and having it reach an invalid conclusion
suffices to show that the original construction is invalid, and thus
the original conclusion is suspect.

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Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code

[Peter Decker]

On 17 May 2006 06:51:19 -0700, Bill Pursell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In my experience, the people who complain about the use
> of tabs for indentation are the people who don't know
> how to use their editor, and those people tend to use
> emacs.

In my experience, whenever there is a 'religious' issue like this, one
side tends to be quick to pronounce the other as 'evil', and insist
that everyone do things their way, while the other tends to feel
comfortable with people having their own preferences. If I ever find
myself on the side of the former, I always wonder if I'm missing
something obvious.

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Re: Tabs are *MISUNDERSTOOD*, *EVIL* AND *STUPID*, end of discussion. (Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code)

[Peter Decker]

On 5/17/06, Andy Sy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If tabs are easily misunderstood, then they are a MISfeature
> and they need to be removed.

I don't seem to understand your point in acting as a dictator.
Therefore, you are a MISfeature and need to be removed.

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Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code

[Peter Decker]

On 5/15/06, Edward Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If such tools are lacking, use substitutes in the meantime.  Don't allow any
> code to be checked in where a line departs more than one tab indentation
> level from its neighbors.  It's not perfect, but it eliminates the worst
> offenses.  Good enough often is.

I've recently adopted the Dabo convention of using two indent levels
to indicate continued lines, which helps distinguish such lines from
the indented blocks below them. But other than that case, one tab it
is!
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Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code

[Peter Decker]

On 5/15/06, Brian Quinlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The problem with tabs is that people use tabs for alignment e.g.
>
> def foo():
>->query = """SELECT *
>->  ->  ->   FROM sometable
>->  ->  ->   WHERE condition"""
>
> Now I change my editor to use 8-space tabs and the code is all messed
> up. Of course, a very disciplined group of people could be trained to
> never use tabs except to align with the current block level but, in
> practice, that doesn't work. Therefore tabs are bad.

And those of us who hate cutesy alignment like that think that people
who do it are therefore bad.

Spaces look like crap, too, when using proportional fonts.

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Re: Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code

[Peter Decker]

On 5/15/06, Chris Klaiber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The problem comes when the author prefers a smaller tab width than what my
> editor is set to. Sure, I could change it for that file, but what if I'm
> reading a whole directory? Sure, I could change the default setting in my
> editor, but what if I'm browsing multiple projects in the same day? Sure, I
> could find a way to set the tab width based on the directory I'm currently
> in, but by now I'm annoyed and simply replacing tabs with spaces is a far
> simpler solution that requires zero configuration on my part.

Funny, I was going to say that the problem is when the author prefers
a font with a differntly-sized space. Some of us got rid of editing in
fixed-width fonts when we left Fortran.

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Re: GUI in python

[Peter Decker]

On 29 Mar 2006 14:20:03 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am a python newbie and have used it for about a month. I want to make
> a simple GUI app in Python ( I take input form user and do processing
> and show results).
>
> Which gui package is good for me. I need to do it quick and I would not
> want a long learning curve.
>
> I was taking look at wxPython, pyGTK etc.
>
>
> Please suggest me the most simplest and easiest one as I dont need
> super cool aesthetics just a plain simple GUI app.

You might want to look at Dabo. Not only do they wrap wxPython to make
its API more Pythonic, but they now have visual design tools that make
it very simple to create a UI. http://dabodev.com

I've been using Dabo for a few months now, and can't say enough good
things about it.
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Re: Cheese Shop: some history for the new-comers

[Peter Decker]

On 3/16/06, Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But the usual distinction (on any project web page) is
> "User" versus "Developer".
>
> Who is a "user" of Python? That would be you, right? It
> would be fairly silly to have a page only for people who
> have programs written in Python that they use (they're
> *your program*'s users, not *python*'s users).
>
> "Developer", in context, is clearly "one who *develops*
> python", not "one who *uses* python to develop programs".
>
> I don't see the ambiguity. I would be confused by the
> opposite usage.

After your long explanation, your POV makes some sense. However, no
one should be expected to read such an involved explanation before
understanding common terms.

I am a developer. Yes, I 'use' Python for my development work, but
that doesn't make me any less of a developer. A link for 'developers'
would make me think that it is something I should be interested in,
even if your long explanation was included next to the link (I
wouldn't be likely to read it - I *know* what a developer is).

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Re: Cheese Shop: some history for the new-comers

[Peter Decker]

On 3/12/06, Fredrik Lundh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter Decker wrote:
>
> > Can't say I've ever run into anything that hadn't already been
> > reported.
>
> how did you check if it was already reported ?

I asked about it on this list, or on the wxPython list, or whatever
was the appropriate list. That's my first response; if people on the
list had confirmed it as a bug, I would have then asked where to
report it.

Of course, you're straying so far from the original thought behind
this thread, and that is that the Python website is using some terms
differently than the majority of people who will eventually use the
site would understand them. The number of people who are brilliant
enough to actually contribute to the development of the Python
language is miniscule compared to the potential number of programmers
out there who could adopt Python as their language of choice, and thus
consider themselves 'Python developers'.

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Re: Cheese Shop: some history for the new-comers

[Peter Decker]

On 3/12/06, Fredrik Lundh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter Decker wrote:
>
> > I consider myself a Python developer, and if I saw a 'Developers' link
> > on a Python site, it would seem obvious that it would be something
> > that might interest me.
>
> even when it appeared below News, Documentation, Download,
> Community, and Links buttons on a site dedicated to the Python
> programming language ?
>
> who would you, intuitively, think that the other buttons were tar-
> geted for ?

I would expect 'Documentation' would lead to docs about *using*
Python, not about the nuts and bolts that go into enabling Python to
do its magic. Similarly, I would expect 'News' to be news that would
be relevant to the users of the language, 'Community' to be about the
community of people who use Python, etc.

The number of people who could potentially be Python developers is
immense compared to the number who will ever look at the source code
behind it, much less tinker with it.

> (and why wouldn't the development process behind Python be
> of interest to you, btw?

Probably because I have other work to do, and I use Python as the tool
to get that work done. If I were a baker, I would be preoccupied with
keeping my bakery in business; I wouldn't be spending much time
studying flour mills or wheat farming, even though those endeavors
make my bakery possible.

> don't tell me that you've never dis-
> covered a bug in Python or its documentation... ;-)

Can't say I've ever run into anything that hadn't already been
reported. But even if I did, my C skills are nowhere near good enough
to be able to delve into the source code and correct it. That doesn't
make me any less of a Python developer, though.

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Re: Cross Module Command Useage

[Peter Decker]

On 3/12/06, Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So lets say have two modules.. moduleA and moduleB… they are both imported
> into a main python program using the "from module import *" command…

There's your big mistake. This sort of import pollutes the namespace,
because now all the items in the module are no longer linked by their
module name. You're much better off doing a straight 'import module'
command.

> now moduleA has a dynamic command that needs to access a command that is in
> moduleB… but when I run these modules from the main python scrip they cant
> see each other…. it gives me an error that the command does not exist… Dose
> this mean that I need to import moduleB into moduleA for it to see it… or is
> there a way that I can tell moduleA too look out to the main python program
> for the commands…

If you use the import format above, it's simple: if you want to call a
ModuleB command, the syntax is ModuleB.command().

The big advantage of preserving the module namespaces is that if both
ModuleA and ModuleB have a function with a common name, such as
'start()', there is no confusion as to which one you are calling.
Spelling out ModuleA.start() and ModuleB.start() takes care of all
possible ambiguities.

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Re: Cheese Shop: some history for the new-comers

[Peter Decker]

On 3/12/06, Tim Parkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> freinds and colleagues both online and off.. Some of whom are python
> programmers, most not. Without a budget for 'comprehensive testing' then
> the next best thing is asking people, at least you'll generally get rid
> of the big bloopers.. it's typically referred to as guerilla testing and
> whilst not scientific, it's better than nothing at all.

I consider myself a Python developer, and if I saw a 'Developers' link
on a Python site, it would seem obvious that it would be something
that might interest me. It would not occur to me that this referred to
people who are developing the language itself.

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Re: Cheese Shop: some history for the new-comers

[Peter Decker]

On 3/11/06, Mike C. Fletcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I realise it's an incredibly boring name, but what about pronouncing it
> as "the package index" or "the Python Package Index".  Spelling it
> "PyPI" if one insists on a very short name in some written context is
> fine, but try not to use it when talking to a new user.  That is, link
> to the page as "The Package Index" from www.python.org, refer to it as
> "you can find that in the package index", or "The Python Package Index
> has modules for X, Y, and Z" in a non-Python context.  Use pippy if
> you're talking with someone deeply embedded in Python culture (maybe),
> but don't expect people to know what you're talking about.  Use "the
> Cheese Shop" similarly.

I think that calling it simple 'Python Package Index' is a great idea.
If you want a shortened version, call it by its initials: PPI. No need
for cutesy 'pippy' pronunciations or odd 'PyPI' capitalizations. Just
PPI.

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Re: Which GUI toolkit is THE best?

[Peter Decker]

On 3/10/06, invitro81 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But I've no idea which one I should use to start with.. I've read that
> tkinter seems to be the de facto standart in the pyhon community; but
> why? Is it the best available one or are theire other reasons? I read
> also a litte about wxpython and pygtk.. both are appealing to me but
> again to make a choice is difficult; is there also some guy liking pyqt
> is it worse or should it be avoided because of the licencing policy for
> qt (which I also like..)?
>
> * Which one is the most fun to program with?
> * Which one is the most easy to learn?
> * Which one looks best?
> * Which one is the most productive to program with?

GUI toolkits are not simple things to be productive with. Most people
I know tried out a few briefly, found one that fit their needs and/or
programming style better, and then adopted that as their choice. Given
the complexity of GUIs in general, developers tend to be 'fluent' in
one at a time - it's just too much to remember when switching between
different kits.

So most of the answers you get will invariably be tilted toward the
choice that an individual made. Their reasons for that choice may not
be the same as your reasons, so my advice to you would be to check
them all out for a few hours apiece, and make a choice based on your
impressions.

Having said that, my choice for UI toolkit is wxPython, based on its
use of native controls on all platforms. I disliked the syntax it
inherited from wxWidgets, the C++ project it is based on, but then I
found Dabo, whose UI layer wraps wxPython, giving you all the power
and beauty of wxPython, with none of the ugliness.
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Re: RAD tutorials and tools for GUI development with Python?

[Peter Decker]

On 3/8/06, Arthur Pemberton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
>  I would really like to code a few more widely useable apps, but coding the
> GUI just seems so boring and unnecessarily complex. Maybe I was spoilt by
> Borland's Delphi/Kylix. But is there any way to do as little coding of the
> GUI as possible, and worry about the logic? The best I've seen is using one
> tool with a modification to output python code, which then has to be
> regenerated after any change to the GUI, which to me, kinda defeats the
> "rapid" in RAD.
>
>  Thanks, advice would be much apperciated. If it helps to know, I am
> currently more interested in Python/Gtk (but not because I particularly like
> the look of Gtk)

I would recommend that you take a look at Dabo (http://dabodev.com).
They are in the process of developing exactly the sort of GUI design
tools you are looking for. They're not 100% of the way there yet, as
the project is basically two guys who do this in their free time (and
apparently never sleep!).

On the Documentation page of their site is a list of screencasts where
you can see the GUI design tools in action.
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Re: Write a GUI for a python script?

[Peter Decker]

On 3/5/06, Bill Maxwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for the info.  Knowing that, I was able to create a simple app in
> the Dabo Designer that contains a Notebook.
>
> But, I'm having a heck of a time finding any documentation at all on
> Dabo.  I looked all thru the website(s), and have combed the Dabo
> software package itself.
>
> Either I'm doing something wrong, or documentation is pretty sparse for
> Dabo.

No, you're not doing anything wrong. There isn't a whole lot of
documentation. That's one of the problems with projects being actively
developed: the developers are too busy with the development work to
step back and write the docs. They have asked for people to help out
if they can (it is open source, after all), but there hasn't been a
whole lot of that yet. I think a lot of people are like me: they have
figured out enough to make it work, and are doing some great stuff
with it, but don't feel that they know it enough to document it.

> What little info I could find on the Dabo Wiki seems pretty old.  I also
> watched the two Sizer videos, but there's not enough info there to learn
> much.

I have to agree. The videos are great, but so much more is needed. One
thing I can suggest is to post any questions on the dabo-users list.
Both the authors are very responsive and helpful.

> I read somewhere that they are concentrating on the User Interface
> designer instead of the database aspects.  The GUI maker is what I'm
> interested in using, not the rest.  I don't want to code the GUI
> manually.  Do you know where I can find more information on the
> Designer?

I think that the database side of things has been done for over a
year, and now they're looking to add support for more database types
as people start using it with other stuff. But as far as the GUI
Designer goes, I'd post questions on the dabo-users list.

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Re: Write a GUI for a python script?

[Peter Decker]

On 3/4/06, Bill Maxwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dabo does look really nice, but seems like it has a ways to go yet.
>
> I downloaded it a couple of weeks ago, and the very first thing I wanted
> to do doesn't seem to be supported.  I tried to create a simple
> application with a Notebook control inside a frame.  The Notebook
> control doesn't appear to be supported yet.
>
> Is that right, or am I just not looking in the right places?

It's fully supported. Their generic term for these paged controls is a
'pageframe', so a wx.Notebook is their dPageFrame class; wx.Listbook
is their dPageList class; wx.Choicebook is their dPageSelect, and they
also have a page control with no tabs called (gasp!) dPageFrameNoTabs.
One thing that they've done is pick names for classes and properties
that are the most common for all toolkits instead of blindly following
the wx names.

All of these classes have the same interface, and respond to the same
events. IOW, they've unified these different classes so that they have
a single API, making working with them much easier.

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Re: Write a GUI for a python script?

[Peter Decker]

On 3 Mar 2006 01:16:23 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> I, too, am a python newbie and have wrestled with GUI programming.  I
> think I am winning, but its been a struggle.

I started with wxPython and struggled with it for a long time. I was
able to get the job done, but using it never seemed natural. Then I
found the Dabo project, whose ui module wraps wxPython into a much
more Pythonic, consistent interface. Since then I've been able to
create GUIs without much effort at all. I highly recommend Dabo if you
are thinking about wxPython.

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