Re: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
Thanks for the replies, guys! I had no idea Vim was capable of doing some of those things. The source browser in Vim is slick--I never would have known about that. As far as the GDB goes, it doesn't look like it has support for Python, but it's nice to know it's there for C if I get the chance to learn that language. Where do you guys go to learn all the capabilities of Vim? Just browsing through vim.org? The PIDA site is back up and running. It looks like a real winner! I'll have to download it and give it a whirl. Thanks again, Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
On Oct 19, Chris Lasher wrote: Where do you guys go to learn all the capabilities of Vim? Just browsing through vim.org? Just type: :h to see extensive info from the User Manual, Reference Manual, and any plugins. The near-comprehensive doc list: http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/ I don't see the Reference Manual there. The User Manual in PDF (which I printed really small on 14 pages and now carry in my backpack): http://www.eandem.co.uk/mrw/vim/usr_doc/index.html And the Vim Book (which I have only scanned): http://www.truth.sk/vim/vimbook-OPL.pdf -- _ _ ___ |\/|icah |- lliott http://micah.elliott.name [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
[Chris Lasher] Thanks for the replies, guys! I had no idea Vim was capable of doing some of those things. One detail which should be more widely known, in my opinion, is the capability of Vim (if compiled properly) to use Python has an extension language. That is, you may add new Vim commands to your liking (presuming you know how to program), writing them in Python. -- François Pinard http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
Thanks for your responses, guys. I can't get the PIDA page to come up for me; server timeout error. I'll have to look into Eclipse more, but I've been warned that it's resource greedy and that the VI plugin doesn't provide very much functionality. Still, that's hearsay, so I'll have to find out for myself. I would have figured Vim or VI editing behavior would be a lot more prevalent in IDEs but it seems to be quite rare. I don't understand that, because a lot of people seem to use IDEs, and a lot of people seem to use VI/Vim or Emacs. Is it the young guns that are tied to the IDEs, never knowing powerful text-editors exist, and old dogs sticking to their favorite editors, not giving in to all those distracting bells and whistles of IDEs? What's the deal? A marriage of the two would seem like the best of both worlds. Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
On 18 Oct 2005 07:16:11 -0700, Chris Lasher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A marriage of the twowould seem like the best of both worlds.Chris The pessimists would say the worst of both worlds ;) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
True and I had to give up emacs when I went to eclipse, but it was well worth it. I seem to recall that sourcenavigator allowed to configure an external editor (or maybe was it sniff+ ?) Regards, Philippe Chris Lasher wrote: Thanks for your responses, guys. I can't get the PIDA page to come up for me; server timeout error. I'll have to look into Eclipse more, but I've been warned that it's resource greedy and that the VI plugin doesn't provide very much functionality. Still, that's hearsay, so I'll have to find out for myself. I would have figured Vim or VI editing behavior would be a lot more prevalent in IDEs but it seems to be quite rare. I don't understand that, because a lot of people seem to use IDEs, and a lot of people seem to use VI/Vim or Emacs. Is it the young guns that are tied to the IDEs, never knowing powerful text-editors exist, and old dogs sticking to their favorite editors, not giving in to all those distracting bells and whistles of IDEs? What's the deal? A marriage of the two would seem like the best of both worlds. Chris -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
Chris Lasher wrote: Thanks for your responses, guys. I can't get the PIDA page to come up for me; server timeout error. I'll have to look into Eclipse more, but I've been warned that it's resource greedy and that the VI plugin doesn't provide very much functionality. Still, that's hearsay, so I'll have to find out for myself. I would have figured Vim or VI editing behavior would be a lot more prevalent in IDEs but it seems to be quite rare. I don't understand that, because a lot of people seem to use IDEs, and a lot of people seem to use VI/Vim or Emacs. Is it the young guns that are tied to the IDEs, never knowing powerful text-editors exist, and old dogs sticking to their favorite editors, not giving in to all those distracting bells and whistles of IDEs? What's the deal? A marriage of the two would seem like the best of both worlds. Chris What features are you looking for. I think most Vim users just add what they want to Vim. Here's what I use to launch a script and capture the output into a read only panel. I think it may still needs a little fine tuning. This is on windows, but it should work on linux with some minor changes. Cheers, Ron Add this to your python.vim file in your ftplugin directory. Run a python script and get the output into a window. set switchbuf=useopen function! RunPython(rmode) if a:rmode=='wnd' Run in python shell and capture the output to a vim buffer window. execute w! if bufnr(python_stdout) 0 exe sb python_stdout else exe 'split python_stdout' endif setlocal noswapfile set buftype=nofile setlocal modifiable normal ggdG silent! exe 'r!python #' setlocal nomodified set filetype=txt normal 1G elseif a:rmode=='ext' Execute script in python shell execute w! !start python -i % else Open an interactive shell !start python endif endfunction Add keymap to run and open console map F12 :call RunPython(wnd)cr map S-F12 :call RunPython(ext)crcr map c-F12 :call RunPython(psh)crcr imap F12 C-\C-N:call RunPython(wnd)cr:starcr imap S-F12 C-\C-N:call RunPython(ext)crcr:starcr imap c-F12 C-\C-N:call RunPython(psh)crcr:starcr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
I would second that. I use Vim for editing. I find I don't need an IDE (not even for C/C++). Vim does everything I need. If I want a debugger I will use the shell debugger. Most other things can be added to Vim, though I tend to run with very few plugins. -Chris On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 05:12:30PM +, Ron Adam wrote: What features are you looking for. I think most Vim users just add what they want to Vim. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
Thanks again for your responses, guys. To answer the question,the features I'd love to see in a Python IDE are: * First and foremost, Vim editing behavior. Let me keep my fingers on the homerow. I'm lazy. Point and click and CTRL + SHIFT has its moments, but text editing is not one of them. * Graphical symbolic debugger: the course I'm auditing, Software Carpentry, by Greg Wilson of University of Toronto, devoted a whole lecture to debuggers. See http://www.third-bit.com/swc/www/debugging.html . So now I want to try this crazy thing. I love the idea of being able to watch the values of variables change in realtime as the program runs, from the convenience of a little side window. I also love the concept of not having to insert debugging code into the production code--just a click in the left column and you set the debugging command. Keep the production code clean by putting the debugging commands outside the program. * Source browser: the ability to jump back and forth between specific blocks of code very quickly, and to see the overall layout of the file in terms of classes, methods, functions, etc. I want the big picture in a side window to keep me on task and remind me of how far I've come when I start feeling bogged down in details. * Autocompletion: PythonWin by ActiveState has nice autocompletion. When I import a module, it can dive down into those namespaces and allow autocompletion on them. That's a nice, productive feature. * Usage tips/tooltips: Also something I found in PythonWin. During the writing of the method, a little tip box pops up advising me what the inputs are for a method or an instance construction for a class. Very nice, very productive. * Linux compatibility: Nothing against Microsoft, or Apple, I just like to use a Linux box more. It seems like the IDEs I've looked at have most of the features, but none do Vim. Crazy. I agree that you can do all your coding using just Vim. That's how I've been doing it. But following along with Greg Wilson's Software Carpentry has made me realize that I could be more productive using the additional, apparently now-standard tools of a good IDE. I just don't want to sacrifice productivity in in keystrokes. It just seems like a compromise programmers shouldn't have to make. the other Chris Chris Lambacher wrote: I would second that. I use Vim for editing. I find I don't need an IDE (not even for C/C++). Vim does everything I need. If I want a debugger I will use the shell debugger. Most other things can be added to Vim, though I tend to run with very few plugins. -Chris On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 05:12:30PM +, Ron Adam wrote: What features are you looking for. I think most Vim users just add what they want to Vim. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
Most of this stuff can be done in Vim or Emacs. I only know the details for Vim, see below. I don't know why people are insistant on claiming that Vim and Emacs can't do these kinds of things. They are, it just may take a bit more work to set up. The advantage to this extra work is that you can make it work the way you want it to. Both Emacs and Vim have powerful languages for defining extensions to them. In the case of Vim you can use its own language or one of Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl (perhapse more?). -Chris On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 12:28:17PM -0700, Chris Lasher wrote: Thanks again for your responses, guys. To answer the question,the features I'd love to see in a Python IDE are: * First and foremost, Vim editing behavior. Let me keep my fingers on the homerow. I'm lazy. Point and click and CTRL + SHIFT has its moments, but text editing is not one of them. * Graphical symbolic debugger: the course I'm auditing, Software Carpentry, by Greg Wilson of University of Toronto, devoted a whole lecture to debuggers. See http://www.third-bit.com/swc/www/debugging.html . So now I want to try this crazy thing. I love the idea of being able to watch the values of variables change in realtime as the program runs, from the convenience of a little side window. I also love the concept of not having to insert debugging code into the production code--just a click in the left column and you set the debugging command. Keep the production code clean by putting the debugging commands outside the program. There are several Debugger plugins for VIm: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script_search_results.php?keywords=debuggerscript_type=order_by=ratingdirection=descendingsearch=search They may all be for GDB, but if you can do it for GDB, you can do it with VIm. Also, since you can embed the python interpreter in VIm, you should be able to have even tighter control on a python debugger than a GDB debugger. * Source browser: the ability to jump back and forth between specific blocks of code very quickly, and to see the overall layout of the file in terms of classes, methods, functions, etc. I want the big picture in a side window to keep me on task and remind me of how far I've come when I start feeling bogged down in details. There are a million and one plugins to do this, search on vim.org * Autocompletion: PythonWin by ActiveState has nice autocompletion. When I import a module, it can dive down into those namespaces and allow autocompletion on them. That's a nice, productive feature. Default part of VIm :help ctags :help completion * Usage tips/tooltips: Also something I found in PythonWin. During the writing of the method, a little tip box pops up advising me what the inputs are for a method or an instance construction for a class. Very nice, very productive. VIm 7 may support that out of the box since there were a lot of supporter votes for it: http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php I think there are some plugins that will do this for you by updating the status area. * Linux compatibility: Nothing against Microsoft, or Apple, I just like to use a Linux box more. It seems like the IDEs I've looked at have most of the features, but none do Vim. Crazy. I agree that you can do all your coding using just Vim. That's how I've been doing it. But following along with Greg Wilson's Software Carpentry has made me realize that I could be more productive using the additional, apparently now-standard tools of a good IDE. I just don't want to sacrifice productivity in in keystrokes. It just seems like a compromise programmers shouldn't have to make. the other Chris Chris Lambacher wrote: I would second that. I use Vim for editing. I find I don't need an IDE (not even for C/C++). Vim does everything I need. If I want a debugger I will use the shell debugger. Most other things can be added to Vim, though I tend to run with very few plugins. -Chris On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 05:12:30PM +, Ron Adam wrote: What features are you looking for. I think most Vim users just add what they want to Vim. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim IS a capable IDE [was Re: Vim capable IDE?]
Chris Lambacher wrote: * Usage tips/tooltips: Also something I found in PythonWin. During the writing of the method, a little tip box pops up advising me what the inputs are for a method or an instance construction for a class. Very nice, very productive. VIm 7 may support that out of the box since there were a lot of supporter votes for it: http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php It will, Omni Complete (akin to Intellisense and such) is already in the Vim 7 tree. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vim capable IDE?
Chris Lasher wrote: Hello, Is there a Python-sensitive, Linux compatible IDE out there with standard bells and whistles (source browser, symbolic debugger, etc.) but with the action-per-keystroke editing capabilities of Vim? I have failed to turn up such an IDE in my Googling and IDE project-page browsing. :-( Thanks very much in advance, Chris If you don't have religious feelings on Java (or are able to ignore them for the time being) you could try Eclipse and pydev (see pydev.sourceforge.net) I use it. I think it works well. df -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
