Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 4/15/22, Grant Edwards wrote: > > The problem is that people run the installer, don't see a desktop > icon, and think nothing has been installed. Such people need to learn how to use the start menu, where all of Python's shortcuts are installed in a folder named "Python ". One can also press the Windows key and type "python" to get a filtered view of the application shortcuts. > Or they think the installer "is python", and run it over and over > again trying to "run Python". I'm not opposed to renaming the installer to something that makes it more obvious that it's only an installer. But, to put this in perspective, I think you're talking about a small number of people out of the millions of users who I presume install and use Python without a problem. It could be that thousands of people install Python and give up without complaining when they can't use it, but I doubt it. > If the installer, by default, created an IDLE desktop shortcut and a > cmd.exe shortcut that ran Python, I believe it would eliminate most of > those problems. The installed shortcuts are to IDLE (via "pythonw.exe") and "python.exe". IDLE is a graphical integrated development environment (shell, editor, debugger) that by default runs an interactive shell. The "python.exe" executable is a console (terminal) application that by default runs an interactive shell if its arguments do not specify a script file, -m module, or -c command to run. A console application is attached to a console session, a resource that's hosted by an instance of "conhost.exe" or (in a tab of Windows Terminal) "openconsole.exe". It connects to the console session via files on the ConDrv device (e.g. "\Device\ConDrv\Connect", "\Device\ConDrv\Input", "\Device\ConDrv\Output"). If an application executable is flagged as a console application, such as "python.exe", and no console session was inherited from the parent process, and the process wasn't spawned with the DETACHED_PROCESS flag, then the Windows base API automatically allocates and attaches to a new console session at startup during the initialization of kernelbase.dll. If an application executable is flagged as a graphical application, such as "pythonw.exe", then a console session is never inherited and never automatically allocated, but one can be manually allocated or acquired via AllocConsole() or AttachConsole(dwProcessId). -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
Am 15.04.2022 um 18:53 schrieb Mats Wichmann: > On 4/15/22 08:59, Grant Edwards wrote: > >> Of course it's easy to add. But, we're talking about people who have >> no idea how to do that. They have no clue how to "navigate to the >> install directory". They don't even realize anything _was_ installed. > > > I dunno, it's a pretty WIndows-y thing, > But anyway... Yes, it is a pretty "Windows-y thing". How do Windows software installers work? What do they do? They add shortcuts to the desktop. I do not use Windows for myself since many years, but it is hard for me to remember any software that did not add those shortcuts. > right-click + create shortcut. Right-click on what and where? On something called "IDLE" (has what to do with python?). Right click on "python.exe" which gives some wired texty DOS-window (or how that thing is called) where one can do what? Don't get me wrong. I do not ask those questions. Myself, I'm perfectly able to compile Python from source on pretty much any system you throw me at. But we are talking about people who are new to programming. AFAIK, almost every Windows tool/application/utility does add those desktop shortcuts/icons/links. Newcomers expect, want and need some editor or IDE or "app". Just put a "Python" folder on the desktop with an "IDLE Python Editor" on the desktop and done. How hard is it do add that functionality to the Windows installer? Because I just can't see any reason not to do it. What is there to lose in trying/doing that? What dire consequences does that might have? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 2022-04-15, Mats Wichmann wrote: > I'd add - not naming the installer something Windows' memory of recent > files retains as being Python itself - could be as simple as including > the word "setup" in the name. Oh yes, that's been suggested many, many times also. :) I always name all my installers something that ends in -setup.exe or -setup.ini. I always used to build .exe installers, but have more recently been trending towards .ini's. But the end of the basename alway ends in -setup. -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
Am 15.04.22 um 02:49 schrieb Mats Wichmann: On 4/14/22 18:06, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2022-04-14, Richard Damon wrote: I think the issue is that the 'python' interpreter/compiler isn't the sort of program that makes sense to make a desktop icon for, as it is a command line utility. Yes, it is a command line utility. Why does that mean you shouldn't have a desktop shortcut for it? I start up a python REPL prompt in a terminal often enough that were I a windows users, I would probably want a desktop shortcut for it. It would at least let people know that something got installed and show them what a Python is. If they don't want/use that shortcut, it's trivial to delete it. easy to add - it's a windows thing, not a python thing. you can navigate to the install directory and create a shortcut and drag that out of that directiory in explorer and drop it on the desktop. or you can navigate through the start menu, and when you get to the thing you want, pick open folder and then you can create a shortcut and drag off to the desktop. Yes, you *can* do that of course and it is not a Python thing - but the point is, that typical Windows installers create these shortcuts during the installation process for you - typically there is a pre-selected checkbox "Create desktop icons" or similar. I agree with Grant that this is what users expect from the installer. Christian -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 4/15/22 08:59, Grant Edwards wrote: > Of course it's easy to add. But, we're talking about people who have > no idea how to do that. They have no clue how to "navigate to the > install directory". They don't even realize anything _was_ installed. I dunno, it's a pretty WIndows-y thing, right-click + create shortcut. But anyway... > The problem is that people run the installer, don't see a desktop > icon, and think nothing has been installed. Or they think the > installer "is python", and run it over and over again trying to "run > Python". Then they post the exact same plea for help that has been > posted coutless times. > > If the installer, by default, created an IDLE desktop shortcut and a > cmd.exe shortcut that ran Python, I believe it would eliminate most of > those problems. I'd add - not naming the installer something Windows' memory of recent files retains as being Python itself - could be as simple as including the word "setup" in the name. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 2022-04-15, Mats Wichmann wrote: > On 4/14/22 18:06, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2022-04-14, Richard Damon wrote: >> >>> I think the issue is that the 'python' interpreter/compiler isn't the >>> sort of program that makes sense to make a desktop icon for, as it is a >>> command line utility. >> >> Yes, it is a command line utility. Why does that mean you shouldn't >> have a desktop shortcut for it? >> >> I start up a python REPL prompt in a terminal often enough that were I >> a windows users, I would probably want a desktop shortcut for it. >> >> It would at least let people know that something got installed and >> show them what a Python is. If they don't want/use that shortcut, it's >> trivial to delete it. > > easy to add - it's a windows thing, not a python thing. you can > navigate to the install directory and create a shortcut and drag > that out of that directiory in explorer and drop it on the desktop. Of course it's easy to add. But, we're talking about people who have no idea how to do that. They have no clue how to "navigate to the install directory". They don't even realize anything _was_ installed. The problem is that people run the installer, don't see a desktop icon, and think nothing has been installed. Or they think the installer "is python", and run it over and over again trying to "run Python". Then they post the exact same plea for help that has been posted coutless times. If the installer, by default, created an IDLE desktop shortcut and a cmd.exe shortcut that ran Python, I believe it would eliminate most of those problems. -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 4/14/22 18:06, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2022-04-14, Richard Damon wrote: > >> I think the issue is that the 'python' interpreter/compiler isn't the >> sort of program that makes sense to make a desktop icon for, as it is a >> command line utility. > > Yes, it is a command line utility. Why does that mean you shouldn't > have a desktop shortcut for it? > > I start up a python REPL prompt in a terminal often enough that were I > a windows users, I would probably want a desktop shortcut for it. > > It would at least let people know that something got installed and > show them what a Python is. If they don't want/use that shortcut, it's > trivial to delete it. > > -- > Grant > > easy to add - it's a windows thing, not a python thing. you can navigate to the install directory and create a shortcut and drag that out of that directiory in explorer and drop it on the desktop. or you can navigate through the start menu, and when you get to the thing you want, pick open folder and then you can create a shortcut and drag off to the desktop. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 2022-04-14, Richard Damon wrote: > I think the issue is that the 'python' interpreter/compiler isn't the > sort of program that makes sense to make a desktop icon for, as it is a > command line utility. Yes, it is a command line utility. Why does that mean you shouldn't have a desktop shortcut for it? I start up a python REPL prompt in a terminal often enough that were I a windows users, I would probably want a desktop shortcut for it. It would at least let people know that something got installed and show them what a Python is. If they don't want/use that shortcut, it's trivial to delete it. -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 4/14/22 17:08, Richard Damon wrote: > I think the issue is that the 'python' interpreter/compiler isn't the > sort of program that makes sense to make a desktop icon for, as it is a > command line utility. > > Perhaps making an icon for IDLE, if it has also been installed, but then > the issue becomes would people recognize 'IDLE' as 'Python' to click on. I think so, the current icon has the Python logo superimposed on what looks like a page of code. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 4/14/22 2:42 PM, Mirko via Python-list wrote: Am 13.04.2022 um 20:39 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber: On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:38:11 +1000, Tim Deke declaimed the following: Dear Sir, I have successfully downloaded Python into my laptop but the shortcut icon is not appearing on the desktop. I am using Windows 10 with the PC specifications as per snap shot attached below. Can you advise what to do? Thank you Tim Deke Python normally does not create "shortcut icon"s -- one downloads an The Python Windows installer *absolutely* should. I do not know much about (modern) Windows, but one thing I do know is, that most Windows users are confused when after an installation there is no easy way to call the program. I do not understand, why the Windows installer *still* does not create a "Python 3.10" _*or similar*_ folder on the desktop with links to IDLE (with an icon text describing it properly as a Python Editor/IDE), the CHM and some introduction text in it. installer (which on my system would be saved in %userprofile%\downloads), and executes the installer (once). Python is not an all-in-one GUI development environment (ie; it is not something like Lazarus/FreePascal, Visual Studio, etc.). It is an interpreter for script files and depending upon how the installer sets up the environment, one may never need to directly invoke the Python interpreter -- one just invokes .py script files and the OS activates the correct interpreter. With all due respect, but do you really think that it is useful for a Python beginner to know how to run the bare interpreter? ;-) Wouldn't it be much better to educate them about IDLE which can be found in the "Startmenu"? I think the issue is that the 'python' interpreter/compiler isn't the sort of program that makes sense to make a desktop icon for, as it is a command line utility. Perhaps making an icon for IDLE, if it has also been installed, but then the issue becomes would people recognize 'IDLE' as 'Python' to click on. -- Richard Damon -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 2022-04-14, Mirko via Python-list wrote: >> Python normally does not create "shortcut icon"s -- one downloads an > > The Python Windows installer *absolutely* should. Agreed. I'm not much of a Windows user, but I do maintain a few Windows applications with installers. They all create desktop shortcuts by default. There's a checkbox for it, and the user can uncheck it. In my experience, if an installer doesn't create a desktop shortcut by default, it just generates a lot of support calls about the installer not working or how do you run the program? Expecting people to go read some documentation on how to run a program, or even expecting them to look through the start menu is asking for headaches. That said, I don't really have much skin in this game since I neither use nor help maintain the windows installer. I do sometimes try to respond to the "installer is broken" or "how do I run it" posts, but I've mostly given up on that. -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
Am 13.04.2022 um 20:39 schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber: > On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:38:11 +1000, Tim Deke declaimed > the following: > >> Dear Sir, >> >> I have successfully downloaded Python into my laptop but the shortcut icon >> is not appearing on the desktop. I am using Windows 10 with the PC >> specifications as per snap shot attached below. Can you advise what to do? >> >> Thank you >> >> Tim Deke >> > Python normally does not create "shortcut icon"s -- one downloads an The Python Windows installer *absolutely* should. I do not know much about (modern) Windows, but one thing I do know is, that most Windows users are confused when after an installation there is no easy way to call the program. I do not understand, why the Windows installer *still* does not create a "Python 3.10" _*or similar*_ folder on the desktop with links to IDLE (with an icon text describing it properly as a Python Editor/IDE), the CHM and some introduction text in it. > installer (which on my system would be saved in %userprofile%\downloads), > and executes the installer (once). Python is not an all-in-one GUI > development environment (ie; it is not something like Lazarus/FreePascal, > Visual Studio, etc.). It is an interpreter for script files and depending > upon how the installer sets up the environment, one may never need to > directly invoke the Python interpreter -- one just invokes .py script files > and the OS activates the correct interpreter. With all due respect, but do you really think that it is useful for a Python beginner to know how to run the bare interpreter? ;-) Wouldn't it be much better to educate them about IDLE which can be found in the "Startmenu"? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
> On 13 Apr 2022, at 19:46, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > > C:\Users\Wulfraed>rem "py launcher" (which I don't trust as it has been > known to pick a different Python at times > C:\Users\Wulfraed>py > Python ActivePython 3.8.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on > on win32 > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. Py.exe is deterministic. You can edit an .ini file to configure it if the defaults do not work for you. Use py -0 to see what python’s it can find. Barry -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On 14/04/2022 05.38, Tim Deke wrote: > Dear Sir, > > I have successfully downloaded Python into my laptop but the shortcut icon > is not appearing on the desktop. I am using Windows 10 with the PC > specifications as per snap shot attached below. Can you advise what to do? https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html -- Regards, =dn -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: No shortcut Icon on Desktop
On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 03:38:11 +1000, Tim Deke declaimed
the following:
>Dear Sir,
>
>I have successfully downloaded Python into my laptop but the shortcut icon
>is not appearing on the desktop. I am using Windows 10 with the PC
>specifications as per snap shot attached below. Can you advise what to do?
>
>Thank you
>
>Tim Deke
>
>[image: image.png]
Text only group -- if you need to reference a binary file you will have
to post it on some hosting service and include a link (URL) to that file.
CAVEAT: many of us will not click on random/ad-hoc links -- if the link
does not explicitly end in a recognized file name it will be considered
dangerous [as it could transfer anything, including mal-ware]; at least
with a "safe" file name, it may be considered for examination)
As for the main question?
WHAT did you download -- where from, what name, etc. ...and where on
your computer did you download it?
Python normally does not create "shortcut icon"s -- one downloads an
installer (which on my system would be saved in %userprofile%\downloads),
and executes the installer (once). Python is not an all-in-one GUI
development environment (ie; it is not something like Lazarus/FreePascal,
Visual Studio, etc.). It is an interpreter for script files and depending
upon how the installer sets up the environment, one may never need to
directly invoke the Python interpreter -- one just invokes .py script files
and the OS activates the correct interpreter.
C:\Users\Wulfraed>rem direct invocation; python.exe is found in %PATH%
C:\Users\Wulfraed>python
Python ActivePython 3.8.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
C:\Users\Wulfraed>rem "py launcher" (which I don't trust as it has been
known to pick a different Python at times
C:\Users\Wulfraed>py
Python ActivePython 3.8.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>
C:\Users\Wulfraed>
C:\Users\Wulfraed>type junk.py
print("Let me out of here!")
C:\Users\Wulfraed>rem invocation of python providing a script file
C:\Users\Wulfraed>python junk.py
Let me out of here!
C:\Users\Wulfraed>rem direct invocation of script file, .py linked to
Python by OS
C:\Users\Wulfraed>junk.py
Let me out of here!
C:\Users\Wulfraed>rem direct invocation -- with .py defined as an
"executable" extension on my system
C:\Users\Wulfraed>junk
Let me out of here!
C:\Users\Wulfraed>
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
No shortcut Icon on Desktop
Dear Sir, I have successfully downloaded Python into my laptop but the shortcut icon is not appearing on the desktop. I am using Windows 10 with the PC specifications as per snap shot attached below. Can you advise what to do? Thank you Tim Deke [image: image.png] -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
