Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
I am also shocked by Fredrick Lundh's impoliteness and think he makes this group less friendly than I expected when I read this on http://www.python.org/community/lists/: Rudeness and personal attacks, even in reaction to blatant flamebait, are strongly frowned upon. People may strongly disagree on an issue, but usually discussion remains civil This should apply to anyone, from the newbie to the most valuable contributor to Python Regards, Pierre -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
metaperl wrote: I was shocked to see the personal insults hurled in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b I have been very pleased with Python developers regardless of skill levels in both the IRC channel as well as here - no hot attitudes. No holier than thou put ons. I was just sinking into the comradery and cooperative nature of this new powerful community when I saw that thread. Well, I hope that the fact that 99% of the Python community, from Guido von Rossum on down continues to exemplify how a language can be good and the people can be friendly and that the other 1% get inspired by their positivity and switch as well... I've reviewed a little the thread. I've not evaluated the possible use-cases of cgi.escape. The question is always: who start's the use of insults? I just noticed one thing: The OP wrote (refering to an implementationd detail, which btw. has possible resulted after many days of thought/trials in context of several use-cases): This seems to me to be dumb http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b which could be interpreted as: the implementor seems to be dumb So, personally I think the implementor was free to reply bla bla bla, you idiot. This was not an insult. Just a gentle gesture (using similar wording as the OP). . -- http://lazaridis.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve makes a good point. Fredrik is one of the most important contributors of Python code, tools, etc and as far as I am concerned, that is so important that it gives him the right to be cranky from tiem to time. Since February last year I've had the opportunity to write most of my code in Python, in a very cool company with lots of bright people. When I asked why they started to use Python here, it turned out that a course held by a certain Fredrik Lundh was something of a turning point... It seems that made them see the light. I'm very thankful for that! (As I understood it, the reason for the Python course, was actually that some third party product used Python. I'm pretty sure we don't use that product any longer, but we certainly kept Python.) Today, we actually hold Python courses ourselves, for customers from all over the globe (mainly big airlines). In my opinion, the most important aspect of contributors to a forum like c.l.py is signal/noise ratio. I much prefer competent but rude remarks to friendly ignorance which just wastes my time. Calling someone stupid might not be the most pedagogic or diplomatic approach when an ignorant person fails to realize his limitations, but it's understandable. Being so stupid is also understandable. It's easy for reasonably smart people to find (perceived) flaws in the reasonings of others, but with age I've learned that I can usually learn a lot from others even if I feel that I can crush their arguments. There is usually something more behind their resistance to my ideas, and if I manage to figure out what the real problem is, I can often avoid getting into trouble... The best discussions are the ones that make me change my mind about something. Then I've grown. That's difficult if I let my ego be in charge. I guess you either need to be involved some fairly big, real world development project where APIs are used by many people outside the project, or alternatively read (and understand) any serious book on software engineering, to really realize that changing public APIs *is* a major issue. If you use Python more as a toy, and just write snippets, it's difficult to imagine the cost of small API changes for the big organizations who use the same APIs. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
metaperl wrote: I was shocked to see the personal insults hurled in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b Ahhh, no need to overreact, that's just the usual Friday night steel cage match: Fredrik vs Poster Who is Convinced That The World Should Urgently Change to Fit His Views If I could bet on the outcome I'd rich by now, in lieu of that I just sit back and enjoy the show. i. ps. as for the title of this post, it is ironic that you are insulting another community while asking for no insults -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
I was shocked to see the personal insults hurled in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b I have been very pleased with Python developers regardless of skill levels in both the IRC channel as well as here - no hot attitudes. No holier than thou put ons. I was just sinking into the comradery and cooperative nature of this new powerful community when I saw that thread. Well, I hope that the fact that 99% of the Python community, from Guido von Rossum on down continues to exemplify how a language can be good and the people can be friendly and that the other 1% get inspired by their positivity and switch as well... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
metaperl wrote: I was shocked to see the personal insults hurled in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b I see that this is a Fredrik Lundh thread. I've felt the same way before, but Fredrik has been around a long time[1] and if you listen through the sometimes sharp words, he really has a lot of intelligent things to say. All I can advise is that if you feel like Fredrik is getting under your skin, take a deep breath and read a different thread for a while. I promise you, it's worth it! STeVe [1] He's the author of Python's unicode support and Python 2.5's elementtree module. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
Steven Bethard wrote: metaperl wrote: I was shocked to see the personal insults hurled in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b I see that this is a Fredrik Lundh thread. I've felt the same way before, but Fredrik has been around a long time[1] and if you listen through the sometimes sharp words, he really has a lot of intelligent things to say. All I can advise is that if you feel like Fredrik is getting under your skin, take a deep breath and read a different thread for a while. I promise you, it's worth it! Yup, if the effbot says you are wrong it would be sensible to at least consider the possibility. But nobody can *force* you to read what it says. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
Steven Bethard wrote: metaperl wrote: I was shocked to see the personal insults hurled in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d0758cb9545cad4b I see that this is a Fredrik Lundh thread. I've felt the same way before, but Fredrik has been around a long time[1] and if you listen [snip] [1] He's the author of Python's unicode support and Python 2.5's elementtree module. and a very serious upgrade of the re kit plus PIL plus a book and BTW: insult? OP, look at the TV news; if insult's the worst that happens to you, burn some joss and be very grateful :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
Metaperl, Steve makes a good point. Fredrik is one of the most important contributors of Python code, tools, etc and as far as I am concerned, that is so important that it gives him the right to be cranky from tiem to time. If somebody like me were to get cranky and negative, on the other hand, that would be unacceptable. Actual production of useful code is of paramount importance ;-)) Ron Stephens -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
On 25 Sep 2006 07:35:45 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Metaperl, Steve makes a good point. Fredrik is one of the most important contributors of Python code, tools, etc and as far as I am concerned, that is so important that it gives him the right to be cranky from tiem to time. If somebody like me were to get cranky and negative, on the other hand, that would be unacceptable. Actual production of useful code is of paramount importance ;-)) Ron Stephens I just checked google groups and my first post to this newsgroup was back in April of 98. I'd been lurking for likely a year prior to that. That little bit of introduction is simply to say something I'm sure Fredrik will hate to hear He's mellowed over the years. Steve is 100% correct, if Fredrik says your wrong (even if he says it not very nicely) You ought to stop and reconsider your opinion. -- Stand Fast, tjg. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Leave the putdowns in the Perl community, the Python world does not need them
Steven Bethard wrote: [1] He's the author of Python's unicode support and Python 2.5's elementtree module. Is that all? ;) He also implemented the partition string method, which for some reason I think is the coolest thing since sliced lists. :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
