Re: fsxNet Usenet gateway problem again

[Peter J. Holzer]

On 2018-09-06 18:03:19 +0200, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> I love that the reposted messages come with a header
> 
> Path: uni-berlin.de!<...>!.POSTED.agency.bbs.nz!not-for-mail
>^

This is normal for Usenet Messages. The format of the path header is the
same as that of UUCP mail addresses and in the early days of Usenet you
could actually use the path as the mail address of the sender in many
cases. This stopped working when UUCP was replaced by NNTP as the
transport protocol, so servers added "not-for-mail" at the end instead
of the username to prevent people from (ab)using the path as a mail
address.

hp

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|_|_) || because we have much more sophisticated
| |   | h...@hjp.at | management tools.
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Ross Anderson 


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Re: fsxNet Usenet gateway problem again

[Thomas Jollans]

On 2018-09-06 15:50, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 09/05/2018 02:30 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> I don't think this was spamming the list with the same question; a
>> glitch somewhere in a netnews server appears to be re-posting some old
>> posts.
> 
> I wonder why this bbs gateway in New Zealand keeps doing this.  Seems
> like someone contacts the postmaster there and he fixes the problem, and
> then it keeps coming back.  Configuration gets reverted?
> 

I love that the reposted messages come with a header

Path: uni-berlin.de!<...>!.POSTED.agency.bbs.nz!not-for-mail
   ^

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fsxNet Usenet gateway problem again

[Michael Torrie]

On 09/05/2018 02:30 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> I don't think this was spamming the list with the same question; a
> glitch somewhere in a netnews server appears to be re-posting some old
> posts.

I wonder why this bbs gateway in New Zealand keeps doing this.  Seems
like someone contacts the postmaster there and he fixes the problem, and
then it keeps coming back.  Configuration gets reverted?
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Michael Torrie]

On 05/24/2018 08:20 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> But you had to jump through hoops with procmail and server/client side
> filtering to get there.

True, but it takes maybe 30 seconds for each new list I sign up for, and
then it's out of sight, out of mind.  I already do a ton of filtering on
my inbox anyway to move family messages to their own folder, etc.  Hate
to say it, but GMail actually makes it pretty fast and easy to set up
the rule.  Mostly one-click automatic "filter messages like this one."

I agree NNTP is designed for all of this.  I used to spend a lot of time
on Usenet years ago when every uni had its own NNTP server.  And
thunderbird, my preferred client, can use NNTP.  But the mailing list
works and has, for me, almost no spam, so there's no real incentive for
me to change.

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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Michael Torrie]

On 05/24/2018 07:01 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2018 05:44:26 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:
> 
>> I agree web forums really suck for any kind of multi-user conversation.
> 
> Oh good. Because the Python core-devs are talking about moving to 
> Github's web interface instead of email. Because Github is the future :-)
> 
> https://circleci.com/blog/its-the-future/
> 
> https://hackernoon.com/its-the-future-again-cd038b72dd0b

That's great news. Sigh.
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Michael Torrie]

On 05/24/2018 07:10 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> A *thread* yes, but not a whole list.  I.e. if you read this using 
> mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python 
> list messages read in one go can you?   With tin/Usenet I look at
> the list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a
> couple of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is
> marked as read.

Sure can.  Just right click on the folder that holds all the python
mailing list messages and click "mark folder read."

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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Chris Green]

José María Mateos  wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2018, at 09:10, Chris Green wrote:
> > > Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP.
> > > 
> > A *thread* yes, but not a whole list.  I.e. if you read this using
> > mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python
> > list messages read in one go can you?   With tin/Usenet I look at the
> > list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a couple
> > of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is marked
> > as read.
> 
> Yes, you can, at least with mutt. I have a handy alias (ESC + m) that 
> accomplish precisely that.
> 
OK, but you had to add that, it's built in with every NNTP client I've
ever come across.

-- 
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·
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[José María Mateos]

On Thu, May 24, 2018, at 09:10, Chris Green wrote:
> > Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP.
> > 
> A *thread* yes, but not a whole list.  I.e. if you read this using
> mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python
> list messages read in one go can you?   With tin/Usenet I look at the
> list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a couple
> of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is marked
> as read.

Yes, you can, at least with mutt. I have a handy alias (ESC + m) that 
accomplish precisely that.

Cheers,

-- 
José María (Chema) Mateos
https://rinzewind.org/blog-es || https://rinzewind.org/blog-en
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-05-24, Michael Torrie  wrote:
> On 05/23/2018 12:03 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

>> But IMO email pales in comparison to NNTP when there are more than a
>> few messages per day per group.
>
> This is not my experience at all.  I used to use Usenet back in the day,
> but for nearly the last two decades I've just used mailing lists,
> procmail or other kinds of server-side filtering (including GMail's
> filters)

That's sort of my point: with NNTP, you don't _need_ procmail and
three kinds of filtering in addition to your IMAP client.

> and a good IMAP email client like Thunderbird.  I read several
> high-volume mailing lists this way and it works great. Each mailing
> list goes into its own IMAP folder. The result is identical to
> Usenet in functionality for me.  In fact, Thunderbird can work with
> Usenet and IMAP all at the same time and you'd be hard pressed to
> see any difference.

But you had to jump through hoops with procmail and server/client side
filtering to get there.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I'm not available
  at   for comment..
  gmail.com

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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Chris Green]

Michael Torrie  wrote:
> Comparing to IMAP and Thunderbird:
> 
> On 05/23/2018 04:39 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> > Well from other comments here it seems I'm not alone but anyway:-
> > 
> > Proper threading etc. is built in
> 
> check.
> 
> > 
> > It's automatically archived and one can search back through
> > threads for old postings, this is by design not an add on.
> 
> point conceded, although I've never used this feature when I was on Usenet.
> 
> > Kill files and other similar filtering abilities are part of the
> > user interface
> 
> true, but I can get the same job done with thunderbird and my normal
> email filtering that I do.  

Possibly, but it's easier with most NNTP clients.  I use both mailing
lists (mutt) and Usenet (tin) and if I have the choice (as with
Python) then I always go for Usenet/tin.

> 
> > Automatic handling of new messages and a means to say "I've read
> > everything here".
> 
> Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP.
> 
A *thread* yes, but not a whole list.  I.e. if you read this using
mail/IMAP you can mark a thread read but you can't mark *all* Python
list messages read in one go can you?   With tin/Usenet I look at the
list of new subjects in the Python group, I may investigate a couple
of threads, then I just hit 'C' and all of the Python group is marked
as read.


-- 
Chris Green
·
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Thu, 24 May 2018 05:44:26 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:

> I agree web forums really suck for any kind of multi-user conversation.

Oh good. Because the Python core-devs are talking about moving to 
Github's web interface instead of email. Because Github is the future :-)

https://circleci.com/blog/its-the-future/

https://hackernoon.com/its-the-future-again-cd038b72dd0b


[...]
> GMail's web interface and mailing lists... ugh.  "Conversations" is not
> threading no matter what Google calls it!


Indeed. Gmail conversations are really good, right up to the moment when 
they're not and you want real threading, and then you're screwed 
seventeen ways to Sunday.

I especially love the way occasionally Gmail will decide that an email 
you sent to Joe Blogs with subject line "Let's go fishing!" and an email 
you sent to Peter Parker with subject line "Where's the beef?" belong to 
the same conversation, and as far as I can tell there's no way to 
convince it otherwise.



-- 
Steve

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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Michael Torrie]

Comparing to IMAP and Thunderbird:

On 05/23/2018 04:39 PM, Chris Green wrote:
> Well from other comments here it seems I'm not alone but anyway:-
> 
> Proper threading etc. is built in

check.

> 
> It's automatically archived and one can search back through
> threads for old postings, this is by design not an add on.

point conceded, although I've never used this feature when I was on Usenet.

> Kill files and other similar filtering abilities are part of the
> user interface

true, but I can get the same job done with thunderbird and my normal
email filtering that I do.

> Automatic handling of new messages and a means to say "I've read
> everything here".

Yes I can mark an entire thread as "read" in IMAP.

> 
> I'm sure there's more


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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Michael Torrie]

On 05/23/2018 12:03 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Yes.  NNTP and NNTP clients were designed from the ground up to deal
> with ongoing discussions shared by large groups of people posting lots
> of messages, and they're _very_ good at.
> 
> Email was designed for one person sending one message to another.
> 
> Over the years, people have cobbled together bits and pieces and
> features to try to make it work for shared discussions. As a result,
> mailing lists mostly work (especially for low-volume "groups") and are
> pretty decent compared to "web forums" and other such wastes of
> electrons.

I agree web forums really suck for any kind of multi-user conversation.

But mailing lists only working for low-volume groups?  That's news to
me.  But maybe I'm not a typical email user.
> But IMO email pales in comparison to NNTP when there are more than a
> few messages per day per group.

This is not my experience at all.  I used to use Usenet back in the day,
but for nearly the last two decades I've just used mailing lists,
procmail or other kinds of server-side filtering (including GMail's
filters) and a good IMAP email client like Thunderbird.  I read several
high-volume mailing lists this way and it works great. Each mailing list
goes into its own IMAP folder. The result is identical to Usenet in
functionality for me.  In fact, Thunderbird can work with Usenet and
IMAP all at the same time and you'd be hard pressed to see any difference.

GMail's web interface and mailing lists... ugh.  "Conversations" is not
threading no matter what Google calls it!

TL;DR version: with IMAP and server-side filtering of messages into
folders, the experience with email and mailing lists is very good
indeed.  Mailing lists every bit as well as Usenet given a good e-mail
client.
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Gregory Ewing]

Ned Batchelder wrote:

On 5/23/18 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:


Brain damaged by facebook, AOL, M$, Google, yahoo yadda yadda into
thinking that webmail and forums are the only game in town?

Please avoid accusing others of being brain damaged, even if it was 
meant in a humorous context. :(


I think he meant "brainwashed".

--
Greg
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 19:24:52 Alan Bawden wrote:

> Gene Heskett  writes:
> > You are stating an opinion, but no facts to back it up, so describe
> > your environment that makes you write that, please.
>
> If he describes his environment and why he likes it, will that be a
> "fact"?  Or will you dismiss that as just another "opinion"?
>
> You asked:
> > can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not
> > used by everybody?
>
I did not ask that, somebody's quoting is miss adjusted.

> And the fact is that in many people's opinions, "the Usenet/NNTP
> interface (with a good newsreader) is so much better!"  That _is_ the
> answer to your question.

But it wasn't my question.

> I'm using Gnus myself, and I find that for a list/group like this, it
> works better than any mail client I have ever used.  The threading
> support is excellent.  And the scoring system lets me not only filter
> out the spam, but it also lets me tune out the people I think are
> idiots, who would show up even on the mailing list.
>
> That's just my opinion, of course.

Whereas I use kmail, with background helpers that do 99% of the work for 
me. It can search, thread, and all those things that a news reader like 
gnus or slrn can do. kmail is quite configurable, but note this is not 
the new kmail from kde, its the old kmail that TDE uses. Forked from the 
KDE-3.5 repo several years ago, with the emphasis since on fixing bugs 
that Ingo K. had no interest in fixing. In 2018 now, its Just Works(TM). 
But development continues to make it even more stable.

And of course thats just my opinion too. :) 

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Alan Bawden]

Gene Heskett  writes:

> You are stating an opinion, but no facts to back it up, so describe your 
> environment that makes you write that, please.

If he describes his environment and why he likes it, will that be a
"fact"?  Or will you dismiss that as just another "opinion"?

You asked:

> can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used by
> everybody?

And the fact is that in many people's opinions, "the Usenet/NNTP interface
(with a good newsreader) is so much better!"  That _is_ the answer to your
question.

I'm using Gnus myself, and I find that for a list/group like this, it works
better than any mail client I have ever used.  The threading support is
excellent.  And the scoring system lets me not only filter out the spam,
but it also lets me tune out the people I think are idiots, who would show
up even on the mailing list.

That's just my opinion, of course.  
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Chris Green]

Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 May 2018 12:45:57 Chris Green wrote:
> 
> > Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer  wrote:
> > > can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not
> > > used by everybody?
> >
> > Because the Usenet/NNTP interface (with a good newsreader) is so much
> > better! :-)
> >
> 
> You are stating an opinion, but no facts to back it up, so describe your 
> environment that makes you write that, please.
> 
Well from other comments here it seems I'm not alone but anyway:-

Proper threading etc. is built in

It's automatically archived and one can search back through
threads for old postings, this is by design not an add on.

Kill files and other similar filtering abilities are part of the
user interface

Automatic handling of new messages and a means to say "I've read
everything here".

I'm sure there's more

-- 
Chris Green
·
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 12:45:57 Chris Green wrote:

> Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer  wrote:
> > can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not
> > used by everybody?
>
> Because the Usenet/NNTP interface (with a good newsreader) is so much
> better! :-)
>
> --
> Chris Green
> ·

You are stating an opinion, but no facts to back it up, so describe your 
environment that makes you write that, please.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-05-23, Chris Green  wrote:
> Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer  wrote:
>> can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used by
>> everybody?
>
> Because the Usenet/NNTP interface (with a good newsreader) is so much
> better! :-)

Yes.  NNTP and NNTP clients were designed from the ground up to deal
with ongoing discussions shared by large groups of people posting lots
of messages, and they're _very_ good at.

Email was designed for one person sending one message to another.

Over the years, people have cobbled together bits and pieces and
features to try to make it work for shared discussions. As a result,
mailing lists mostly work (especially for low-volume "groups") and are
pretty decent compared to "web forums" and other such wastes of
electrons.

But IMO email pales in comparison to NNTP when there are more than a
few messages per day per group.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! ... I have read the
  at   INSTRUCTIONS ...
  gmail.com

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Re: Usenet Gateway (was: Spam levels.)

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-05-23, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer  wrote:

> can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used by
> everybody?

 1) I perfer the user-interface offered by my NNTP client (slrn).

 2) I don't want to archive many years worth of dozens of mailing
lists (I let gmane do that).

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I have many CHARTS
  at   and DIAGRAMS..
  gmail.com

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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Ned Batchelder]

On 5/23/18 12:03 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 11:20:34 Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:


can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used
by everybody?

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ

Brain damaged by facebook, AOL, M$, Google, yahoo yadda yadda into
thinking that webmail and forums are the only game in town?




Please avoid accusing others of being brain damaged, even if it was 
meant in a humorous context. :(


--Ned.
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Re: Usenet Gateway

[Chris Green]

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer  wrote:
> can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used by
> everybody?
> 
Because the Usenet/NNTP interface (with a good newsreader) is so much
better! :-)

-- 
Chris Green
·
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Re: Usenet Gateway (was: Spam levels.)

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 11:20:34 Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:

> can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used
> by everybody?
>
> Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
> https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ

Brain damaged by facebook, AOL, M$, Google, yahoo yadda yadda into 
thinking that webmail and forums are the only game in town?

They can run them thru their browser, and never were taught any 
different. My own ISP is so brain washed by imap users, that fetchmail 
is not allowed to delete what its has pulled, so I have to login to the 
webmail interface every day with a browser and delete by hand, those 
messages I've allready read with kmail. Its a time sink, and a right 
pain in the ass but thats how it is. With fetchmail/procmail/clamav and 
spamassassin handling the incoming mail, I am reduced to hitting the 
plus key to go to the next unread msg, select the reply mode if I reply, 
edit the response, and a ctrl+return sends it. You can't get it any 
simpler than that. Computers were sold to us as a way to do some of our 
work, but mention how my computer does all that for me and those folks 
are totally aghast at the thought of actually getting the computer to do 
it for them.  I ran out of sympathy for those folks nearly 2 decades 
ago, when I had a full house Amiga doing all that for me.

So I lurk here, hoping some python know how might stick to me, and issue 
a rant when I feel its needed. Sorry, but your post was a trigger, so I 
went into rant mode.

Take care now.  And enjoy the list but be aware that at times the spam is 
replaced with snarky stuff. Much of it well earned.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
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Re: Usenet Gateway (was: Spam levels.)

[Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer]

can someone explain to me why the mailing list (spam free) is not used by
everybody?

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ

>
>
-- 
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Usenet Gateway (was: Spam levels.)

[Peter J. Holzer]

On 2018-05-23 10:00:56 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2018 08:01:35 +0200, dieter  declaimed
> the following:
> 
> >Maybe something went wrong with the integration of your NTTP server
> >with the Gmane one?
> 
>   GMANE doesn't (to my knowledge) peer to NNTP servers. It provides an
> NNTP interface to archives of /mailing lists/.

I was quite sure that it did, but it is likely that I mis-remember.

I looked into the newsgroup and there are indeed no messages injected by
gmane. Messages posted to gmane are sent to the mailinglist and (like
all other messages from the mailinglist) injected into usenet through
the gateway at uni-berlin.de.

It seems that this gateway changes all message-ids to 
 

Although the message ids look like they are generated by the mailing
list software (they contain "mailman" and "python-list"), they are only
in the usenet postings, not in the messages sent to mailing list
subscriberts, so I think it must be the gateway that generates these
ids.

(I checked this for a few recent messages from the mailing list). 

This is what I thought I saw gmane doing, so it is very likely that I
was mistaken and that it the gateway at uni-berlin.de all along.

I apologize for attributing the error to Gmane.

Are the persons running the gateway reading this list? Could you please
fix this? Changing message-ids is an absolute no-no.

hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer| we build much bigger, better disasters now
|_|_) || because we have much more sophisticated
| |   | h...@hjp.at | management tools.
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Ross Anderson 


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Re: Message-IDs on Usenet gateway

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Sun, 06 Dec 2015 15:51:54 -0500, Random832 writes:
>Something weird is going on. On google groups, this message has
>a different Message-ID:
>

I think it is this problem.  Start here.
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2015-November/025225.html

Laura
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Message-IDs on Usenet gateway

[Random832]

Dave Farrance  writes:
> That raises another question.  I'm seeing a number of broken threads
> because people reply to posts that are not present in Usenet.  It's not
> just my main news-server because my newreader can gather posts from
> several Usenet servers and those posts are nowhere on Usenet.
>
> Case in point:  The post by Terry Reedy quoted above, reference
> . I presume that it's on the list server
> even though it's not on Usenet.  Anybody know what's going on?

Something weird is going on. On google groups, this message has
a different Message-ID:


At first glance, it might look like Gmane is rewriting the
Message-IDs, but the "gmane" ID seems authentic: It appears in the
reply link in the online mailing list archive, and on the
message in my own mailbox (I use Gmane now, but didn't bother
with unsubscribing, particularly since my Email provider's
search functionality is better.)

This means the Usenet gateway (i.e. the "real" one, that goes to
comp.lang.python) is rewriting the Message-Id.  I've had the
same problem in the other direction (Reference headers for the
"mailman" Message-IDs breaking threading for me), and I'm glad
that this prompted me to investigate properly, since before
today I'd always assumed it was a Gmane problem.  Who is in
charge of the usenet gateway?

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Re: Is the mailing list to usenet gateway borked?

[Ben Finney]

Steven D'Aprano  writes:

> The last couple of messages on this list  show
> up fine on the mailman archives, but are empty posts on
> comp.lang.python. Is there a problem with the mail -> usenet gateway?

I don't see empty messages through Usenet.

However, at around the time you reported this, I started seeing some
(not many) messages each day with strange mangling of the header: the
Date field showing Unix epoch, the Subject field truncated, and the From
field showing the remainder from the Subject.

Another distortion is that the summary of message size (which I think is
derived from the Lines field) shows zero for all those problematic
messages. That may indicate a link between the problems we're seeing.

For example:

=
O  [20110621T054352:  2.0k: deathweaselx86  ]─── Is there any advantage or 
disadvantage to using sets over list comps to ensure a list
O  [20110621T111058:  2.8k: Steven D'Aprano ]├─► [...]
O  [20110621T135956:  1.9k: rusi]└─► [...]
O  [19700101T10:  0.0k: comps to ensure a li]*── Re: Is there any advantage 
or disadvantage to using sets over list
O  <19700101T10:  0.0k: comps to ensure a li>  └─► [...]
O  [20110618T161430:  3.5k: Gregory Ewing   ]─── ANN: PyGUI 2.5.1
=

The problematic messages in the above example are Message-ID:
 and
. The messages, when
retrieved, have the right content and even the fields in the header
appear fine.

My news service for ‘comp.lang.python’ is currently provided from
‘astraweb.com’.

-- 
 \ “I'm a born-again atheist.” —Gore Vidal |
  `\   |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney
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Re: Is the mailing list to usenet gateway borked?

[Peter Pearson]

On 20 Jun 2011 23:49:11 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[snip]
> I will treat this as a bug in Pan, and take it to the appropriate forums, 
> but for anyone who cares, here's one example:
>
> From:   Steven D'Aprano 
> Subject:   Re: What is this syntax ?
> Newsgroups:   comp.lang.python
> References:   <4dfdfc99$0$715$426a3...@news.free.fr> <4dfe10d1$0$28053
> $426a3...@news.free.fr>  
>  dd0c35.16204819062...@news.panix.com>  l...@python.org>
> MIME-Version:   1.0
> Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:   8bit
> Date:   19 Jun 2011 23:19:56 GMT
> Lines:   36
> Message-ID:   <4dfe841c$0$30002$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>

As you probably expected, that message is displayed normally
by slrn.

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Re: Is the mailing list to usenet gateway borked?

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:49:33 +, Peter Pearson wrote:

> On 20 Jun 2011 01:41:44 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The last couple of messages on this list  show
>> up fine on the mailman archives, but are empty posts on
>> comp.lang.python. Is there a problem with the mail -> usenet gateway?
> 
> I don't see any empty posts on comp.lang.python.  Can we talk about a
> specific post?  For example, this recent post is not empty when
> retrieved from news.individual.net using slrn:
> 
> To: python-list@python.org
> From: Terry Reedy
> Subject: Re: threading : make stop the caller Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011
> 12:58:56 -0400


It seems to be a bug in my news client, Pan, because I've tried 
downloading the posts in another client and they are not empty. However, 
something has changed, because it only started recently -- I've never 
seen such "empty" posts before, not in 5+ years of posting with Pan, and 
within the last 24 hours or so, I am seeing dozens, in two different 
versions.

I will treat this as a bug in Pan, and take it to the appropriate forums, 
but for anyone who cares, here's one example:

From:   Steven D'Aprano 
Subject:   Re: What is this syntax ?
Newsgroups:   comp.lang.python
References:   <4dfdfc99$0$715$426a3...@news.free.fr> <4dfe10d1$0$28053
$426a3...@news.free.fr>  
  
MIME-Version:   1.0
Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding:   8bit
Date:   19 Jun 2011 23:19:56 GMT
Lines:   36
Message-ID:   <4dfe841c$0$30002$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>


-- 
Steven
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Re: Is the mailing list to usenet gateway borked?

[Tim Chase]

On 06/19/2011 08:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

The last couple of messages on this list  show up
fine on the mailman archives, but are empty posts on comp.lang.python. Is
there a problem with the mail ->  usenet gateway?


I haven't noticed any issues.  I tend to send via email 
(python-list@python.org) and receive via gmane's news interface. 
 Occasionally Thunderbird will hiccup on a post, failing to 
download the body (it has a feel like a race-condition in my 
experience).  Your post shows you're using Pan, so you might try 
poking at your news-server through a different news-reader and 
see if you experience the same issue(s).


-tkc


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Re: Is the mailing list to usenet gateway borked?

[Peter Pearson]

On 20 Jun 2011 01:41:44 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> The last couple of messages on this list  show up 
> fine on the mailman archives, but are empty posts on comp.lang.python. Is 
> there a problem with the mail -> usenet gateway?

I don't see any empty posts on comp.lang.python.  Can we talk
about a specific post?  For example, this recent post is not
empty when retrieved from news.individual.net using slrn:

To: python-list@python.org
From: Terry Reedy
Subject: Re: threading : make stop the caller
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:58:56 -0400


-- 
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-- 
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Is the mailing list to usenet gateway borked?

[Steven D'Aprano]

The last couple of messages on this list  show up 
fine on the mailman archives, but are empty posts on comp.lang.python. Is 
there a problem with the mail -> usenet gateway?

Who controls that?



-- 
Steven
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