Re: Python blogging software
> Fair enough. I shouldn't have said "lousy performance of the > framework itself" when I should have included the application. If the > application's page computations are so lengthy, then they too need > speeding up. > > We've got a situation where some big sites (Slashdot, Wikipedia) have > a lot of cached static pages for non-logged-in users (they all see the > same thing), but any user who is logged in sees a version customized > by their preferences, that's usually not cached. So there's a > perverse incentive to not log in, since you see the static page > faster. > > I'd really like to get hold of a big active blog or BBS server to > profile it. It's been puzzling me for years what makes them so slow. > They just paste user-contributed content together with HTML from > templates, so you'd think it shouldn't be too complicated. Most of the time, that means fetching data from the DB, which means context switches and network transfer. I'm a developer on a large java-driven application that deals with books. The app benefits hugely from caching - the whole object model is rather elaborated, and fetching it into memory (including images stored as blobs), and serializing it takes a couple of seconds. Per user! But just grabbing it from a disk as html snippet speeds up the app tremendously. Additionally, commercial sites often are composed by a rather large number of different parts. Teasers, lists of e.g. thematically related content and so on. And if you have lots of comparably large objects that are very diverse, a larger number of users may mean to exhaust memory quickly or even worse swap it around. All this is remedied by caching. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Fancy frameworks do use caching, but I think of that as a kludgy > > workaround for lousy performance of the framework itself. A fast > > framework should not need caching, except maybe caching gzip output > > for large blocks of contiguous text. > The value of caching is mostly for heavy-duty applications built on > top of the framework. The framework has no control over how much > computation the application does, but can offer savings by > "short-circuiting" the repeated execution of lengthy page computations > in application code. Fair enough. I shouldn't have said "lousy performance of the framework itself" when I should have included the application. If the application's page computations are so lengthy, then they too need speeding up. We've got a situation where some big sites (Slashdot, Wikipedia) have a lot of cached static pages for non-logged-in users (they all see the same thing), but any user who is logged in sees a version customized by their preferences, that's usually not cached. So there's a perverse incentive to not log in, since you see the static page faster. I'd really like to get hold of a big active blog or BBS server to profile it. It's been puzzling me for years what makes them so slow. They just paste user-contributed content together with HTML from templates, so you'd think it shouldn't be too complicated. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Paul Rubin wrote: > "Eric S. Johansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>a wise person you are. I've often thought that most of the pages >>generated by web frameworks (except for active pages) should be cached >>once rendered. > > > Fancy frameworks do use caching, but I think of that as a kludgy > workaround for lousy performance of the framework itself. A fast > framework should not need caching, except maybe caching gzip output > for large blocks of contiguous text. > The value of caching is mostly for heavy-duty applications built on top of the framework. The framework has no control over how much computation the application does, but can offer savings by "short-circuiting" the repeated execution of lengthy page computations in application code. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
"Eric S. Johansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > a wise person you are. I've often thought that most of the pages > generated by web frameworks (except for active pages) should be cached > once rendered. Fancy frameworks do use caching, but I think of that as a kludgy workaround for lousy performance of the framework itself. A fast framework should not need caching, except maybe caching gzip output for large blocks of contiguous text. > as to the comment system, I've been very disappointed by most blog > comment capabilities because they actively hinder the ability for > commenters to interact with each other. what I would like to see is a > short-life (i.e. three day) mailing list where the message history is > stored as if it were blog comments. Some comment systems are better than others, but transferring the comments to email sounds horrible, at least for users who use web boards to keep stuff OUT of their mailboxes. > Yes, you could build a web form techniques but the main advantage of > Web forms over mailing lists is that they fill your mailbox with > messages telling you that you have a message instead of delivering the > message itself. Yeah, that combines the worst of both worlds. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Fuzzyman wrote: > > Because it is client side (rather than running on the server), it has > no built in comments facility. I use Haloscan for comments, but I'm > always on the look out for a neat comments system to integrate with > Firedrop. > > I personally prefer the 'client side' approach, as it makes migrating > content to another server trivially easy. a wise person you are. I've often thought that most of the pages generated by web frameworks (except for active pages) should be cached once rendered. as to the comment system, I've been very disappointed by most blog comment capabilities because they actively hinder the ability for commenters to interact with each other. what I would like to see is a short-life (i.e. three day) mailing list where the message history is stored as if it were blog comments. The advantage of this technique is you can follow the comments without constantly checking in on the blog And you can actually build a community which interacts more easily than they do today. Yes, you could build a web form techniques but the main advantage of Web forms over mailing lists is that they fill your mailbox with messages telling you that you have a message instead of delivering the message itself. it would be interesting to see if one could build this capability into/out of mailman. I really hate reinventing the wheel unless the wheel is square and I need a round one. :-) ---eric -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 19:28 +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote: > Cliff Wells wrote: > > I'm currently using Frog, and it's decent, but lacks some fundamental > > features (tags for one). Since Irmen is probably going to scrap it > > anyway, I'm kind of fishing about for something new. > > That is not really true. I won't "scrap" Frog. One of the reasons > would be that I'm using it myself ;-) > Perhaps you confused it with the possible scrapping of the Snakelets > appserver it runs on? I'm thinking about rebuilding Frog on one > of the more established servers such as Turbogears. > But haven't had the time to start this. Yes, I saw that and took it to mean you were scrapping Frog as well (of course, if you scrap Snakelets, I suspect any new "Frog" would have little in common with the existing one except perhaps the moniker). BTW, I still like Frog (it's still near the top of the Python blog heap IMO), I just needed some things it didn't have. Regards, Cliff -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Cliff Wells wrote: > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 08:22 -0700, Fuzzyman wrote: > > Cliff Wells wrote: > > > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote: > > > > > > > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is > > > > fine) blog software written in Python? > > > > > > Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find > > > > > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware > > > > > > Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and > > > perhaps added to the list)? > > > > Firedrop2 is a client-side blog program (generates static HTML to be > > uploaded to your webserver). > > I looked at this but didn't care for it as it doesn't appear to allow > for comments (feature-wise it's a few steps down from Frog, which I > already have working). > Because it is client side (rather than running on the server), it has no built in comments facility. I use Haloscan for comments, but I'm always on the look out for a neat comments system to integrate with Firedrop. I personally prefer the 'client side' approach, as it makes migrating content to another server trivially easy. All the best, Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 08:22 -0700, Fuzzyman wrote: > Cliff Wells wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote: > > > > > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is > > > fine) blog software written in Python? > > > > Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find > > > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware > > > > Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and > > perhaps added to the list)? > > Firedrop2 is a client-side blog program (generates static HTML to be > uploaded to your webserver). I looked at this but didn't care for it as it doesn't appear to allow for comments (feature-wise it's a few steps down from Frog, which I already have working). For anyone who's interested, what I finally settled on was Bitakora. It violated one of my own requirements (it runs on Zope), but because it's multiuser and quite featureful and modern, the tradeoff seemed worth it: http://www.codesyntax.com/bitakora/about I will say that installing it was something of a pain. If the Zope guys want to know why Zope has been left behind, one of the first things I'd suggest is to clean up zope.org. Bitakora has several dependencies and nearly all of the links to these dependencies led me on a wild goose chase of broken links, multiple incompatible versions, incompatible forks, etc. For those who might follow in my footsteps, the dependencies (with correct links to correct versions) are: Epoz: http://iungo.org/products/Epoz/ Localizer: http://www.ikaaro.org/localizer TextIndexNG2: http://opensource.zopyx.biz/OpenSource/TextIndexNG CookieCrumbler: http://hathawaymix.org/Software/CookieCrumbler It also depends on BTreeFolder2, but that's included in the latest Zope 2.8 series. I think the worst of all of these was surprisingly Epoz. There are at least three distinct branches of this product: the original (deprecated), it's replacement (kupu), and a fork (which happens to be the correct one). The information on zope.org gives little indication that there might be such a fork (but is quite happy to lead you in circles). I noticed that several of the products mentioned the pain of maintaining software on zope.org (and so had moved their software elsewhere), so this is probably the root of the problem. Anyway, Zope complaints aside, Bitakora is really great and I'd recommend that anyone looking for a friendly, multiuser blog take a look. Regards, Cliff -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Hi, There is a blog demo in Karrigell : http://karrigell.sourceforge.net There is a project called KarriBlog aiming to offer a more complete application, it's still beta but you can see it working on this site (in French) : http://www.salvatore.exolia.net/site Regards, Pierre -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Cliff Wells wrote: > I'm currently using Frog, and it's decent, but lacks some fundamental > features (tags for one). Since Irmen is probably going to scrap it > anyway, I'm kind of fishing about for something new. That is not really true. I won't "scrap" Frog. One of the reasons would be that I'm using it myself ;-) Perhaps you confused it with the possible scrapping of the Snakelets appserver it runs on? I'm thinking about rebuilding Frog on one of the more established servers such as Turbogears. But haven't had the time to start this. --Irmen -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
Cliff Wells wrote: > On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote: > > > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is > > fine) blog software written in Python? > > Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware > > Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and > perhaps added to the list)? Firedrop2 is a client-side blog program (generates static HTML to be uploaded to your webserver). The link on that page is out of date. It is now : http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/firedrop2/ You can see a feed of some blogs created with Firedrop2 at : http://www.voidspace.org.uk/planetfiredrop/ Fuzzyman http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml > > Regards, > Cliff > > -- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python blogging software
On Wed, 2006-09-13 at 00:29 -0700, Cliff Wells wrote: > Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is > fine) blog software written in Python? Hmph. And as soon as I hit send I find http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBlogSoftware Okay, so is there any *not* on that list that should be considered (and perhaps added to the list)? Regards, Cliff -- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python blogging software
There's been a lot of blogs started in Python, but given the recent spate of web frameworks, I'm surprised that some blogging package hasn't taken front seat yet. I'm currently using Frog, and it's decent, but lacks some fundamental features (tags for one). Since Irmen is probably going to scrap it anyway, I'm kind of fishing about for something new. I've seen a few written in Zope/Plone, but they looked not quite interesting enough given the resources it would take to run them. At least two were started in TurboGears but seem to have vaporized. Anyone aware of any functional (doesn't need to be complete, beta is fine) blog software written in Python? Regards, Cliff -- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
