Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Mr. Roboto wrote: > Phillipe: Actually, it's not performance of the core app that concerns > me. I'm thinking more about UI/form *design* productivity. I've done > a lot of Access work over the years and while the stand-alone VB form > designer isn't quite as thorough, it's still one of the slickest out > there. Unfortunately, there's no designer for PyWin and wxPython's > XRC is nice but not in the same league as what can be done w/ Delphi > or VB. Yes, I'm aware that wxWidgets has a real form designer, but > that's yet another story, for another day. > > Making XRC into a more fully-featured tool (more on par w/ the > aforementioned) is a way nice project unto itself, but not right now. > However, the desk accessory I've mentioned is an excellent 1st step > towards *possibly* doing something much bigger > > Philippe Martin wrote: >> Do you have major performances issues ? why not write everything in >> Python/WxPython ? >> >> >> I used to write my applications in VB6 with python com objects ... and >> decided there was no gain there. >> >> Regards, >> >> Philippe I personally _really_ like wxDesigner (http://www.roebling.de/) and as under VB6, I always avoided having the tables filled for me (bound forms if I recall) I have not found my productivity go down ... but then again, I never was a VB expert. 1) As others have said, it is very easy to make a Python com object (thank you Mark!) - and as long as Windows keeps supporting COM 2) I chose the COM option 3) If your script does not handle exceptions, you'll have a fairly cryptic VB dialog box telling you about your python com object unhapiness - I find it more easy to handle the expections in the script 4) Yes it takes space - I have an application that uses Python, wxPython, Gadfly, pyserial, HTMLGen . and the whole thing takes 120M I used visual studio to buld a single install for everything- works well. The one open issue I have about wxPython in a com object is how the main event loop (in your core application) will react if a com object with GUI pops-up ... never tried it. Regards, Philippe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Phillipe: Actually, it's not performance of the core app that concerns me. I'm thinking more about UI/form *design* productivity. I've done a lot of Access work over the years and while the stand-alone VB form designer isn't quite as thorough, it's still one of the slickest out there. Unfortunately, there's no designer for PyWin and wxPython's XRC is nice but not in the same league as what can be done w/ Delphi or VB. Yes, I'm aware that wxWidgets has a real form designer, but that's yet another story, for another day. Making XRC into a more fully-featured tool (more on par w/ the aforementioned) is a way nice project unto itself, but not right now. However, the desk accessory I've mentioned is an excellent 1st step towards *possibly* doing something much bigger Philippe Martin wrote: > Do you have major performances issues ? why not write everything in > Python/WxPython ? > > > I used to write my applications in VB6 with python com objects ... and > decided there was no gain there. > > Regards, > > Philippe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Mr. Roboto wrote: > > Folks: I want to embark on a project to add Python (actually, wxPython > or PythonWin) to a new Windows app I want to start writing soon. > Essentially, I want to take VB6 (or pos Delphi) and construct the app > framework/core functionality using one of those languages, then extend > the app w/ Python, the same way one can extend the MS Office apps > using VBA. The core Python docs provide the fundamental info one > needs to get started. But, I've been looking for some pointers to > articles/web pages that will bootstrap the effort, so I won't have to > completely reinvent the wheel. So far, the c.l.p ngroup traffic (and > the web in general) that speaks to this subject is apparently pretty > sparse. Since I'm a one-man show, it would be helpful if anyone could > offer pointers to sites/pages/books that address some of these issues: > > 1) To COM or not ? From an implementation standpoint, it seems > worthwhile to build the host app as a series of COM objects, which > could then be ref'd/manipulated via external Python code. Not sure if > this makes sense from a performance-perspective, but I doubt the apps > I'm thinking about (mostly desk accessory utils kinda, sorta) are > going to be compute-intensive at all. > > 2) SWIG or not ? Have never used it, but know that SWIG has been > ref'd many times in the ngroup as an tool for facilitating the use of > Python as an embedded language. Is SWIG worth the effort for a > relatively small (<10 KLOC) app ? > > 3) Handling exceptions. I want to start from Day One with a sensible > approach to debugging and testing both host objects and external > scripts. > > 4) Deployment. Size (30 - 50MB for wxPython or PyWin alone) and a > silent install of either pkg prior to installing the host app. > > Regardless of the conversation in this group, I plan to get started in > the next few days. This is how I'm currently looking at the above > issues: > > 1) COM: Yes, since COM seems like an easy fit w/o writing lotsa > glue code because of built-in support via PyWin > > 2) SWIG: Not for a 1st cut, at least not to get one's feet wet, so > to speak > > 3) Exceptions: No clue. Need to closely read Extending/Embedding > Python for more guidance > > 4) Deployment: Bite the disk space bullet and use PyWin or wxPython as > is > > Anyway, that's the beginning of the conversation. If you have any > observations or suggestions, please feel free. Later...MR Do you have major performances issues ? why not write everything in Python/WxPython ? I used to write my applications in VB6 with python com objects ... and decided there was no gain there. Regards, Philippe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Simon: Good idea, but I'm not yet .NET-compatible and can't handle that learning curve in addition to everything else. IronPython is an option I hadn't considered, but yours is a good idea for the next project Simon Hibbs wrote: > Have you considered IronPython? > > This is of course only an option if you're prepared to code in VB.NET > or C# instead of VB6 or Delphi, but it would provide seamless > integratioon between your Python code and the rest of your app and > would not require an external graphics library - although you would > need to distribute the .NET and IronPython runtimes. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Steve: Thanx for reminding me. I have that book around here *someplace*. Never finished it, but will dig it out pronto. As you so aptly point out, I want to develop more than experiment and who better to learn from than the author of PyWin itself Steve Holden wrote: > You almost certainly would regard a copy of Hammind and Robinson's > "Python Programming on Win32" as remarkable value for money. It's an > axcellent book, and even has examples fo how you can make a VBA > application scriptable in Python. > > If you are more interested in developing functionality that > experimenting, buying that book would save to a huge amount of time. > > regards > Steve -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Have you considered IronPython? This is of course only an option if you're prepared to code in VB.NET or C# instead of VB6 or Delphi, but it would provide seamless integratioon between your Python code and the rest of your app and would not require an external graphics library - although you would need to distribute the .NET and IronPython runtimes. Multiple-language and library integration is after all what .NET is all about. Simon Hibbs -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Mr. Roboto wrote: > Folks: I want to embark on a project to add Python (actually, wxPython > or PythonWin) to a new Windows app I want to start writing soon. > Essentially, I want to take VB6 (or pos Delphi) and construct the app > framework/core functionality using one of those languages, then extend > the app w/ Python, the same way one can extend the MS Office apps > using VBA. The core Python docs provide the fundamental info one > needs to get started. But, I've been looking for some pointers to > articles/web pages that will bootstrap the effort, so I won't have to > completely reinvent the wheel. So far, the c.l.p ngroup traffic (and > the web in general) that speaks to this subject is apparently pretty > sparse. Since I'm a one-man show, it would be helpful if anyone could > offer pointers to sites/pages/books that address some of these issues: > You almost certainly would regard a copy of Hammind and Robinson's "Python Programming on Win32" as remarkable value for money. It's an axcellent book, and even has examples fo how you can make a VBA application scriptable in Python. If you are more interested in developing functionality that experimenting, buying that book would save to a huge amount of time. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
About Embedding PyWin or wxPython
Folks: I want to embark on a project to add Python (actually, wxPython or PythonWin) to a new Windows app I want to start writing soon. Essentially, I want to take VB6 (or pos Delphi) and construct the app framework/core functionality using one of those languages, then extend the app w/ Python, the same way one can extend the MS Office apps using VBA. The core Python docs provide the fundamental info one needs to get started. But, I've been looking for some pointers to articles/web pages that will bootstrap the effort, so I won't have to completely reinvent the wheel. So far, the c.l.p ngroup traffic (and the web in general) that speaks to this subject is apparently pretty sparse. Since I'm a one-man show, it would be helpful if anyone could offer pointers to sites/pages/books that address some of these issues: 1) To COM or not ? From an implementation standpoint, it seems worthwhile to build the host app as a series of COM objects, which could then be ref'd/manipulated via external Python code. Not sure if this makes sense from a performance-perspective, but I doubt the apps I'm thinking about (mostly desk accessory utils kinda, sorta) are going to be compute-intensive at all. 2) SWIG or not ? Have never used it, but know that SWIG has been ref'd many times in the ngroup as an tool for facilitating the use of Python as an embedded language. Is SWIG worth the effort for a relatively small (<10 KLOC) app ? 3) Handling exceptions. I want to start from Day One with a sensible approach to debugging and testing both host objects and external scripts. 4) Deployment. Size (30 - 50MB for wxPython or PyWin alone) and a silent install of either pkg prior to installing the host app. Regardless of the conversation in this group, I plan to get started in the next few days. This is how I'm currently looking at the above issues: 1) COM: Yes, since COM seems like an easy fit w/o writing lotsa glue code because of built-in support via PyWin 2) SWIG: Not for a 1st cut, at least not to get one's feet wet, so to speak 3) Exceptions: No clue. Need to closely read Extending/Embedding Python for more guidance 4) Deployment: Bite the disk space bullet and use PyWin or wxPython as is Anyway, that's the beginning of the conversation. If you have any observations or suggestions, please feel free. Later...MR -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
