Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ? Maybe with ShedSkin
MalC0de wrote: hello there, I've a question : I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me some snippet . thanks - Malc0de With the CPython interpretive system, it's not likely to work. But using ShedSkin, which generates hard machine code, it might be possible. The main problem is that Shed Skin uses a garbage-collected environment, which few kernels have. Under QNX, which is a a real message-passing operating system with all drivers in user space, it should be possible to write a driver in Python. There's Python for QNX. It would probably be too slow to be useful, though. I've actually written a handler for Baudot Teletype machines in Python. See https://sourceforge.net/projects/baudotrss/ Those machines are so slow (45.45 baud) that Python isn't the bottleneck. John Nagle -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:45 +1200, greg wrote: > That's what killed things like the Lisp machine. Their developers > couldn't keep up with the huge resources that people like Intel and > Motorola had to throw at CPU development, so eventually a > general-purpose CPU could run Lisp faster than a Lisp machine. When you say "eventually", I think you mean "decades ago". I recall a collaboration between Apple and Texas Instruments to build a Macintosh with a Lisp Machine in the late 1980s. From the one box, you could run two computers simultaneously, with two operating systems, one running the Motorola 68020 and the other a Lisp Machine processor. I don't think it sold very well -- by memory, benchmarks showed that for half (or less) of the price, you could run Lisp in software on a vanilla Mac and the software would be faster than running it on the Lisp Machine. TI also had at least one Nubus card for the Mac running a Lisp Machine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Explorer On a similar note, there were Forth machines also available for the Apple Macintosh. Unlike Lisp, I think they suffered from the general lack of popularity of Forth rather than lack of speed. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On 30 Jul, 02:19, MalC0de wrote: > actually I mean driver programming under Windows operating system, if > you know, there's A kit name DDK available at microsoft's website for > developing device drivers under C / C++ environment, Actually, Microsoft has replaced DDK with a new kit called WDK for Vista. The funny thing about WDK is that there are a lot of illegal C and C++ in the headers, which even Microsoft's own compiler refuse to accept. So good luck on getting anything to compile. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Francesco Bochicchio wrote: I wonder: has anybody thought of making a python-machine, or at least a processor able to directly execute high-level bytecode (LLVM-like?). In some of my idle moments I've speculated on what such a machine might be like. One of my ideas for potential future projects is to flesh out the design and maybe even build an FPGA prototype. It would purely be for fun, though. It's unlikely that such a processor would be able to compete speed-wise with a general-purpose CPU running a Python interpreter with critical libraries written in C. That's what killed things like the Lisp machine. Their developers couldn't keep up with the huge resources that people like Intel and Motorola had to throw at CPU development, so eventually a general-purpose CPU could run Lisp faster than a Lisp machine. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On Thursday 30 July 2009 15:20:45 Dave Angel wrote: > As far as I know, nobody has yet built a microcode implementation of a > Python VM (Virtual Machine). Nor have I seen one for the Java VM. Atmel has made an ARM that has support for Java Bytecode. AT91SAM9X512 and friends (smaller versions) - Hendrik -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Ben Finney wrote: "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: Machine Code: Whatever the machine executes, it could be that the CPU uses an abstraction of microcode to do this but from the perspective of the user, this is all done in the same 'black box' This requires, of course, defining what is the machine. Python bytecode targets a virtual machine that is implemented differently for each hardware platform. Compiling: Translate words/symbols/mnemonics to machine code, which than can be either loaded, linked and executed by an OS or read and executed by the BIOS. Related to the above point, the “machine code” can just as easily be codes for a virtual machine specification. This is the case for the bytecode instructions Python gets compiled to. Interpreted: Instructions which can be fed to a previous compiled program that is able to dynamically change its execution and flow without the need to recompile itself. This doesn't make much sense to me, I must say. I'd say, instead, that a program is interpreted if its instruction are dynamically translated to underlying platform instructions at execution time. This is the case for the bytecode instructions interpreted by the Python virtual machine. I would have said compiled is executed by hardware, interpreted is executed by software -- but I like your definition better. :) ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
MalC0de wrote: > please introduce me some resource for system programming, I know that > python is very well at system programming level. > thanks Although it is possible (as others have said) to embed Python the interpreter into a driver, no one has done that that I know of. You'd have to write the driver in C or C++, though, and then provide embed a python interpreter and then provide a python interface (wrapper code written in C++) that would expose binary primitives and structures to python that the OS and driver use. Sounds like quite an undertaking. I embedded a python interpreter in a gina dll once (to write login code in python). That's a form of system programming, but not what you're asking about. Someone years ago someone embedded the perl interpreter into a Linux driver allowing some kinds of device drivers to be written in perl. It was made more as a curiosity though. Python is not well-suited to system programming. It takes extra work (via the ctypes library or other wrappers) to interface with C structs, plus calls all have to be marshalled to and from the native C APIs. Might be cool, though. System programming in Win32 is very complicated and messy. What little system programming I've done in Linux was a dream compared. Definitely you'll have to master win32 system programming in C and C++ before you try to embed python in anything. I'm sure there are a number of books on the subject. That's where I'd start. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Ben Finney wrote: "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: Machine Code: Whatever the machine executes, it could be that the CPU uses an abstraction of microcode to do this but from the perspective of the user, this is all done in the same 'black box' This requires, of course, defining what is the machine. Python bytecode targets a virtual machine that is implemented differently for each hardware platform. Compiling: Translate words/symbols/mnemonics to machine code, which than can be either loaded, linked and executed by an OS or read and executed by the BIOS. Related to the above point, the “machine code” can just as easily be codes for a virtual machine specification. This is the case for the bytecode instructions Python gets compiled to. Interpreted: Instructions which can be fed to a previous compiled program that is able to dynamically change its execution and flow without the need to recompile itself. This doesn't make much sense to me, I must say. I'd say, instead, that a program is interpreted if its instruction are dynamically translated to underlying platform instructions at execution time. This is the case for the bytecode instructions interpreted by the Python virtual machine. Interpretation doesn't necessarily mean translating to machine code at execution time. What you're describing is more like JIT. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Dave Angel wrote: [snip] As far as I know, nobody has yet built a microcode implementation of a Python VM (Virtual Machine). Nor have I seen one for the Java VM. However, in the early 80's there was a microcode implementation of the P-system VM. It was never a commercial success, but it existed. And there have been at least three Forth machines, where the hardware itself was designed to support the language's VM. No microcode at all. There's Jazelle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Ben Finney wrote: "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: Machine Code: Whatever the machine executes, it could be that the CPU uses an abstraction of microcode to do this but from the perspective of the user, this is all done in the same 'black box' This requires, of course, defining what is the machine. Python bytecode targets a virtual machine that is implemented differently for each hardware platform. I would further define 'black box' as the hardware a kernel programmer writes to. Interpreted: Instructions which can be fed to a previous compiled program that is able to dynamically change its execution and flow without the need to recompile itself. This doesn't make much sense to me, I must say. I'd say, instead, that a program is interpreted if its instruction are dynamically translated to underlying platform instructions at execution time. This is the case for the bytecode instructions interpreted by the Python virtual machine. Yes that is indeed a much better description, I'll steal that from you :-) -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On 2009-07-30, Dave Angel wrote: > As far as I know, nobody has yet built a microcode implementation of a > Python VM (Virtual Machine). Nor have I seen one for the Java VM. Didn't Sun or somebody do one 10-12 years ago? Or did I misinterpret some press release or something? Off to google... > However, in the early 80's there was a microcode implementation of the > P-system VM. Ah yes. I remember sitting at an Intel MDS-80 "blue box" CP/M system entering assembly language by hand for a simple Pascal -> P-code compiler. IIRC, I typed it from a listing in the "Byte Big Book of Pascal". That machine was pretty high-tech, since I could save my work on an 8" floppy rather than a spool of paper tape. The floppy disks didn't leave big oil stains in your backpack! I got the compiler working, but I don't remember ever having a VM and run-time system. > It was never a commercial success, but it existed. And there > have been at least three Forth machines, where the hardware > itself was designed to support the language's VM. No > microcode at all. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! When you get your at PH.D. will you get able to visi.comwork at BURGER KING? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On 2009-07-30, Martin P. Hellwig wrote: > Michel Claveau - MVP wrote: > >>> Python is interpreted >> >> No. Python is compiled (--> .pyc) >> But the term "to compile" is not always unambiguous... >> And the notion of "compiler" is not attached to Python (the >> language), but is attached to the implementation. > > Well the pyc, which I thought was the Python bytecode, It is, but that's just one particular implementation you're talking about (though by far the most widely used one). > is then interpreted by the VM. Yup. Just like .exe files are interpreted by the microcode in the processor that implements the IA32 VM. It would be quite possible to put a Python VM into hardware. Alternatevly, you can compiler Python into Java bytecode and run that "directly" on hardware. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! It don't mean a at THING if you ain't got visi.comthat SWING!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
"Martin P. Hellwig" writes: > Machine Code: > Whatever the machine executes, it could be that the CPU uses an > abstraction of microcode to do this but from the perspective of the > user, this is all done in the same 'black box' This requires, of course, defining what is the machine. Python bytecode targets a virtual machine that is implemented differently for each hardware platform. > Compiling: > Translate words/symbols/mnemonics to machine code, which than can be > either loaded, linked and executed by an OS or read and executed by > the BIOS. Related to the above point, the “machine code” can just as easily be codes for a virtual machine specification. This is the case for the bytecode instructions Python gets compiled to. > Interpreted: > Instructions which can be fed to a previous compiled program that is > able to dynamically change its execution and flow without the need to > recompile itself. This doesn't make much sense to me, I must say. I'd say, instead, that a program is interpreted if its instruction are dynamically translated to underlying platform instructions at execution time. This is the case for the bytecode instructions interpreted by the Python virtual machine. -- \ “Often, the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the | `\ strict truth.” —Mark Twain, _Following the Equator_ | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Dave Angel wrote: Ah yes, we thread on the territory of word definition and difference in interpretation. Any argument is doomed to fail if not agreed or at least taken in perspective of the terminology used by users. I could be (well it is quite likely) wrong in my interpretation of the terminology, but here goes it anyway: Machine Code: Whatever the machine executes, it could be that the CPU uses an abstraction of microcode to do this but from the perspective of the user, this is all done in the same 'black box' Compiling: Translate words/symbols/mnemonics to machine code, which than can be either loaded, linked and executed by an OS or read and executed by the BIOS. Interpreted: Instructions which can be fed to a previous compiled program that is able to dynamically change its execution and flow without the need to recompile itself. Depending on the level of understanding of the user, plus his history and his biases, he will include more or less in his "black box." In the old days, microcode was not "on-chip" but stored separately in control memory. And on many machines, it was changeable at will. To many users these days, the entire system including software is a black box, which gradually breaks down (gets slow, runs out of space, crashes a lot) and must be replaced. They don't distinguish operating system from application, real memory from virtual, or viruses from bugs. But of course those users wouldn't be participating in this discussion. My background includes specifying hardware instruction sets and architecture. And writing microcode for multiple machines. And writing parts of compilers, interpreters, assemblers, and so on. And microcoding interpreters. And hooking into compilers to modify how they would generate code. And hooking into runtimes to test running code in realtime. So I tend to have very flexible definition of compiler and interpreter. Probably the only reason I jumped in here was the unmentioned bias that somehow a compiler is superior to an interpreter. I think I'd better extend my definition of compilation. It's a step that's statically taken over a series of instructions (not necessarily text source), that transforms it into a form closer to the targeted enviromment, real or virtual. Most C++ compilers have two compilers operating serially, the first to turn the source code into an intermediate form (like byte code), and the second to generate what is commonly called "machine code." The second part of course is duplicated for each different target processor. So Java is compiled into byte code, and the typical java VM then compiles that piecewise into machine code (so called JIT compiling, for just in time). BTW, interpreters don't have to be written in a compiled language. Anyway, I don't object to your definitions. We all have different perspectives. DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Dave Angel wrote: Ah yes, we thread on the territory of word definition and difference in interpretation. Any argument is doomed to fail if not agreed or at least taken in perspective of the terminology used by users. I could be (well it is quite likely) wrong in my interpretation of the terminology, but here goes it anyway: Machine Code: Whatever the machine executes, it could be that the CPU uses an abstraction of microcode to do this but from the perspective of the user, this is all done in the same 'black box' Compiling: Translate words/symbols/mnemonics to machine code, which than can be either loaded, linked and executed by an OS or read and executed by the BIOS. Interpreted: Instructions which can be fed to a previous compiled program that is able to dynamically change its execution and flow without the need to recompile itself. -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
"Michel Claveau - MVP" writes: > Hi! > > > Python is interpreted > > No. Yes. The same Python code is both interpreted and compiled so as to run it. > Python is compiled (--> .pyc) The Python bytecode (the contents of the compiled ‘foo.pyc’ file) is then interpreted by the run-time Python interpreter, to actually run the program. -- \ “Value your freedom or you will lose it, teaches history. | `\ “Don't bother us with politics,” respond those who don't want | _o__) to learn.” —Richard Stallman, 2002 | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Michel Claveau - MVP wrote: Hi! Python is interpreted No. Python is compiled (--> .pyc) But the term "to compile" is not always unambiguous... And the notion of "compiler" is not attached to Python (the language), but is attached to the implementation. @+ MCI Well the pyc, which I thought was the Python bytecode, is then interpreted by the VM. As Michel says, "to compile" is not always unambiguous. My definition includes a one-way transformation from human-readable source text into something that can be more efficiently interpreted by other code, or by hardware. The compiler really doesn't care whether the machine it's targeting is real or virtual. The CPython implementation of Python compiles the source text into a bytecode file, with extension .pyc.That certainly is a compilation step. Followed (much) later by an interpreted one. To pick a specific implementation of C++, Microsoft C++ compiles C++ source text into an "executable file," with extension .exe (I'm ignoring little details, like the linker). That's a compilation step. Then the exe file is (later) interpreted by the microcode on the Pentium chip. As far as I know, nobody has yet built a microcode implementation of a Python VM (Virtual Machine). Nor have I seen one for the Java VM. However, in the early 80's there was a microcode implementation of the P-system VM. It was never a commercial success, but it existed. And there have been at least three Forth machines, where the hardware itself was designed to support the language's VM. No microcode at all. DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:49 AM, Francesco Bochicchio wrote: > On Jul 30, 11:10 am, Christian Heimes wrote: >> Martin P. Hellwig wrote: >> > Well the pyc, which I thought was the Python bytecode, is then >> > interpreted by the VM. >> >> Python is often referred as byte-code interpreted language. Most modern >> languages are interpreted languages. The list [1] is rather long. >> Technically speaking even native code is interpreted by the micro code >> of most CPUs. >> >> [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreted_language >> [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode > > Once upon a time there where lisp machines, whith processors designed > to fastly execute lisp code ... I worked with one of them for 2 > years. > I wonder: has anybody thought of making a python-machine, or at least > a processor able to directly execute high-level bytecode (LLVM-like?). > I think the main feature of such a machine should be hyper-fast hash > lookup. Then dynamic memory management hardware ... Yes, it was considered a decade ago: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/1999-June/004451.html Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On Jul 30, 11:10 am, Christian Heimes wrote: > Martin P. Hellwig wrote: > > Well the pyc, which I thought was the Python bytecode, is then > > interpreted by the VM. > > Python is often referred as byte-code interpreted language. Most modern > languages are interpreted languages. The list [1] is rather long. > Technically speaking even native code is interpreted by the micro code > of most CPUs. > > [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreted_language > [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode Once upon a time there where lisp machines, whith processors designed to fastly execute lisp code ... I worked with one of them for 2 years. I wonder: has anybody thought of making a python-machine, or at least a processor able to directly execute high-level bytecode (LLVM-like?). I think the main feature of such a machine should be hyper-fast hash lookup. Then dynamic memory management hardware ... Ciao - FB -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Martin P. Hellwig wrote: > Well the pyc, which I thought was the Python bytecode, is then > interpreted by the VM. Python is often referred as byte-code interpreted language. Most modern languages are interpreted languages. The list [1] is rather long. Technically speaking even native code is interpreted by the micro code of most CPUs. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreted_language [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Michel Claveau - MVP wrote: Hi! Python is interpreted No. Python is compiled (--> .pyc) But the term "to compile" is not always unambiguous... And the notion of "compiler" is not attached to Python (the language), but is attached to the implementation. @+ MCI Well the pyc, which I thought was the Python bytecode, is then interpreted by the VM. -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Marcus Wanner wrote: Look for example to libusb, which provides a userspace environment and pyusb which uses that and provides an interface to Python. iicr pyusb uses a c interface to libusb, not python... According to them they use ctypes indeed. Sorry if I was misleading in my explanation. -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Hi! > Python is interpreted No. Python is compiled (--> .pyc) But the term "to compile" is not always unambiguous... And the notion of "compiler" is not attached to Python (the language), but is attached to the implementation. @+ MCI -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Nick Craig-Wood schrieb: Diez B. Roggisch wrote: MalC0de schrieb: hello there, I've a question : I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me some snippet . No, it can't do such things. At least it isn't embedded in the kernel - in theory that might be possible, but given the timing-constraints and concurrency-requirements, it's not really feasible. You can write FUSE (file systems in userspace) drivers in python I believe. Not the same as running in ring0 but in most senses a kernel driver... No. That's why it is called "userspace". The kernel just hooks into a running program. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
"Martin P. Hellwig" writes: > Python is interpreted, so the first requirement would be that the > interpreter (the python VM to be more precise) would run in the kernel > or that there is a way for the interpreter to delegate operations to > kernel restricted operations. Most notably access to the memory > location of the hardware you want to write a driver for and possibly > also a way to pass through a callback function for triggered > interrupt coming from the hardware. > > So technically speaking it shouldn't be impossible. And there is > perhaps something to say for being able to write drivers in a > readable/easy programming language however I am afraid that if such a > beast would be made that it would remain an academical exercise only > due to performance constraints. What about user level device drivers? Think the Python VM could communicate with the driver through the user space API. Is there a Python module for that? -- Rodrigo S. Wanderley -- Blog: http://rsw.digi.com.br -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
On 7/29/2009 7:44 PM, Martin P. Hellwig wrote: Rodrigo S Wanderley wrote: What about user level device drivers? Think the Python VM could communicate with the driver through the user space API. Is there a Python module for that? Sure why not? Look for example to libusb, which provides a userspace environment and pyusb which uses that and provides an interface to Python. iicr pyusb uses a c interface to libusb, not python... Marcus -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
actually I mean driver programming under Windows operating system, if you know, there's A kit name DDK available at microsoft's website for developing device drivers under C / C++ environment, now i'm working with this kind of toolkit, but when I started programming with Python, I saw this is very good and easy to develop application in all aspects of a programmer or customer . I love python cuze I can write every application i want, it's easy and it's very robust, But i thought if there's any available toolkit like Microsoft DDK which can program driver under windows but based on python it's very good and well, I don't know it's the lack of python or interpreter concept but cuze of the extensibility of python if such a good feature can be added to python it will be good enough. actually I want to write device drivers in Ring0 mode or kernel mode ... please introduce me some resource for system programming, I know that python is very well at system programming level. thanks - Malc0de -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Rodrigo S Wanderley wrote: What about user level device drivers? Think the Python VM could communicate with the driver through the user space API. Is there a Python module for that? Sure why not? Look for example to libusb, which provides a userspace environment and pyusb which uses that and provides an interface to Python. -- MPH -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
MalC0de wrote: > hello there, I've a question : > I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and > kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . > if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for > this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me > some snippet . What operating system are you talking about? Most device drivers run at ring 3 (or lower) and not zero. This way if there is a driver crash the whole operating system doesn't freeze. Python is generally considered a high-level language. If you want to play around with drivers.. usb serial.. etc do it at a python level through the existing device drivers. imho the performance of interpreted python isn't compatible with writing block-mode device drivers (hard-disks) and so forth. What hardware do you have that you need to write a device driver for ? Isn't there a device driver available already? or do you mean just a device controller? David -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
MalC0de wrote: hello there, I've a question : I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me some snippet . thanks - Malc0de Python is interpreted, so the first requirement would be that the interpreter (the python VM to be more precise) would run in the kernel or that there is a way for the interpreter to delegate operations to kernel restricted operations. Most notably access to the memory location of the hardware you want to write a driver for and possibly also a way to pass through a callback function for triggered interrupt coming from the hardware. So technically speaking it shouldn't be impossible. And there is perhaps something to say for being able to write drivers in a readable/easy programming language however I am afraid that if such a beast would be made that it would remain an academical exercise only due to performance constraints. Though I would love to play around with a system where the kernel is essentially only a python interpreter, with full raw access to the hardware. But creating such a thing requires more talent and understanding than currently (and probably ever) in my possession. -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
Diez B. Roggisch wrote: > MalC0de schrieb: > > hello there, I've a question : > > I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and > > kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . > > if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for > > this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me > > some snippet . > > No, it can't do such things. At least it isn't embedded in the kernel - > in theory that might be possible, but given the timing-constraints and > concurrency-requirements, it's not really feasible. You can write FUSE (file systems in userspace) drivers in python I believe. Not the same as running in ring0 but in most senses a kernel driver... -- Nick Craig-Wood -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
MalC0de schrieb: hello there, I've a question : I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me some snippet . No, it can't do such things. At least it isn't embedded in the kernel - in theory that might be possible, but given the timing-constraints and concurrency-requirements, it's not really feasible. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Does python have the capability for driver development ?
hello there, I've a question : I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and kernel functions for driver and device development stuff . if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me some snippet . thanks - Malc0de -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
