Re: WHIFF - was: Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On Apr 15, 4:35 pm, Gerhard Häring g...@ghaering.de wrote: WTF?! This is weird stuff! Why the hell would I use this instead of a Python web framework like Django/Pylons/etc. Ok folks. I've added a page: Whiff is cool because: How do you make a page like this using another package? http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W1500.whyIsWhiffCool This doesn't compare WHIFF to Django/Pylons/etc except to make the unsubstantiated claim that you can't do the stuff demonstrated on the page as easily using any other package. The claim may be wrong, but not to my knowledge. I'm looking forward to learning otherwise. Please don't be too harsh. -- Thanks, Aaron Watters === If all the economists in the world were placed end to end they'd still point in different directions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Hi, On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 9:01 AM, blahemailb...@gmail.com wrote: 2) Gems - I've seen a bit about Eggs, but they don't seem to have anywhere near the official status gems do for Ruby. Are there any package management things like this for Python, or do you usually just grab the code you need as-is? On a side note: Do your friendly SysAdmin Neigboorhood a favor and either: a) Exactly specify which eggs (or gems for ruby) you need (and their version) b) Talk to them about wether you could get your eggs packaged In all cases talk to them ahead of time. (does that sound strange or what?) We have a policy where unpackaged and untesteted software isn't allowed. Unpackaged being no .debs available as we go with debian. There were quite often annoyances when we refused to just install stuff from gems or eggs, after quite some fighting (with the project leaders, and C*O mainly, not so much the devs) we managed to get more involved in the process of development and could place some requests. It paid of in being able to keep our service levels more easily, and only being a very minor glitch if the devs get some input beforehand and don't have to plug monitoring features in a product never designed to have that feature... regards, Martin -- http://soup.alt.delete.co.at http://www.xing.com/profile/Martin_Marcher http://www.linkedin.com/in/martinmarcher You are not free to read this message, by doing so, you have violated my licence and are required to urinate publicly. Thank you. Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Hi For a rake alternative have a look at aap http://www.a-a-p.org/ It won't be a drop in replacement but, does provide similiar functionality ( i have used to drive delphi, visualstudio, borland c and bunch of other stuff build scripts to make a complete windows desktop app) and automagically build and deploy 60 custom plone sites - in fact all sorts of things. There are plenty of python web frameworks, some have quite different approaches, what suits you will depend very much on your own bias, interest. T On Apr 14, 3:01 pm, blahemailb...@gmail.com wrote: Although I'm not 100% new to Python, most of my experience using high- level languages is with Ruby. I had a job doing Rails web development a little ways back and I really enjoyed it. At my current workplace though, we're looking at using Python and I'm trying to get back into the Python groove as it were. I've got plenty of materials to get me up to speed on the mechanics of the language, but I was wondering about the equivalent of some tools I was used to using in Ruby. If there's not anything that's a one-to-one equivalent I totally understand, I'm just looking for some pointers here to get me started. :) 1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that? I haven't worked with any large Python systems, just little things here and there.) 2) Gems - I've seen a bit about Eggs, but they don't seem to have anywhere near the official status gems do for Ruby. Are there any package management things like this for Python, or do you usually just grab the code you need as-is? 3) Web frameworks - yeah, I realize there are tons of these, but are TurboGears, Django, and Zope still the big ones? I've seen a lot about Pylons, is that a separate framework or is it a ... well, frame that other things are built on? (TG seems to be related to Pylons at a glance?) 4) Unit Test frameworks - If there's a behavioral test suite like RSpec that's be awesome, but I'd be happy to settle for a good, solid unit testing system. Thanks for any advice! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On Apr 15, 3:49 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of python web frameworks, some have quite different approaches, what suits you will depend very much on your own bias, interest. I've had a lot of luck with WHIFF ( http://whiff.sourceforge.net ) Of course I wrote it and just released it publicly recently. I'm a bit disappointed because I know a lot of people have looked at the docs and demos and there have been a number of downloads, but I haven't gotten one comment yet :( zilch nada. (There is one comment attached to one of the docs, but that was me testing the comments feature :) ). Back in the old days you could at least count on someone yelling at you about how your design was such a bad idea -- Aaron Watters === HELP! HELP! I'M BEING REPRESSED! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
WHIFF - was: Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Aaron Watters wrote: On Apr 15, 3:49 am, Tim Hoffman zutes...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of python web frameworks, some have quite different approaches, what suits you will depend very much on your own bias, interest. I've had a lot of luck with WHIFF ( http://whiff.sourceforge.net ) Of course I wrote it and just released it publicly recently. I'm a bit disappointed because I know a lot of people have looked at the docs and demos and there have been a number of downloads, but I haven't gotten one comment yet :( zilch nada. (There is one comment attached to one of the docs, but that was me testing the comments feature :) ). Back in the old days you could at least count on someone yelling at you about how your design was such a bad idea [Just read the docs for ca. 5 minutes.] That's perhaps because a lot of people had the same thought after short reading/trying out as me: WTF?! This is weird stuff! Why the hell would I use this instead of a Python web framework like Django/Pylons/etc. You should perhaps contrast WHIFF with the other offerings for creating web applications. -- Gerhard -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: WHIFF - was: Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
You should perhaps contrast WHIFF with the other offerings for creating web applications. -- Gerhard You're right. Thanks for visiting! I'll have to think. Basically I don't want something which takes over the controls. I'll have to think about a better way to explain what I mean. -- Aaron Watters ( http://whiff.sourceforge.net ) === Sisyphus got ripped. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Although I'm not 100% new to Python, most of my experience using high- level languages is with Ruby. I had a job doing Rails web development a little ways back and I really enjoyed it. At my current workplace though, we're looking at using Python and I'm trying to get back into the Python groove as it were. I've got plenty of materials to get me up to speed on the mechanics of the language, but I was wondering about the equivalent of some tools I was used to using in Ruby. If there's not anything that's a one-to-one equivalent I totally understand, I'm just looking for some pointers here to get me started. :) 1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that? I haven't worked with any large Python systems, just little things here and there.) 2) Gems - I've seen a bit about Eggs, but they don't seem to have anywhere near the official status gems do for Ruby. Are there any package management things like this for Python, or do you usually just grab the code you need as-is? 3) Web frameworks - yeah, I realize there are tons of these, but are TurboGears, Django, and Zope still the big ones? I've seen a lot about Pylons, is that a separate framework or is it a ... well, frame that other things are built on? (TG seems to be related to Pylons at a glance?) 4) Unit Test frameworks - If there's a behavioral test suite like RSpec that's be awesome, but I'd be happy to settle for a good, solid unit testing system. Thanks for any advice! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On Apr 14, 12:01 am, blahemailb...@gmail.com wrote: Although I'm not 100% new to Python, most of my experience using high- level languages is with Ruby. I had a job doing Rails web development a little ways back and I really enjoyed it. At my current workplace though, we're looking at using Python and I'm trying to get back into the Python groove as it were. I've got plenty of materials to get me up to speed on the mechanics of the language, but I was wondering about the equivalent of some tools I was used to using in Ruby. If there's not anything that's a one-to-one equivalent I totally understand, I'm just looking for some pointers here to get me started. :) 1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that? I haven't worked with any large Python systems, just little things here and there.) paver, virtualenv, zc.buildout 2) Gems - I've seen a bit about Eggs, but they don't seem to have anywhere near the official status gems do for Ruby. Are there any package management things like this for Python, or do you usually just grab the code you need as-is? easy_install or pip. Just like gems. 3) Web frameworks - yeah, I realize there are tons of these, but are TurboGears, Django, and Zope still the big ones? I've seen a lot about Pylons, is that a separate framework or is it a ... well, frame that other things are built on? (TG seems to be related to Pylons at a glance?) Pylons is sort of a large collection of software related to web development. Turbogears 2.0 builds on it. There is also CherryPy (Turbogears 1.0 uses that). Django's still the big dog though. 4) Unit Test frameworks - If there's a behavioral test suite like RSpec that's be awesome, but I'd be happy to settle for a good, solid unit testing system. nose, py.test Thanks for any advice! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Hi, 1) Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that?) If you're going to run the python source code, you don't need anything. Python builds what it needs automagically. Some tools exist to build stand-alone executables though, if you'd like to do so (e.g. py2exe, http://www.py2exe.org) 3) Web frameworks I quite like the powerful and very intuitive and easy to use web2py (http://www.web2py.com). (not to be confused with the minimalist web framework web.py, http://webpy.org). Best regards, Stefaan. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Hi 1) Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that?) If you're going to run the python source code, you don't need anything. Python builds what it needs automagically. Some tools exist to build stand-alone executables though, if you'd like to do so (e.g. py2exe, http://www.py2exe.org) That's not what the gentleman is looking for. Rake is a ruby version of make. It lets you run tasks with dependencies. You use this for repetitive tasks, administration, etc. Very convenient. 3) Web frameworks I quite like the powerful and very intuitive and easy to use web2py (http://www.web2py.com). (not to be confused with the minimalist web framework web.py, http://webpy.org). Looks interesting. Cheers, Emm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Hi there, Ruby transfuge too. Although I'm not 100% new to Python, most of my experience using high- level languages is with Ruby. I had a job doing Rails web development a little ways back and I really enjoyed it. At my current workplace though, we're looking at using Python and I'm trying to get back into the Python groove as it were. I've got plenty of materials to get me up to speed on the mechanics of the language, but I was wondering about the equivalent of some tools I was used to using in Ruby. If there's not anything that's a one-to-one equivalent I totally understand, I'm just looking for some pointers here to get me started. :) 1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that? I haven't worked with any large Python systems, just little things here and there.) Zed Shaw (of Mongrel fame) apparently created a pythonic rake called Vellum. However, the website returns a 404, and the egg doesn't seem to work. Shame. 2) Gems - I've seen a bit about Eggs, but they don't seem to have anywhere near the official status gems do for Ruby. Are there any package management things like this for Python, or do you usually just grab the code you need as-is? Eggs looks like gems. Except that some of them have actual documentation. The Egg index is here: http://pypi.python.org/pypi. But I'll grant you that easy_install doesn't have quite the list of options gem has. 3) Web frameworks - yeah, I realize there are tons of these, but are TurboGears, Django, and Zope still the big ones? I've seen a lot about Pylons, is that a separate framework or is it a ... well, frame that other things are built on? (TG seems to be related to Pylons at a glance?) Django is kind of like the Rails of Python, while Pylons is kind of like Merb (it integrates different frameworks to get the job done). 4) Unit Test frameworks - If there's a behavioral test suite like RSpec that's be awesome, but I'd be happy to settle for a good, solid unit testing system. BDD doesn't seem to be a big focus of the Python community. No Cucumber either :(. Have a look at Nose, it looks decent. Cheers, Emm -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On 4/14/2009 3:01 AM blahemailb...@gmail.com apparently wrote: 1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that? I haven't worked with any large Python systems, just little things here and there.) http://www.scons.org/wiki/SconsVsOtherBuildTools Alan Isaac -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? Depends on what you want the build process to do. For Python packages themselves, distutils/setuptools should be sufficient (and it's extensible if you find it insufficient). It's the defacto standard - nearly every Python package comes with a setup.py. Use setup.py build, setup.py install, setup.py bdist_wininst, etc. 4) Unit Test frameworks - If there's a behavioral test suite like RSpec that's be awesome, but I'd be happy to settle for a good, solid unit testing system. The unittest module is in the standard library. Regards, Martin -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
Thanks for the help everyone. I'll take some time to go through these and how they all work. I appreciate the feedback. :) Dave -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using Python after a few years of Ruby
On Apr 14, 3:01 am, blahemailb...@gmail.com wrote: 1) Rake - is there an equivalent of Rake? I've seen a bit about SCons, and it looks really nice, but it seems geared towards being a Make replacement for C/C++ rather than something that's used to work with Python itself. Is there anything like a Python build tool? (Or do I even need something like that? I haven't worked with any large Python systems, just little things here and there.) If the things you need automated aren't *too* complex, you'd be remiss if you didn't at least have a 2nd look at good old GNU make. 2) Gems - I've seen a bit about Eggs, but they don't seem to have anywhere near the official status gems do for Ruby. Are there any package management things like this for Python, or do you usually just grab the code you need as-is? Go have a look at the [PyPI](http://pypi.python.org/pypi) for packages, download them, and install them using the standard distutils `python setup.py install` command. This puts packages into your python's `site-packages` dir. You can also use the whole eggs/easy_install/setuptools thing, but I prefer the simpler standard method just described. 3) Web frameworks - yeah, I realize there are tons of these, but are TurboGears, Django, and Zope still the big ones? I've seen a lot about Pylons, is that a separate framework or is it a ... well, frame that other things are built on? (TG seems to be related to Pylons at a glance?) Django has a lot of steam. 4) Unit Test frameworks - If there's a behavioral test suite like RSpec that's be awesome, but I'd be happy to settle for a good, solid unit testing system. I'd look at the standard doctest module: http://docs.python.org/library/doctest.html -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
