Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
> > > You haven't looked very well though: there are actually quite a lot > > > of extra spaces. Still, it's nicely done indeed. > > Hmm. I only saw doubled spaces after commas and periods. > Doubled spaces after commas are definitely not standard usage. I guess the fact that *all* comments on my post only referred to my formatting, tell us something about how distracted we can get by purely "typographic" aspects of text. I think that might strengthen my case. Text that visually looks different than we are used to, distracts us from the content. Another interpretation would be that the content of my previous post was a bit thin, since I was to caught up with form... I guess that *also* suggests that we should use standard Python formatting and concentrate on content... Of course, if you're used to typing If in other languages, Python might initially feel annoying, just as C++ feels stupid when it forces me to put a silly ; in the end of each line. On the other hand, there are other things beyond syntactic details that differ more between languages, and it's pretty easy to get used to Python. I think the thing that bothered me most initially was the differnt shape of the code, since there were no explicit block end markers in Python. I was really used to code looking like this: xxx xx xxx xxx xxx xx xx And now it looked: xxx xxx xxx xxx It somehow felt very abrupt, and I missed the visual cues that we were going back to a previous block level. After some time I got used to it, and I very rarely hear anyone contest that code written in Python usually is easier to read than code written in other languages. The lack of block end markers, is one of several Python features that promote clarity and a high signal/ noise ratio in the source code. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Benji York wrote: > Roel Schroeven wrote: > > You haven't looked very well though: there are actually quite a lot > > of extra spaces. Still, it's nicely done indeed. > > Hmm. I only saw doubled spaces after commas and periods. That's > fairly standard practice, for the periods at least. I don't know > if people regularly put two spaces after commas though. I know I > don't. I did spot a couple of extra quotation marks, but I guess > I can give him those. :) Doubled spaces after commas are definitely not standard usage. Doubled spaces after periods are fairly common (a holdover from fixed-pitch typewriters, as I recall, where the period itself takes up a full character width and so needs doubled space after it to make the sentence breaks more noticeable). Inconsistent use of doubled spaces after periods, however, is a sign of a smart justification algorithm. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Roel Schroeven wrote: > You haven't looked very well though: there are actually quite a lot > of extra spaces. Still, it's nicely done indeed. Hmm. I only saw doubled spaces after commas and periods. That's fairly standard practice, for the periods at least. I don't know if people regularly put two spaces after commas though. I know I don't. I did spot a couple of extra quotation marks, but I guess I can give him those. :) -- Benji York -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:24:54 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>"D H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Elliot Temple wrote:
>>> Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is
>>> case sensitive? I find that annoying.
>>
>> I do too.
>
>I don't.
>
>> As you've found, the only reason is because it is,
>
>False. As someone else already pointed out in this thread, and as some
>said years ago when Guido brought up the subject, standard math notation
>*is* case sensitive and some people like Python because they can directly
>translate math expressions into Python expressions.
False.
In the sense that it is the way it is only because Guido kept it the
way it is, but he did so without acknowledging that your argument or
anyone else's argument was in the least bit pursuasive to him.
>I am annoyed by the disinformation and slander ('anti-newbie') repeated
>indefinitely by some case-folding advocates. Difference annoyances for
>different folks, I guess.
I am annoyed that Guido skated while those of us vocally annoyed that
Guido could be influenced into this substanceless "newbie" issue, and
influence so many others to contemplate it with such solemnity - did
not skate as well.
Art
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:56:22 +, Roel Schroeven wrote: > You haven't looked very well though: there are actually quite a lot of > extra spaces. Still, it's nicely done indeed. C-u M-q ? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Benji York wrote: > What I want to know is how Mangus wrote an entire message fully > justified. I looked for extra spaces and other cheats but only > found a couple of superfluous exclamation marks. Well done! He > must be a justification wizard. I wish I could do that too. :) I hadn't even seen it at first, since I use a proportional font for reading my mail. You haven't looked very well though: there are actually quite a lot of extra spaces. Still, it's nicely done indeed. -- If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton Roel Schroeven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
What I want to know is how Mangus wrote an entire message fully justified. I looked for extra spaces and other cheats but only found a couple of superfluous exclamation marks. Well done! He must be a justification wizard. I wish I could do that too. :) -- Benji York -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Terry Reedy wrote: > Difference annoyances for different folks, I guess. IN MY EXPERIENCE, MANY PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET ARE ANNOYED BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T USE CASE THE WAY THEY ARE EXPECTED. IT ALSO SEEMS TO ME THAT LOWER CASE TEXT IS OFTEN MORE EASY TO READ, AND ALSO THAT IT IS EASIER TO SCAN TEXTS IF CASE IS CONSISTENT. WE DO AFTER ALL SEE IMAGES ON THE SCREEN. EVEN IF WE RELATE "IF" WITH "if", THEY DON'T LOOK THE SAME. MY SON POINTED AT THE WORD "TOYOTA" IN A MAGAZINE AND EXCLAIMED "TOTOTA" WHEN HE WAS ONLY THREE. HE WAS CLEARLY TOO YOUNG TO READ, BUT HE RECOGNIZED THE IMAGE OF THE LOGO HE HAD SEEN ON OLD TOYOTAS. IN GENERAL, PYTHON "TRIES" TO FORCE A PARTICULAR STYLE OF CODING ON PROGRAMMERS. WE HAVE TO INDENT IN A PARTICULAR WAY. THE STYLE OF PROGRAMMING HAS BEEN CODIFIED IN PEP 008, AND COWBOY PROGRAMMING ISN'T REALLY APPRECIATED. YOU ARE NOT "SUPPOSED" TO PROGRAM PYTHON "YOUR WAY". YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PROGRAM THE RIGHT WAY. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT, IT IS PROBABLY BETTER TO USE ANOTHER LANGUAGE. PERL IS MORE OF A COWBOY LANUGAGE. THE FUNNY THING IS THAT EVEN PERL IS CASE SENSITIVE! EXPLAIN THAT!!! IMO IT'S A STRENGTH OF PYTHON THAT PYTHON CODE IS ALWAYS CONSISTENT IN CASE. IT IS PROBABLY A MINOR FEATURE COMPARED TO THE BLOCK STRUCTURES ETC, BUT I THINK IT ADDS TO THE EASE OF READING CODE WHICH HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY OTHERS. I DO ALSO DISLIKE THE ALTERNATIVES. NEITHER CODE WITH INCONSISTENT USE OF CASE NOR THE STUPID "CASE CORRECTING" FEATURES IN E.G. THE VISUAL BASIC IDE SEEMS TO BE ANYTHING TO STRIVE FOR. IF YOU THOUGHT IT WAS ANNOYING TO READ THIS, THEN YOU CAN AT LEAST APPRECIATE THAT PYTHON CODE NEVER LOOKS LIKE SUCH A COMPACT BLOB! Who am I kidding with this? Everybody knows that case doesn't matter, right? The text below isn't a bit easier to read than the text above, right? In my experience, many people on the internet are annoyed by people who don't use case the way they are expected. It also seems to me that lower case text is often more easy to read, and also that it is easier to scan texts if case is consistent. We do after all see images on the screen. Even if we relate "IF" with "if", they don't look the same. My son pointed at the word "TOYOTA" in a magazine and exclaimed "Totota" when he was only three. He was clearly too young to read, but he recognized the image of the logo he had seen on old toyotas. In general, Python "tries" to force a particular style of coding on programmers. We have to indent in a particular way. The style of programming has been codified in PEP 008, and cowboy programming isn't really appreciated. You are not "supposed" to program Python "your way". You are supposed to program the right way. If you don't like that, it is probably better to use another language. Perl is more of a cowboy lanugage. The funny thing is that even Perl is case sensitive! Explain that!!! IMO it's a strength of Python that Python code is always consistent in case. It is probably a minor feature compared to the block structures etc, but I think it adds to the ease of reading code which has been written by others. I do also dislike the alternatives. Neither code with inconsistent use of case nor the stupid "case correcting" features in e.g. the Visual Basic IDE seems to be anything to strive for. If you thought it was annoying to read this, then you can at least appreciate that Python code never looks like such a compact blob! oF cOuRsE, wE sHoUlDn'T aSsUmE tHaT pEoPlE wIlL aBuSe ThE fReEdOm ThEy GeT, bUt I'm RaThEr SaFe ThAn SoRrY! ;^) I'm ReAlLy hApPy ThAt I'lL nEvEr HaVe To SeE aLl-CaPs PyThOn PrOgRaMs! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
"D H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Elliot Temple wrote:
>> Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is
>> case sensitive? I find that annoying.
>
> I do too.
I don't.
> As you've found, the only reason is because it is,
False. As someone else already pointed out in this thread, and as some
said years ago when Guido brought up the subject, standard math notation
*is* case sensitive and some people like Python because they can directly
translate math expressions into Python expressions.
I am annoyed by the disinformation and slander ('anti-newbie') repeated
indefinitely by some case-folding advocates. Difference annoyances for
different folks, I guess.
Terry J. Reedy
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Roy Smith wrote: > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, D H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>Elliot Temple wrote: >> >>>Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is >>>case sensitive? I find that annoying. >> >>I do too. As you've found, the only reason is because it is, and it is >>too late to change (it was even too late back in 1999 when it was >>considered by Guido). I guess the most popular case-insensitive >>language nowadays is visual basic (and VB.NET). >> >> > Also, why aren't there >> >>>multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? >> >>Again, just because there aren't and never were. There is no technical >>reason (like for example a parsing conflict) why they wouldn't work in >>python. That's why most python editors have added a comment section >>command that prepends # to consecutive lines for you. > > > If it really bothers you that there's no multi-line comments, you could > always use triple-quoted strings. Where did I say that? > I actually don't like multi-line comments. They're really just syntactic > sugar, and when abused, they can make code very difficult to understand. > Just wait until the day you're trying to figure out why some C++ function > is behaving the way it is and you don't notice that a 50-line stretch of > code is commented out with /* at the top and */ at the bottom. Same with triple quotes, btw. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Roy Smith wrote: > Just wait until the day you're trying to figure out why some C++ function > is behaving the way it is and you don't notice that a 50-line stretch of > code is commented out with /* at the top and */ at the bottom. The same thing's happened to me in Python when I accidentally included a function's code in its docstring (don't ask me how I managed to do that -- I don't know). But my editor's syntax highlighting helped me to find the error very quickly. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:24:39 -0500, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is >> case sensitive? I find that annoying. > >Because it comes from a language background of case sensitive >languages (C, shell, etc.). But read what the BDFL has to say about >it: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-July/054788.html > As Guido's statement on his position on case sensitivity/insensitivity cited above was in response to a post/provocation of mine, its gives me, and I shall indulge myself in, an opportunity to partake of a favorite pasttime - venting, I will make it short: It gauls the hell out of me that that the Python community mass "head" was in such a strange place at that moment that I had to take the pose of maniacal extremist to have a sensible converstaion. Or that's the history I am writing, in any case. Art -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, D H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Elliot Temple wrote: > > Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is > > case sensitive? I find that annoying. > > I do too. As you've found, the only reason is because it is, and it is > too late to change (it was even too late back in 1999 when it was > considered by Guido). I guess the most popular case-insensitive > language nowadays is visual basic (and VB.NET). > > > Also, why aren't there > > multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? > > Again, just because there aren't and never were. There is no technical > reason (like for example a parsing conflict) why they wouldn't work in > python. That's why most python editors have added a comment section > command that prepends # to consecutive lines for you. If it really bothers you that there's no multi-line comments, you could always use triple-quoted strings. I actually don't like multi-line comments. They're really just syntactic sugar, and when abused, they can make code very difficult to understand. Just wait until the day you're trying to figure out why some C++ function is behaving the way it is and you don't notice that a 50-line stretch of code is commented out with /* at the top and */ at the bottom. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Elliot Temple wrote: > Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is > case sensitive? I find that annoying. I do too. As you've found, the only reason is because it is, and it is too late to change (it was even too late back in 1999 when it was considered by Guido). I guess the most popular case-insensitive language nowadays is visual basic (and VB.NET). > Also, why aren't there > multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? Again, just because there aren't and never were. There is no technical reason (like for example a parsing conflict) why they wouldn't work in python. That's why most python editors have added a comment section command that prepends # to consecutive lines for you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
On May 29, 2005, at 11:44 AM, Arthur wrote: > On 26 May 2005 17:33:33 -0700, "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >> Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the >> person >> who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? >> > > I am curious about why you find case sensitivity annoying. But just > mildly curious. I'm glad you asked ;-) Case insensitivity gives you more choice about how to type keywords that you have no control over. if or If. for or For. i don't think being inconsistent within a single program is a good idea, but having your choice of which to do is nice. I personally think all lowercase is good, but some languages have capitalised keywords, so apparently other people prefer that. I don't think the "case sensitivity hurts beginners" argument is persuasive. Anyone who seriously wants to program can look up the correct capitalisation of everything. *If* having to look up or keep track of capitalisation is annoying, *then* that argument applies to experienced programmers (who are devoting memory to the issue) just as much as beginners. -- Elliot Temple http://www.curi.us/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
On 26 May 2005 17:33:33 -0700, "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the person >who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? I am curious about why you find case sensitivity annoying. But just mildly curious. Martelli can tell you why Guido keeping case sensitivity in Python was him bowing to the stupidity of the masses. I have been neutral on the subject except to the extent the impetous for going case insensitive would be to statisfy the needs - as Guido uses the word - "non-programmers". a) its probably better to design a programming language around the needs of programmers than around those of non-porgrammers. that much always seemed quite obvious to me. b) it would only help non-programmers who were more comfortable with case insensitivity but hurt non-progammers more comfortable with case sensitivity. That Martelli so strongly favors case insensitivity for his own use, is one of many indications that this is not an issue that cuts along the lines of quantity of programming experience.. That much also seemed pretty obvious, but it didn't seem to stop the folks who wanted case insensitivity from making the non-programmer accessibility issue paramount. and on the flimiest of evidence. Those who prefer sensitivity were anti-accessbility elitists. Damn near Republicans. Classic politics. Thankfully Guido seemed to have lost patience for the whole thing. I think the position is pretty much that Python will be case sensitive becasue it has been case sensitive. Art -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Dennis Lee Bieber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 26 May 2005 17:33:33 -0700, "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: > >> Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the person >> who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? >> > Making a language run faster on slow machines since the syntax > parsing doesn't have to do the equivalent of upper or lower casing > anything that is not a string literal before checking for keywords or > identifiers. > > Consider the time spent by languages like Ada and Fortran when > they have to do case normalization every time you compile. Hopefully, this should be minimal. You canonicalize them all as soon as you realize you can. With proper language design, this may be as soon as you recognize that they aren't in a string. This brings to mind the reason I quit using Microsoft products. I was writing z80 assembler, and habitually wrote everything in lower case, including all the op codes. The assembler refused to recognize the indexed instruction opcodes that were present on the z80 but not the 8080. I double-checked the op codes, did the "delete and retype" thing, and in general went crazy trying to figure out what was wrong. I eventually called Microsoft and asked. The answer was "Those have to be in upper case." That told me enough about the insides of MS software that I swore off it, and have never purchased an MS product since. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
John Roth wrote: > "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> One other interesting thing about case sensitivity I don't think >> anyone has mentioned: in Python keywords are all lowercase already >> (the way I want to type them). In some other languages, they aren't... > > Not quite. None, True and False are upper case. But those aren't keywords. (Well, None is a pseudo-keyword in Python 2.4, but...) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
"Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > One other interesting thing about case sensitivity I don't think anyone > has mentioned: in Python keywords are all lowercase already (the way I > want to type them). In some other languages, they aren't... Not quite. None, True and False are upper case. John Roth > > -- Elliot Temple > http://www.curi.us/ > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
One other interesting thing about case sensitivity I don't think anyone has mentioned: in Python keywords are all lowercase already (the way I want to type them). In some other languages, they aren't... -- Elliot Temple http://www.curi.us/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
John Roth wrote: > Doing case translations in Unicode following all of > the rules for all of the world's languages is, for want of a better > world, a real bitch. > Fair point, although that is true for anything, not just case translations. Fortunately, unlike Ecmascript, Python doesn't allow arbitrary unicode characters in identifiers. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
"Duncan Booth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > >> On 26 May 2005 17:33:33 -0700, "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: >> >>> Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the person >>> who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? >>> >> Making a language run faster on slow machines since the syntax >> parsing doesn't have to do the equivalent of upper or lower casing >> anything that is not a string literal before checking for keywords or >> identifiers. >> >> Consider the time spent by languages like Ada and Fortran when >> they have to do case normalization every time you compile. >> > That isn't a good argument for case sensitivity. You really aren't going > to > be able to measure a slowdown in compilation speed just because the > compiler has to lowercase all the identifiers before using them. Actually it is, but you have to get out of ASCII into the wider world of all of the real languages out there. Something I heard from one of the people who invented XML is that it originally started out as case insensitive, and they had quite an extensive discussion about it. When they made it case sensitive, one of the basic tools sped up by a factor of three. Doing case translations in Unicode following all of the rules for all of the world's languages is, for want of a better world, a real bitch. John Roth -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Duncan Booth said unto the world upon 2005-05-27 04:24: > There are arguments that, especially for beginners, case sensitivity > introduces an extra level of complexity, but the cost of losing this > complexity would be to make Python a poor relation amongst programming > languages. Well, this is just one man's anecdote, but Python was my first language since some BASIC many moons ago, and the case sensitivity neither got in my way, nor felt complex. Perhaps Python beginners with background in case insensitive languages do experience it differently. At any rate, since the sequence of characters 'somename' and 'SomeName' are different sequences, treating them as different names strikes me as the obviously right thing to do. Best to all, Brian vdB -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
i found case sensitivity very useful 1. variables can be stored in a dict (think about __dict__, globals()) and dict type should be case sensitive 2. It's necessary when i write short scripts and i use one letter names. (eg. when i playing with linear algebra i always use a,b,c for vectors and A,B,C for matrices). I dont want to think about "more than one letter" names when i run that script only once. And usually this is the case with python (at least when i use it in interpreted mode). 3. i write sometimes: class Foo: ... foo = Foo() and i think it's readable and makes sense. 4. actually i never wanted to use 'foo', 'Foo' and 'FOO' for the same variable and i can't imagine a situation when it's useful. it makes the code less readable so i think the language should force the programmer not to use different names for the same variable. nsz -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On 26 May 2005 17:33:33 -0700, "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: > >> Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the person >> who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? >> > Making a language run faster on slow machines since the syntax > parsing doesn't have to do the equivalent of upper or lower casing > anything that is not a string literal before checking for keywords or > identifiers. > > Consider the time spent by languages like Ada and Fortran when > they have to do case normalization every time you compile. > That isn't a good argument for case sensitivity. You really aren't going to be able to measure a slowdown in compilation speed just because the compiler has to lowercase all the identifiers before using them. What I consider good arguments for case sensitivity are: Consistency. I've used non-case sensitive languages where the same variable was spelled sometimes with capitals and sometimes without. Forcing you to choose one case and stick to it is, IMHO a good thing. Worse, I've used Visual Basic where the editor will gratuitously change the case of a variable you just typed in because there is another occurrence of the same name somewhere else in a different case. Conventions such as capitalising class names, or camelCasing can be useful. Again this only applies if they are used consistently. Interoperability. Like it or not, there are other case sensitive systems out there. I once had the misfortune to use a Microsoft Access database (where lookups on indexed fields are case insensitive) to store records indexed by a case sensitive medical coding system. Codes in that system do exist which differ from other completely unrelated conditions only by the case of the code. The only way to handle this in a case insensitive system is to somehow escape each case sensitive code. That particular example wouldn't necessarily apply to a case insensitive programming language, but plenty of others would: e.g. using a remote procedure call system to call a (case sensitive) function on another system. In all such cases, the case insensitive system is the 'poor relation', it is the one where you have to introduce workrounds in order to communicate with the case sensitive system. Going in the other direction (calling a case insensitive function from a case sensitive system) you simply have to invent a convention (e.g. lowercase everything) and stick by it. There are arguments that, especially for beginners, case sensitivity introduces an extra level of complexity, but the cost of losing this complexity would be to make Python a poor relation amongst programming languages. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Elliot Temple wrote: > Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the person > who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? I wasn't that person, but I do find case sensitivity very useful. Mainly it's useful in that it allows me not to spend any time at all worrying that I just might have a collision in my naming of various entities that are conceptually in different spaces but which -- due to the nature of the language I'm using -- happen to co-exist in the same namespace. For example, although this contrived example suggests poor imagination in picking names, I think it demonstrates the point. INVENTORYCODE = 5 # in effect one item in a constant "enum" class InventoryCode: '''Might represent something to do with inventory codes... duh''' def myfunc(): inventoryCode = someOtherFunction() In other words, I have a CONSTANT, a Class, and an instance, and if the set of code involved were large enough, these three things might be defined far enough apart that the potential collision wouldn't be as obvious as it is here. More to the point, there might not be any relationship between these things in my mind as I'm programming, and having to deal with an error message from a compiler or, worse, a run time error resulting from this collision would really annoy me. Case sensitivity might not be something we should be deliberately exercising on a daily basis, but there's no good reason (in my opinion) for not having it available to allow one freedom in naming (assuming one is sane and uses consistent convention for the case of things like constants, classes, and instances) without the worry of pesky collisions. -Peter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
"Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Hi I have two questions. ... > Also, why aren't there > multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? As a matter of fact, yes. First, consider that as soon as you have multi-line comments, someone is going to request nested multi-line comments. (In other words, the compiler should check that the embedded comment is still correct.) That rapidly leads to madness. Second, multi-line comments aren't really necessary; as someone in the thread commented, a decent editor or IDE will allow adding or removing comments from a block of code easily. Python's philosophy is to only add features when there is a use case that will improve the language significantly, and commenting out a block of code for testing isn't it. (It's also not the world's best practice, but that's another subject.) John Roth > > Thanks, > Elliot > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Thanks for the link on case sensitivity. I'm curious about the person who found case sensitivity useful though: what is it useful for? The way I find multi-line comments useful is to quickly comment out a block of code while debugging. A good development environment can (mostly) solve that one though. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Mike Meyer wrote: > Personally, I think anyone who has two variables whose names differ > only in case should be shot. No, let me extend that - anyone who has > two variables whose names would be pronounced the same should be > shot. I've had to debug such code, and it ain't fun. Here's a pair of targets for you: From "Software Engineering with Modula-2 and Ada", by Wiener & Sincovec, page 84: WITH w^ DO ... Col := column; Row := row; It turns out that 'Row' & 'Col' are module-global variables holding the current cursor position, and 'row' & 'column' are elements of the record to which 'w' points. Here's another corollary for Meyer's Law: Anyone who has two variables the name of one of which is, or could reasonably be understood to be, an abbreviation of the name of the other should be shot. Cheers, John -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Mike Meyer wrote: > "Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Also, why aren't there >>multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? > > Because no one every really asked for them. After all, there are two > formats for multi-line strings, which the interpreter will build and > then discard. There are tools that recognize multi-line strings after > function/method definitions and treat them as function documentation. > > Adding multiline comments probably wouldn't be a problem - you'd just > have to come up with an introductory character sequence that can't > occur in the language (not that that stopped C). But you'd have to get > someone to write the code, then someone with commit privs to decide it > was useful enough to commit. That seems to be a lot of work for very > little gain. Don't we already have multi-line comments in the form of string literals? -- Paul McNett http://paulmcnett.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
"Elliot Temple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is > case sensitive? I find that annoying. Because it comes from a language background of case sensitive languages (C, shell, etc.). But read what the BDFL has to say about it: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-July/054788.html > Personally, I think anyone who has two variables whose names differ only in case should be shot. No, let me extend that - anyone who has two variables whose names would be pronounced the same should be shot. I've had to debug such code, and it ain't fun. Variables whose name differs from the class they are instance of only in case is the only allowable exception. And should be used with care. On the same note, anyone who spells a variable name with different cases because the languge is case-insensitive should be shot. I want to be able to use various source analysis tools without having to worry about dealing with two different ascii strings being names for a single variable. Add those two together, and you'll see that *I don't care*. I consider taking advantage of a language being case-sensitive or case-insensitive to be a bad idea, so it doesn't matter what the language does. > Also, why aren't there > multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? Because no one every really asked for them. After all, there are two formats for multi-line strings, which the interpreter will build and then discard. There are tools that recognize multi-line strings after function/method definitions and treat them as function documentation. Adding multiline comments probably wouldn't be a problem - you'd just have to come up with an introductory character sequence that can't occur in the language (not that that stopped C). But you'd have to get someone to write the code, then someone with commit privs to decide it was useful enough to commit. That seems to be a lot of work for very little gain. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Hi, A1: because some people find it very useful ? I know I do A2: they exist: """ Regards, Philippe Elliot Temple wrote: > Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is > case sensitive? I find that annoying. Also, why aren't there > multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? > > Thanks, > Elliot -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Case Sensitive, Multiline Comments
Hi I have two questions. Could someone explain to me why Python is case sensitive? I find that annoying. Also, why aren't there multiline comments? Would adding them cause a problem of some sort? Thanks, Elliot -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
