Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
On 15 Mar 2006 15:04:19 -0800 "Derek Basch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > class PeptideEvaluator: > > def evaluate(self, peptide): > [...] > > So, you instantiate a class called "PeptideEvaluator" and > pass in each string to its "evaluate" method. Now you have > to repeatedly pass the peptide and peptide_name to each > function. According to what everyone has said declaring > them as class variables is bad because they are not > related to the state of the "PeptideEvaluator". How can I > avoid having to pass the same parameters all over a class? > I can';t quite seem to wrap my head around this one. "PeptideEvaluator" suggests it's meant to act on some "data" object and produce a "result" object (you're reinventing functions, using object-oriented machinery?). A more usual OOP approach is to make an object "Peptide" which models the peptide, then put the methods on it. When you instantiate "Peptide" you tell it what its sequence is, and the methods provide your analysis -- you ask the object itself to give you the results. Then, of course, the peptide sequence *IS* a fundamental property of the object. If you have to separate this functionality into a separate object, you should immediately be asking yourself "why"? Is there a compelling reason you need *two* objects that have to communicate over an interface when one will do? (Sometimes there are). -- Terry Hancock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
Derek Basch wrote: > So, if I am understanding what everyone is saying here. I should do my > best to distinguish between values that are part of the "state" of an > object and values that are more disposable and can change for each > computation of a value. So if I create an instance of a "wallet" class > and the color of the wallet is "red". The "red" value would be ideal as > a class variable as it is tied to the state of that wallet instance. Nope. Technically that would be an *instance* variable - each wallet instance can have a different colour. [This may be what you mean in whcih case please regard this as correcting your language, not your thinking. Class variables are available, and are normally single values share among all instances of a class.]. > However, if the wallet class contains a function to compute the tax on > a purchased item, the purchase price would be a good example of a > passed parameter value. Am I on the right track? > Yes, that would be correct. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
On 15 Mar 2006 15:04:19 -0800, Derek Basch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One more question everybody. Say you have a class that performs a > series of evaluations on several strings of peptides. Errr..., no? A class does not perform some operations. A class is a template for objects. What are your objects? If you had a class Peptide for example (I'm guessing here; I'm not exactly fluent in this domain), I would have understood. But what you're describing here is not a class; it's just a set of functions. > Heres the class: > > class PeptideEvaluator: > > def evaluate(self, peptide): > peptide_name = peptide + "Rules!" > result1 = self.test1(peptide, peptide_name) > result2 = self.test2(peptide, peptide_name) > result3 = self.test3(peptide, peptide_name) > > def test1(self, peptide, peptide_name): > f = open(peptide_name + ".txt", "w") > f.write(peptide) > f.close() > > def test2(self, peptide, peptide_name): > f = open(peptide_name + ".txt", "w") > f.write(peptide) > f.close() > > def test3(self, peptide, peptide_name): > f = open(peptide_name + ".txt", "w") > f.write(peptide) > f.close() > > So, you instantiate a class called "PeptideEvaluator" and pass in each > string to its "evaluate" method. Now you have to repeatedly pass the > peptide and peptide_name to each function. According to what everyone > has said declaring them as class variables is bad because they are not > related to the state of the "PeptideEvaluator". How can I avoid having > to pass the same parameters all over a class? I can';t quite seem to > wrap my head around this one. QED: this "class" has no need at all for attributes, and does not even have a constructor. This is usually a strong signal that what you're doing is wrong. Just turn this class into a module containing functions. Or put these methods into another class (the Peptide class may be a good candidate if you have one; "evaluating" a peptide seems to be an operation that you do on peptides). HTH -- python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in 'U(17zX(%,5.zmz5(17;8(%,5.Z65\'*9--56l7+-'])" -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
"Derek Basch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > So, if I am understanding what everyone is saying here. I should do my > best to distinguish between values that are part of the "state" of an > object and values that are more disposable and can change for each > computation of a value. So if I create an instance of a "wallet" class > and the color of the wallet is "red". The "red" value would be ideal as > a class variable as it is tied to the state of that wallet instance. > However, if the wallet class contains a function to compute the tax on > a purchased item, the purchase price would be a good example of a > passed parameter value. Am I on the right track? yes -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
One more question everybody. Say you have a class that performs a series of evaluations on several strings of peptides. Let's say for the sake of argument: DMCDIYLLY FQPQNGQFI RHPENPNLL Heres the class: class PeptideEvaluator: def evaluate(self, peptide): peptide_name = peptide + "Rules!" result1 = self.test1(peptide, peptide_name) result2 = self.test2(peptide, peptide_name) result3 = self.test3(peptide, peptide_name) def test1(self, peptide, peptide_name): f = open(peptide_name + ".txt", "w") f.write(peptide) f.close() def test2(self, peptide, peptide_name): f = open(peptide_name + ".txt", "w") f.write(peptide) f.close() def test3(self, peptide, peptide_name): f = open(peptide_name + ".txt", "w") f.write(peptide) f.close() So, you instantiate a class called "PeptideEvaluator" and pass in each string to its "evaluate" method. Now you have to repeatedly pass the peptide and peptide_name to each function. According to what everyone has said declaring them as class variables is bad because they are not related to the state of the "PeptideEvaluator". How can I avoid having to pass the same parameters all over a class? I can';t quite seem to wrap my head around this one. Thanks again everyone, Derek Basch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
So, if I am understanding what everyone is saying here. I should do my best to distinguish between values that are part of the "state" of an object and values that are more disposable and can change for each computation of a value. So if I create an instance of a "wallet" class and the color of the wallet is "red". The "red" value would be ideal as a class variable as it is tied to the state of that wallet instance. However, if the wallet class contains a function to compute the tax on a purchased item, the purchase price would be a good example of a passed parameter value. Am I on the right track? Thanks, Derek Basch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
Wow! Thanks everyone. Such coherent and philisophical answers. I will read them all over on a lazy sunday as this type ethereal stuff hurts my head after about 30 seconds. All the gurus on the python list are so friggin' smart. This should improve my coding after I digest it all. Thanks Again! Derek Basch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
Derek Basch wrote:
> This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in
> front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method
s/class method/method/
In Python, a "class method" is a method working on the class itself (not
on a given instance).
> or should I pass around variable between the methods?
One of the first rules I learned (from experience...) was to restrict as
much as possible the scope of a variable. It usually makes code more
readable, more robust, and more modular. In fact, I sometime even pass
attributes of an object as args to a method of the same object, and/or
assign values returned from a method of an object to attributes of the
same object. This is more explicit than relying on side-effects.
So (as pointed by almost everyone in this thread...) the best criteria
here is : is this variable part of the state of an object, or is it just
a value used for a given computation ?
Note that if you find yourself passing the same huge set of variables
from method to method for a given computation, this may calls for a
refactoring... Python objects can be callable (ie function-like), so a
complex computation with lot of shared state (independant from the rest
of the object) may be best implemented as a separate temporary callable
object - which can take the calling object as a parameter if it needs to
access other attributes from it.
My 2 cents...
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])"
--
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Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
Derek Basch wrote: > This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in > front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method > or should I pass around variable between the methods? Try to distinguish the state of the object from the parameters to methods. An object should always have a consistent state. Say you call a method, and that method calls a bunch of other methods. At almost any point during those method calls execution can leak out to other bits of code (e.g. you might think you are adding two values, but perhaps they have a user defined addition operator) and that other code might just call methods on the same object. This might not happen much in practice, but I think that if you imagine all method calls as potentially happening in parallel it avoids a lot of problems. So, for example, if you had a method which returned a formatted representation of something, and which took a precision as a parameter, you shouldn't be saving the precision in the object: it isn't part of the state, and if you save it as such one day you might find it changes under your feet mid call. A lot of objects benefit from being treated as immutable: i.e. initialise them on creation, but never modify the attributes after creation. This has the great benefit that you never need to worry about whether or not to copy an object: you always just keep using the same object until an attribute needs to change and then you just create a new one. Obviously this only works for lightweight objects, but that should be most of them. Passing one or two parameters around a host of methods is fine: if you are passing more then it probably indicates you need to invent another object to encapsulate the state associated with the method call. It is also likely that it means you then want to move some of the code logic into the new object. In other words, instead of: obj.meth1(a, b, c, d) calls obj.meth2(a, b, c, d) calls obj.meth3, ... (and perhaps meth2 only needs a, b and c so it can pass them on), you want some helper object constructed with a, b, c & d and parts of the original methods then get factored into methods on the help objects. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
Derek Basch wrote:
> This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in
> front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method
> or should I pass around variable between the methods?
>
> FlamewarNOW!
>
> jk, I really do want other opinions.
>
> Thanks,
> Derek
>
I tend to think in terms of states. If a quantity/attribute is important
for the state of an object, then it should be an instance variable. If
it can be calculated from the state, then it can be made a read-only
property, etc. If it is irrelevant to the state of an object, it
probably should belong to another object or should be a global.
Here is an example from chemistry:
densities = {'H2O' : 1.0, 'Hg' : 13.6}
class CupOfLiquid(object):
def __init__(self, liquid, volume):
self.liquid = liquid
self.volume = volume
def spill(self, spill_vol):
newvol = self.volume - spill_vol
if newvol < 0:
raise SpillError, "Can't spill that much!"
self.volume = newvol
def get_mass(self):
return densities[self.liquid] * self.volume
mass = property(get_mass)
Notice that it would be quite awkward to remember the volume state of a
CupOfLiquid instance between method calls. One would need a global to do
this, which defeats the purpose of using classes (i.e. object
orientation). Notice also that the value of densities is independent of
the state of any CupOfLiquid instance, so it is a global.
As an exercise, try threading this object for evaporation. Hint, you
might need a "lid_closed" attribute.
James
--
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Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
On 1 Mar 2006 11:32:02 -0800 "Derek Basch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a > "self" in front of any variable that will be used by more > than one class method or should I pass around variable > between the methods? My first reaction was that they should always be object properties -- that passing values between methods of the same object is always a bad idea. But on further reflection, I'm not sure that's really the rule I use, so here's a better attempt: Are the values in question properties of the object? If I make two calls to the object from unrelated processes, should those values be the same, or different for each caller? If they need to be different for each caller, then you might need to pass them around. If however, they are the same because it's the same object, then they ought to be expressed as properties of the object. It's funny, I've never actually had any doubts about which to use in practice, it always seems obvious, so it's hard to recall what my actual thought process is on the subject. -- Terry Hancock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:32:02 -0800, Derek Basch wrote: > This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in > front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method > or should I pass around variable between the methods? That depends on whether the variable is conceptually an attribute of the instance or a parameter. Attributes of the instance should be made instance attributes by (as you put it) slapping a "self" in front of it. Parameters of the methods should be passed around as arguments to the methods. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Derek Basch wrote: > This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in > front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method > or should I pass around variable between the methods? As a general rule, I only turn a parameter into an instance variable when it would otherwise be a parameter of all (or nearly all) methods. Though this is perhaps an overly mechanical perspective, I like to think of instance variables as implicit parameters to every method. It helps me keep scope under control and encourages better cohesion. -- .:[ dave benjamin -( ramen/sp00 )- http://spoomusic.com/ ]:. "one man's constant is another man's variable" - alan perlis -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
On 1 Mar 2006 11:32:02 -0800, Derek Basch wrote: > This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in > front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method > or should I pass around variable between the methods? I think there is no clear "general" answer. A criterion could be that instance variables should be those who define the state of the object, that define its "meaning". About the others to me it's a matter of taste. -- USB Priests for only 10$ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is it better to use class variables or pass parameters?
This one has always bugged me. Is it better to just slap a "self" in front of any variable that will be used by more than one class method or should I pass around variable between the methods? FlamewarNOW! jk, I really do want other opinions. Thanks, Derek -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
