RE: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
Ok. Thanks! bugs.python.org/issue18031 Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 23:26:58 -0400 From: n...@nedbatchelder.com To: carlosnepomuc...@outlook.com CC: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language On 5/21/2013 10:26 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote: I was looking for something else and just found what I think is the place where I was first exposed to the myth[1]: Since str.format() is quite new, a lot of Python code still uses the % operator. However, because this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language, str.format() should generally be used. Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? [1] http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html#old-string-formatting That tutorial is out of date. %-formatting isn't being removed. --Ned. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? [1] http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html#old-string-formatting That tutorial is out of date. %-formatting isn't being removed. OTOH, PEP 3101 also mentions deprecation, at the very end: ... both systems can co-exist until it comes time to deprecate the older system. I have been operating under the assumption since the days of that PEP that %-style formatting would eventually disappear, dreading the day when I'd have to learn the str.format language. I apologize for (inadvertently) spreading FUD. It does seem like the documentation should be updated in a few places. If the decision has been made to not remove the older system, it might be worthwhile to mention that somewhere. Clearly the tutorial and PEP 3101 should be updated. Skip -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
On Tue, 21 May 2013 23:26:58 -0400, Ned Batchelder wrote: On 5/21/2013 10:26 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote: Since str.format() is quite new, a lot of Python code still uses the % operator. However, because this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language, str.format() should generally be used. Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? That tutorial is out of date. %-formatting isn't being removed. Indeed, removing %-formatting could break a substantial amount of live code, with potentially significant maintenance effort in the user community simply to make existing code work with the new interpreter. The effect of this on corporations using python code translates into business risk, and the next step is we can avoid the business risk by migrating our python scripts to some other language. For the designers and maintainers of any language to arbitrarily[1] (in the eyes of the user base) remove a widely used feature that would have a major effect on the user base could kill off a language, simply because many users will not want to take the risk of it happening again, even if they can easily automate the upgrade from removed obsolete language feature to new shiny language feature. [1] Some portion of the user base will always consider any such change that causes them headaches and additional effort as having been arbitrary, no matter how well the language designers and maintainers explain the need to break the old scripts. -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
On 5/22/2013 10:24 AM, Denis McMahon wrote: Indeed, removing %-formatting could break a substantial amount of live code, with potentially significant maintenance effort in the user While I would like to see % formatting go away everntually*, other developers would not. In any case, I agree that it should not disappear until there is a foolproof conversion tool, probably custom written. I am working on other things. * perhaps in 10 years?, when all 2.x code that is going to be converted has been converted -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
On May 22, 6:35 am, Skip Montanaro s...@pobox.com wrote: Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? [1] http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html#old-string-formatting That tutorial is out of date. %-formatting isn't being removed. OTOH, PEP 3101 also mentions deprecation, at the very end: ... both systems can co-exist until it comes time to deprecate the older system. I have been operating under the assumption since the days of that PEP that %-style formatting would eventually disappear, dreading the day when I'd have to learn the str.format language. I apologize for (inadvertently) spreading FUD. It does seem like the documentation should be updated in a few places. If the decision has been made to not remove the older system, it might be worthwhile to mention that somewhere. Clearly the tutorial and PEP 3101 should be updated. Skip I was of the impression that deprecating % was still planned for Py4k, whenever that is. I personally believe that eliminating % formatting would reduce bugs and generally make code clearer, but I realize that breaking backward compatibility has a high price. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
I was looking for something else and just found what I think is the place where I was first exposed to the myth[1]: Since str.format() is quite new, a lot of Python code still uses the % operator. However, because this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language, str.format() should generally be used. Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? [1] http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html#old-string-formatting -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
On 05/21/2013 07:26 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote: I was looking for something else and just found what I think is the place where I was first exposed to the myth[1]: Since str.format() is quite new, a lot of Python code still uses the % operator. However, because this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language, str.format() should generally be used. Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? It was exuberant wishful thinking. ;) While .format() does have its uses, % is in wide-spread use even among the core-devs. It's not going away any time soon. -- ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Myth Busters: % this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language
On 5/21/2013 10:26 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote: I was looking for something else and just found what I think is the place where I was first exposed to the myth[1]: Since str.format() is quite new, a lot of Python code still uses the % operator. However, because this old style of formatting will eventually be removed from the language, str.format() should generally be used. Is this tutorial outdated or this still an issue? [1] http://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/inputoutput.html#old-string-formatting That tutorial is out of date. %-formatting isn't being removed. --Ned. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
