Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Nicola Musatti wrote: It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. Profit is fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features. In Soviet Russia, you don't need features, features need *you*. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) writes: Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs That's because the Emacs users are the only ones who matter. |oug -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) writes: Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms... Bah, it's clear. Vim users are in the *third* half -- the larger one. Anyone not already in those three categories can presumably find a decent half as well. -- \Intellectual property is to the 21st century what the slave | `\ trade was to the 16th. -- David Mertz | _o__) | Ben Finney -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On 2007-07-06, Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms... Wow! That explains why I had so much trouble eating me Wheaties this morning. Can I still post messages if I don't exist? -- Neil Cerutti -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms... vi/vim/gvim user here... :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On 7/6/07, Ed Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alex Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms... vi/vim/gvim user here... :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Reaganomics? 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/2 = 100%? Interesting concept... Oh, vi/vim user here, too =) -- Computers are like air conditioners... They quit working when you open Windows. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Thanks for the links and replies, taking care. My another aim is: Can i develop graphical applications (like in Windows) which contain menus, interactive dialog boxes etc. using Ptyhon? I got it quite but not sure. I don't know Ptyhon's capability skills for creating interactive softwares like in Windows's created by C++ or Delphi. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) wrote: Python is simply easier than C++; you might well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential as it is for you with C++. That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a feature you get told that you don't need it. When printf was good for little David print is good enough for me. Among the first things I examine about an IDE ( for Python ) is the integration of a good REPL and how well recursive functions can be debugged ( yes, I know, Pythonistas can't recurse and so it is not recommended as well but sometimes ... ) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
kimiraikkonen schrieb: My another aim is: Can i develop graphical applications (like in Windows) which contain menus, interactive dialog boxes etc. using Ptyhon? I got it quite but not sure. I don't know Ptyhon's capability skills for creating interactive softwares like in Windows's created by C++ or Delphi. have a look at Dabo http://www.dabodev.com/ Gregor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Kay Schluehr schrieb: That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a feature you get told that you don't need it. When printf was good for little David print is good enough for me. That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. Gregor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
QOTW? Gregor Horvath schrieb: That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. Gregor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nicola Musatti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. Profit is fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features. On the other hand open source projects tend to lack features nobody enjoys implementing. Cheers, Nicola Musatti P.S. Maybe I should add a ;-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Kay Schluehr wrote: On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) wrote: Python is simply easier than C++; you might well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential as it is for you with C++. That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a feature you get told that you don't need it. A fairly nice debugger is standard and built-in to the regular Python distribution on all platforms. But 95% of what a debugger is used for IME is getting a stack trace-- in Python (or Java or Ruby or most modern languages) you get that automatically, and the debugger is nowhere near as useful as it is in C or C++. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 5, 9:21 am, Roy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nicola Musatti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question. Then tell us, pray, who was willing to pay for the epitome of useless features in MS Word, that Useless Features' Useless Feature, the ability to format text with the animated effect Marching Red Ants? I'm sure I paid for it, but it wasn't willingly... -- Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On 2007-07-05, Paul McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 9:21 am, Roy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nicola Musatti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question. Then tell us, pray, who was willing to pay for the epitome of useless features in MS Word, that Useless Features' Useless Feature, the ability to format text with the animated effect Marching Red Ants? I'm sure I paid for it, but it wasn't willingly... You should count your blessings. At least it doesn't play pinball any more. At least, I hope not. -- Neil Cerutti -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) wrote: Python is simply easier than C++; you might well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential as it is for you with C++. That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a feature you get told that you don't need it. When printf was good for little David print is good enough for me. Among the first things I examine about an IDE ( for Python ) is the integration of a good REPL and how well recursive functions can be debugged ( yes, I know, Pythonistas can't recurse and so it is not recommended as well but sometimes ... ) You've made factual claims with which I can't agree. If I understand you correctly, Pythoneers (to the exclusion of other software workers?) are prone to misrepresent lacunae as irrelevant. Perhaps I've done so in this case; perhaps I characteristically do so myself, and need to examine my own judgment more closely. It simply is not true, though, and even slanderous, to leave the impression that the community as a whole wallows fat and dumb in its rut of missing features. Py2exe, pyexpect, pylint, ElementTree, and many, many other Python facilities we now take for granted didn't exist at one time, and were recognized as important lacks. Old comp.lang.python threads make this clear. In writing this, I don't mean to minimize at all the merit of the specific individuals who authored ElementTree, pylint, and so on. You seem also to be saying that all Python debuggers are non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy. Is that truly your assessment of pdb URL: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-pdb.html ? Or are you focused on the IDEs URL: http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments , and really see them all that way? Anyway, I repeat my claim: I recommend to the original poster that he consider learning Python in a style that's qualitatively different-- lighter--than his experience with C++. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 5, 4:08 pm, Nicola Musatti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. Profit is fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features. On the other hand open source projects tend to lack features nobody enjoys implementing. OSS projects have the healthy tendency to die silently. No one has yet counted all the corpses. Someone has mentioned Eclipse before and it somehow indicates that the strongest distinction between an OSS project and a commercial one is the property of being OSS. Kay Cheers, Nicola Musatti P.S. Maybe I should add a ;-) This is a full ;-) thread. So it would be a bit redundant to mention it - just like this meta-comment. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 5, 4:21 pm, Roy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Nicola Musatti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 1:23 pm, Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] That's a property of open source projects. Features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, you got it all wrong. It's in *commercial* projects that features nobody really needs are not implemented. No, no, squared. In a commercial project, the only features that get implemented are the ones somebody is willing to pay for. Whether there is any correlation between need and willingness to pay is an open question. Ah, but you snipped the most important part of my post: Profit is fundamental in convincing you that you really need the features. I mean, marketing is all about creating the willingness by stimulating the perception of the need. Cheers, Nicola Musatti -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Gregor Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: kimiraikkonen schrieb: My another aim is: Can i develop graphical applications (like in Windows) which contain menus, interactive dialog boxes etc. using Ptyhon? I got it quite but not sure. I don't know Ptyhon's capability skills for creating interactive softwares like in Windows's created by C++ or Delphi. have a look at Dabo http://www.dabodev.com/ . . . I want to make this explicit for the benefit of the original questioner: A. Dabo's great stuff; but B. there are, at the same time, quite a few other frameworks for GUI programming with Python URL: http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming . -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
I just wanted a simple answer to my simple question, however topic has messed up. Think questioner as a beginner and use more understandable terms to help :) Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 1, 3:30 pm, Sönmez Kartal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Emacs is the best for anything for me. Me too. Also, as pointed out by some others, a debugger is not really all that necessary for an interpreted language like Python. Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 5, 7:18 pm, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted a simple answer to my simple question, however topic has messed up. Think questioner as a beginner and use more understandable terms to help :) Thanks. The problem is simply that the Python community has failed in this respect. There are many platform dependent and ideology driven ways to do deal with code editing / debugging but not actually a recommend or pythonic way. Other than Smalltalk, Python has not created an own style / identity regarding decent development environments and since half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has to be expected. If you use Google groups to access comp.lang.python you will also recognize that your question comes up every few weeks so it has a certain tradition to create the same spectrum of answers. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 5, 5:46 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kay Schluehr wrote: On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) wrote: Python is simply easier than C++; you might well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential as it is for you with C++. That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a feature you get told that you don't need it. A fairly nice debugger is standard and built-in to the regular Python distribution on all platforms. But 95% of what a debugger is used for IME is getting a stack trace-- in Python (or Java or Ruby or most modern languages) you get that automatically, and the debugger is nowhere near as useful as it is in C or C++. I am a Python newbie, but unfortunately I don't agree with that. For me having a debugger helped understand very quickly the flow in the libraries for which otherwise I would have had to navigate through code (which once again is not always easy without a good IDE). But this is just a newbie opinion :-), ./alex -- .w( the_mindstorm )p. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 1, 1:10 pm, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. That would depend on what platform(s) you would be developing on, what development environments you were used to, and so forth. I personally enjoy working in Eclipse with the PyDev plugin. Other people love Emacs. I know folk who you'll only pry their vim editors from their cold, dead fingers. For people dipping their toes into the Python pool, I recommend using Idle. It comes with Python itself, and has a built-in debugger (see the Debug menu), syntax highlighting, and other goodies. It's certainly enough to write your programs in. Quite frankly, you can use Windows Notepad to write your Python programs. Python itself is just a language. There is no single environment that Python ties to itself tightly. The basic debugger, PDB, is built in as a Python module, so you can use Python to debug itself. Most of the IDE's that provide debuggers are merely placing a nice wrapper over the python debugger. To develop very short programs, I often start Python on my command line and fiddle away. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Don't worry about making GUI programs at first. GUIs are present in every operating system, but they are an additional level of complexity. Get the language down, first, then head into the world of graphical user interfaces. Start programming. See Dive Into Python[1]. Check out the Beginner's section of the Python Wiki[2]. The hardest part about learning to programming is learning to structure your thoughts into a coherent series of logical units. The rest is just code, and code is easy. It's the damn thinking that's so hard. Get familiar with the Python documentation. If you are under Windows, the Python docs are installed with Python in Microsoft's Compiled Help format, so you can browse them via the contents, look things up in the index, and search via the search tab. Remember that the built-in stuff, like lists and dictionaries, are documented in the Python Library Reference [3], while most of the modules are documented in the Global Modules [4] document. It's huge, but if you want to know what Python has, it's almost always in there. If you have a question, look for the solution by Googling this newsgroup or the web in general. If you still can't find a solution, ask around in here. Give plenty of detail, such the exact error messages if one occurred, and the minimum amount of working code that causes or demonstrates the problem. You may get twenty different answers sometimes (like for your question here), but that's twenty answers or perspectives that you may not have known before you asked. --Jason [1] http://www.diveintopython.org/ [2] http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide [3] http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html [4] http://docs.python.org/modindex.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:13:29 -0700, Kay Schluehr wrote: On Jul 5, 7:18 pm, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just wanted a simple answer to my simple question, however topic has messed up. Think questioner as a beginner and use more understandable terms to help :) Thanks. The problem is simply that the Python community has failed in this respect. There are many platform dependent and ideology driven ways to do deal with code editing / debugging but not actually a recommend or pythonic way. What makes you think this is a *problem*? Why is it a failure that Python is perfectly usable with a whole range of editors, debuggers and development styles? Other than Smalltalk, Python has not created an own style / identity regarding decent development environments and since half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has to be expected. I don't accept that consensus on editing tools is a good thing, let alone a necessity. Nor that progress is only possible when everybody agrees. To quote from one of my favourite fictional characters, Lord Vetinari: Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions. He smiled, It's the only way to make progress. That and, of course, moving with the times. -Terry Pratchett, The Truth -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Kay Schluehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... half of the community is happy with Emacs and the other half wants to program in a VS-like environment, neither consensus nor progress has Calling all vi/vim users (and we'll heartily appreciate the support of TextMate fans, BBEdit ones, etc, etc) -- we're at risk being defined out of existence, since we're neither happy with Emacs nor wanting anything like Visual Studio, and yet Kay claims that people in either category make up the whole (one half plus the other half) and so that WE DON'T EXIST!!! A ridiculous claim to be sure, but we'd better let Herr Schluehr know that in no uncertain terms... Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 6, 12:13 am, Alex Popescu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 5, 5:46 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kay Schluehr wrote: On Jul 3, 8:12 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron Laird) wrote: Python is simply easier than C++; you might well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential as it is for you with C++. That's what I love most about the Python community. Whenever there is just a non-standard, platform-dependent or crappy implementation of a feature you get told that you don't need it. A fairly nice debugger is standard and built-in to the regular Python distribution on all platforms. But 95% of what a debugger is used for IME is getting a stack trace-- in Python (or Java or Ruby or most modern languages) you get that automatically, and the debugger is nowhere near as useful as it is in C or C++. I am a Python newbie, but unfortunately I don't agree with that. For me having a debugger helped understand very quickly the flow in the libraries for which otherwise I would have had to navigate through code (which once again is not always easy without a good IDE). You don't have to be unfortune about it. As you see there is no consensus. I don't even know how Java developers would respond to the assertion that the debugger is halfway irrelevant because they can read the stacktraces ( A real C programmer and real man can read core dumps. So what? ) Java is often considered as Blub but it doesn't at least deny progress in tool development of the last 20 years. But this is just a newbie opinion :-), I don't think so. BTW if you want to take a glimpse on the future of dynamic languages you might also checkout this paper: http://lamp.epfl.ch/~mcdirmid/mcdirmid07live.pdf Kay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Kay Schluehr schrieb: The problem is simply that the Python community has failed in this respect. There are many platform dependent and ideology driven ways to do deal with code editing / debugging but not actually a recommend or pythonic way. Other than Smalltalk, Python has not created an own Again, that's how Open Source or a Toolkit driven development (Unixy) works. For every problem there are 5 solutions. One size does not fit all. It's no fault that for example Linux Distributions do not have only one GUI but a lot of them. It's a great fortune. Gregor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
for my part, i'm a big fan of DrPython for writing python code (especially on windows). http://drpython.sourceforge.net/ you will need wxPython to have it running though It's not per se an IDE but it has a lot of feature to help you writing with some interesting plug- ins. You can launch code in the IDE, you have an inserted console etc. Oh and it's written in python :) ./ed -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the replies so far. Also i have to learn: What is the most reliable and easy way to start learning Ptyhon? Books? Trusted code sammples(where?)? . . . Beside answering your direct questions (which others have already done well), I think it's important to alert you (as others have also done, though less directly) that learning and using Python is different from VC++. Python is simply easier than C++; you might well find that a debugger, for example, doesn't feel as essential as it is for you with C++. Books might not be as necessary as they were for C++. I recommend you at least scan the following: URL: http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide , URL: http://docs.python.org/tut/ , and URL: http://www.poromenos.org/tutorials/python . -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 2, 5:10 am, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. http://www.wingware.com/ is pretty impressive but non-free of both beer speech varieties -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 2, 3:49 pm, evil tabby cat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 2, 5:10 am, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. http://www.wingware.com/is pretty impressive but non-free of both beer speech varieties Thanks for the replies so far. Also i have to learn: What is the most reliable and easy way to start learning Ptyhon? Books? Trusted code sammples(where?)? I know the importance and eases of Python quite. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Thanks for the replies so far. Also i have to learn: What is the most reliable and easy way to start learning Ptyhon? Books? Trusted code sammples(where?)? I know the importance and eases of Python quiet. Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
The best platform and editor for Python
Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Hello, Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse with PyDev extension. Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you need then you probably will make it more special then you found and this will take you to the more coding and more... By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 1, 10:30 pm, Sönmez Kartal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse with PyDev extension. Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you need then you probably will make it more special then you found and this will take you to the more coding and more... By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sa ol say n Kartal :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 1, 10:30 pm, Sönmez Kartal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse with PyDev extension. Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you need then you probably will make it more special then you found and this will take you to the more coding and more... By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thank you for the suggestions. Tesekkurler Say n Kartal :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 1, 10:30 pm, Sönmez Kartal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Emacs is the best for anything for me. Some people prefers Eclipse with PyDev extension. Build some real world applications with Python. Pick what do you need from SourceForge or similar one then write it. If it is something you need then you probably will make it more special then you found and this will take you to the more coding and more... By the way, thanks for winning Magny Cours grand prix Kimi... :-P On 7/1/07, kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thank you for the suggestions. I'd prefer a GUI-based, helpful and easy-implemention skilled enviroment. Tesekkurler Sayin Kartal :-) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], kimiraikkonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Thank you. I'm very happy with emacs using python mode (http://www.python.org/emacs/). It's a love it or hate it kind of thing. If you're an emacs fan, you'll probably not want to use anything else. If you're not an emacs fan, this is probably not for you. There really is no separate compiler. It's part and parcel of the interpreter. Your .py files do get compiled into .pyc files, but it happens automatically the first time you run a module. No need to run a separate compilation phase like you would with C or Java. As for a debugger, I've honestly never found the need for one. I invest a lot of time in unit tests, which smoke out most of the bugs. For what's left, it's easy enough to stick print statements in strategic places to see what's going on. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
There is one tool you won't be able to live without: iPython (no, it's not an Apple product, but it would be worth waiting in line for 3 days for) http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
Thank you for the suggestions. I'd prefer a GUI-based, helpful and easy-implemention skilled enviroment. Tesekkurler Sayin Kartal :-) then first decide which graphical package you want to use, because that limits your choice. cheers, Stef Mientki -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
On Jul 1, 10:59 pm, Stef Mientki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for the suggestions. I'd prefer a GUI-based, helpful and easy-implemention skilled enviroment. Tesekkurler Sayin Kartal :-) then first decide which graphical package you want to use, because that limits your choice. cheers, Stef Mientki I only have experience with Dev C++ for GUI and debugging based programming for C/C++. But i didn't know about Python. So, like Visual Studio and Dev C++ similiar Python editor is welcome. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
kimiraikkonen wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Under Windows, take a look at PyScripter. For students learning Python, we are switching from Scite to PyScripter, good editor, online Python shell, graphical debugger with step by step, showing variables values in popups and many other sympathic features... test it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: The best platform and editor for Python
kimiraikkonen wrote: Hi, For experienced with Pyhton users, which developing software and enviroment would you suggest for Pyhton programming? Compiler+Editor +Debugger. I use standard CPython bytecode compiler/virtual machine, the Vim editor, and standard pdb for debugging. Vim is nice as it's multiplatform, has a built-in Python interpreter for writing extensions, is free and lightweight. It's a modal editor so that's a matter of taste--people either love it or hate it. Also what are your suggestions for beginners of Pyhton programming? Start with something like http://www.diveintopython.org for a brief intro. Pick a very small project and program it. Then pick something bigger and do that. Once you're comfortable with small projects, find an open-source project that you like and try to understand the code enough to make some change you find useful; reading code is as important as writing it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
