Non-ASCII languages (was: Re: style question)

2006-07-01 Thread Jorgen Grahn
On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:19:34 +0200, Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jorgen Grahn wrote:
...
 (I like well-typeset code in print though. Bjarne Stroustrup uses an elegant
 system for C++ code, where identifiers and strings are in Times italic,
 operators in Courier, and so on.)

 the idea of printing everything in courier (or some other monospace 
 font) is a rather new idea; if you read seventies stuff, the program 
 code is often as carefully designed as the rest of the document.

Possibly true, and definitely for Knuth.  But WYSIWYG was unknown at the
time; these people all programmed using fixed-width fonts, on teletypes or
character-mapped terminals. Hell, even full-screen editors were new and
controversial until the late 1970s!

Program editing and displaying/typesetting can be treated as separate from
each other. Personally, I think they /should/ be -- I prefer troff or LaTeX
to MS Word, after all.

 (for an indication that we might be moving back to nicely rendered code, 
 see Sun's new Fortress language, which provides extraordinarily detailed 
 control over how identifiers are rendered, including extensive support 
 for Unicode and math notation.  it also mandates the use of proportional 
 fonts for things like identifiers and comments...)

And Sun apparently think they should not be separate.
To me, it looks like they are planning for this language to fail.

If I wanted to try out this language, I would have to give up most of my
existing toolbox -- which works flawlessly with everything from TI assembly
to Python. And what would people discuss on comp.lang.fortress? Google
destroys Python code well enough ...

/Jorgen

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Re: Non-ASCII languages (was: Re: style question)

2006-07-01 Thread Nick Maclaren

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Jorgen Grahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| 
| Possibly true, and definitely for Knuth.  But WYSIWYG was unknown at the
| time; these people all programmed using fixed-width fonts, on teletypes or
| character-mapped terminals. Hell, even full-screen editors were new and
| controversial until the late 1970s!

A slight niggle - WYSIWYG wasn't unknown, just both rare and not yet
called that!  I have programmed using devices with half-line shifts,
real backspacing and so on - and some languages did mandate that a
character created by overprinting was to be treated as a composite
character.

Also, there were full-screen editors for things like IBM 3270s, though
they were absolutely ghastly for editing text (being designed for form
filling).

I agree with you that neither those days nor gimmicky approaches like
that of Fortress are worth pursuing.  One of the main reasons that
'program proving' has never taken off outside its cabal is that it
uses bizarre notations unlike anything else on earth that can't be
edited in a normal fashion.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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