Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-16 Thread Mike Meyer
Ivan Van Laningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Of course I wouldn't base decisions _only_ on whether or not [PYTHON]
 appears in the subject.  But I ordinarily do base decisions on the whole
 subject line, and I think that's perfectly reasonable.  There's nothing
 else to go on without opening the message, and for HTML-based mail
 there's no surer way to let spammers know they've found a live email
 addres than to open it.  You know that.

No, I don't. My mail reader has a separate decode step. I can open
HTML email, and see the HTML. Actually, I usually see the ascii
version of the HTML followed by the HTML. If I want to see the HTML, I
have to tell the reader to decode the mail. Then it renders the HTML.

Further, I have the HTML renderer set to *not* fetch inline objects
unless/until I click on them. So even rendering the HTML won't tell
spammers anything.

In short - your mail reader needs an upgrade.

   mike
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-15 Thread Bill Mill
On 4/14/05, mark hellewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 4/14/05, Steven Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  For what it's worth I filed a gmail issue over it a few days after I noticed
  it. I guess more of you could do so indicating the severity of the issue to
  the gmail developers. And I thought I was the only one...!
 
 I've now done the same. Let's hope they can do something about it,
 it is a little annoying!
 

Anyone else think the gmail team (or one of their bosses) reads c.l.p?
The problem is gone this morning. Here's to b*tching on c.l.p actually
solving something raises glass!

Peace
Bill Mill
bill.mill at gmail.com
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A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread BJörn Lindqvist
Please do not reply to spam. Replying to spam makes it much harder for
spam filters to catch all the spam or will produce very many false
positives. Atleast that's how gmail's filter works. And if you must
reply, please change the subject line.

On 13 Apr 2005 17:50:06 -0500, .@bag.python.org .@bag.python.org wrote:
 Nuf said.
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread mark hellewell
On 4/14/05, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please do not reply to spam. Replying to spam makes it much harder for
 spam filters to catch all the spam or will produce very many false
 positives. Atleast that's how gmail's filter works. And if you must
 reply, please change the subject line.

Is anybody else finding that Gmails spam filter has started
labelling a lot of python-list emails as spam? About 20
python-list emails a day end up getting caught by their
filter and I'm having to manually go in and mark them
as Not spam.

mark
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread James
Yes - it's been like that for the last month or so now and it's quite
annoying, especially seeing as before it was working at near enough
100% accuracy.

On 4/14/05, mark hellewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 4/14/05, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Please do not reply to spam. Replying to spam makes it much harder for
  spam filters to catch all the spam or will produce very many false
  positives. Atleast that's how gmail's filter works. And if you must
  reply, please change the subject line.
 
 Is anybody else finding that Gmails spam filter has started
 labelling a lot of python-list emails as spam? About 20
 python-list emails a day end up getting caught by their
 filter and I'm having to manually go in and mark them
 as Not spam.
 
 mark
 --
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread mark hellewell
On 4/14/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes - it's been like that for the last month or so now and it's quite
 annoying, especially seeing as before it was working at near enough
 100% accuracy.

And I don't suppose there's much we can do about it?

mark
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Steven Cummings
For what it's worth I filed a gmail issue over it a few days after I
noticed it. I guess more of you could do so indicating the severity of
the issue to the gmail developers. And I thought I was the only one...!

/SOn 4/14/05, mark hellewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 4/14/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes - it's been like that for the last month or so now and it's quite annoying, especially seeing as before it was working at near enough
 100% accuracy.And I don't suppose there's much we can do about it?mark--http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
-- Steven Cummings[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread César Leonardo Blum Silveira
Yeah that is happening to me too! Almost all my python-list e-mails go
to the Spam box.
Maybe we should contact the gmail admins?



On 4/14/05, mark hellewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 4/14/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Yes - it's been like that for the last month or so now and it's quite
  annoying, especially seeing as before it was working at near enough
  100% accuracy.
 
 And I don't suppose there's much we can do about it?
 
 mark
 --
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Ivan Van Laningham
Hi All--

The listowner could turn on the [PYTHON] headers.  I'm not using
spambayes yet, although I'm leaning toward it, but that step alone could
save me some work when trying to decide based on subject line alone
whether or not an email is spam.  As it stands now, it's too easy to
decide incorrectly that Subject: Inelegant is a spamdunk.

Metta,
Ivan

mark hellewell wrote:
 
 On 4/14/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Yes - it's been like that for the last month or so now and it's quite
  annoying, especially seeing as before it was working at near enough
  100% accuracy.
 
 And I don't suppose there's much we can do about it?
 
--
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.andi-holmes.com/
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Timothy Grant
On 4/14/05, mark hellewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 4/14/05, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Please do not reply to spam. Replying to spam makes it much harder for
  spam filters to catch all the spam or will produce very many false
  positives. Atleast that's how gmail's filter works. And if you must
  reply, please change the subject line.
 
 Is anybody else finding that Gmails spam filter has started
 labelling a lot of python-list emails as spam? About 20
 python-list emails a day end up getting caught by their
 filter and I'm having to manually go in and mark them
 as Not spam.

Absolutely! I didn't know if it were just me or what but starting a
couple of weeks ago, The filter went from near perfect to trapping 20+
good emails per day.

Very annoying.

-- 
Stand Fast,
tjg.
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Ivan Van Laningham
Hi All--

Roman Neuhauser wrote:
 
 # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-04-14 08:22:48 -0600:
  The listowner could turn on the [PYTHON] headers.
 
 I hope they don't.
 

What's your reasoning?

  I'm not using spambayes yet, although I'm leaning toward it, but that
  step alone could save me some work when trying to decide based on
  subject line alone whether or not an email is spam.  As it stands now,
  it's too easy to decide incorrectly that Subject: Inelegant is a
  spamdunk.
 
 Don't base your decisions (only) on subject then. Oh, and spam sent
 through the list would have the [PYTHON] space eater too, so what
 would it buy you?
 

Of course I wouldn't base decisions _only_ on whether or not [PYTHON]
appears in the subject.  But I ordinarily do base decisions on the whole
subject line, and I think that's perfectly reasonable.  There's nothing
else to go on without opening the message, and for HTML-based mail
there's no surer way to let spammers know they've found a live email
addres than to open it.  You know that.

Metta,
Ivan
--
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.andi-holmes.com/
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Roman Neuhauser
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-04-14 09:06:08 -0600:
 Roman Neuhauser wrote:
  
  # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-04-14 08:22:48 -0600:
   The listowner could turn on the [PYTHON] headers.
  
  I hope they don't.
  
 
 What's your reasoning?

It's 9 characters ([PYTHON] ) of screen real estate wasted.
Of course it's mail from the python-list, it has the appropriate
List-Id header!
 
   As it stands now, it's too easy to decide incorrectly that
   Subject: Inelegant is a spamdunk.
  
  Don't base your decisions (only) on subject then. Oh, and spam sent
  through the list would have the [PYTHON] space eater too, so what
  would it buy you?
 
 Of course I wouldn't base decisions _only_ on whether or not [PYTHON]
 appears in the subject.  But I ordinarily do base decisions on the whole
 subject line, and I think that's perfectly reasonable.  There's nothing
 else to go on without opening the message, and for HTML-based mail
 there's no surer way to let spammers know they've found a live email
 addres than to open it.  You know that.

I have no problem opening HTML emails: I (intentionally) don't have
a viewer for them configured in mutt which means I see their source.
And I delete them all without reading.

For Content-Type: multipart/alternative emails, the text/plain part
is displayed, and I mostly don't even get to notice there's a html
part. If the text/plain part says something hilarious, like This
is a MIME email, get a better email client which I've seen in a spam,
I get to laugh as well.

-- 
How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You don't know, man.  You don't KNOW.
Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Bill Mill
On 4/14/05, César Leonardo Blum Silveira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yeah that is happening to me too! Almost all my python-list e-mails go
 to the Spam box.
 Maybe we should contact the gmail admins?
 

I've already contacted the gmail admins. There was no response.

Peace
Bill Mill
bill.mill at gmail.com

 On 4/14/05, mark hellewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 4/14/05, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Yes - it's been like that for the last month or so now and it's quite
   annoying, especially seeing as before it was working at near enough
   100% accuracy.
 
  And I don't suppose there's much we can do about it?
 
  mark
  --
  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
 
 --
 http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

--
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread mark hellewell
On 4/14/05, Steven Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For what it's worth I filed a gmail issue over it a few days after I noticed
 it. I guess more of you could do so indicating the severity of the issue to
 the gmail developers. And I thought I was the only one...!

I've now done the same. Let's hope they can do something about it,
it is a little annoying!

mark

  /S
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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Bill Mill wrote:

  Maybe we should contact the gmail admins?

 I've already contacted the gmail admins. There was no response.

have you tried reading the newsgroup via

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python

while being logged in to your gmail account?

/F



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Re: A little request about spam

2005-04-14 Thread Bill Mill
On 4/14/05, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Bill Mill wrote:
 
   Maybe we should contact the gmail admins?
 
  I've already contacted the gmail admins. There was no response.
 
 have you tried reading the newsgroup via
 
 http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python
 
 while being logged in to your gmail account?
 

Yup, I don't like that interface *nearly* as much as I do the gmail
interface. In gmail, I see threads as their subject headers, lined up
neatly. Threads which I've read are dimmed, and ones I haven't are
bolded. I see people's real email addresses . Threads in which I have
a personal conversation with one of the authors pop up to the top when
a private email comes in. Spam (The greatest news ever!) is filtered
out, and up until recently, it was very successful.

In short, the groups-beta interface is very inadequate compared to the
gmail one.

Peace
Bill Mill
bill.mill at gmail.com

 /F
 
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