Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
eyntk: I have a certain affection for your videos. I'm not sure they are useful to all, but maybe interesting to some. Kudos to all who try to spread their interest and knowledge. But this is a tough and very fair and generous crowd here I believe. Its probably better to listen and participate than to just announce. Or just announce and disappear! This place is more for interaction -- asking and responding, ... and debating. I don't know the rules for announcements. At any rate, if you feel you have something useful to offer, maybe you can figure out how to do that without given the impression that you are 'carpet bagging' (an american term). Using a name (even a nickname) makes you a person. Using a company name is kind of off-putting. If your group is more than you, then by all means, have all of you participate. No problem citing the group you are working with. Email addresses are more or less free, right? Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com This is my lat post to say that eyn2k is gone and you will see us as individuals not a groug or especially not on GG. Thank you everyone for your time, whether I have personally thought it positive or not we did learn alot and appreciate thought! Though I personally (Adam), am moving to the NSW coast in 4 weeks, and it will take four weeks probably before we can return. Thank you everyone for your time, Adam A *** Please do not respond, I would like to see this thread dissapear and reintroduce myself in 4 weeks! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: *** Please do not respond, I would like to see this thread dissapear and reintroduce myself in 4 weeks! Just so you know, asking people to not respond almost never works. :) On the flip side, asking for responses often doesn't work either... ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 15:19:43 UTC+9:30, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: You are now simply arguing a negative point for no apparent reason other than you want to appear correct, I have already admitted my mistake yet you persist with negativity and vitriol, it is quiet childish. No, it isn't childish. You have admitted to some mistakes, but you persist in them. I have given up posting as eyn2k, I am not persisting and said I was making changes. calm down it takes time. Continuing to be negative toward people who continue to damage the community isn't childish, it's the correct way to maintain a community. You still have not posted a real name, Yes I have, look at my posts, you will find it, though with this level of vitriol can you blame me for being a little worried about posting my real name? you still post using Google Groups (and without fixing its messes), and frankly, the next step if you continue to behave like this is for us to just filter you out so we never see your posts again. I am just finishing this thread, as I said it will take a little time, I am trying to collaborate with more than one person. What do you mean by supporting [G]oogle, anyway? Do you mean that you think you're doing us all a favour by using Google Groups? Because you are not. There are two large schools of thought regarding GG, and one extreme minority: lots of people are either ambivalent or strongly against it, and a very VERY few people like it, and only because it's convenient *for them*. Posts gatewayed in from Google Groups break a lot of standards and conventions (there's a difference, btw), and it's not without reason that quite a few people simply block every post from that domain. If your purpose in posting is to send money Google's way, rather than to enhance the Python community, then you are definitely posting in the wrong place. ChrisA What I meant was, that people are saying I'm self serving, when the whole point of this exercise was to freely give back knowledge to the community as Python is Open Source and youtube is free. I am not earning any money and the purpose was to help others so being self serving I do not believe I am. and as + I have attended University and decided that the video series has more to offer than a University certificate in terms of knowledge. That's not saying much. as you can see, you are simply being childish, please make your posts productive. And I do agree, University was a waste of money and time as I said, hence, especially with free open source python, the knowledge should be available for free. I like exercises with videos, so that is how I returned it to the community. I do not see what your posts are intended to achieve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: You are now simply arguing a negative point for no apparent reason other than you want to appear correct, I have already admitted my mistake yet you persist with negativity and vitriol, it is quiet childish. Observers will judge the difference between vitriol, compared with calm criticism of actions. If you see criticism as “negativity and vitriol”, you'll need to reconsider whether you want to take part in an online discussion forum. -- \ “Working out the social politics of who you can trust and why | `\ is, quite literally, what a very large part of our brain has | _o__) evolved to do.” —Douglas Adams | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Aug 20, 2014 9:51 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: I will post updates on one Post so as not to create new posts and I am not making any money from this, also google owns youtube so I am only helping google the owner of this Forum? Google does not own or control this forum. The comp.lang.python group is part of Usenet, which is not owned by anybody. The group is also bridged to the python-list mailing list hosted by the Python Software Foundation. The Google group is just a mirror of the Usenet group. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:33:19 UTC+9:30, Ian wrote: On Aug 20, 2014 9:51 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: I will post updates on one Post so as not to create new posts and I am not making any money from this, also google owns youtube so I am only helping google the owner of this Forum? Google does not own or control this forum. The comp.lang.python group is part of Usenet, which is not owned by anybody. The group is also bridged to the python-list mailing list hosted by the Python Software Foundation. The Google group is just a mirror of the Usenet group. O! that was a BIG misunderstanding of mine then, and I will seek to rectify this again. It is important that we admit our mistakes And I will no longer be posting to this thread, It is simply going to be people calling me obnoxious and me calling them childish in and infinite loop! CTRL + C someone please -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:33:19 UTC+9:30, Ian wrote: Google does not own or control this forum. The comp.lang.python group is part of Usenet, which is not owned by anybody. The group is also bridged to the python-list mailing list hosted by the Python Software Foundation. The Google group is just a mirror of the Usenet group. O! that was a BIG misunderstanding of mine then, and I will seek to rectify this again. Thanks again for learning, I hope to see better participation soon. -- \ “Here is a test to see if your mission on earth is finished. If | `\ you are alive, it isn't.” —Francis Bacon | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: On Thursday, 21 August 2014 15:19:43 UTC+9:30, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: You are now simply arguing a negative point for no apparent reason other than you want to appear correct, I have already admitted my mistake yet you persist with negativity and vitriol, it is quiet childish. No, it isn't childish. You have admitted to some mistakes, but you persist in them. I have given up posting as eyn2k, I am not persisting and said I was making changes. calm down it takes time. Considering that this post also comes from eyn2k, and also doesn't have a real name on it, I don't think your statement can be called true. Continuing to be negative toward people who continue to damage the community isn't childish, it's the correct way to maintain a community. You still have not posted a real name, Yes I have, look at my posts, you will find it, though with this level of vitriol can you blame me for being a little worried about posting my real name? 1) You're not signing your posts. A post back in your history giving just a first name doesn't equate to actually signing your posts with your real name. We still don't know you from A-- err, from anyone else named Adam. 2) Why should the tone of posts here make you worried about posting your real name? Especially when part of that tone is specifically because you don't. Trust comes from honesty, not from hiding. + I have attended University and decided that the video series has more to offer than a University certificate in terms of knowledge. That's not saying much. as you can see, you are simply being childish, please make your posts productive. And I do agree, University was a waste of money and time as I said, hence, especially with free open source python, the knowledge should be available for free. I like exercises with videos, so that is how I returned it to the community. I do not see what your posts are intended to achieve If you have a problem with my extremely mild (in that example) criticism of the value of university, you'd best not hang around any public discussion forum. Good luck with life. You'll need it, if you keep going like this. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 16:20:29 UTC+9:30, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: On Thursday, 21 August 2014 15:19:43 UTC+9:30, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: You are now simply arguing a negative point for no apparent reason other than you want to appear correct, I have already admitted my mistake yet you persist with negativity and vitriol, it is quiet childish. No, it isn't childish. You have admitted to some mistakes, but you persist in them. I have given up posting as eyn2k, I am not persisting and said I was making changes. calm down it takes time. Considering that this post also comes from eyn2k, and also doesn't have a real name on it, I don't think your statement can be called true. Continuing to be negative toward people who continue to damage the community isn't childish, it's the correct way to maintain a community. You still have not posted a real name, Yes I have, look at my posts, you will find it, though with this level of vitriol can you blame me for being a little worried about posting my real name? 1) You're not signing your posts. A post back in your history giving just a first name doesn't equate to actually signing your posts with your real name. We still don't know you from A-- err, from anyone else named Adam. 2) Why should the tone of posts here make you worried about posting your real name? Especially when part of that tone is specifically because you don't. Trust comes from honesty, not from hiding. + I have attended University and decided that the video series has more to offer than a University certificate in terms of knowledge. That's not saying much. as you can see, you are simply being childish, please make your posts productive. And I do agree, University was a waste of money and time as I said, hence, especially with free open source python, the knowledge should be available for free. I like exercises with videos, so that is how I returned it to the community. I do not see what your posts are intended to achieve If you have a problem with my extremely mild (in that example) criticism of the value of university, you'd best not hang around any public discussion forum. Good luck with life. You'll need it, if you keep going like this. ChrisA I have answered all these questions already! stop wasting time -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 8/20/2014 11:36 AM, Everything You Need To Know wrote: Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results! less than 3 minutes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlDjl5JK0eUfeature=youtu.be Dear EYNToK (Adam Nowak?, the name on the video?): I am both a long-term participant in this group and currently one of the behind-the-scenes moderators. Here are the mistakes you made. 0. You posted from Google Groups. 0a. GG is the source of at least half the spam targeted at python-list, including the stuff that gets caught and discarded by me or another moderator. Google gives the appearance of being indifferent to being spam source #1. Or maybe they see it as a mark of success somehow. 0b. By default, GG does not follow normal and reasonable protocols. Google is obviously indifferent to that. At one time in the past, Google would have been cut off from usenet groups for GG's behavior. Now Google is too big and powerful and hence arrogant. 0c. Some posters, when requested, change the defaults as requested and instructed. Some do not, thereby asking to be ignored. 1. A pseudonym, but not just a pseudonym, but one that could be interpreted as intentionally obnoxious and 'in our faces', such as used by trolls. I realize that as a newcomer, you don't know the history, but it affects people who have been around awhile. 2. Slightly deceptive subject line, to your detriment. The video is about simulating indefinite precision long division with python. This is a quite legitimate beginner exercise. The 1/998001 example is just an illustration of the value of being able to get more than 18 decimal digits. 3. The form of your post! It screams 'I am spam!' Judgment in 3 seconds! In sum, if this post had been presented to me by the spam filter for action, and I had acted without viewing the video, especially late at night when tired, I might have deleted it. Having watched the video, I now know that would have been a mistake. As Steven said, properly formatted occasional announcements of free python-related resources are on-topic. (If we got multiple such announcements every day, we might change the rules.) I agree with the rest of his excellent post. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 16:55:44 UTC+9:30, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/20/2014 11:36 AM, Everything You Need To Know wrote: Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results! less than 3 minutes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlDjl5JK0eUfeature=youtu.be Dear EYNToK (Adam Nowak?, the name on the video?): I am both a long-term participant in this group and currently one of the behind-the-scenes moderators. Here are the mistakes you made. 0. You posted from Google Groups. 0a. GG is the source of at least half the spam targeted at python-list, including the stuff that gets caught and discarded by me or another moderator. Google gives the appearance of being indifferent to being spam source #1. Or maybe they see it as a mark of success somehow. 0b. By default, GG does not follow normal and reasonable protocols. Google is obviously indifferent to that. At one time in the past, Google would have been cut off from usenet groups for GG's behavior. Now Google is too big and powerful and hence arrogant. 0c. Some posters, when requested, change the defaults as requested and instructed. Some do not, thereby asking to be ignored. 1. A pseudonym, but not just a pseudonym, but one that could be interpreted as intentionally obnoxious and 'in our faces', such as used by trolls. I realize that as a newcomer, you don't know the history, but it affects people who have been around awhile. 2. Slightly deceptive subject line, to your detriment. The video is about simulating indefinite precision long division with python. This is a quite legitimate beginner exercise. The 1/998001 example is just an illustration of the value of being able to get more than 18 decimal digits. 3. The form of your post! It screams 'I am spam!' Judgment in 3 seconds! In sum, if this post had been presented to me by the spam filter for action, and I had acted without viewing the video, especially late at night when tired, I might have deleted it. Having watched the video, I now know that would have been a mistake. As Steven said, properly formatted occasional announcements of free python-related resources are on-topic. (If we got multiple such announcements every day, we might change the rules.) I agree with the rest of his excellent post. -- Terry Jan Reedy Well said -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 21/08/2014 03:07, Everything You Need To Know wrote: You'd make more friends here if you weren't suffering from google groups disease, which seems to be spreading like wildfire at the moment. To cure this terrible affliction please access this list via https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list or read and action this https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython to prevent us seeing double line spacing and single line paragraphs, thanks. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 21/08/2014 07:09, Everything You Need To Know wrote: I am just finishing this thread, as I said it will take a little time, I am trying to collaborate with more than one person. You are certainly very trying. I see no evidence of collaboration. I also see no evidence of the vitriol you keep mentioning. You have three options. 1) Carry on the way you are and get plonked. 2) Change and be accepted. Take your pick. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 21/08/2014 07:52, Everything You Need To Know wrote: I have answered all these questions already! stop wasting time I entirely agree, stop wasting time. Hardly surprising you didn't get on at uni as that involves engaging with people. You can't take the mildest criticism and refuse to change, with the dread google groups conspicious throughout your posts. Much more of this and I'll be reaching for the plonk key. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: I do understand where you are coming from 'Chris Kwpolska Warrick', though, your own self serving link to your own website and unproductive post is closer to spam than my own, I offer something practical and positive to the community, even if the wrong community to post. You are speaking of the link in the signature. Signatures are not considered “content”. You weren’t forced to read the signature, you could’ve stopped at the dash-dash-space line; hell: modern e-mail clients would helpfully hide this, or change its color, or in a different way state “signature — no need to care”. Unlike you, I haven’t just posted “read this amazing blog post! only 500 words! it does not explain things thoroughly!” in a way that many spam filters would (or should) catch. In fact, I never posted a thing to promote my blog to this list in my life. Besides, this is a discussion list — announcements would fit the announcement list better (comp.lang.python.announce on usenet/python-announce as ML). On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: If you think it is spam (or at least borderline), perhaps you should not quote the url and provide links to the content? Oh, sorry. I forgot to edit and just had the message reproduced verbatim. -- Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick http://chriswarrick.com/ PGP: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 21/08/2014 08:40, Everything You Need To Know wrote: On Thursday, 21 August 2014 16:55:44 UTC+9:30, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/20/2014 11:36 AM, Everything You Need To Know wrote: Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results! less than 3 minutes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlDjl5JK0eUfeature=youtu.be Dear EYNToK (Adam Nowak?, the name on the video?): I am both a long-term participant in this group and currently one of the behind-the-scenes moderators. Here are the mistakes you made. 0. You posted from Google Groups. 0a. GG is the source of at least half the spam targeted at python-list, including the stuff that gets caught and discarded by me or another moderator. Google gives the appearance of being indifferent to being spam source #1. Or maybe they see it as a mark of success somehow. 0b. By default, GG does not follow normal and reasonable protocols. Google is obviously indifferent to that. At one time in the past, Google would have been cut off from usenet groups for GG's behavior. Now Google is too big and powerful and hence arrogant. 0c. Some posters, when requested, change the defaults as requested and instructed. Some do not, thereby asking to be ignored. 1. A pseudonym, but not just a pseudonym, but one that could be interpreted as intentionally obnoxious and 'in our faces', such as used by trolls. I realize that as a newcomer, you don't know the history, but it affects people who have been around awhile. 2. Slightly deceptive subject line, to your detriment. The video is about simulating indefinite precision long division with python. This is a quite legitimate beginner exercise. The 1/998001 example is just an illustration of the value of being able to get more than 18 decimal digits. 3. The form of your post! It screams 'I am spam!' Judgment in 3 seconds! In sum, if this post had been presented to me by the spam filter for action, and I had acted without viewing the video, especially late at night when tired, I might have deleted it. Having watched the video, I now know that would have been a mistake. As Steven said, properly formatted occasional announcements of free python-related resources are on-topic. (If we got multiple such announcements every day, we might change the rules.) I agree with the rest of his excellent post. -- Terry Jan Reedy Well said Glad to see that you took it on board. Except that you're still using google groups. I'm not interested in trying to read posts when they're in the appalling formatting above. Please take steps to rectify the situation or go away, your choice. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 01:06:37 UTC+9:30, Everything You Need To Know wrote: These exercises were all linked together to make a 'python' board game, Thought it was really neat myself. This is something that would not interest this Forum I am to presume? Thank you Adam A -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out. People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily so. Adam (Everything You Need To Know) has perhaps posted unwisely and clumsily, but obnoxiously? Obnoxious (noun): very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible. What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations thrown at him: - his fancy video is too simple for the skilled Python programmers at this forum and is barely original; - he posted using a self-aggrandising name instead of his real name; - he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!); - his post is spam (commercial, unsolicited advertising); - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual. And that's pretty much it. I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is obnoxious or that it is spam. It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct, if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post was obnoxious and that his post is not appropriate just because it is hosted on YouTube? This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a community have been welcoming to Adam? - We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like failing to sign his post with a name. - We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we accept their right to do so without question. - We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube. - We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking for others without their consent, by insisting that most of us here are too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video. Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us. But we should have engaged with him too: - we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a spammer; - we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist; - we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive; - or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos; - we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it; - and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going on the attack as we did. Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated welcome. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
This man is crazy , he go on to send rubbish to waste our time ,i strongly strongly advise that python maillist administrator kick him off here. On 8/21/2014 9:25 PM, Everything You Need To Know wrote: On Thursday, 21 August 2014 01:06:37 UTC+9:30, Everything You Need To Know wrote: These exercises were all linked together to make a 'python' board game, Thought it was really neat myself. This is something that would not interest this Forum I am to presume? Thank you Adam A -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 2014-08-21, luofeiyu elearn2...@gmail.com wrote: This man is crazy, he go on to send rubbish to waste our time ,i strongly strongly advise that python maillist administrator kick him off here. He's not wasting my time -- I filter out all posts from Google Groups. What I do see is all of the responses. Perhaps I should filter out posts that have googlegroups.com in the References: header... -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! How's the wife? at Is she at home enjoying gmail.comcapitalism? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 8/21/2014 9:37 AM, luofeiyu wrote: This man is crazy Such ad hominem slurs are a violation to the Python Community Code of Conduct. he go on to send rubbish to waste our time , Everyone should stop bashing each other, including you. What I see is people driving each other a bit crazy, and I would like it to stop. i strongly strongly advise that python maillist administrator I am one of them. kick him off here. This is a last resort, not first. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 8/21/2014 12:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out. People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily so. Adam (Everything You Need To Know) has perhaps posted unwisely and clumsily, but obnoxiously? Obnoxious (noun): very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible. What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations thrown at him: - his fancy video is too simple for the skilled Python programmers at this forum and is barely original; - he posted using a self-aggrandising name instead of his real name; - he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!); - his post is spam (commercial, unsolicited advertising); - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual. And that's pretty much it. I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is obnoxious or that it is spam. It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct, if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post was obnoxious and that his post is not appropriate just because it is hosted on YouTube? This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a community have been welcoming to Adam? - We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like failing to sign his post with a name. - We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we accept their right to do so without question. - We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube. - We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking for others without their consent, by insisting that most of us here are too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video. Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us. But we should have engaged with him too: - we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a spammer; - we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist; - we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive; - or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos; - we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it; - and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going on the attack as we did. Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated welcome. Thank you for posting this Steven. As a list admin, I pretty much agree with everything you said. Some people are caught in a negative feedback cycle and all should step out of it and stop. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info writes: Adam (Everything You Need To Know) has perhaps posted unwisely and clumsily, but obnoxiously? Obnoxious (noun): very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible. What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations thrown at him: - he posted using a self-aggrandising name instead of his real name; Using one's real name is helpful, but choosing not to is not obnoxious. Using a name that is clearly not naming a person, and instead is a marketing name for one's site elsewhere, is odious and reprehensible because it approaches this community as no more than a market for one-way messages. - his post is spam (commercial, unsolicited advertising); Spam does not entail commercial; religious screeds that have no commercial nature can qualify, for example. His posts, repeatedly giving a link to a video and contributing to no on-topic discussion, are unsolicited bulk messages. That's spam. - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual. No, he posted *as the group*, and his explanations made it clear that he did not intend to engage as an individual. That's obnoxious in a community discussion forum. I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is obnoxious or that it is spam. It is clearly on-topic. I'm one of many who disagree. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Engaging a person with specific details on how their behaviour is objectionable, and specific requests on how to improve, demonstrates hope and optimism that the person can contribute positively. I don't accept the claim of closed-mindedness. Hostility? Yes, I'm hostile to behaviour which has already descended to disrespecting the purpose of this community forum. That doesn't extend to hostility to a person, though I understand it can be difficult for the person to see the difference at the time their behaviour is criticised. Ben, I believe that your behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct, if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post was obnoxious and that his post is not appropriate just because it is hosted on YouTube? Yes, I have respectfully explained at length to Adam why I'm criticising his behaviour. I have not, AFAIK, given any cause to think I lack respect for Adam as a person — indeed, one of my main criticisms is that Adam should engage *as a person*. I also respect Adam enough to recognise that he's likely to be able to learn what was objectionable about his behaviour and improve it. This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a community have been welcoming to Adam? When the initial engagement is a continuous repeating of the same disrespectful behaviour, and it continues oblivious to requests to correct the mistakes, I think the welcome has worn out. We are not obligated to endure everything, and respect for all the *other* persons here is also needed and entailed in the Code of Conduct. -- \“[It's] best to confuse only one issue at a time.” —Brian W. | `\ Kernighan, Dennis M. Ritchie, _The C programming language_, 1988 | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 21/08/2014 22:15, Ben Finney wrote: Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info writes: [War and Peace snipped] Frankly I think this entire debate has rapidly descended to the level of farce. Can we move on please? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Friday, August 22, 2014 1:45:23 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/21/2014 12:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know writes: I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out. People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily so. Adam (Everything You Need To Know) has perhaps posted unwisely and clumsily, but obnoxiously? Obnoxious (noun): very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible. What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations thrown at him: - his fancy video is too simple for the skilled Python programmers at this forum and is barely original; - he posted using a self-aggrandising name instead of his real name; - he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!); - his post is spam (commercial, unsolicited advertising); - he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual. And that's pretty much it. I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is obnoxious or that it is spam. It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct, if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post was obnoxious and that his post is not appropriate just because it is hosted on YouTube? This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a community have been welcoming to Adam? - We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like failing to sign his post with a name. - We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we accept their right to do so without question. - We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube. - We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking for others without their consent, by insisting that most of us here are too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video. Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us. But we should have engaged with him too: - we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a spammer; - we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist; - we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive; - or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos; - we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it; - and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going on the attack as we did. Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated welcome. Thank you for posting this Steven. As a list admin, I pretty much agree with everything you said. Some people are caught in a negative feedback cycle and all should step out of it and stop. Thanks Steven, Terry for that. I would like to add: Often behavior that is labeled obnoxious comes from people who have no clue about it. Google groups is a typical example because GG works (kinda) for people who use GG. IOW GG hides its own problems; whereas it hits other users. [I had no idea that the long lines is an issue until rurpy pointed it out] In this case the additional gaffe in the same direction is that python-list is owned by Google(!!). Adam: I do request you once again to read and 'action'¹ https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython -- ¹ Am I the only one who finds nouns used as verbs obnoxious?wink -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 7:07:36 PM UTC+5:30, luofeiyu wrote: This man is crazy , he go on to send rubbish to waste our time ,i strongly strongly advise that python maillist administrator kick him off here. On 8/21/2014 9:25 PM, Everything You Need To Know wrote: On Thursday, 21 August 2014 01:06:37 UTC+9:30, Everything You Need To Know wrote: These exercises were all linked together to make a 'python' board game, Thought it was really neat myself. This is something that would not interest this Forum I am to presume? Thank you Adam A I suggest you compute the product: OT-ness * quantity And look for a mirror. This very post is a top-post -- not to mention grammar and punctuation issues. Obnoxious? Not usually. But can become when the quantity-multiplier of barely python-related posts swells to a barrage. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Friday, 22 August 2014 06:45:07 UTC+9:30, Ben Finney wrote: When the initial engagement is a continuous repeating of the same disrespectful behaviour, and it continues oblivious to requests to correct the mistakes, I think the welcome has worn out. We are not obligated to endure everything, and respect for all the *other* persons here is also needed and entailed in the Code of Conduct. Like your comment here, you simply have far too much time on your hand! Learn from your own words and stop saying the same thing over and over, it is like talking to a brick wall. I admitted my mistake, and am looking at this GG thing today, the link previous said I could clean my text, this doesn't seem to work. I am only using this account while still on this topic so GG is gone. Hostility? Yes Get over yourself and grow up! this was my second post, you have not even given me a chance or time! watch that link and remember godlike programmers only cause problems! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c keep programming fun! and I'm sorry I couldn't help myself here: You have three options. 1) Carry on the way you are and get plonked. 2) Change and be accepted. you only let me choose between two! that was funny! could go on but no point, just ask what your comments are going to achieve before the post -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Amusing. It works in hexadecimal too: numerator = 1 denominator = 0xffe001 shift = int(16 ** 30) print(hex(int(numerator * shift / denominator))) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: On Friday, 22 August 2014 06:45:07 UTC+9:30, Ben Finney wrote: When the initial engagement is a continuous repeating of the same disrespectful behaviour, and it continues oblivious to requests to correct the mistakes, I think the welcome has worn out. We are not obligated to endure everything, and respect for all the *other* persons here is also needed and entailed in the Code of Conduct. Like your comment here, you simply have far too much time on your hand! Learn from your own words and stop saying the same thing over and over, it is like talking to a brick wall. I admitted my mistake, and am looking at this GG thing today, the link previous said I could clean my text, this doesn't seem to work. I am only using this account while still on this topic so GG is gone. Hostility? Yes Get over yourself and grow up! this was my second post, you have not even given me a chance or time! watch that link and remember godlike programmers only cause problems! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c keep programming fun! and I'm sorry I couldn't help myself here: You have three options. 1) Carry on the way you are and get plonked. 2) Change and be accepted. you only let me choose between two! that was funny! could go on but no point, just ask what your comments are going to achieve before the post -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list eyntk: I have a certain affection for your videos. I'm not sure they are useful to all, but maybe interesting to some. Kudos to all who try to spread their interest and knowledge. But this is a tough and very fair and generous crowd here I believe. Its probably better to listen and participate than to just announce. Or just announce and disappear! This place is more for interaction -- asking and responding, ... and debating. I don't know the rules for announcements. At any rate, if you feel you have something useful to offer, maybe you can figure out how to do that without given the impression that you are 'carpet bagging' (an american term). Using a name (even a nickname) makes you a person. Using a company name is kind of off-putting. If your group is more than you, then by all means, have all of you participate. No problem citing the group you are working with. Email addresses are more or less free, right? -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On 22/08/2014 00:28, Joel Goldstick wrote: I don't know the rules for announcements. https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list also available through gmane.comp.python.announce -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results! less than 3 minutes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlDjl5JK0eUfeature=youtu.be -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Most subscribers are already skilled Python programmers and do not care about your fancy tutorials. Especially because they are video tutorials, which are the worst way to learn anything — especially programming. Also, if someone really cares about the division, they can just watch the original Numberphile video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daro6K6mym8 or any other sane source — and not reproduce it with this weird division scheme. Your video does not tell a thing about the number anyway. Please stop spamming with your barely original content. -- Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick http://chriswarrick.com/ PGP: 5EAAEA16 stop html mail | always bottom-post | only UTF-8 makes sense -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick wrote: On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results! less than 3 minutes! [url redacted] [...] Please stop spamming with your barely original content. If you think it is spam (or at least borderline), perhaps you should not quote the url and provide links to the content? -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 08:38:16 UTC+9:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Chris Kwpolska Warrick wrote: On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: Neat little exercise, surprisingly cool results! less than 3 minutes! [url redacted] [...] Please stop spamming with your barely original content. If you think it is spam (or at least borderline), perhaps you should not quote the url and provide links to the content? -- Steven Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were quiet original and still offer interesting results. In the case of the Mandelbrot set or this one here, I was trying to make programming fun which is an idea I believe lost since early programming generations, and both can be achieved with absolutely minimal knowledge making it fun to learn. I do understand where you are coming from 'Chris Kwpolska Warrick', though, your own self serving link to your own website and unproductive post is closer to spam than my own, I offer something practical and positive to the community, even if the wrong community to post. Also the, Most subscribers are already skilled Python is a generalization and to speak for everyone is not fair. Where else can I post these if not to a 'forum' regarding the given subject? I am by definition working productively with this forum, engaging with an audience, which has so far mutually benefited us both, as I have already taken requests for tutorials. And once more Especially because they are video tutorials, which are the worst way to learn anything -- especially programming. - this argument is simply invalid. No evidence can be offered to back this and some people learn better visualize as I did, because I started in a 3D graphical background, I almost needed to visualize Tuples as x, y, z co-ordinates to grasp them properly from he start. Everyone is different and we should celebrate different approaches! + I have attended University and decided that the video series has more to offer than a University certificate in terms of knowledge. Thank you for your time -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: I offer something practical and positive to the community, even if the wrong community to post. You choose to offer it with a self-aggrandising name instead of your real name, which is itself an obnoxious habit. The links themselves are, as you acknowledge, not appropriate to this discussion forum, they are a blatant attempt to drive traffic to your site instead of having a useful discussion here. I am by definition working productively with this forum, engaging with an audience, which has so far mutually benefited us both, as I have already taken requests for tutorials. No, you are not working with this forum. Your posts are not aiding discussion here, they are advertisements for your channel elsewhere. Please don't. -- \ “[F]reedom of speech does not entail freedom to have your ideas | `\accepted by governments and incorporated into law and policy.” | _o__) —Russell Blackford, 2010-03-06 | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: + I have attended University and decided that the video series has more to offer than a University certificate in terms of knowledge. That's not saying much. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 11:05:51 UTC+9:30, Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: I offer something practical and positive to the community, even if the wrong community to post. You choose to offer it with a self-aggrandising name instead of your real name, which is itself an obnoxious habit. The links themselves are, as you acknowledge, not appropriate to this discussion forum, they are a blatant attempt to drive traffic to your site instead of having a useful discussion here. I am by definition working productively with this forum, engaging with an audience, which has so far mutually benefited us both, as I have already taken requests for tutorials. No, you are not working with this forum. Your posts are not aiding discussion here, they are advertisements for your channel elsewhere. Please don't. -- \ [F]reedom of speech does not entail freedom to have your ideas | `\accepted by governments and incorporated into law and policy. | _o__) --Russell Blackford, 2010-03-06 | Ben Finney You choose to offer it with a self-aggrandising name instead of your real name, which is itself an obnoxious habit. This is because I am hoping, the other members currently creatign tutorials will be posting and responding to people as well. It is not just one person here! To give my name when we are trying to be a small group would not work. I am by definition working productively with this forum, engaging with an audience, which has so far mutually benefited us both, as I have already taken requests for tutorials. There are links to the video yes, though there is no way to post the video here so I do not have a choice... What would you do in my situation... You are currently working 10 hours a day to help an open-source community which I have learnt from over the years. Free videos, wikis and forums have been the conduit from which I learnt from (Uni was a waste of time). If my goal is to offer something back to the community (and teach for free what cost lots of money at university), and I am covering more advanced topics as we speak. Do I now have to work more hours, create my own web site as well and own forums for given topics and discussions. This is currently just not possible since I am basically poor because of University and spending 10 hours a day producing videos and trying to maintain a household. I did look up the definition of a Forum and the goals of this forum community, and I did not see anything wrong. Productive suggestions would be helpful, so far productive comments have been quiet absent and more 'nasty and immature'. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:22:01 -0700, Everything You Need To Know wrote: Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were quiet original and still offer interesting results. [...] You will find less hostility if you attempt to engage with the community rather than just dump a link on us. Giving a real name or alias is a good start: calling you Everything You Need To Know is tacky. At the very least, you should sign your posts with the name or alias you wish to be known by. Although some people may not like it, self-promotion is not prohibited here, provided it is relevant to Python, that your posts are not misleading or deceitful in any way, and you don't flood the channel with noise. My recommendation is: - For preference, you should be a regular poster in the community, answering questions (or even asking questions!) often enough that people will recognise you. - If you are not a regular, you should take the time to engage with the rest of the community. This is a community, not just a place to advertise, so the polite thing to do is at least to say hello. Who are you, what is your background in Python, what do you have to offer us, why should we follow your link? - A very common convention in Usenet and email circles is to label announcements like this with [Announce] at the start of the subject line. Something like this would probably be more acceptable: Subject: [Announce] Short Python video about the Mandelbrot set From: Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com Hi, I'm Fred, the author of the Everything You Need To Know channel on Youtube. I have a 3 minute video about Python programming aimed at beginners: What do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results If you're interested in Python programming or the Mandelbrot set, you might like my videos. Thank you, Fred You should also be prepared to stick around long enough to answer any questions (or criticism!). Good luck, -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 8:06:44 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:22:01 -0700, Everything You Need To Know wrote: Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were quiet original and still offer interesting results. [...] You will find less hostility if you attempt to engage with the community rather than just dump a link on us. Giving a real name or alias is a good start: calling you Everything You Need To Know is tacky. At the very least, you should sign your posts with the name or alias you wish to be known by. Although some people may not like it, self-promotion is not prohibited here, provided it is relevant to Python, that your posts are not misleading or deceitful in any way, and you don't flood the channel with noise. My recommendation is: - For preference, you should be a regular poster in the community, answering questions (or even asking questions!) often enough that people will recognise you. - If you are not a regular, you should take the time to engage with the rest of the community. This is a community, not just a place to advertise, so the polite thing to do is at least to say hello. Who are you, what is your background in Python, what do you have to offer us, why should we follow your link? - A very common convention in Usenet and email circles is to label announcements like this with [Announce] at the start of the subject line. Something like this would probably be more acceptable: Subject: [Announce] Short Python video about the Mandelbrot set Hi, I'm Fred, the author of the Everything You Need To Know channel on Youtube. I have a 3 minute video about Python programming aimed at beginners: What do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results If you're interested in Python programming or the Mandelbrot set, you might like my videos. Thank you, Fred You should also be prepared to stick around long enough to answer any questions (or criticism!). And to add to what Steven said: Please read https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython Out here your stock goes down when you dont do the due diligence described therein -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 12:06:44 UTC+9:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:22:01 -0700, Everything You Need To Know wrote: Thank you Steven, I thought most of the exercises I have posted were quiet original and still offer interesting results. [...] You will find less hostility if you attempt to engage with the community rather than just dump a link on us. Giving a real name or alias is a good start: calling you Everything You Need To Know is tacky. At the very least, you should sign your posts with the name or alias you wish to be known by. Although some people may not like it, self-promotion is not prohibited here, provided it is relevant to Python, that your posts are not misleading or deceitful in any way, and you don't flood the channel with noise. I will post updates on one Post so as not to create new posts and I am not making any money from this, also google owns youtube so I am only helping google the owner of this Forum? My recommendation is: - For preference, you should be a regular poster in the community, answering questions (or even asking questions!) often enough that people will recognise you. Thank you, I am considering how best to approach this with the other members. Originally we were going to share an account so we could engage from one account. Perhaps, as you have suggested, it would merely save some hostility if we did not share an account in the name of eyn2k and posted individually. Though I thought this might generate more hostility, having multiple members posting in one frame of mind I thought would generate a more biased view and slow creativity. - If you are not a regular, you should take the time to engage with the rest of the community. This is a community, not just a place to advertise, so the polite thing to do is at least to say hello. Who are you, what is your background in Python, what do you have to offer us, why should we follow your link? Only now that we have a decent playlist (39 videos), did we think we are ready to start engaging, and wish to do so. I have personally set three days a week, a number of hours per day, simply to engage with an audience (though can check more regularly hopefully) - A very common convention in Usenet and email circles is to label announcements like this with [Announce] at the start of the subject line. Something like this would probably be more acceptable: Subject: [Announce] Short Python video about the Mandelbrot set From: Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com Hi, I'm Fred, the author of the Everything You Need To Know channel on Youtube. I have a 3 minute video about Python programming aimed at beginners: What do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results If you're interested in Python programming or the Mandelbrot set, you might like my videos. Thank you, Fred Definately! My original post I will admit was a little lazy, I was up until 2 am waiting for the video to upload and was really tired, these late nights have to be stopped I am moving to the country. My internet in Australia is one of my current biggest hurdles, uploading is terrible. You should also be prepared to stick around long enough to answer any questions (or criticism!). I will try to productive engage with the audience Good luck, -- Steven Thank you Steven, I value your comments highly. Adam -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: It is not just one person here! To give my name when we are trying to be a small group would not work. That's not how a community operates. Please post as an individual, with a person's name, to establish your reputation and continuity. Others can post as themselves. We don't need organisations posting as if they were a person with one mind. What would you do in my situation... Deal with a community of individuals *as* an individual. Deal with a discussion forum by starting *discussions* in that forum. Consider, every time, the relevance of your message to a *discussion forum* for the community primarily. Do I now have to work more hours, create my own web site as well and own forums for given topics and discussions. Your work expended so far imposes no obligation on us to endure your spam. Please engage with this community rather than seeing us as a market for your product — or don't engage at all. -- \ “To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you | `\must also be well-mannered.” —Voltaire | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:09:45 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know writes: It is not just one person here! To give my name when we are trying to be a small group would not work. That's not how a community operates. Please post as an individual, with a person's name, to establish your reputation and continuity. Others can post as themselves. We don't need organisations posting as if they were a person with one mind. Let me try to put it another way: We are a community of individuals not of corporations, even 'informal' corporations. Your entry here as an individual is welcome; as a corporation its out of place What would you do in my situation... Deal with a community of individuals *as* an individual. Deal with a discussion forum by starting *discussions* in that forum. Consider, every time, the relevance of your message to a *discussion forum* for the community primarily. Do I now have to work more hours, create my own web site as well and own forums for given topics and discussions. Your work expended so far imposes no obligation on us to endure your spam. Please engage with this community rather than seeing us as a market for your product -- or don't engage at all. I find this excessively and unnecessarily harsh -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:19:27 UTC+9:30, Rustom Mody wrote: On Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:09:45 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know writes: It is not just one person here! To give my name when we are trying to be a small group would not work. That's not how a community operates. Please post as an individual, with a person's name, to establish your reputation and continuity. Others can post as themselves. We don't need organisations posting as if they were a person with one mind. Let me try to put it another way: We are a community of individuals not of corporations, even 'informal' corporations. Your entry here as an individual is welcome; as a corporation its out of place I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! Just thought it was in best interest if we posted as one rather than individuals, if we had each other agreeing with one another it by accident or other, it would add extra sway to an individual point of view as we are sharing it. When conversations become unproductive I simply remember this talk which I have watched a number of times... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c and just try to keep programming fun! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out. We regard this community highly, and when obnoxious behaviour occurs, emotive responses are to be expected. Thank you for acknowledge the mistake, and in advance for working to improve. Just thought it was in best interest if we posted as one rather than individuals, if we had each other agreeing with one another it by accident or other, it would add extra sway to an individual point of view as we are sharing it. Remember that this is a forum for discussion, for benefit of the Python community. Not specially for the benefit of any organisation. If there's a position relevant to be expressed here, and your organisation all agrees on that position, there's no need for dozens of people to repeat it — one person can say it. But it's harmful for community participation if that person's individual identity is shrouded behind a corporate name. It's important that any individual's words are accountable over time to an individual's name. If your messages are so unlike community discussion that you feel the need to portray them as coming from a corporate entity instead of an individual open to further discussion, please consider that such messages are likely of little value to a community discussion forum. -- \“None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love | `\ not freedom, but license.” —John Milton | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:38:04 AM UTC+5:30, Everything You Need To Know wrote: | On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:19:27 UTC+9:30, Rustom Mody wrote: | | | On Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:09:45 AM UTC+5:30, Ben Finney wrote: | | | | | | | | Everything You Need To Know writes: | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | It is not just one person here! To give my name when we are trying to | | | | | | | | be a small group would not work. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | That's not how a community operates. Please post as an individual, with | | | | | | | | a person's name, to establish your reputation and continuity. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Others can post as themselves. We don't need organisations posting as if | | | | | | | | they were a person with one mind. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Let me try to put it another way: We are a community of individuals | | | | | | | | not of corporations, even 'informal' corporations. | | | | | | | | Your entry here as an individual is welcome; as a corporation its | | | | | | | | out of place | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! Just thought it was in best interest if we posted as one rather than individuals, if we had each other agreeing with one another it by accident or other, it would add extra sway to an individual point of view as we are sharing it. Ok here's a suggestion: Post with your 'collective' login Sign with your individual 'Real' name.¹ Also note you are not yet following the suggestions: https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython TO show you how your post looks to others here, Ive changed the '' to '|' -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thursday, 21 August 2014 14:56:13 UTC+9:30, Ben Finney wrote: Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com writes: I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found unnecessary and unproductive! You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out. Yes I did point out I made a mistake, though it was in the best interest of this forum that I made that mistake and as I mentioned. I am supporting google because they own youtube and I have advertisements allowed on for their interest not mine, monetisation is not on. You are now simply arguing a negative point for no apparent reason other than you want to appear correct, I have already admitted my mistake yet you persist with negativity and vitriol, it is quiet childish. please watch this linked video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c might lighten you up a little -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what do you get with 1 divide by 998001, interesting results
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Everything You Need To Know ey...@outlook.com wrote: You are now simply arguing a negative point for no apparent reason other than you want to appear correct, I have already admitted my mistake yet you persist with negativity and vitriol, it is quiet childish. No, it isn't childish. You have admitted to some mistakes, but you persist in them. Continuing to be negative toward people who continue to damage the community isn't childish, it's the correct way to maintain a community. You still have not posted a real name, you still post using Google Groups (and without fixing its messes), and frankly, the next step if you continue to behave like this is for us to just filter you out so we never see your posts again. What do you mean by supporting [G]oogle, anyway? Do you mean that you think you're doing us all a favour by using Google Groups? Because you are not. There are two large schools of thought regarding GG, and one extreme minority: lots of people are either ambivalent or strongly against it, and a very VERY few people like it, and only because it's convenient *for them*. Posts gatewayed in from Google Groups break a lot of standards and conventions (there's a difference, btw), and it's not without reason that quite a few people simply block every post from that domain. If your purpose in posting is to send money Google's way, rather than to enhance the Python community, then you are definitely posting in the wrong place. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
