Re: f python?
In 87aa2iz3l1@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com, on 04/11/2012 at 05:32 PM, Pascal J. Bourguignon p...@informatimago.com said: You're confused. C doesn't have arrays. Lisp has arrays. C only has vectors Neither C nor any other programming language has vectors ;-) That C calls its vectors array, or its bytes char doesn't change the fact that C has no array and no character. That various programming languages use the term vector for data structures that are not vectors does not change the fact that they don't have vectors. If you're going to complain about C nomenclature, you'd have a much better case complaining about cast. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: f python?
In 87wr5nl54w@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com, on 04/10/2012 at 09:10 PM, Rainer Weikusat rweiku...@mssgmbh.com said: 'car' and 'cdr' refer to cons cells in Lisp, not to strings. How the first/rest terminology can be sensibly applied to 'C strings' (which are similar to linked-lists in the sense that there's a 'special termination value' instead of an explicit length) A syringe is similar to a sturgeon in the sense that they both start with S. LISP doesn't have arrays, and C doesn't allow you to insert into the middle of an array. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: f python?
In 20120409111329@kylheku.com, on 04/09/2012 at 06:55 PM, Kaz Kylheku k...@kylheku.com said: Null-terminated C strings do the same thing. C arrays are not LISP strings; there is no C analog to car and cdr. Code that needs to deal with null characters is manipulating binary data, not text, That's a C limitation, not a characteristic of text. It is certainly not true in languages unrelated to C, e.g., Ada, Algol 60, PL/I. If we scan for a null terminator which is not there, we have a buffer overrun. You're only thinking of scanning an existing string; think of constructing a string. The null only indicates the current length, not the amount allocated. If a length field in front of string data is incorrect, we also have a buffer overrrun. The languages that I'm aware of that use a string length field also use a length field for the allocated storage. More precisely, they require that attempts to store beyond the allocated length be detected. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: f python?
In 87vcl81wtw@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com, on 04/09/2012 at 09:20 PM, Rainer Weikusat rweiku...@mssgmbh.com said: This is logically very similar to the LISP list FSVO similar. This is, I think, a case where the opinions of people who have used C strings and the opinions of people who haven't differ greatly. You would be wrong. It is a case where the opinions of people who are oriented to a particular language and the opinions of people who have lost count of the languages they have used greatly differ. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: f python?
In 20120408114313...@kylheku.com, on 04/08/2012 at 07:14 PM, Kaz Kylheku k...@kylheku.com said: Null-terminated strings are infinitely better than the ridiculous encapsulation of length + data. ROTF,LMAO! For one thing, if s is a non-empty null terminated string then, cdr(s) is also a string representing the rest of that string without the first character, Are you really too clueless to differentiate between C and LISP? Null terminated strings have simplified all kids of text manipulation, lexical scanning, and data storage/communication code resulting in immeasurable savings over the years. Yeah, especially code that needs to deal with lengths and nulls. It's great for buffer overruns too. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Programing Art or Science?
In 87hax0suun@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com, on 04/03/2012 at 04:22 PM, Rainer Weikusat rweiku...@mssgmbh.com said: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts Do you need the Quadrivium or is the Trivium enough for programming g, d r? If the term art is good enough for Knuth it's good enough for me. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af
In m0scsu@spenarnc.xs4all.nl, on 03/12/2012 at 07:00 PM, Albert van der Horst alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl said: I know, but what the mathematicians do make so much more sense: Not really; Mathematical notation is a matter of convention, and the conventions owe as much to History as they do to logical necessity. The conventions aren't even the same from author to author, e.g., whether field implies Abelian. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detractors Remain Idiots After A Decade
In m0rrtp@spenarnc.xs4all.nl, on 03/12/2012 at 11:27 AM, Albert van der Horst alb...@spenarnc.xs4all.nl said: You're confused. No, s/h/it is just an acephalic troll with delusions of adequacy. left-associativity and right-associativity are computer languages concept and their definitions are not from mathematics. Don't confuse the google pest with facts. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af
In 87k4341j0l@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com, on 03/01/2012 at 02:40 PM, Rainer Weikusat rweiku...@mssgmbh.com said: You obviously don't have any sense of humour. Certainly I do; I laugh at pretentious loons with delusions of adequacy. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detractors Remain Idiots After A Decade!
In OD44r.17949$vo2.12...@newsfe07.iad, on 03/02/2012 at 02:17 PM, Chiron chiron...@gmail.com said: What always gets me is how so many people criticized Sokal for doing it, Google for Omerta. It's common for whistle blowers to be chastised or even persecuted. I agree that the criticism of Prof Sokal was outrageous, but it was also predictable. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af
In DuD3r.21706$cl.12...@newsfe17.iad, on 03/01/2012 at 05:07 AM, Chiron chiron...@gmail.com said: Hmm... maybe, instead of just ridiculing him, I'm treating him as he treats others. BTW, I happen to agree with you insofar as this poster not understanding the nature of mathematics. His comment reminds me of the article, Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity A brilliant piece of work. I greatly enjoyed it and the reaction to its disclosure. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detracters Remain Idiots After A Decade!
In fgD3r.7862$_63.3...@newsfe19.iad, on 03/01/2012 at 04:52 AM, Chiron chiron...@gmail.com said: Yes. That (the mathematically defined way) is a particular way, is it not? No. There is no the mathematically defined way. However, I wasn't specifically referring to infix/postfix/prefix or anything of that nature. I wasn't limiting my comment to lisp notation in particular, since what I said applies to any language. No, it doesn't. I was referring to the placement of parentheses (or other groupings) to indicate to *humans* what the intended sequence of events was. Operator precedence has the same purpose, and was around long before computers. Quite often expressions exploiting operator precedence are easier *for humans* to read than expressions involving deeply nested parentheses. Mathematically, Your exposure to Mathematics is too limited. and in any language with which I am familiar, Your exposure to computer languages is too limited. the sequence: 2 + 6 / 3 will yield 4. Try it in APL. Whenever there is *any* possibility of ambiguity, I see no reason not to clarify. Even if doing so makes it harder to read? Since you keep referring to Mathematics, I will point out that it is rare in Mathematics for anybody to publish a complete proof. Minor steps are almost always omitted to make for easier reading, and ambiguous shortcuts are used in the expectation that the reader will understand what is meant. Back in the days when the way you wrote your code affected how it was compiled, That would be the present. it made sense to rely heavily on language-specific features, thus saving a few bytes. Those optimizations involved adding extraneous parentheses, not omitting redundant parentheses. A few extra variables, if they help clarity, aren't going to hurt anything. And if they harm clarity? Let the machine do the grunt work. That's exactly what languages with operator precedence do. Pamper your readers (which in a few weeks or months might be you) and show exactly what you had in mind. The two goals conflict. That's all I'm saying. No; you're saying to use redundant parentheses, which conflicts with other things you're saying. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots After A Decade!New Science Discovery: Perl Idiots Remain Idiots Af
In 87aa41k6x5@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com, on 02/29/2012 at 03:15 PM, Rainer Weikusat rweiku...@mssgmbh.com said: 'mathematics' (an essentially outdated write-only programming language dating back to the times when humans had to perform computations themselves) ROTF,LMAO! You obviously don't have a clue as to what Mathematics means. Free hint: it doesn't mean Arithmetic. You're as bigoted as Xah Lee, -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: New Science Discovery: Perl Detracters Remain Idiots After A Decade!
In ubo3r.20367$kv1.9...@newsfe03.iad, on 02/29/2012 at 11:43 AM, Chiron chiron...@gmail.com said: Sure, mathematically it *should* go a particular way, No. Mathematically it should go the way that it is defined to go. There is nothing in Mathematics that either requires or prohibits infix notation in programming languages, or even in Mathematical notation. it makes sense to keep things as clear as possible. Often infix notation with well thought out precedence is the clearest way to go. RPN and the like have their place, but often are difficult for real people to read. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamt...@library.lspace.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: MI5 Persecution: Goldfish and Piranha 29/9/95 (5104)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 06/10/2007 at 04:57 AM, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And this is here because ??? 1. MI5 didn't take him down like they were supposed to 2. You didn't include followup-to in your header -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 10/25/2005 at 09:56 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Yes, I know, they can do whatever they want, it's not a crime, Actually, it is a crime and they've been convicted. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Microsoft Hatred FAQ
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 10/18/2005 at 01:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Yes, he deserves credit for what he did. As well as blame. The commercialization of the Internet was grossly mismanaged. Take the InterNIC - please! -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
