Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ > > Not everyone agrees that this is a thing: > > http://www.skorks.com/2010/10/99-out-of-100-programmers-cant-program-i-call-bullshit/ > > I'm inclined to accept that maybe 99 out of 100 *applications* for > programming jobs are from people who can't program, but I don't think that > 99 out of 100 *programmers* can't program. It's probably more like 65, > maybe 70 out of 100, tops. I was talking only about *applications* at that point. From the point of view of an applicant, the massive noise of incompetent people trying to get the job means it's really hard to get heard, especially since a lot of the incompetents can make their resumes look great. [1] So getting a job you apply for based on your own skill is... not easy. At least, I'm fairly sure it's not easy. All I know is that it's never happened to me. [1] They probably learned from all the other department heads. http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-02-20/ ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
Chris Angelico wrote: > There are blog posts out there about how large proportions of > applicants can't even write simple code on command... and I've taken > the questions and shown them to my siblings (who protest that they're > definitely not programmers), proving that a basic smattering of > mathematical nous puts you above people who are trying to earn money > from coding. > > It's like a carpenter, looking for a skilled assistant, and getting > people who don't know which end of a saw to hold. http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ Not everyone agrees that this is a thing: http://www.skorks.com/2010/10/99-out-of-100-programmers-cant-program-i-call-bullshit/ I'm inclined to accept that maybe 99 out of 100 *applications* for programming jobs are from people who can't program, but I don't think that 99 out of 100 *programmers* can't program. It's probably more like 65, maybe 70 out of 100, tops. Ha ha only serious. More here: http://www.protocolostomy.com/2010/03/15/programmers-that-cant-program/ -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
"Clayton Kirkwood" writes: > Although I suspect for a price you could bring all of your > professional programming jobs to somebody here, but I think you > would pay out more than you would make. s/ here/ else/ and your assumption can be falsified -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Clayton Kirkwood wrote: > Chris, you're kidding, right? People get programming jobs without the > knowledge? How do they keep them? Don't hiring people look at code examples, > or previous employment? Ask relevant questions? Oh, I didn't say they *keep* the jobs, nor necessarily even get them! (Although that can happen too - check out http://thedailywtf.com/ and some of the stories of what former employees' code can look like.) I'm talking about them applying, and then the potential employers have to weed through the utter incompetents to find the few who actually know what they're talking about. If the employer is himself/herself a programmer, this is a huge waste of a skilled person's time; if not, the short-listing of applicants will be highly flawed. Hence the problem: it's so hard to pick the right applicants that the right applicants end up not being picked - and so jobs remain unfilled (as I can attest to - the same job postings keep coming up in my RSS feeds), or incompetents get jobs and then get moved on. Sure, you could figure out whether one person is worth hiring or not. But when you have two hundred applications, can you afford to talk to every single one of them? I doubt it. And that's the problem. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
>-Original Message- >From: Python-list [mailto:python-list- >bounces+crk=godblessthe...@python.org] On Behalf Of Chris Angelico >Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 12:36 AM >Cc: python-list@python.org >Subject: Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What >does the print function do? > >On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Clayton Kirkwood >wrote: >> Uh, how are you going to maintain a programming job if you don't know >> how to program? I don't want to act but I know Brad Pitt makes lots of >> money doing it, so I want to be Brad Pitt. Not! Not going to happen. >> Although I suspect for a price you could bring all of your >> professional programming jobs to somebody here, but I think you would >pay out more than you would make. >> > >I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it does happen. I've been >writing code for over two decades, and trying to earn a living at it for >one and a bit, and in all that time, I have *never even once* found a >job by applying in the classic way and sending in a resume. >There are blog posts out there about how large proportions of applicants >can't even write simple code on command... and I've taken the questions >and shown them to my siblings (who protest that they're definitely not >programmers), proving that a basic smattering of mathematical nous puts >you above people who are trying to earn money from coding. > >It's like a carpenter, looking for a skilled assistant, and getting >people who don't know which end of a saw to hold. > >It's like a prospective accountant not knowing the words "credit" and >"debit". > >It's like someone trying to rule a country just on the basis of looking >good on television... okay, so maybe there's one other "industry" where >the incompetent have a shot at it. > >But fortunately, it's not everyone. There are the "bad eggs" who waste >everyone's time, but there are plenty of truly competent people too. >It's just a matter of figuring out which are the "will-be-competent" >and which are the "totally lazy and not going anywhere", and there's not >always a lot to distinguish them by. > >ChrisA Chris, you're kidding, right? People get programming jobs without the knowledge? How do they keep them? Don't hiring people look at code examples, or previous employment? Ask relevant questions? My wife works for the county district attorney's office, and she tells me a lot about the incompetence of her co-workers and how they just kind of don't do their job, the petty personalities. My daughter works for AAA and tells how little co-workers know and are not willing to learn anything, but expect raises, etc. It's really hard for me to believe. I've worked in professional environs like Intel and Lockheed. You didn't keep a job long if you screwed around, and except for one person, everyone worked hard and earned their living, learning as much as they could, and generally got along. Some were great work groups that were incredibly rewarding and enjoyable. I have trouble believing the work ethics and behavior my family tells me about. Totally foreign to me. Clayton >-- >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:36:54 +, Denis McMahon wrote: > On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:56:18 -0800, sohcahtoa82 wrote: > >> ... I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. > > I hear that pretty boy male escorts can make even more money than > software engineers. > > They also don't need to learn how to program, which is something > software engineers do need to do, so it sounds as if you'd be better off > signing up with an escort agency. in both cases you start at the bottom, as a rent boy you stay there -- He thinks by infection, catching an opinion like a cold. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Clayton Kirkwood wrote: > Uh, how are you going to maintain a programming job if you don't know how to > program? I don't want to act but I know Brad Pitt makes lots of money doing > it, so I want to be Brad Pitt. Not! Not going to happen. Although I suspect > for a price you could bring all of your professional programming jobs to > somebody here, but I think you would pay out more than you would make. > I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it does happen. I've been writing code for over two decades, and trying to earn a living at it for one and a bit, and in all that time, I have *never even once* found a job by applying in the classic way and sending in a resume. There are blog posts out there about how large proportions of applicants can't even write simple code on command... and I've taken the questions and shown them to my siblings (who protest that they're definitely not programmers), proving that a basic smattering of mathematical nous puts you above people who are trying to earn money from coding. It's like a carpenter, looking for a skilled assistant, and getting people who don't know which end of a saw to hold. It's like a prospective accountant not knowing the words "credit" and "debit". It's like someone trying to rule a country just on the basis of looking good on television... okay, so maybe there's one other "industry" where the incompetent have a shot at it. But fortunately, it's not everyone. There are the "bad eggs" who waste everyone's time, but there are plenty of truly competent people too. It's just a matter of figuring out which are the "will-be-competent" and which are the "totally lazy and not going anywhere", and there's not always a lot to distinguish them by. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
>-Original Message- >From: Python-list [mailto:python-list- >bounces+crk=godblessthe...@python.org] On Behalf Of Grant Edwards >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 1:01 PM >To: python-list@python.org >Subject: Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What >does the print function do? > >On 2014-11-10, sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me >> hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not >> actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software >> engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. > >That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages. Uh, how are you going to maintain a programming job if you don't know how to program? I don't want to act but I know Brad Pitt makes lots of money doing it, so I want to be Brad Pitt. Not! Not going to happen. Although I suspect for a price you could bring all of your professional programming jobs to somebody here, but I think you would pay out more than you would make. Clayton > >-- >Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I just forgot my >whole > at philosophy of life!!! > gmail.com >-- >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On 11/10/14 at 09:00pm, Grant Edwards wrote: > That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages. That, on the other hand, is a pretty decent bit of trolling. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On 2014-11-10 20:16, Ethan Furman wrote: On 11/10/2014 11:59 AM, Larry Martell wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Roy Smith wrote: In article , sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. This post is a sine of the times. Don't go off on a tangent. Please! We don't need all this hyperbole! ... cos it's off-topic. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM, wrote: > On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:01:05 PM UTC-8, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2014-11-10, sohcahtoa82 wrote: >> >> > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me >> > hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not >> > actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software >> > engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. >> >> That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages. >> > > Either you and I have a different definition of what a troll is, or your > ability to detect parody and recognize a joke is a bit off. The former, probably. It may have been amusing, but it was nonetheless an off-topic post seeking to get a reaction, i.e. a troll. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Monday, November 10, 2014 1:01:05 PM UTC-8, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2014-11-10, sohcahtoa82 wrote: > > > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me > > hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not > > actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software > > engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. > > That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages. > Either you and I have a different definition of what a troll is, or your ability to detect parody and recognize a joke is a bit off. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:56:18 -0800, sohcahtoa82 wrote: > ... I know software engineers > make lots of money so I want to be one. I hear that pretty boy male escorts can make even more money than software engineers. They also don't need to learn how to program, which is something software engineers do need to do, so it sounds as if you'd be better off signing up with an escort agency. -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On 2014-11-10, sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me > hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not > actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software > engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. That's the saddest troll I've seen in ages. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! I just forgot my whole at philosophy of life!!! gmail.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On 11/10/2014 11:59 AM, Larry Martell wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Roy Smith wrote: In article , sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. This post is a sine of the times. Don't go off on a tangent. Please! We don't need all this hyperbole! -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On 10/11/2014 19:24, Peter Otten wrote: sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. I'm sorry I have to decline your kind offer unless you also let me do your dishes and walk your dog. Quote Of The Day/Week/Month/Year/Decade/Millenium* * please delete whichever you feel is appropriate -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Roy Smith wrote: > In article , > sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, just >> give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually interested >> in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money >> so I want to be one. > > This post is a sine of the times. Don't go off on a tangent. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
In article , sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, just > give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually interested > in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money > so I want to be one. This post is a sine of the times. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: > Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, > just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually > interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make > lots of money so I want to be one. I'm sorry I have to decline your kind offer unless you also let me do your dishes and walk your dog. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I don't read docs and don't know how to use Google. What does the print function do?
Please help me this assignment is due in an hour. Don't give me hints, just give me the answer because I only want a grade. I'm not actually interested in learning how to program, but I know software engineers make lots of money so I want to be one. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
