Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On Aug 9, 8:19 am, Mike Kent mrmak...@cox.net wrote: On Aug 8, 8:43 pm, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Xah, this is really you, isn't it. Come on, confess. *MOI*, How could *I* be xah. I really don't like Ruby however he gushes over it all the time. And he does not like Python that much either. We are total opposites, really. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On Aug 8, 8:15 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this-
cybersource.com.au wrote:
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:43:03 -0700, rantingrick wrote:
Ruby has what they
call a Here Doc. Besides picking the most boneheaded name for such an
object
It's standard terminology that has been around for a long time in many
different languages.
Just because something has been around around for a long time does not
necessarily mean it's was a good idea to begin with. STRAWMAN!
As you can see it is another example of tacked on functionality that was
not carefully considered before hand.
I disagree. It's an old and venerable technique, and very useful on the
rare occasion that you have lots of quotation marks in a string.
(...snip...)
Python strings have four delimiters:
(1) single quote '
(2) double quote
(3) single-quote here-doc '''
(4) double-quote here-doc
plus equivalent raw-strings of each kind.
Trying writing that as a single literal in Python without escapes. There
are work-arounds, of course, like using implicit concatenation, but
they're ugly.
Yes, with the choices we have today writing strings like you mention
is terribly asinine. And don't forget about filepaths and regexps too
with all the backslashing nonsense! However, there is a simple
solution to this mess. Python double quote strings and Python
multiline strings(that are delimited by leading and trailing
double quote triplets) should behave as they do today.
However Python 'single quote strings' and Python '''multiline
strings'''(that are delimited by leading and trailing single quote
triplets) should be raw so that they do not interpret escape
sequences. Yes i know this would break backwards compatibility *again*
but this functionality should have been made available in Py3000 since
we were already breaking it anyhow.
Why do we need both X AND '''X''' this if they do exactly the
same thing? Also why do we need both X AND 'X' if they do exactly
the same thing. A real chance to make something special was missed and
i hope one day we come to the realization that this proposed
functionality of strings (raw and normal) is sorely needed in Python.
In Ruby they decided to be more general, so you can define whatever
heredoc you need to quote whatever literal string you need. That's not
bone-headed.
The fact that Ruby has multi line strings (*ahem*... HEREDOC's) is not
at all the point i take issue with. I take issue with the boneheaded
syntax. Have you ever tried to grep Ruby heredocs? It would have been
so much easier if they had made a spec like this...
mystring = :{
blah blah blah
blahblah
blah blah blah
blah
}:
Or at least *some* static token instead of just creating something on
the fly each time now thats boneheaded!
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On Aug 8, 8:15 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: In Ruby they decided to be more general, so you can define whatever heredoc you need to quote whatever literal string you need. That's not bone-headed. Devils Advocate! PS: Man you're irb main was so full of cobweb i could barley see the code... haa... h... hachew!. ;-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 00:29:19 -0700, rantingrick wrote: On Aug 8, 8:15 pm, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: In Ruby they decided to be more general, so you can define whatever heredoc you need to quote whatever literal string you need. That's not bone-headed. Devils Advocate! PS: Man you're irb main was so full of cobweb i could barley see the code... haa... h... hachew!. ;-) irb's default prompt is a bit too verbose for my tastes, but Python allows you to customise its prompt too. You'll often see people here posting copy/pastes with a customised prompt, so obviously some people like that sort of thing. Me, my biggest gripe with the interactive interpreter is that using as a prompt clashes with as the standard quoting character in email and news, but Guido has refused to even consider changing it. And that it's quite finicky about blank lines between methods and inside functions. Makes it hard to paste code directly into the interpreter. And that pasting doesn't strip out any leading prompts. It needs a good doctest mode. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
Hi Steven, On 2010-08-09 10:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: And that it's quite finicky about blank lines between methods and inside functions. Makes it hard to paste code directly into the interpreter. And that pasting doesn't strip out any leading prompts. It needs a good doctest mode. ipython [1] should help here: IPython 0.10 -- An enhanced Interactive Python. ? - Introduction and overview of IPython's features. %quickref - Quick reference. help - Python's own help system. object? - Details about 'object'. ?object also works, ?? prints more. In [1]: %paste? Type: Magic function Base Class: type 'instancemethod' String Form:bound method InteractiveShell.magic_paste of IPython.iplib.InteractiveShell object at 0xb740096c Namespace: IPython internal File: /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/IPython/Magic.py Definition: %paste(self, parameter_s='') Docstring: Allows you to paste execute a pre-formatted code block from clipboard. The text is pulled directly from the clipboard without user intervention. The block is dedented prior to execution to enable execution of method definitions. '' and '+' characters at the beginning of a line are ignored, to allow pasting directly from e-mails, diff files and doctests (the '...' continuation prompt is also stripped). The executed block is also assigned to variable named 'pasted_block' for later editing with '%edit pasted_block'. You can also pass a variable name as an argument, e.g. '%paste foo'. This assigns the pasted block to variable 'foo' as string, without dedenting or executing it (preceding and + is still stripped) '%paste -r' re-executes the block previously entered by cpaste. IPython statements (magics, shell escapes) are not supported (yet). See also cpaste: manually paste code into terminal until you mark its end. Unfortunatey, when I enter In [2]: %paste at the prompt it gives me (before I pasted anything) In [2]: %paste File string, line 1 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipython/0.10 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax So far, I couldn't find anything on the net on this. [1] http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipython Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On Aug 8, 8:43 pm, rantingrick rantingr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello folks, You all know i been forced to use Ruby and i am not happy about that. ***Blablabla cut long rant*** Xah, this is really you, isn't it. Come on, confess. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On 2010-08-09 06:42 , Stefan Schwarzer wrote: Hi Steven, On 2010-08-09 10:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: And that it's quite finicky about blank lines between methods and inside functions. Makes it hard to paste code directly into the interpreter. And that pasting doesn't strip out any leading prompts. It needs a good doctest mode. ipython [1] should help here: IPython 0.10 -- An enhanced Interactive Python. ? - Introduction and overview of IPython's features. %quickref - Quick reference. help - Python's own help system. object? - Details about 'object'. ?object also works, ?? prints more. In [1]: %paste? Type: Magic function Base Class:type 'instancemethod' String Form:bound method InteractiveShell.magic_paste ofIPython.iplib.InteractiveShell object at 0xb740096c Namespace: IPython internal File: /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/IPython/Magic.py Definition: %paste(self, parameter_s='') Docstring: Allows you to paste execute a pre-formatted code block from clipboard. The text is pulled directly from the clipboard without user intervention. The block is dedented prior to execution to enable execution of method definitions. '' and '+' characters at the beginning of a line are ignored, to allow pasting directly from e-mails, diff files and doctests (the '...' continuation prompt is also stripped). The executed block is also assigned to variable named 'pasted_block' for later editing with '%edit pasted_block'. You can also pass a variable name as an argument, e.g. '%paste foo'. This assigns the pasted block to variable 'foo' as string, without dedenting or executing it (preceding and + is still stripped) '%paste -r' re-executes the block previously entered by cpaste. IPython statements (magics, shell escapes) are not supported (yet). See also cpaste: manually paste code into terminal until you mark its end. Unfortunatey, when I enter In [2]: %paste at the prompt it gives me (before I pasted anything) In [2]: %paste File string, line 1 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipython/0.10 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Yes, that's because you had that URL in your clipboard, not Python code. What were you expecting to happen? -- Robert Kern I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. -- Umberto Eco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
Hi Robert, On 2010-08-09 22:23, Robert Kern wrote: On 2010-08-09 06:42 , Stefan Schwarzer wrote: Unfortunatey, when I enter In [2]: %paste at the prompt it gives me (before I pasted anything) In [2]: %paste File string, line 1 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipython/0.10 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Yes, that's because you had that URL in your clipboard, not Python code. What were you expecting to happen? I got that traceback as soon as I typed in %paste and pressed enter, without pasting anything in the terminal. I had assumed it works like :paste in Vim, activating a kind of paste mode where everything pasted into the terminal is modified as the help text suggests. Ok, I just noticed I should have actually _read_ the help text, not just scanned it. ;-) Sorry for the confusion. Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On 2010-08-09 23:43, Stefan Schwarzer wrote: I got that traceback as soon as I typed in %paste and pressed enter, without pasting anything in the terminal. I had assumed it works like :paste in Vim, activating a I meant :set paste of course. Stefan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On 9 Aug, 10:21, Steven D'Aprano st...@remove-this- cybersource.com.au wrote: And that it's quite finicky about blank lines between methods and inside functions. Makes it hard to paste code directly into the interpreter. The combination of editor, debugger and interpreter is what I miss most from Matlab. In Matlab we can have a function or script open in an editor, and use it directly from the interpreter. No need to reimport or anything: edit and invoke. It is also possible to paste data directly from the clipboard into variables in the interpreter. ipython does not have that annoying prompt. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On 8/9/10 4:43 PM, Stefan Schwarzer wrote: Hi Robert, On 2010-08-09 22:23, Robert Kern wrote: On 2010-08-09 06:42 , Stefan Schwarzer wrote: Unfortunatey, when I enter In [2]: %paste at the prompt it gives me (before I pasted anything) In [2]: %paste File string, line 1 http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipython/0.10 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Yes, that's because you had that URL in your clipboard, not Python code. What were you expecting to happen? I got that traceback as soon as I typed in %paste and pressed enter, without pasting anything in the terminal. I had assumed it works like :paste in Vim, activating a kind of paste mode where everything pasted into the terminal is modified as the help text suggests. %cpaste will do that. I implemented %paste because not all terminals will correctly paste arbitrary amounts of code correctly. Grabbing the text directly from the clipboard is less error-prone and removes redundant user interaction. -- Robert Kern I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. -- Umberto Eco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
rantingrick wrote:
Hello folks,
[snip]
-
Strings
-
Single line strings are exactly the same in both languages except in
Ruby double quoted strings are backslash interpreted and single quote
strings are basically raw. Except Ruby introduces more cruft (as
usual) in the form of what i call lazy man stings
a = %w{ one two three}
[one, two, three]
s = %{one two three}
one two three
repat = %r{one two three}
/one two three/
... only good for hand coding!
From Perl.
--
Multi Line Strings
--
Ha. Ruby does not really have multi line strings. Ruby has what they
call a Here Doc. Besides picking the most boneheaded name for such
an object they also introduced and even more boneheaded syntax. To
define a Here Doc (god i hate that name!) you start with double
greater than and immediately follow with an identifier token of
you choice (it can be anything your dirty little mind can come up
with.
HEREDOC
this is the body
of a
here doc. Why the
hell did they not just
use triple quotes like Python did.
Now i will need to remember some token to know where'
i stopped
HEREDOC
As you can see it is another example of tacked on functionality that
was not carefully considered before hand. Anyway here are the
regexp's...
Python: r'.*?'
Python: r'''.*?'''
Ruby: r'(\w+).*?(\1)'
Also from Perl.
I don't know what the point of your post was. We already know that we
prefer Python; that's why we're here! :-)
And anyway, being nasty about other languages feels unPythonic to me...
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python -Vs- Ruby: A regexp match to the death!
On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:43:03 -0700, rantingrick wrote:
Ha. Ruby does not really have multi line strings.
Except, of course, it does, as you go on to show.
Ruby has what they
call a Here Doc. Besides picking the most boneheaded name for such an
object
It's standard terminology that has been around for a long time in many
different languages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_document
they also introduced and even more boneheaded syntax. To define a
Here Doc (god i hate that name!) you start with double greater than
and immediately follow with an identifier token of you choice (it
can be anything your dirty little mind can come up with.
HEREDOC
this is the body
of a
here doc. Why the
hell did they not just
use triple quotes like Python did.
Now i will need to remember some token to know where' i stopped
HEREDOC
Incorrect.
[st...@sylar ~]$ irb
irb(main):001:0 s = END
SyntaxError: compile error
(irb):1: syntax error
s = END
^
from (irb):1
irb(main):002:0 s = -END
irb(main):003:0 Multi-line text
irb(main):004:0 goes here
irb(main):005:0 END
= Multi-line text\ngoes here\n
irb(main):006:0 puts s
Multi-line text
goes here
= nil
irb(main):007:0
As you can see it is another example of tacked on functionality that was
not carefully considered before hand.
I disagree. It's an old and venerable technique, and very useful on the
rare occasion that you have lots of quotation marks in a string.
Whether those rare occasions are common enough to require specialist
syntax is another question. In Python, the idea is that two heredocs ('''
and ) is enough for anybody. That makes it difficult to write a string
literal like, e.g.:
Python strings have four delimiters:
(1) single quote '
(2) double quote
(3) single-quote here-doc '''
(4) double-quote here-doc
plus equivalent raw-strings of each kind.
Trying writing that as a single literal in Python without escapes. There
are work-arounds, of course, like using implicit concatenation, but
they're ugly.
In Ruby they decided to be more general, so you can define whatever
heredoc you need to quote whatever literal string you need. That's not
bone-headed.
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
