Re: Using Which Version of Linux
They are all the same as you don't have specific requirements mentioned. Based on the way you ask, I would say some debian derivative like ubuntu. debian is not programmer friendly but admin friendly I would say. In general programmer friendly distro to me would mean install everything one can possiblity think of by default so everything is at hand for use. Never tried the new solaris so I have no idea but I had some problem when installed their old x86 a few years back however things may have changed a lot. I tried briefly with fedora but its packaging system is not up to par, comparing with debian. However, you get newer things in fedora, in general. Fedora has the advantage that it works better with commercial stuff like Oracle/Sybase. I had problem making Sybase installed under debian(the reason why I tried fedora). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. > -- > * Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Beta 7 > * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
blahman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. A standard answer is - use that one, which is known to your friends, so they can help you. Actually all Linux distros come with python and huge amount of additional modules, so choose any. Fedora, Mandrake, Suse and Ubuntu willi be easier for begginers, as they are targeted on inexperienced Linux users (what doesn't mean they cannot be used by experienced), Debian requires some knowledge (well, way more then other distros) but i like it for its clarity, wonderful package manager apt and control i have over it, it is also well documented and popular. I suggest first use Knoppix - Debian based distro, that boots from cd, doesn't require installation and contains tons of software, including python of course. Solaris is a different os, has nothing to do with Linux. -- Maciej "Fiedzia" Dziardziel (fiedzia (at) fiedzia (dot) prv (dot) pl) www.fiedzia.prv.pl It is my fondest hope that you are reading these while you should be working. Isn't that what the net's really about anyways? Sort of a place to go 'researching' while you should be getting stuff done! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
blahman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. You seem a bit confused. Solaris isn't a Linux distribution, it's (System V) Unix. Linux isn't Unix - it's a Unix look-like. *BSD is Unix, but they can't call it that for licensing reasons. "Programmer-friendly" is pretty vague. Gentoo is the only Linux distro I've run into (which excludes a *lot* of Unix distros) that I'd consider programmer friendly, because it doesn't split packages up into "user stuff" and "developer stuff". That means you have to install two packages instead of one if you want to build things against that software. On the other hand, it uses it's own "package" manager - emerge - so you can't take advantage of rpms/debs from other systems (or you couldn't last time I looked into it). It also installs the least amount of "bundled" software, which I consider a programmer friendly behavior. Personally, I run FreeBSD - and I like gentoo because it has a lot in common with a BSD distribution. FreeBSD is the most popular of the BSDs. BSDs differ from Linuxen in that a BSD distribution is an integrated whole - the kernel and userland are maintained by the same group, in the same repository. So the number of BSD kernels to choose from is much greater than the number of Linux kernels, but the number of BSD distributions is much fewer. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. Solaris isn't Linux, but it is good. I've never installed it from scratch, though. I might get lambasted for suggesting this, but try Slackware. It will let you do a very minimal installation, which means there's less stuff that can go wrong. It also has nice, beginner-friendly FAQs to help you get started. Like the other distros already suggested, it comes with the graphical desktop environments Gnome and KDE, too. If at all possible, have another computer available with a working internet connection and a floppy disc drive or CD burner. Like Maciej said, if you have a buddy nearby who is already an expert on a particular distro, try that distro. This is especially true for distros like Gentoo that have... their own way of doing things. :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Jeffrey Schwab wrote: > > I might get lambasted for suggesting this, but try Slackware. It will > let you do a very minimal installation, which means there's less stuff > that can go wrong. It also has nice, beginner-friendly FAQs to help you > get started. Like the other distros already suggested, it comes with > the graphical desktop environments Gnome and KDE, too. What I like about Slackware/python is that you get the full python distribution. My last experience with Debian & subordinates was that only the "core" python was included with the distribution, and a bit of hunting was required to get Tkinter working. Maybe this has improved in the last year or two? Nick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:26:38 -0600, blahman wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. Personally I would recommend staying away from Fedora unless you have a friend who is well-versed in it and willing to help. I like the distributin ok (I run it on the laptop I'm writing this from) but it uses RPMs for package distribution, and the rpm tools don't know how to automatically downloaded dependencies like yum or apt do. Because of that I have to say that the RPM package tools suck quite badly. Debian and SUSE are both pretty good choices. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
And for complete control and customization of your os and hardware... There's nothing like Gentoo! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
I have been away from unix/linux for a couple of years. I went with SUSE. Just do an install all, and 10 gig later you are done. Very simple install, very easy admin with YAST. If you are a power admin, there may be better release. But if you want simple, but powerful, SUSE has worked well for me. Good Luck, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. -- The greatest performance improvement occurs on the transition of from the non-working state to the working state. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Hi Michael, I too use SUSE (9.3). The Novell operation has convinced me to go back to SUSE, after some trials with Mandrake and Ubuntu. Especially on the Python side all is ready up. But I will not go into the complications of "fork" and "thread" programming... Bye. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. > -- > * Posted with NewsLeecher v3.0 Beta 7 > * http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet You have to look out for the version of Python the distro comes with 2.4. Some don't and it may be nasty having to deal with different versions installed next to one another. (You will probably not be able to safely remove the original version as the distro uses it for many things.) Another point to watch for is things like Python bindings and easyness of gui (free) installation. FWIW, I like Suse10.0 (Novell). It has kde-Python bindings to Qt installed. It also has eric3 available. So without any additional cost or trouble, you'll have a powerful, dream developer's system. malv -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:26:38 -0600, blahman wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. I use the latest version of Ubuntu and find it very good in all respects. It's free and regularly maintained. Norman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Dan M wrote: > > Personally I would recommend staying away from Fedora unless you have a > friend who is well-versed in it and willing to help. I like the > distributin ok (I run it on the laptop I'm writing this from) but it uses > RPMs for package distribution, and the rpm tools don't know how to > automatically downloaded dependencies like yum or apt do. Because of that > I have to say that the RPM package tools suck quite badly. Dan, I don't know what version of Fedora you are running but FC4 and FC3 use yum for updating. --- Rod -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:26:38 -0600, blahman wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. Solaris is not Linux, although both are like Unix. In my opinion, Debian is not newbie friendly. In my experience, Ubunto is HUGELY over rated. The installation was easy, the user experience was like being poked in the eye with a blunt stick. In my experience, Fedora is very newbie friendly, as well as being quite powerful for non-newbies. If you are in Australia or the USA, and start looking for commercial support, you'll have less grief if you use Fedora than most other distros. Although it has to be said, multimedia support is rather lacking due to licencing issues. (And, in fairness, multimedia support is still Linux's biggest weakness compared to OS X and Windows.) I hear that Mandrake and SuSE are very popular in Europe. If you don't mind really horrible German industrial industrial punk themed desktops, you could do a lot worse than play around with the Knoppix LiveCD. That would be the quickest way to get started: no installation necessary. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On 2005-11-05, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Programmer-friendly" is pretty vague. Gentoo is the only Linux distro > I've run into (which excludes a *lot* of Unix distros) that I'd > consider programmer friendly, because it doesn't split packages up > into "user stuff" and "developer stuff". That means you have to > install two packages instead of one if you want to build things > against that software. On the other hand, it uses it's own "package" > manager - emerge - so you can't take advantage of rpms/debs from other > systems (or you couldn't last time I looked into it). It also installs > the least amount of "bundled" software, which I consider a programmer > friendly behavior. I just switched one of my computers to gentoo, and I like it a lot. It's very no-nonsense, but there are alot of available packages and everything (so far) just works. However, it's not for the impatient (or at least not for the poor and impatient). Since it compiles packages from source, a full-featured desktop install on a slow machine can take days to finish. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! if it GLISTENS, at gobble it!! visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On 2005-11-05, Dan M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Personally I would recommend staying away from Fedora unless you have a > friend who is well-versed in it and willing to help. I like the > distributin ok (I run it on the laptop I'm writing this from) but it uses > RPMs for package distribution, and the rpm tools don't know how to > automatically downloaded dependencies like yum or apt do. Nonsense. You're comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare rpm with something it would be dpkg. If you want to talk about yum or apt, then you should be comparing them to something like urpmi. If you tell it to install package X, it will analyze prerequisites, and then download and install everything required. It works almost exactly like apt-get does. Urpmi is text-mode, but there are also GUI front-ends that do the same thing. > Because of that I have to say that the RPM package tools suck > quite badly. You'd say the same think about Debian if all you had ever used was dpgk, and I dare you to try to do anything with dselect. > Debian and SUSE are both pretty good choices. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I just got my PRINCE at bumper sticker... But now I visi.comcan't remember WHO he is... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 12:50:44 +, Jeffrey Schwab wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i >> need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell >> me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more >> programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these >> three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. > > Solaris isn't Linux, but it is good. I've never installed it from > scratch, though. > > I might get lambasted for suggesting this, but try Slackware. If only you knew how hard I had to work to overcome the bad impression Slackware makes on first-time Linux users. > It will > let you do a very minimal installation, which means there's less stuff > that can go wrong. And less stuff that can go right, because it just isn't there. There is something sort of sad about watching an experienced Linux guru trying to get things done on Slackware, especially when the purist set it up with FVWM2 as the window manager. It is kind of like going back in time to 1980... > It also has nice, beginner-friendly FAQs to help you > get started. Just so you understand what Jeffrey is talking about, by "beginner-friendly" he means the FAQs walk you through the process of compiling your own kernel. (Okay, okay, so that's a *tiny* bit of an exaggeration... but not much. Slackware isn't quite Gentoo *wink*) -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Grant Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 2005-11-05, Mike Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> "Programmer-friendly" is pretty vague. Gentoo is the only Linux distro >> I've run into (which excludes a *lot* of Unix distros) that I'd >> consider programmer friendly, because it doesn't split packages up >> into "user stuff" and "developer stuff". That means you have to >> install two packages instead of one if you want to build things >> against that software. On the other hand, it uses it's own "package" >> manager - emerge - so you can't take advantage of rpms/debs from other >> systems (or you couldn't last time I looked into it). It also installs >> the least amount of "bundled" software, which I consider a programmer >> friendly behavior. > I just switched one of my computers to gentoo, and I like it a > lot. It's very no-nonsense, but there are alot of available > packages and everything (so far) just works. However, it's not > for the impatient (or at least not for the poor and impatient). > Since it compiles packages from source, a full-featured desktop > install on a slow machine can take days to finish. This is one of the things I love about the *BSD systems. The package system is "two-headed". You an do pkg_add, and it'll act like yum or apt-get, and install binaries for the package and all the requirements for it. Or you can cd to /usr/ports/category/pkg-name and do "make install", and it will download, compile and install all the required software and the port you're building (I do that to change the isntalltion prefix on the packages). If you want to create customized packages, you just do "make package". I found creating a port (and hence package) to be much easier than creating a .deb or .rpm, but that may just be me. For real control, you can install the portupgrade package. That said, the author of the BSD ports system thinks the architecture is wrong. It handles the building, installation, fetching and requirements all by itself. He thinks the yum/apt-get approach, where one tool handles package installation duties, and another deals with requirements fetching is much saner. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Dan M wrote: > On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 04:26:38 -0600, blahman wrote: > > >>ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i >>need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell >>me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more >>programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these >>three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. > > > Personally I would recommend staying away from Fedora unless you have a > friend who is well-versed in it and willing to help. I like the > distributin ok (I run it on the laptop I'm writing this from) but it uses > RPMs for package distribution, and the rpm tools don't know how to > automatically downloaded dependencies like yum or apt do. Because of that > I have to say that the RPM package tools suck quite badly. > > Debian and SUSE are both pretty good choices. I used yum on Fedora Core 2, and it downloaded and installed dependencies fine. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. Ubuntu comes with lots of Python stuff (Mark Shuttleworth, its sponsor, really loves Python - he gave me quite a lot of money for using it). For example, it's comes with Python scripting for the GIMP. It uses DEB packages, which are apparently better, but software (I find) is much easier to find in RPM format. Also, it tries to emulate a Windows-style file hierarchy. This is very irritating because: a) Windows-style file hierarchy is ugly and stupid, and certainly not worth emulating b) it is emulated badly. However, this is only apparent to the user. For the programmer, it is pure unix. (But it does its mounts in /media instead of /mnt) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 11:53:03 +0200 Max <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It uses DEB packages, which are apparently better, but > software (I find) is much easier to find in RPM format. I find this a bit of a deceptive impression. It is easier to find *third party* RPMs. OTOH, the Debian distribution makes it far easier for me to find DEB packages than RPM for the VAST majority of packages. That is to say, there are far better central repositories of DEB packages, even though they don't as often packaged by the original software authors. I think this is because DEBs, due to their finer dependency system are harder to make (but easier to keep). So it's a bit like proprietary software proponents who point to the local CompUSA and say "Look at all the software available for Windows, and one tiny shelf for Linux -- there must be more software for Windows", ignoring the fact that the one tiny shelf may well have more software on it than the rest of the store combined. Don't be snowed by the boxes. Similarly, I see RPMs by ones and twos all over the place, and only a few places with DEBs. But the DEB repositories are HUGE. > Also, it tries to emulate a Windows-style file > hierarchy. This is very irritating because: "it"=Ubuntu, Red Hat, or Debian? > a) Windows-style file hierarchy is ugly and stupid, and > certainly not worth emulating > b) it is emulated badly. Hmm. Not sure what you mean. I first thought you were criticizing FHS, but now I don't think so. If you're talking about the KDE/Gnome menus, that may be interesting. I've seen a lot of conflicting and inconsistent layouts, and I'm not sure how I would do it, given the chance. -- Terry Hancock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Terry Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Similarly, I see RPMs by ones and twos all over the place, > and only a few places with DEBs. But the DEB repositories > are HUGE. Try rpmfind.net. It's not clear where the rpms reside, but it's not really important - it's a huge collection of RPMs. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Max wrote: > (Mark Shuttleworth, ... > really loves Python - he gave me quite a lot of money for using it). Please elaborate. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:39:54 -0800, Steve M wrote: > > Max wrote: > >> (Mark Shuttleworth, ... >> really loves Python - he gave me quite a lot of money for using it). > > Please elaborate. Mark Shuttleworth is a very wealthy man who is supporting the development of Ubuntu. His wealth came from Linux and Python I believe. He was the second civilian to visit the International Space Station, travelling on a Russian Soyuz, for which he paid 20 million American dollars. If you want to know more look at the Ubuntu web site or, if you wish, I may be able to find you some more references. Norman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. Maybe you've already figured it out, but Ubuntu is your distro. See http://www.ubuntulinux.com/ It's based on Debian, but while standard Debian is a bit daunting to get up and running the first time, Ubuntu is one of the easiest Linux distros. Ubuntu is also much more up-to-date than the stable Debian, but still very stable. If you just want to try it out, and don't want to repartition your disk (or install a second disk), you can try the Ubuntu Live CD. Ubuntu has good support for modern hardware and a polished user interface, and it's very much focused on Python. You'll find a lot of Python modules that are maintained in the Ubuntu repositiories and will be kept up-to-date with something similar to Windows Update, all very convenient if you're on the net. Naturally, you can install Python source packages and run 'python setup.py install' the normal way, but then you won't get this auto-update feature. Mark Shuttleworth's projects, such as Ubuntu and School Tool, are also investing good money in Python development. You can even get Ubuntu CDs sent to you for free! Order ten and give out to your friends! I think it's a good way to promote Python. I've used Linux since Slackware 2.3. (Or 2.2?1994?) I'm certainly computer literate, but never had the stamina to get the normal Debian distro to work. After Slackware, I've tried Red Hat, SuSE and Mandrake etc, and I mainly use Red Hat Enterprise Linux at work, but given a choice I prefer Ubuntu these days. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
Magnus Lycka wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > ok, i m going to use Linux for my Python Programs, mainly because i > > need to see what will these fork() and exec() do. So, can anyone tell > > me which flavour of linux i should use, some say that Debian is more > > programmer friendly, or shold i use fedora, or Solaris. Because these > > three are the only ones i know of that are popular and free. > Hmm, I use FreeBSD at home, and Red Hat, SLES10, Fedora, etc. at work, and have used HPUX, Solaris, AIX, and I don't see any of them as more or less programmer friendly. They all have Python, PERL, C (or can get gcc), make, vi, emacs, cvs, all the basic tools you need. It's up to you to decide what to use, and all have the ability to enchance your environment, say with Idle, cooledit, gmake, gdb, etc. They all have XWindows, so if you want fancy editors or IDEs, just get a package or tarball and build it... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Which Version of Linux
I would strongly recomend ubuntu server 5.1. I installed it on about 15 servers. Its secure out of the box. no ports are open. It comes with python 2.4.1 and a ton of python modules. The install requires only 1 cd and uses only 400 mb. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
