Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Gary Nutbeam]

Learning Ruby to use Rails is tempting.

Iwan van der Kleyn wrote:

> Gary Nutbeam wrote:
>> needing to learn Ruby.
> 
> But why wouldn't you just use Rails and learn Ruby in the process? The
> "effort" required to learn Ruby pales in comparisson to the advantages
> using Ruby on Rails might give you, imho.
> 
> Ruby is an excellent language, not much different from Python with its
> own set of advantages and problems (I really mis python's white-space
> indentation for example, but that is fully compensated by Ruby's nice
> OOP features). With a book like "Programming Ruby" you would be up to
> speed in a few days.
> 
> Rails gives you much more than a comparable set of Python libraries
> which are gobled together with sticky tape. It provides you not just
> with an superbly integrated and consistent set of components. Rails
> gives you:
>   - (real) automation (take a look at scaffolding for quick prototyping)
>   - terrific documentation (the videos are *not* a gimmick, for example)
>   - an enthousiastic, supportive user community (that alone is an
> incredible help and time saver)
> 
> have fun,
> 
> Iwan

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Gary Nutbeam]

John J. Lee wrote:
I know mono runs on linux but I want nothing to do with it unless absolutely
necessary.

> Gary Nutbeam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> D H wrote:
> [...]
>> > Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono.  It is still in early
>> > development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
>> > eventually with IronPython as well.
>> 
>> Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more specific though and
>> mentioned this has done on Linux (client and server).
> 
> Mono runs on Linux.
> 
> 
> John

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Iwan van der Kleyn]

Gary Nutbeam wrote:
needing to learn Ruby.
But why wouldn't you just use Rails and learn Ruby in the process? The 
"effort" required to learn Ruby pales in comparisson to the advantages 
using Ruby on Rails might give you, imho.

Ruby is an excellent language, not much different from Python with its 
own set of advantages and problems (I really mis python's white-space 
indentation for example, but that is fully compensated by Ruby's nice 
OOP features). With a book like "Programming Ruby" you would be up to 
speed in a few days.

Rails gives you much more than a comparable set of Python libraries 
which are gobled together with sticky tape. It provides you not just 
with an superbly integrated and consistent set of components. Rails 
gives you:
 - (real) automation (take a look at scaffolding for quick prototyping)
 - terrific documentation (the videos are *not* a gimmick, for example)
 - an enthousiastic, supportive user community (that alone is an 
incredible help and time saver)

have fun,
Iwan

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[John J. Lee]

Gary Nutbeam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> D H wrote:
[...]
> > Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono.  It is still in early
> > development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
> > eventually with IronPython as well.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more specific though and
> mentioned this has done on Linux (client and server).

Mono runs on Linux.


John
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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[bruno modulix]

Gary Nutbeam wrote:
I count zpt as xml because page templates can operate in html or xml mode.
I can understand this, but from a practical POV, ZPT are mainly (x)html 
templates. A valid (x)html page is a valid ZPT too. This has nothing in 
common with the hundreds of complicated XML conf files needed by most 
J2EE app servers.

This is not a troll. It is a lot of work in Zope to create interfaces to
relational data for anything more than simple data models. 

It's a lot less work in Maypole or Rails,
I've never worked with any of them, so I can't tell. It's also true that 
most of what I've done with Zope so far relies mostly on the ZODB, RDBMS 
 connections being merely used as a bridge to share data with other 
systems. Still, I didn't have any problem with Zope/RDBMS integration so 
far.

but I don't want to go back to
writing in Perl, 
!-)
or needing to learn Ruby.
A nice language, but yes, there can be practical reasons to stick with 
Python.

(snip)
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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Steve Holden]

Gary Nutbeam wrote:
I count zpt as xml because page templates can operate in html or xml mode.
This is not a troll. It is a lot of work in Zope to create interfaces to
relational data for anything more than simple data models. 

It's a lot less work in Maypole or Rails, but I don't want to go back to
writing in Perl, or needing to learn Ruby.
I do like Formulator but the documentation on it is weak. I don't want to
have to go rooting around in the source code or spending hours on weeding
through mailing lists for answers. I still have to screw around and glue
formulator to the data with python, zpt, and zsql methods. Archetypes seems
a lot closer to a fix, but there are problems with SQLStorage representing
anything more than simple relationships reliably.
It would be nice to have an object database that is ACID compliant.
Have you looked at Caché? You can download a fully-functional version to 
play with, though it's got a fairly steep learning curve for 
non-relational use:

  http://www.intersystems.com/cache/
  InterSystems Caché: Post-relational Database
regards
 Steve
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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Gary Nutbeam]

Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more specific though and
mentioned this has done on Linux (client and server).

D H wrote:

> Gary Nutbeam wrote:
> 
>> I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
>> called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
>> similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
>> to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.
>> 
>> I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
>> unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.
>> 
>> Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?
> 
> 
> Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono.  It is still in early
> development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure
> eventually with IronPython as well.

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Gary Nutbeam]

I count zpt as xml because page templates can operate in html or xml mode.
This is not a troll. It is a lot of work in Zope to create interfaces to
relational data for anything more than simple data models. 

It's a lot less work in Maypole or Rails, but I don't want to go back to
writing in Perl, or needing to learn Ruby.

I do like Formulator but the documentation on it is weak. I don't want to
have to go rooting around in the source code or spending hours on weeding
through mailing lists for answers. I still have to screw around and glue
formulator to the data with python, zpt, and zsql methods. Archetypes seems
a lot closer to a fix, but there are problems with SQLStorage representing
anything more than simple relationships reliably.

It would be nice to have an object database that is ACID compliant.

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> 
> Is this a troll ? I wrote several Zope apps, and I don't remember having
> written a single ligne of xml. Unless you count ZPT for XML ?

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[D H]

Gary Nutbeam wrote:
I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.
I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.
Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?

Check out Castle on Rails for .NET/Mono.  It is still in early 
development, but you can use it with C#, VB, or boo, and I'm sure 
eventually with IronPython as well.
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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Gary Nutbeam a écrit :
I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.
I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.
Is this a troll ? I wrote several Zope apps, and I don't remember having 
written a single ligne of xml. Unless you count ZPT for XML ?

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Gary Nutbeam]

Two out of three on the home made approach I was thinking about. 

Quixote, Cheetah and SQLObject.

Thanks for the link. I'm perusing it now.

deelan wrote:

> Gary Nutbeam wrote:
> (...)
>> Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?
> 
> you may want to take a look at subway:
> 
> 
> it glues together cherrypy2, sqlobject
> and cheetah using an MVC approach.
> 
> HTH,
> deelan.

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Re: Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[deelan]

Gary Nutbeam wrote:
(...)
Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?
you may want to take a look at subway:

it glues together cherrypy2, sqlobject
and cheetah using an MVC approach.
HTH,
deelan.
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Ruby on Rails or Perl's Maypole..is there a Python equivalent

[Gary Nutbeam]

I've noticed that the Perl camp has a very nice web/database environment
called Maypole. Ruby has the Rails environment which on the surface seems
similar to Maypole. I can't find anything in Python that ties a database
to a web interface anywhere near as well as Ruby on Rails or Maypole.

I see the behemoth Zope having the best web/database integration, but
unfortunately I don't want to spent weeks writing xml for the interface.

Does anyone know of something similar to Rails or Maypole in Python?

Thanks.
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