Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
I'm really sad to hear that news! Python is the language which made me gain the most skills in modern software programming ever! I have not encountered a better programming language than Python for quickly becoming a mature developer! I just hope the Python software foundation will continue to provide to his community all the same services than before and that the project will continue to evolve! Thanks for everything Guido! :-) Etienne -- Etienne Robillard tkad...@yandex.com https://www.isotopesoftware.ca/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 07/14/2018 10:16 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: >> Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate to >> new languages? This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. > > Umm, yeah. The language is stable, widely used packages are stable. > Guido actually has little involvement in the larger Python ecosystem. > It's not like NumPy, Django, Pandas, Flask, PyPI, Conda, or other > popular packages or subsystems built with/for Python are suddenly > going to crumble because Guido is no longer BDFL. > > But, by all means, if rewriting your applications in a different > language floats your boat, go right ahead... > > Skip > +1 -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
> Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate to > new languages? This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. Umm, yeah. The language is stable, widely used packages are stable. Guido actually has little involvement in the larger Python ecosystem. It's not like NumPy, Django, Pandas, Flask, PyPI, Conda, or other popular packages or subsystems built with/for Python are suddenly going to crumble because Guido is no longer BDFL. But, by all means, if rewriting your applications in a different language floats your boat, go right ahead... Skip -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 13/07/18 00:20, Roel Schroeven wrote: > Yes, you read that right: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader. > > See his mail: > (https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html) Thanks for posting this here, Roel. Much appreciated. Guido has been fantastic, and he will be missed in his well-deserved retirement. Of course I have complete faith that the core devs will do a great job in the future steering Python forward. The Python community is sure to prosper even if this unexpected change creates some minor temporary challenges. Threads like this, on the other hand, can make you worry for the soul of Python. > >> Now that PEP 572 is done, I don't ever want to have to fight so hard >> for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions. >> >> I would like to remove myself entirely from the decision process. >> I'll still be there for a while as an ordinary core dev, and I'll >> still be available to mentor people -- possibly more available. But >> I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL, and >> you all will be on your own. >> >> After all that's eventually going to happen regardless -- there's >> still that bus lurking around the corner, and I'm not getting >> younger... (I'll spare you the list of medical issues.) >> >> I am not going to appoint a successor. >> >> So what are you all going to do? Create a democracy? Anarchy? A >> dictatorship? A federation? >> >> I'm not worried about the day to day decisions in the issue tracker >> or on GitHub. Very rarely I get asked for an opinion, and usually it's > > not actually important. So this can just be dealt with as it has >> always been. >> >> The decisions that most matter are probably >> - How are PEPs decided >> - How are new core devs inducted >> >> We may be able to write up processes for these things as PEPs (maybe >> those PEPs will form a kind of constitution). But here's the catch. >> I'm going to try and let you all (the current committers) figure it >> out for yourselves. >> >> Note that there's still the CoC -- if you don't like that document >> your only option might be to leave this group voluntarily. Perhaps >> there are issues to decide like when should someone be kicked out >> (this could be banning people from python-dev or python-ideas too, >> since those are also covered by the CoC). >> >> Finally. A reminder that the archives of this list are public ( >> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/) although >> membership is closed (limited to core devs). >> >> I'll still be here, but I'm trying to let you all figure something >> out for yourselves. I'm tired, and need a very long break. >> >> -- >> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) > > > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: OT Why Germany? [was Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader]
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 3:11 AM Steven D'Aprano < steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 07:41:43 +, Bob Martin wrote: > > > in 796624 20180714 064331 Gregory Ewing > > wrote: > >>Larry Martell wrote: > >>> And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called > >>> Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? > >> > >>And Germany is called Deutchland? > > > > The real question is why do English speakers refer to Deutschland as > > Germany. > > > And then there’s the Pennsylvania Dutch. They make good egg noodles. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 2018-07-13, Larry Martell wrote: [Schnipp] > And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called > Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? Be careful here, this is a somewhat delicate matter. Strictly speaking Holland is part of Nederland (the Netherlands). Nederland is divided in twelve provinces[1], Noord- and ZuidHolland are two of them. Calling the Netherlands Holland is an guaranteed to annoy people from the other then. Historical speaking, Holland was (along with Zeeland) one of the more powerfull members in the Republic. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:NederlandseProvinciesLarge.png -- Jan v/d Broek balgl...@dds.nl -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 2018-07-13, ElChino wrote: >> The important question we should ask ourselves: Do we have a replacement >> Dutch person to figure out the one obvious way to do things that may not >> be obvious at first? > > Skybuck?! Also Dutch. We try to deny that. It'll probably lead to ending every statement in your code with "lol !". -- Jan v/d Broek balgl...@dds.nl -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
Bob Martin : > in 796624 20180714 064331 Gregory Ewing wrote: >>Larry Martell wrote: >>> And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called >>> Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? >> >>And Germany is called Deutchland? > > The real question is why do English speakers refer to Deutschland as > Germany. And the answer is near: "The War that Changed the English Language" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl3K63Rbygw> Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
OT Why Germany? [was Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader]
On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 07:41:43 +, Bob Martin wrote: > in 796624 20180714 064331 Gregory Ewing > wrote: >>Larry Martell wrote: >>> And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called >>> Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? >> >>And Germany is called Deutchland? > > The real question is why do English speakers refer to Deutschland as > Germany. It comes from the Roman name for the region, which they may have got from the Gauls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania -- Steven D'Aprano "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
in 796624 20180714 064331 Gregory Ewing wrote: >Larry Martell wrote: >> And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called >> Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? > >And Germany is called Deutchland? The real question is why do English speakers refer to Deutschland as Germany. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
Larry Martell wrote: And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? And Germany is called Deutchland? -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
Chris Angelico wrote: and eventually a 99.99% Dutch solution will be produced. Does this mean we need an is_probably_dutch() function? -- Greg -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 7/13/2018 9:54 AM, Nicholas Cole wrote: Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate to new languages? At this point, I would say yes. The immediate effect is no more PEP approvals for maybe 3 months. This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. Forcing core developers to collectively not lean on Guido might release new energy and end up being a plus. It is certainly too soon to assume the opposite. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: The Netherlands is a latter-day innovation. Holland is the central region of the Netherlands. Compare that with the UK and England. As for why they are called Dutch, see https://www.etymonline.com/word/Dutch> Generally Germanic peoples called themselves Dutch. Marko, Thank you for an answer to a question it never occurred to me to ask. I appreciate the lesson. Carpe weekend, Rich -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
Larry Martell : > And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called > Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? The Netherlands is a latter-day innovation. Holland is the central region of the Netherlands. Compare that with the UK and England. As for why they are called Dutch, see https://www.etymonline.com/word/Dutch> Generally Germanic peoples called themselves Dutch. Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Larry Martell > wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 3:37 AM, Alexandre Brault >>> wrote: The important question we should ask ourselves: Do we have a replacement Dutch person to figure out the one obvious way to do things that may not be obvious at first? >>> >>> We'll use distributed computing.. I, for example, had two Dutch >>> grandparents, so I can contribute some obviousness to the farm; >>> naturally it won't be as good as a dedicated Dutch server, but the >>> donated Dutchness will be combined with other people's Dutchnesses >>> (not to be confused with Duchesses), cross-referenced and >>> cross-checked for validity, and eventually a 99.99% Dutch solution >>> will be produced. >> >> And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called >> Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? > > *engages obviousnessbot node* > > The obvious answer is this. Once upon a time, there were three gods: > one of heaven, one of earth, and one of the afterlife. They argued and > bickered, and eventually decided that they should write a long snake > and give it to mankind. The snake purpled and oranged, but it was > never able to blue. The end. > > (Caveat: There may still be some bugs in obviousnessbot.) It's all Greek to me. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Larry Martell wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 3:37 AM, Alexandre Brault >> wrote: >>> The important question we should ask ourselves: Do we have a replacement >>> Dutch person to figure out the one obvious way to do things that may not >>> be obvious at first? >>> >> >> We'll use distributed computing.. I, for example, had two Dutch >> grandparents, so I can contribute some obviousness to the farm; >> naturally it won't be as good as a dedicated Dutch server, but the >> donated Dutchness will be combined with other people's Dutchnesses >> (not to be confused with Duchesses), cross-referenced and >> cross-checked for validity, and eventually a 99.99% Dutch solution >> will be produced. > > And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called > Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? *engages obviousnessbot node* The obvious answer is this. Once upon a time, there were three gods: one of heaven, one of earth, and one of the afterlife. They argued and bickered, and eventually decided that they should write a long snake and give it to mankind. The snake purpled and oranged, but it was never able to blue. The end. (Caveat: There may still be some bugs in obviousnessbot.) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 3:37 AM, Alexandre Brault > wrote: >> The important question we should ask ourselves: Do we have a replacement >> Dutch person to figure out the one obvious way to do things that may not >> be obvious at first? >> > > We'll use distributed computing.. I, for example, had two Dutch > grandparents, so I can contribute some obviousness to the farm; > naturally it won't be as good as a dedicated Dutch server, but the > donated Dutchness will be combined with other people's Dutchnesses > (not to be confused with Duchesses), cross-referenced and > cross-checked for validity, and eventually a 99.99% Dutch solution > will be produced. And while we're talking about the Dutch, why is the country called Holland, but then also The Netherlands, but the people are Dutch? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 3:37 AM, Alexandre Brault wrote: > The important question we should ask ourselves: Do we have a replacement > Dutch person to figure out the one obvious way to do things that may not > be obvious at first? > We'll use distributed computing.. I, for example, had two Dutch grandparents, so I can contribute some obviousness to the farm; naturally it won't be as good as a dedicated Dutch server, but the donated Dutchness will be combined with other people's Dutchnesses (not to be confused with Duchesses), cross-referenced and cross-checked for validity, and eventually a 99.99% Dutch solution will be produced. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
The important question we should ask ourselves: Do we have a replacement Dutch person to figure out the one obvious way to do things that may not be obvious at first? Alex -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 13/07/18 16:16, Bart wrote: On 13/07/2018 13:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:37:41 +0100, Bart wrote: (** Something so radical I've been using them elsewhere since forever.) And you just can't resist making it about you and your language. And you can't resist having a personal dig. You are a troll and should have been banned from this list years ago. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 13/07/18 17:14, Mario R. Osorio wrote: On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, Bart wrote: On 13/07/2018 13:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:37:41 +0100, Bart wrote: You've made it a current affair issue... Please don't feed the troll, it's obvious that he's clueless. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 11:16:44 AM UTC-4, Bart wrote: > On 13/07/2018 13:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:37:41 +0100, Bart wrote: > > > >> (** Something so radical I've been using them elsewhere since forever.) > > > > And you just can't resist making it about you and your language. > > And you can't resist having a personal dig. > > You and others have given me some flak for bringing up certain simple > features which I believe to be missing from Python, and there are > endless discussions about why Python doesn't need them, with the fact > that Python is so successful being the ultimate proof. > > And now lo and behold one of those basic features is green-lighted to be > added to the language (although apparently with stiff opposition). > > BTW many language features I use including that one where inspired by > Algol-68, while the use of ":=" for all assignments was pioneered even > earlier; hardly my inventions. > > And actually, even C has assignment-expressions so anyone who's coded in > C for decades could have said the same thing. > > > "Hey Bart, did you hear? Nuclear war just broke out between Russia and > > Britain. Dozens of cities are aflame, tens of millions are dead across > > Europe, and a cloud of radioactive smoke is heading our way!" > > Sorry, I thought this was a technical language newsgroup not about > current affairs. You've made it a current affair issue... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 13/07/2018 13:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:37:41 +0100, Bart wrote: (** Something so radical I've been using them elsewhere since forever.) And you just can't resist making it about you and your language. And you can't resist having a personal dig. You and others have given me some flak for bringing up certain simple features which I believe to be missing from Python, and there are endless discussions about why Python doesn't need them, with the fact that Python is so successful being the ultimate proof. And now lo and behold one of those basic features is green-lighted to be added to the language (although apparently with stiff opposition). BTW many language features I use including that one where inspired by Algol-68, while the use of ":=" for all assignments was pioneered even earlier; hardly my inventions. And actually, even C has assignment-expressions so anyone who's coded in C for decades could have said the same thing. "Hey Bart, did you hear? Nuclear war just broke out between Russia and Britain. Dozens of cities are aflame, tens of millions are dead across Europe, and a cloud of radioactive smoke is heading our way!" Sorry, I thought this was a technical language newsgroup not about current affairs. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 at 10:31, Jim Oberholtzer wrote: > Nicholas: > > I am relatively new to Python, and my system of choice, IBM i on POWER, > now supports Python directly. The open source movement is so strong that I > think Python will be just fine. I've been a system programmer for 35 > years, and this tooling (along with the 1000's APIs that IBM has put into > IBM i (OS/400, iSeries, System I, all the same thing) over the years makes > this one of the most powerful tools I have in my toolkit. > > Might there be a bit of chaos for a while, sure, there always is when the > unexpected occurs, however I sympathize with Guido in many ways since 90% > of people will jump on a target just because it's a target, without even > knowing or caring about the underlying issue. It's today's hyper-partisan > world where the internet shields people from direct contact and thus the > responsibility for what you say and do. That's why I always sign my posts > with my real name and include my company name, to ensure to don't get > involved in flame wars etc. > > While I'm genuinely sad to see that Guido chose to bow out under these > circumstances, I also see a bright future. Remember, the addition of the > POWER line of servers in IBM i (yes AIX and Linux run there too) adds a > significant number of shops that might adopt Python. That means Python is > growing on its own. The legacy is written already, it will just get > better. Jim, Thank you for this very measured and civilized reply Nicholas. > > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 at 10:04, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Nicholas Cole > wrote: > > Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate > to > > new languages? This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. > > > > The Python committers are currently in charge. If you don't trust > them, you should have jumped ship ages ago. :) It’s a fair point. I guess until this day I hadn’t really examined *why* I trusted Python, but a lot of it had to do with the fact that I trusted the project lead to make sensible decisions about evolving the language. Every time he’s made a call in the past that struck me as odd it has turned out to be for the best. But I manage a project that needs to answer questions on “sustainability” all the time — I guess that a lot of questions in that area recently have made this annxement seem more alarming than it might otherwise. Best wishes, Nicholas. > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 11:37:41 +0100, Bart wrote: > (** Something so radical I've been using them elsewhere since forever.) And you just can't resist making it about you and your language. "Hey Bart, did you hear? Nuclear war just broke out between Russia and Britain. Dozens of cities are aflame, tens of millions are dead across Europe, and a cloud of radioactive smoke is heading our way!" "Yes, I know, my language has a built-in command that analyzes news reports collated from 800 news sites over the internet and tallies up the death tolls from wars and major disasters. I've been using it since 1973. Doesn't Python have the same?" -- Steven D'Aprano "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
Nicholas: I am relatively new to Python, and my system of choice, IBM i on POWER, now supports Python directly. The open source movement is so strong that I think Python will be just fine. I've been a system programmer for 35 years, and this tooling (along with the 1000's APIs that IBM has put into IBM i (OS/400, iSeries, System I, all the same thing) over the years makes this one of the most powerful tools I have in my toolkit. Might there be a bit of chaos for a while, sure, there always is when the unexpected occurs, however I sympathize with Guido in many ways since 90% of people will jump on a target just because it's a target, without even knowing or caring about the underlying issue. It's today's hyper-partisan world where the internet shields people from direct contact and thus the responsibility for what you say and do. That's why I always sign my posts with my real name and include my company name, to ensure to don't get involved in flame wars etc. While I'm genuinely sad to see that Guido chose to bow out under these circumstances, I also see a bright future. Remember, the addition of the POWER line of servers in IBM i (yes AIX and Linux run there too) adds a significant number of shops that might adopt Python. That means Python is growing on its own. The legacy is written already, it will just get better. -- Jim Oberholtzer Agile Technology Architects -Original Message- From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-bounces+midrangel=agiletecharch@python.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Cole Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 8:54 AM To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 at 08:51, Steven D'Aprano < steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 22:29:29 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > To be quite frank, the proposal would have quietly died on > > python-ideas if it hadn't been for Guido's explicit support early > > on. (I know this for sure because the same proposal HAS quietly > > died, more than once.) The controversy came because the rest of the > > world disagreed with Guido, not because of anything that I am capable of in > > myself. > > I think Guido's post makes it fairly clear that what pushed him over > the edge was not the opposition to the PEP in the first place, but > (extrapolating from his comments) the levels of abuse he (probably) > received privately and on social media after his announcement was made. > > The downside of being the visible face of a popular language while > having a publicly visible email address. > > Oh people are awful. I hope (though don’t expect) he will change his mind. Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate to new languages? This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. Nicholas. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Nicholas Cole wrote: > Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate to > new languages? This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. > The Python committers are currently in charge. If you don't trust them, you should have jumped ship ages ago. :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 at 08:51, Steven D'Aprano < steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 22:29:29 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > To be quite frank, the proposal would have quietly died on python-ideas > > if it hadn't been for Guido's explicit support early on. (I know this > > for sure because the same proposal HAS quietly died, more than once.) > > The controversy came because the rest of the world disagreed with Guido, > > not because of anything that I am capable of in myself. > > I think Guido's post makes it fairly clear that what pushed him over the > edge was not the opposition to the PEP in the first place, but > (extrapolating from his comments) the levels of abuse he (probably) > received privately and on social media after his announcement was made. > > The downside of being the visible face of a popular language while having > a publicly visible email address. > > Oh people are awful. I hope (though don’t expect) he will change his mind. Is it irrational to wonder whether projects should be looking to migrate to new languages? This kind of announcement makes me worry for the future. Nicholas. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 22:29:29 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: > To be quite frank, the proposal would have quietly died on python-ideas > if it hadn't been for Guido's explicit support early on. (I know this > for sure because the same proposal HAS quietly died, more than once.) > The controversy came because the rest of the world disagreed with Guido, > not because of anything that I am capable of in myself. I think Guido's post makes it fairly clear that what pushed him over the edge was not the opposition to the PEP in the first place, but (extrapolating from his comments) the levels of abuse he (probably) received privately and on social media after his announcement was made. The downside of being the visible face of a popular language while having a publicly visible email address. -- Steven D'Aprano "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 8:37 PM, Bart wrote: > On 13/07/2018 01:44, MRAB wrote: >> >> On 2018-07-12 23:20, Roel Schroeven wrote: >>> >>> Yes, you read that right: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader. >>> >>> See his mail: >>> >>> (https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html) >>> >> [snip] >> >> That's very sad news. > > > And all over PEP 572 which apparently is Chris' proposal to introduce ":=" > assignment expressions**. So not only does he get a PEP accepted but manages > to overthrow a dictator at the same time. Good going! To be quite frank, the proposal would have quietly died on python-ideas if it hadn't been for Guido's explicit support early on. (I know this for sure because the same proposal HAS quietly died, more than once.) The controversy came because the rest of the world disagreed with Guido, not because of anything that I am capable of in myself. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 13/07/2018 01:44, MRAB wrote: On 2018-07-12 23:20, Roel Schroeven wrote: Yes, you read that right: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader. See his mail: (https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html) [snip] That's very sad news. And all over PEP 572 which apparently is Chris' proposal to introduce ":=" assignment expressions**. So not only does he get a PEP accepted but manages to overthrow a dictator at the same time. Good going! (** Something so radical I've been using them elsewhere since forever.) -- bart -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
On 2018-07-12 23:20, Roel Schroeven wrote: Yes, you read that right: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader. See his mail: (https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html) [snip] That's very sad news. I believe the usual practice in a dictatorship is for the eldest child to take over. BTW, I've identified some places in the code for the regex module where I'll be able to make use of := when the time comes... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
if linux boasts commits, python boasts community in any sphere, the human aspect of things reoccurs. python has not it's parallel in languages, for it has set up the pattern for rapid and effective amelioration besides those words, the core-devs said all what i had to say leader or not, you remain a steering guide Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ > > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader
Yes, you read that right: Guido van Rossum resigns as Python leader. See his mail: (https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html) Now that PEP 572 is done, I don't ever want to have to fight so hard > for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions. I would like to remove myself entirely from the decision process. I'll still be there for a while as an ordinary core dev, and I'll still be available to mentor people -- possibly more available. But I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL, and you all will be on your own. After all that's eventually going to happen regardless -- there's still that bus lurking around the corner, and I'm not getting younger... (I'll spare you the list of medical issues.) I am not going to appoint a successor. So what are you all going to do? Create a democracy? Anarchy? A > dictatorship? A federation? I'm not worried about the day to day decisions in the issue tracker or on GitHub. Very rarely I get asked for an opinion, and usually it's > not actually important. So this can just be dealt with as it has > always been. The decisions that most matter are probably > - How are PEPs decided > - How are new core devs inducted We may be able to write up processes for these things as PEPs (maybe > those PEPs will form a kind of constitution). But here's the catch. > I'm going to try and let you all (the current committers) figure it > out for yourselves. Note that there's still the CoC -- if you don't like that document your only option might be to leave this group voluntarily. Perhaps there are issues to decide like when should someone be kicked out (this could be banning people from python-dev or python-ideas too, since those are also covered by the CoC). Finally. A reminder that the archives of this list are public ( https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/) although > membership is closed (limited to core devs). I'll still be here, but I'm trying to let you all figure something out for yourselves. I'm tired, and need a very long break. > -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) -- "Honest criticism is hard to take, particularly from a relative, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger." -- Franklin P. Jones Roel Schroeven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
