Re: About reading Python code
On 2008-03-18, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, I recommend that you write readable code! Don't use Python as if you're entering the obfuscated C contest. Two particularly important points: * Comments are always helpful to the reader. It would be nice if this was the case! I once saw a preogram where a line of code like this: foo++; Would be annotated with a comment like this: // /* */ /* Increment foo*/ /* */ // This comment was worse than useless, because it (and others like it) took up space that distracted from the information-containing parts of the code. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On 18 мар, 03:57, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 17 Mar, 04:54, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. First, I recommend that you write readable code! Don't use Python as if you're entering the obfuscated C contest. Two particularly important points: * If you find yourself thinking this module is too long, that's probably what it is. Half a page of code per module is fine. Two pages of code per module can be too much. * Comments are always helpful to the reader. Second, I recommend getting a good IDE. E.g. pick one of: * Microsoft Visual Studio (commercial) * Eclipse with PyDev and CDT (free) * SPE (free) * ActiveState Komodo IDE (commercial) under Microsoft Visual Studio do you mean IronPython instance? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On 18 Mar, 08:00, hellt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: under Microsoft Visual Studio do you mean IronPython instance? AFAIK, with the latest VS 2008 you can develop for CPython and IronPython. http://blogs.msdn.com/haibo_luo/archive/2007/10/16/5482940.aspx -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On Mar 17, 1:54 pm, Stargaming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:54:01 -0700, WaterWalk wrote: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. If your Python code is well-written, it should be easy figuring out what it means by just reading it. For more complex programs, of course, this method can fail. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. IDLE is just, well, a batteries-included editor. There are many people (me included) who do *not* like it because it's so weak and doesn't have any real uses cases if your programs get sufficiently complex (because IDLE itself is sufficiently primitive). You might be interested in *real* debuggers, such as the Python Debugger `PDB http://docs.python.org/lib/module-pdb.html`_. If you don't find its usage obvious, a quick google search just turned up a nice `tutorial http://www.ferg.org/papers/debugging_in_python.html`_. You might find the `Python Profilers http://docs.python.org/lib/ profile.html`_ particularly interesting, `profile` for finding out which function sucks up the most calls/time, `trace` for more sophisticated stuff. `pythontracer http://code.google.com/p/pythontracer/` sounds like a good combination of both. So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. A common practice is just inserting `print` statements since it's so easy. If you think your debugging isn't temporary but could be useful and will be enabled every now and then, you could also use the `logging module http://docs.python.org/lib/module-logging.html`_ with the ``DEBUG`` level. There was a blog post recently about how to do this `generically for functions http://wordaligned.org/articles/echo`_. BTW. I think this problem also exists in other script languages. FWIW, I think it's particularly easier in scripting languages to implement all kinds of tracing (apart from debugging, which is rather unpopular in Python) because you have one *extra* level (the interpreter) between your machine and your code. HTH, Stargaming Thanks for your informative reply. I'll try them. I think I need more practice to familiarize myself with those idioms of Python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On 2008-03-17, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. It does, you just right-click and go set breakpoint. But yes IDLE is a bit basic. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On Mar 17, 5:54 am, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece ofpythoncode works. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in adebuggerso I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But withPython, thedebuggeris a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree thatpythoncode is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. Try Winpdb - www.winpdb.org (works on Linux as well). Don't forget to send feedback. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
WaterWalk пишет: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. You also can use free IDE (for example Eclipse) and PyDev plugin, which includes comfortable Debugger -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
En Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:54:01 -0200, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. See the wiki at http://wiki.python.org/moin/DevelopmentTools for more editors, debugging tools and IDEs. -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On 17 Mar, 04:54, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. First, I recommend that you write readable code! Don't use Python as if you're entering the obfuscated C contest. Two particularly important points: * If you find yourself thinking this module is too long, that's probably what it is. Half a page of code per module is fine. Two pages of code per module can be too much. * Comments are always helpful to the reader. Second, I recommend getting a good IDE. E.g. pick one of: * Microsoft Visual Studio (commercial) * Eclipse with PyDev and CDT (free) * SPE (free) * ActiveState Komodo IDE (commercial) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. Try winpdb.org which despite the name has nothing to do with MS Windows. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
sturlamolden wrote:
On 17 Mar, 04:54, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code
is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard
work.
First, I recommend that you write readable code! Don't use Python as
if you're entering the obfuscated C contest.
Er, don't use anything other than C if you're entering an obfuscated C
contest, or anything other Perl for an obfuscated Perl contest, etc.
Do use Python if you're entering an obfuscated Python contest. Found
online:
[#[#[#[#[#[#[#[#[# By TaroOgawa #]#]#]#]#]#]#]#]#]
globals()
.update({ __:
lambda x: globals()
.update(( dict([[x]
*2])))}), __(((
Just)))
,__(( another
)),__ (Python
),__( Hacker)
];print (.join(
[(Just),( (another)
),(Python ),Hacker]
));__
Two particularly important points:
* If you find yourself thinking this module is too long, that's
probably what it is. Half a page of code per module is fine. Two pages
of code per module can be too much.
* Comments are always helpful to the reader.
If only 'twere so. *Good* comments are always helpful. Please do not
comment every method with this is a method or the like. One of the
things that often makes newb code stand out is that the programmer
couldn't tell the things that needed to be commented from the places
where comments just got in the way.
Second, I recommend getting a good IDE. E.g. pick one of:
* Microsoft Visual Studio (commercial)
* Eclipse with PyDev and CDT (free)
* SPE (free)
* ActiveState Komodo IDE (commercial)
* Vim on Linux. (No desire here to debate the meaning of IDE, but with
Vim or Emacs on any Unix-like platform, the whole system effectively is
the IDE.)
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
About reading Python code
Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On Mar 17, 11:54 am, WaterWalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. BTW. I think this problem also exists in other script languages. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: About reading Python code
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:54:01 -0700, WaterWalk wrote: Hello. I wonder what's the effective way of figuring out how a piece of python code works. If your Python code is well-written, it should be easy figuring out what it means by just reading it. For more complex programs, of course, this method can fail. With C I often find it very useful to be able to run the code in step mode and set breakpoints in a debugger so I can watch how the it executes, how the data change and how the code jumps from one function to another. But with Python, the debugger is a little primitive. The default IDLE doesn't even allow me to set a breakpoint. When the code is long, I am often lost in it. IDLE is just, well, a batteries-included editor. There are many people (me included) who do *not* like it because it's so weak and doesn't have any real uses cases if your programs get sufficiently complex (because IDLE itself is sufficiently primitive). You might be interested in *real* debuggers, such as the Python Debugger `PDB http://docs.python.org/lib/module-pdb.html`_. If you don't find its usage obvious, a quick google search just turned up a nice `tutorial http://www.ferg.org/papers/debugging_in_python.html`_. You might find the `Python Profilers http://docs.python.org/lib/ profile.html`_ particularly interesting, `profile` for finding out which function sucks up the most calls/time, `trace` for more sophisticated stuff. `pythontracer http://code.google.com/p/pythontracer/` sounds like a good combination of both. So I'm curious how to read code effectively. I agree that python code is clear, but when it becomes long, reading it can still be a hard work. A common practice is just inserting `print` statements since it's so easy. If you think your debugging isn't temporary but could be useful and will be enabled every now and then, you could also use the `logging module http://docs.python.org/lib/module-logging.html`_ with the ``DEBUG`` level. There was a blog post recently about how to do this `generically for functions http://wordaligned.org/articles/echo`_. BTW. I think this problem also exists in other script languages. FWIW, I think it's particularly easier in scripting languages to implement all kinds of tracing (apart from debugging, which is rather unpopular in Python) because you have one *extra* level (the interpreter) between your machine and your code. HTH, Stargaming -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
