Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
about the encryption: is ur product more valuable than the linux kernel? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
Diez B. Roggisch a écrit : It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or Django IMHO. You are entitled to your opinion, but calling Zope a Rube-Goldberg-machine is strong. To put it mildly. How about sharing some of the reasons for this? A few years experience with it - both using it 'barebones' and working with cmf-based apps like Plone and CPS. There are quite a few very interesting and/or clever things in Zope, and a lot to learn from it's strong and weak spots, but in it's current state, Zope2.x is layers above layers of ill-documented base classes and not-always-that-clever hacks. And Zope3 - which is indeed way cleaner - seems to be wanting to be more xmlish than any Java thingie ever. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
En Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:42:39 -0200, Bruno Desthuilliers [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Diez B. Roggisch a écrit : It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or Django IMHO. You are entitled to your opinion, but calling Zope a Rube-Goldberg-machine is strong. To put it mildly. How about sharing some of the reasons for this? A few years experience with it - both using it 'barebones' and working with cmf-based apps like Plone and CPS. There are quite a few very interesting and/or clever things in Zope, and a lot to learn from it's strong and weak spots, but in it's current state, Zope2.x is layers above layers of ill-documented base classes and not-always-that-clever hacks. And Zope3 - which is indeed way cleaner - seems to be wanting to be more xmlish than any Java thingie ever. I completely agree. Zope had a strong and powerful idea in the beginnings: let's publish objects on the Web! let's make a URL to invoke an object's methods with arguments! let's use persistent objects! Compared with the CGI spaghetti code mixing HTML and application logic and infrastructure in the same script (PHP/perl/ASP/whatever) that was so common some years ago, Zope was a blessing. But the original idea degenerated in a mamooth-like framework, rigid, convoluted, and hard to use. In Zope2 there is an extremely deep class hierarchy almost for anything (30 and more base classes wasn't uncommon - who can tell from *where* an attribute comes from?). And so much black magic - strange name conventions for all, that probably originated from the stone age, when Python had no decorators, no writeable function attributes, no metaclasses... and that lasted for a long time, Zope was stuck at using old-style classes years after they were introduced in Python 2.2 I might consider using Plone -not Zope alone!- if I had to build a portal exactly like Plone likes it. But nothing more. There are many other alternatives right now so I can stay far away from Zope, even given my masochistic tendencies. -- Gabriel Genellina -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
re encryption I ran a small software company in the '80s. We did the unthinkable: shipped our software with a money-back guarantee. Anyone could buy the software, copy it and then request a full refund. Return rate: 0.5%. Of the returns we guessed that about half of them were for perfectly legit reasons. Treat your customers as if they're all honest and ethical. Most of them will be. The rest will defeat your encryption efforts or just skip your product. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
Tamer Higazi wrote: - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the Apache or Tomcat Webserver? Zope is much more than a webserver. It's a web application server including a fast object database (ACID, support clustering and MVCC), a powerful plugin architecture, builtin security and many, many more. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zope - Is there a way of Round Tripp engineering based on UML XMI Files to generate python files (with it's dependencies) Plone and Archetypes (based on Zope) have a tool named ArchGenXML. It takes UML XMI files and generates content types, workflows and products for the Plone CMS. - Let us assume, I want to write a Web application in Python (what I did now in PHP5) and want to distribute my work under commercial usage. Can I encrypt my work and generate Licence Files for Customers who would purchase my End-Sollution like with: Source code encryption can't stop people from reading or stealing your code. Microsoft tries it, Apple tries it and even the RIAA tries it. None of them had success in the past. :] A proper service contract is more important. Christian -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
Am Sonntag, den 24.02.2008, 13:44 +0100 schrieb Christian Heimes: Plone and Archetypes (based on Zope) have a tool named ArchGenXML. It takes UML XMI files and generates content types, workflows and products for the Plone CMS. I don't want workflows, I want the classes and methods generated. Or do I understand this answer wrong Source code encryption can't stop people from reading or stealing your code. Microsoft tries it, Apple tries it and even the RIAA tries it. None of them had success in the past. :] A proper service contract is more important. Not true! you can disassemble the app and then have fun reading, not that easy. I simply want that nobody reads the sourcecode or better said the content of the python files I would have generated. But I think I have found one sollution. I have red that the bytecode compiler from Python is very advanced (more then the PHP bcompiler) to give me good brotection. Still I will have to look a lot for Python libraries which give me the same hardcore feeling like ezComponent (ez.no). I think Python is great! And I will soon dive there in! :) What is the difference between Ruby and Python? Can anyone say that to me? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
On 24 Feb, 14:33, Tamer Higazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not true! you can disassemble the app and then have fun reading, not that easy. I simply want that nobody reads the sourcecode or better said the content of the python files I would have generated. Some quick answers: http://wiki.python.org/moin/HowDoYouProtectSource [...] Still I will have to look a lot for Python libraries which give me the same hardcore feeling like ezComponent (ez.no). http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming I think Python is great! And I will soon dive there in! :) Great! What is the difference between Ruby and Python? Can anyone say that to me? http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonVsRuby Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
On 24 fév, 13:44, Christian Heimes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tamer Higazi wrote: - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the Apache or Tomcat Webserver? Zope is much more than a webserver. It's a web application server including a fast object database (ACID, support clustering and MVCC), a powerful plugin architecture, builtin security and many, many more. It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or Django IMHO. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or Django IMHO. You are entitled to your opinion, but calling Zope a Rube-Goldberg-machine is strong. To put it mildly. How about sharing some of the reasons for this? Just for the record: I'm a Turbogears user and even commiter - so I'm certainly not from the zope zealotry department. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
Hi! My brother is dreaming and dying for python and swear that it is the ultimate killer application language. I am coding Webapplication in PHP5 and ask myself if for python are: - application frameworks like: Zend Framework and ezComponents - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the Apache or Tomcat Webserver? - Is there a way of Round Tripp engineering based on UML XMI Files to generate python files (with it's dependencies) - Let us assume, I want to write a Web application in Python (what I did now in PHP5) and want to distribute my work under commercial usage. Can I encrypt my work and generate Licence Files for Customers who would purchase my End-Sollution like with: - Zend Encoder - IonCube - SourceGuardian ??? I just ask, because I have finished a product and will encrpyt it with the Ioncube encoder based on PHP5. for answering all my Questions, I would thank you guys very much Tamer Higazi -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
Hi! My brother is dreaming and dying for python and swear that it is the ultimate killer application language. I am coding Webapplication in PHP5 and ask myself if for python are: - application frameworks like: Zend Framework and ezComponents - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the Apache or Tomcat Webserver? - Is there a way of Round Tripp engineering based on UML XMI Files to generate python files (with it's dependencies) - Let us assume, I want to write a Web application in Python (what I did now in PHP5) and want to distribute my work under commercial usage. Can I encrypt my work and generate Licence Files for Customers who would purchase my End-Sollution like with: - Zend Encoder - IonCube - SourceGuardian ??? I just ask, because I have finished a product and will encrpyt it with the Ioncube encoder based on PHP5. for answering all my Questions, I would thank you guys very much. Tamer Higazi -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...
Tamer Higazi wrote: Hi! My brother is dreaming and dying for python and swear that it is the ultimate killer application language. I am coding Webapplication in PHP5 and ask myself if for python are: - application frameworks like: Zend Framework and ezComponents - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the Apache or Tomcat Webserver? You can write web servers completely in Python. There are many such, and there are also a number of web frameworks, the two best-known being TurboGears and Django. - Is there a way of Round Tripp engineering based on UML XMI Files to generate python files (with it's dependencies) I'll let the UML users answer this one, but UML is certainly supported, and quite a few commercial tools are starting to support Python. - Let us assume, I want to write a Web application in Python (what I did now in PHP5) and want to distribute my work under commercial usage. Can I encrypt my work and generate Licence Files for Customers who would purchase my End-Sollution like with: - Zend Encoder - IonCube - SourceGuardian ??? I just ask, because I have finished a product and will encrpyt it with the Ioncube encoder based on PHP5. The Python world doesn't invest greatly in source encryption, so you may not get many helpful suggestions. I am sure, however, that you will get a few people suggesting your code is rather less likely to need protection (and be worthy of it) than you think. for answering all my Questions, I would thank you guys very much. regards Steve -- Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
