Re: proliferation of computer languages
Jürgen Exner wrote: Chris Rathman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't say that I see any particular point to the essay. You must be new here. There never is any particular point to Xah Lee's rantings except to cross-post borderline topics to borderline relevant NGs and then lay back and enjoy the ensuing slaughter. Admittedly, I'm not all too familiar with his postings, but on a general note, isn't it possible that someone else might not see it the same as you do? I really didn't see anything really sinister about the posting or it's content. It may very well be someone attempting to create a conversation, someone who may not be generally well received a lot of the time I gather. Also, if have such a distaste for his postings, you are free to ignore them as well. That said, I am all for alerting someone of something which may be a complete waste of their time, but in this case it feels like you are projecting your own dislike for the OP. Unless the OP really is deserving of such branding (in which case I'd stand corrected), I don't think it is reason enough to tell others not to read of his work just because you aren't particularly fond of it. Perhaps citing an actual example illustrating a reason to avoid him like the plague would of helped :-) -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: proliferation of computer languages
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2008-07-22, szr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J?rgen Exner wrote: Chris Rathman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't say that I see any particular point to the essay. You must be new here. There never is any particular point to Xah Lee's rantings except to cross-post borderline topics to borderline relevant NGs and then lay back and enjoy the ensuing slaughter. Admittedly, I'm not all too familiar with his postings, but on a general note, isn't it possible that someone else might not see it the same as you do? I really didn't see anything really sinister about the posting or it's content. That's the, uh, beauty of Xah Lee's posts. There's enough there there to suck people into what they think is going to be a conversation. But it's not really a conversation. He doesn't really read (or doesn't comprehend) responses to his posts and will just continue to ramble on in a somewhat insulting, half-rational stream of utterly opaque metaphors that he thinks makes him sound deeply philosphical. It has been theorized that he's an AI project. So, some dark government experiment gone horribly wrong? It may very well be someone attempting to create a conversation, someone who may not be generally well received a lot of the time I gather. Quite a few people here in c.l.p put forth a a lot of effort (for Usenet, anyway) trying to have a reasonable exchange with xah lee, but it seems to be pointless. He's a perpetual critic who looks down his nose at everything and thinks he could do everything better than everybody else (not that he has actually ever _done_ anything, AFAICT). That's good to know. Also, if have such a distaste for his postings, you are free to ignore them as well. That said, I am all for alerting someone of something which may be a complete waste of their time, It's not a waste of your time if you find him entertaining, but I wouldn't expect any actual conversation where he reads and understands your replies and responds to them in a rational manner. Yeah I wasn't really aware it was that bad. but in this case it feels like you are projecting your own dislike for the OP. Unless the OP really is deserving of such branding (in which case I'd stand corrected), I don't think it is reason enough to tell others not to read of his work just because you aren't particularly fond of it. Perhaps citing an actual example illustrating a reason to avoid him like the plague would of helped :-) google groups should be able to find you plenty of examples both here and in perl groups. Thank you for filling in some voids. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python's doc problems: sort
szr wrote: Jürgen Exner wrote: Andrew Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [Subject: Python's doc problems: sort] I want to emphasize a point here, as i have done quite emphatically in the past. The Python documentation, is the world's worst technical And WTF does Python documentation have to do with Perl of Lisp? szr, do you still have any doubts about the nature of xahlee? I wasn't involved in this thread, but no, after that statement comparing Perl's and Python's docs, I no doubts. * should have been, , I have no doubts. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Arne Vajhøj wrote: szr wrote: Arne Vajhøj wrote: szr wrote: Peter Duniho wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:40:03 -0700, szr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arne Vajhøj wrote: Stephan Bour wrote: Lew wrote: } John Thingstad wrote: } Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, } bash and C. I don't like the style, but many do. } } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion. Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news groups? Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the above ? Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any specific language. Indeed. That suggests it's probably off-topic in most, if not all, of the newsgroups to which it was posted, inasmuch as they exist for topics specific to a given programming language. Perhaps - comp.programming might of been a better place, but not all people who follow groups for specific languages follow a general group like that - but let me ask you something. What is it you really have against discussing topics with people of neighboring groups? Keep in mind you don't have to read anything you do not want to read. [1] I very much doubt that the original thread is relevant for the Java group. But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is clearly off topic. I agree with and understand what you are saying in general, but still, isn't it possible that were are people in the java group (and others) who might of been following the thread, only to discover (probably not right away) that someone decided to remove the group they were reading the thread from? I know I would not like that, even if it wasn't on topic at the branch. Personally, I find it very annoying to have to switch news groups in order to resume a thread and weed my way down the thread to where it left off before it was cut off from the previous group. I am relative tolerant towards threads that are a bit off topic, if the S/N ratio overall is good. Agreed. [...] If a thread, that is cross-posted, branches off on a tangent that has nothing to do with one or more groups what so ever, then yes, it makes sense to prune the 'newsgroup:' list / set follow ups, but in this case, someone made one mention or so of 'Perl', which was being used as an example, and someone (lew) moved to have the Java group removed. There was little reason to cut off the thread, when people very well may have been following it, over the utterance of one word, which was being used as an example. The bulk of the thread had to do with general programming, and suddenly writing the name of a language doesn't mean it's way off on a tangent. I hope this clears up some waters. Regards. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Arne Vajhøj wrote: szr wrote: Peter Duniho wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:40:03 -0700, szr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arne Vajhøj wrote: Stephan Bour wrote: Lew wrote: } John Thingstad wrote: } Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, } bash and C. I don't like the style, but many do. } } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion. Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news groups? Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the above ? Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any specific language. Indeed. That suggests it's probably off-topic in most, if not all, of the newsgroups to which it was posted, inasmuch as they exist for topics specific to a given programming language. Perhaps - comp.programming might of been a better place, but not all people who follow groups for specific languages follow a general group like that - but let me ask you something. What is it you really have against discussing topics with people of neighboring groups? Keep in mind you don't have to read anything you do not want to read. [1] I very much doubt that the original thread is relevant for the Java group. But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is clearly off topic. I agree with and understand what you are saying in general, but still, isn't it possible that were are people in the java group (and others) who might of been following the thread, only to discover (probably not right away) that someone decided to remove the group they were reading the thread from? I know I would not like that, even if it wasn't on topic at the branch. Personally, I find it very annoying to have to switch news groups in order to resume a thread and weed my way down the thread to where it left off before it was cut off from the previous group. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Peter Duniho wrote: On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:27:35 -0700, szr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] But the subthread Lew commente don was about Perl and Unix. That is clearly off topic. I agree with and understand what you are saying in general, but still, isn't it possible that were are people in the java group (and others) who might of been following the thread, only to discover (probably not right away) that someone decided to remove the group they were reading the thread from? I know I would not like that, even if it wasn't on topic at the branch. All due respect, I don't really care if those people find the thread gone. And no one should. I prefer to be considerate of others. Each individual person has a wide variety of interests. A thread that is off-topic in a newsgroup may in fact be concerning a topic of interest for someone who just happened to be reading that newsgroup. Well if a thread has absolutely no relation to a group, then yes, cross-posting to said group is inappropiate, and setting follow ups may well be warrented. But when there is some relation, sometimes it may be better to mark it as [OT] i nthe subject line, a practice that is sometimes seen, and seems to suffice. What if someone cross-posted a thread about motorcycle racing in the Perl newsgroup as well as an actual motorcycle racing newsgroup? You are comparing apples and oranges now; sure, if you post about motorcycles (to use your example) it would be wildly off topic, but the thread in question was relating to programming (the naming of functions and such) in general. Does that justify the thread continuing to be cross-posted to the Perl newsgroup? No, of course not. but who decides this? And why does said individual get to decide for everyone? So please. Quit trying to justify a thread being cross-posted to a newsgroup that you aren't even reading You do not know what groups I read. And I am not attempting to justify cross posting at all. Rather I am arguing against deciding for a whole news group when a thread should be discontinued. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python's doc problems: sort
Jürgen Exner wrote: Andrew Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [Subject: Python's doc problems: sort] I want to emphasize a point here, as i have done quite emphatically in the past. The Python documentation, is the world's worst technical And WTF does Python documentation have to do with Perl of Lisp? szr, do you still have any doubts about the nature of xahlee? I wasn't involved in this thread, but no, after that statement comparing Perl's and Python's docs, I no doubts. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Peter Duniho wrote: On Fri, 30 May 2008 22:40:03 -0700, szr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arne Vajhøj wrote: Stephan Bour wrote: Lew wrote: } John Thingstad wrote: } Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, } bash and C. I don't like the style, but many do. } } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion. Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news groups? Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the above ? Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any specific language. Indeed. That suggests it's probably off-topic in most, if not all, of the newsgroups to which it was posted, inasmuch as they exist for topics specific to a given programming language. Perhaps - comp.programming might of been a better place, but not all people who follow groups for specific languages follow a general group like that - but let me ask you something. What is it you really have against discussing topics with people of neighboring groups? Keep in mind you don't have to read anything you do not want to read. [1] Regardless, unless you are actually reading this thread from the c.l.j.p newsgroup, I'm not sure I see the point in questioning someone who _is_ about whether the thread belongs there or not. I would rather have the OP comment about that, as he started the thread. But what gets me is why you are against that specific group being included but not others? What is so special about the Java group and why are you so sure people there don't want to read this thread? [1] What right do you or I or anyone have to make decisions for everyone in a news group? Isn't this why most news readers allow one to block a thread? And if it's a vote you want, mark me down as the third person reading c.l.j.p that doesn't feel this thread belongs. I don't know whether Lew speaks for the entire newsgroup, but based on comments so far, it's pretty clear that there unanimous agreement among those who have expressed an opinion. Ok, so, perhaps 3 people out of what might be several hundred, if not thousand (there is no way to really know, but there are certainly a lot of people who read that group, and as with any group, there are far more readers than there are people posting, so, again, just because you or two other people or so don't want to read a topic or dislike it, you feel you can decide for EVERYONE they mustn't read it? Again, this is why readers allow you to ignore threads. Please don't force your views on others; let them decide for themselves. [1] [1] I do not mean this topic specifically, but in general, if one dislikes a thread, they are free to ignore it. I find it rather inconsiderate to attempt to force a decision for everyone, when one has the ability to simply ignore the thread entirely. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Jürgen Exner wrote: szr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would rather have the OP comment about that, as he started the thread. The OP is a very well-known troll who has the habit of spitting out a borderline OT article to a bunch of loosly related NGs ever so often and then sits back and enjoys the complaints and counter-complaints of the regulars. While I agree cross-posting should be chosen more carefully, it seemed like a harmless article to me. I did not get the impression he was just trolling. There are people who like to post articles they come across and maybe want to start a discussion on. Like I said, this may have been better to put in a more general programming group, and that yes, it is kind of OT for specific language groups, but I really saw no harm in it (and I saw no one try to redirect the discussion to a more general group), and you and anyone else are free to ignore the thread. All I ask is you allow people to make up their own minds. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Arne Vajhøj wrote: Stephan Bour wrote: Lew wrote: } John Thingstad wrote: } Perl is solidly based in the UNIX world on awk, sed, bash and C. } I don't like the style, but many do. } } Please exclude the Java newsgroups from this discussion. Did it ever occur to you that you don't speak for entire news groups? Did it occur to you that there are nothing about Java in the above ? Looking at the original post, it doesn't appear to be about any specific language. -- szr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
