Re: New to Python - Career question

[J. Clarke]

In article , 
larry.mart...@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
> > pta...@gmail.com:
> >
> >> New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing
> >> well and like it very much. Considering a career change down the road
> >> and have been wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age
> >> entry level programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding
> >> where I stand career wise. Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!
> >
> > Different employers hire differently. I have hired several people for my
> > employer, and age has never been a concern. Python is also an important
> > tool where I work.
> >
> > However, the problem in our field is that you have to be quite good to
> > be truly useful. Unfortunately, it seems that only a minority with a
> > formal degree are good enough. On the other hand, I work with some great
> > software developers who don't have a degree at all.
> >
> > One good way to become a good developer and also test oneself is to pick
> > a free software project online a become a contributor. Your commit log
> > entries on GitHub advertise you much better than any pretty-printed
> > résumé.
> 
> I work 70 or more hours a week and have a family and hobbies and a
> personal life. I do not have time to contribute to any open source
> projects. And because I cannot show anything on GitHub I have often
> been summarily disqualified for even getting an interview. (I have
> donated money to open source projects.)

If you're looking to change careers to programmer and you have hobbies that 
don't include programming, reconsider the change.  
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Re: New to Python - Career question

[Larry Martell]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 3:51 AM, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Larry Martell  writes:
>> I can tell they think I am old and they dismiss me right away.
>
> http://oldgeekjobs.com ?

Cool! Thanks! Sharing with all my old nerdy friends.
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Re: New to Python - Career question

[Paul Rubin]

Larry Martell  writes:
> I can tell they think I am old and they dismiss me right away.

http://oldgeekjobs.com ?
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Re: New to Python - Career question

[Fred Stluka]

   On 6/6/17 5:39 PM, [1]pta...@gmail.com wrote:

 New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing well and 
like it very much. Considering a career change down the road and have been 
wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age entry level 
programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding where I stand career 
wise.  Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!

   Are you asking about job prospects based on experience with Python
   vs other languages?

   If so, here's a site that shows the relative demand for various
   programming languages over time.  Based on its huge database of
   job listings.  Also shows the relative supply of programmers in
   various languages over time.  You can specify which languages
   or other marketable skills to show in the graph:
   -
   
[2]https://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/q-python-q-ruby-q-php-q-javascript-q-java-q-perl.html

   Hope this helps,
   --Fred

   --

   Fred Stluka -- [3]mailto:f...@bristle.com -- [4]http://bristle.com/~fred/
   Bristle Software, Inc -- [5]http://bristle.com -- Glad to be of service!
   Open Source: Without walls and fences, we need no Windows or Gates.

   --

References

   Visible links
   1. mailto:pta...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/q-python-q-ruby-q-php-q-javascript-q-java-q-perl.html
   3. mailto:f...@bristle.com
   4. http://bristle.com/~fred/
   5. http://bristle.com/
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Re: New to Python - Career question

[Matt]

On Tuesday, June 6, 2017 at 3:37:56 PM UTC-7, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> pta...@gmail.com:
> 
> > New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing
> > well and like it very much. Considering a career change down the road
> > and have been wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age
> > entry level programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding
> > where I stand career wise. Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!
> 
> Different employers hire differently. I have hired several people for my
> employer, and age has never been a concern. Python is also an important
> tool where I work.
> 
> However, the problem in our field is that you have to be quite good to
> be truly useful. Unfortunately, it seems that only a minority with a
> formal degree are good enough. On the other hand, I work with some great
> software developers who don't have a degree at all.
> 
> One good way to become a good developer and also test oneself is to pick
> a free software project online a become a contributor. Your commit log
> entries on GitHub advertise you much better than any pretty-printed
> résumé.
> 
> 
> Marko



Marko,

Thanks, appreciate your input.  I'll check out Github and follow your 
suggestions.
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Re: New to Python - Career question

[Larry Martell]

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
> pta...@gmail.com:
>
>> New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing
>> well and like it very much. Considering a career change down the road
>> and have been wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age
>> entry level programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding
>> where I stand career wise. Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!
>
> Different employers hire differently. I have hired several people for my
> employer, and age has never been a concern. Python is also an important
> tool where I work.
>
> However, the problem in our field is that you have to be quite good to
> be truly useful. Unfortunately, it seems that only a minority with a
> formal degree are good enough. On the other hand, I work with some great
> software developers who don't have a degree at all.
>
> One good way to become a good developer and also test oneself is to pick
> a free software project online a become a contributor. Your commit log
> entries on GitHub advertise you much better than any pretty-printed
> résumé.

I work 70 or more hours a week and have a family and hobbies and a
personal life. I do not have time to contribute to any open source
projects. And because I cannot show anything on GitHub I have often
been summarily disqualified for even getting an interview. (I have
donated money to open source projects.)
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: New to Python - Career question

[Marko Rauhamaa]

pta...@gmail.com:

> New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing
> well and like it very much. Considering a career change down the road
> and have been wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age
> entry level programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding
> where I stand career wise. Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!

Different employers hire differently. I have hired several people for my
employer, and age has never been a concern. Python is also an important
tool where I work.

However, the problem in our field is that you have to be quite good to
be truly useful. Unfortunately, it seems that only a minority with a
formal degree are good enough. On the other hand, I work with some great
software developers who don't have a degree at all.

One good way to become a good developer and also test oneself is to pick
a free software project online a become a contributor. Your commit log
entries on GitHub advertise you much better than any pretty-printed
résumé.


Marko
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Re: New to Python - Career question

[Larry Martell]

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:39 PM,   wrote:
> New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing well and 
> like it very much. Considering a career change down the road and have been 
> wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age entry level 
> programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding where I stand career 
> wise.  Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!

First off, do you have a programming background and/or format
training? I run into a lot of people who are, for example, mechanical
engineers or some other fairly high tech discipline, and can write
code, but have no formal training in it. Usually they write very bad
code that is hard to maintain and/or extend. I think twice before
hiring anyone like that.

Second, what is middle age to you? I am 57 and I have been programming
since I was 16 and doing it professionally since I was 20. I have a
degree in Software Engineering and I have worked in many different
industries and with many different technologies. For the last 5-6
years I have run into a lot of age discrimination, and colleagues of a
similar age have told me the same thing. Being interviewed by someone
who is 20-30 I can tell they think I am old and they dismiss me right
away. These days the only work I seem to get is when I am interviewed
by someone my age or older, or if I come with a strong recommendation
from someone the person doing the hiring personally knows. In fact I
have been told more then once after I have gotten a job and been
working at it for a while that the person who hired me was very
hesitant to because of my age, but they did because their friend had
worked with me before and said very good things.

This really worries me because I do not have enough money to retire
and doubt I ever will.
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New to Python - Career question

[ptanyc]

New to Python and have been at it for about a month now. I'm doing well and 
like it very much. Considering a career change down the road and have been 
wondering... What are the job prospects for a middle age entry level 
programmer. Just trying to get a better understanding where I stand career 
wise.  Appreciate all feed back. Thanks!
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list