Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
W dniu 09.12.2018, nie o godzinie 15∶50 -0500, użytkownik Terry Reedy napisał: > > Mypy recognizes this sublanguage to 'compute' whether calls conform > to > the defined interfaces. > As far as I understand currently it computes if declaration commits to static type. What I propose is to annotate type with "duck" typing checker and futher it could make suggester for duck typing. We can imagine duck typing suggester for imaginary entity class which accepts finders like in Ruby on rails : "find_by_name" "find_by_id" "find_by_name_and_something" Then when you type "find_" it will suggest futher method name. When you finish typing "find_by_name_and_length" for example it will force you to put two paramters of type string and int > > -- > Terry Jan Reedy > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
On 12/9/2018 11:37 AM, Jon Ribbens wrote: On 2018-12-09, Marek Mosiewicz wrote: I'm talking about this https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html I'm not talking about new language. I think it could be nice to have standard PEP annotations for classes to make type validation or type hints when writing code. This class valiadtors would be optional and run only when developer wants to validate or write code, not in production as it is heavy. Yes, I think that's exactly what http://www.mypy-lang.org/ is. It is not a new language, All libraries extend the language by adding names that python recognizes. The typing additions are more like a new sublanguage than most in that the new objects are not for computation in the traditional sense but for representation of concepts. Mypy recognizes this sublanguage to 'compute' whether calls conform to the defined interfaces. despite the rather strange choice of domain name for it. mypy.org is a 'parked' domain name for sale. mypy.com is a misc tech news site (nothing about Python) dead since Jan 2014. I don't know the genesis of the names above, but 'mypy' is a rather obvious contraction of 'my py'(thon). I once had a directory of my python scripts called 'mypy', in a directory on sys.path, so I could run one with "python -m mypy.scriptname. I changed my name to not conflict. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
On 2018-12-09, Marek Mosiewicz wrote: > I'm talking about this https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html > > I'm not talking about new language. I think it could be nice to have > standard PEP annotations for classes to make type validation or type > hints when writing code. ... > This class valiadtors would be optional and run only when developer > wants to validate or write code, not in production as it is heavy. Yes, I think that's exactly what http://www.mypy-lang.org/ is. It is not a new language, despite the rather strange choice of domain name for it. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
I'm talking about this https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html I'm not talking about new language. I think it could be nice to have standard PEP annotations for classes to make type validation or type hints when writing code. It would be best of two worlds. Dynamic language with optional type chceking if somebody wants it. In Groovy language there is annotation to indicate that you can not make calls to methods which do not exist. It could go futher and you could have annotation which validates whatever method signature if it is valid. For example you can have valiadator for something like Ruby on Rails in Ruby language for methods which starts with find: invoice.find_by_name invoice.find_by_name_and_description It could be even better and give you type hints when you type method name. In this example when you write in IDE: invoice.find_by_ it would suggest you futher possible method parts and possible parameters for method. This class valiadtors would be optional and run only when developer wants to validate or write code, not in production as it is heavy. W dniu 06.12.2018, czw o godzinie 20∶06 +, użytkownik Jon Ribbens napisał: > On 2018-12-06, Marek Mosiewicz wrote: > > I'm Java developer,but had some experience with Python based > > ERP software. It is quite serious application and I feel > > unconfortable with not having type checking. I do not say language > > should be static, but having checking method signature > > is big win. For example in refactoring. > > I know that Python 3 has possibility to have indicate > > type for varibale or param > > Are you talking about http://www.mypy-lang.org/ ? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
Marek Mosiewicz writes: > ... > I know that Python 3 has possibility to have indicate > type for varibale or param > What could be great to have possibility to annotate any > class with what I call "type evaluator" function. > That could check method signature with rules specific > for given type. > The simplest evaluator would simply check if signature > is same as method definition. > But it could go futher. It could check whatever is valid > logic for creating methods in given class and whatever > are valid params for given method. > Even more powerful evaluator could be not only > valid/not valid indicator. It could validate > and suggest next param or method part name for given > written part of call. That could make python IDEs > much more powerful > From my experience having signature checking and > hinting params when writing code is really big win. You *can* do all that in Python -- even though you need something beyond what Python typically comes with. First, you need a formalisms to describe what should be checked. There are various alternatives: I am using "zope.interface" (to describe method signatures) and "zope.schema" (to describe the "type" of attributes). Next, you need something that does the checking. Again, there are alternatives. I prefer to check things in test suites -- and not permanently during productive use. But, Python has the powerfull "metaclass" concept. A metaclass allows you to customize class construction and e.g. to instrument all defined methods to perform automatic checks. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
On 06/12/2018 11:48, Marek Mosiewicz wrote: > I'm Java developer,but had some experience with Python based > ERP software. It is quite serious application and I feel > unconfortable with not having type checking. I do not say language > should be static, but having checking method signature > is big win. For example in refactoring. I get the feeling that you're essentially describing mypy. > I know that Python 3 has possibility to have indicate > type for varibale or param > What could be great to have possibility to annotate any > class with what I call "type evaluator" function. > That could check method signature with rules specific > for given type. > The simplest evaluator would simply check if signature > is same as method definition. > But it could go futher. It could check whatever is valid > logic for creating methods in given class and whatever > are valid params for given method. > Even more powerful evaluator could be not only > valid/not valid indicator. It could validate > and suggest next param or method part name for given > written part of call. That could make python IDEs > much more powerful > From my experience having signature checking and > hinting params when writing code is really big win. > I could simply refactor 10 lines of code in > Java, but same for Python is much more difficult > > Best regards, > Marek Mosiewicz > > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
On 2018-12-06, Marek Mosiewicz wrote: > I'm Java developer,but had some experience with Python based > ERP software. It is quite serious application and I feel > unconfortable with not having type checking. I do not say language > should be static, but having checking method signature > is big win. For example in refactoring. > I know that Python 3 has possibility to have indicate > type for varibale or param Are you talking about http://www.mypy-lang.org/ ? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Creating type evaluation annotation
On 12/6/2018 5:48 AM, Marek Mosiewicz wrote: I'm Java developer,but had some experience with Python based ERP software. It is quite serious application and I feel unconfortable with not having type checking. I do not say language should be static, but having checking method signature is big win. For example in refactoring. I know that Python 3 has possibility to have indicate type for varibale or param What could be great to have possibility to annotate any class with what I call "type evaluator" function. That could check method signature with rules specific for given type. This and the following needs simple concrete examples. Withing such, my eyes glaze over. The simplest evaluator would simply check if signature is same as method definition. But it could go futher. It could check whatever is valid logic for creating methods in given class and whatever are valid params for given method. Even more powerful evaluator could be not only valid/not valid indicator. It could validate and suggest next param or method part name for given written part of call. That could make python IDEs much more powerful From my experience having signature checking and hinting params when writing code is really big win. I could simply refactor 10 lines of code in Java, but same for Python is much more difficult Best regards, Marek Mosiewicz -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Creating type evaluation annotation
I'm Java developer,but had some experience with Python based ERP software. It is quite serious application and I feel unconfortable with not having type checking. I do not say language should be static, but having checking method signature is big win. For example in refactoring. I know that Python 3 has possibility to have indicate type for varibale or param What could be great to have possibility to annotate any class with what I call "type evaluator" function. That could check method signature with rules specific for given type. The simplest evaluator would simply check if signature is same as method definition. But it could go futher. It could check whatever is valid logic for creating methods in given class and whatever are valid params for given method. Even more powerful evaluator could be not only valid/not valid indicator. It could validate and suggest next param or method part name for given written part of call. That could make python IDEs much more powerful From my experience having signature checking and hinting params when writing code is really big win. I could simply refactor 10 lines of code in Java, but same for Python is much more difficult Best regards, Marek Mosiewicz -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
