Re: Vectors in Visual Python
Thanks for all your help everyone, if only it had addressed what I had asked I may have actually learned something about Python!! If anything was addressed to my problem then it has completely passed me by as most points were clearly made by a computer scientist and I am not one of those in the slightest. My experience of using any type of programming language is limited to the little we are taught in my non-computing subject and hence I have no idea what the below is all about!! In future example code may be more useful to help newbies like me :) That ``speciufication'' (sic) is no more ``a declaration'' than any other parameter you can pass to a constructor (or any other factory callable). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vectors in Visual Python
Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thinking that the visciousness with wihich you were attacking someone suggesting a proposal for an optional feature - even if an iill adivised proposal for and ill advised optional feature (I frankly don't care much about that part of the discussion one way or another) While in my case it's essentially ALL that I care about in this discussion: the technical aspects of Python. - was unwarranted, and more importantly *unwise* for someone in a If, like you, I didn't care about the technical aspects of Python, it sure would be unwise to get upset -- I could let the language go to hell in a handbasket, as long as I made sure I looked good myself. Caring deeply and passionately about something greater than oneself, particularly something which may seem dry and abstract to those who don't care a whit for it, might no doubt be deemed intrinsically unwise -- and yet, there is much to be said for such passion. Without the ability to get passionate and inflamed, we might perhaps be wiser, but we'd be Vulcans, not humans. Moreover, unless some of us felt such passion for certain technical issues, you guys who don't care would not get the benefits of the time and energy we freely devote to them -- so it's unwise, even from a strictly selfish viewpoint, to try to turn us firebrands into such coolly calculating Vulcans. postion of community leadership - considering past, recent, and undoubtedly future issues that have and will arise. What don't *you* understand about that?? Could you _really_ believe, considering the many years of consistent history of my posts on this group, that by reviving the issue you could get *any* other effect but fanning the flames all over again? THAT is what I don't understand: whether you're doing that _deliberately_, or out of almost-unbelievable levels of cluelessness. We all have are own kinds of stupidities, it seems to me. This is no doubt the case. For example, many of us instinctively brake and swerve when a small animal jumps into the road in front of the car they're driving, seriously endangering themselves and the passengers thereby. If we were presented the issue in a context giving us time to reflect and react rationally -- To how much danger to life and limb would you subject yourself, your wife, and your children, to increase the likelihood of survival for some stupid cat who can't wait to cross the road? -- we'd probably react quite differently. And yet, while it IS objectively stupid to behave that way, it _is_ one of the stupidities that make us human. A _deliberate_ and consistent preference can be disagreed with, but it's pretty pointless to call it stupid or unwise; there is just no accounting for tastes. If you _prefer_ the flame about declarations to continue for its own sake (or because you believe it makes you look good, whatever), while not caring about its contents, I may consider that evil and hateful, but it's neither intelligent nor stupid _per se_. If your preferences are otherwise, and yet your behavior is easily seen to be such as to have that effect, then THIS is indeed very stupid. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Vectors in Visual Python
SOrry if this message is a little confused, it most probably reflects the state of the author! I have made a small program that plots the orbit of a planet in visual python using visual.vector for all values. If i run the program it is clear that the orbit is non-keplerian as the planets gradually moves away from the sun. I am pretty sure the orbit should be keplerian so i guess there must be some source of error in the program. I am using from __future__ import division and the initial conditions I have are from NASA's horizons system, all values are accuracte to more than 10 decimal places. I was wondering if there was a way to specify the type of number used by visual.vector, for example, when using an array it is possible to specify the type as float64. If visual.vector was using a smaller amount of memory to store the number could this be the source of the error I am finding? If not what else could be the culprit? I have used a 4th order RK method which I have previously produced Keplerian orbits with. I hope I have made some sense here and look forward to any input Many Thanks Ben -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vectors in Visual Python
Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is that VPython vectors are in effect flat 3 element Numeric arrays, and Numeric ararys can be constructed with Float64 specified as the datatype. (wonder if that speciufication is a declaration, and if so whether that would indicate some conflict between Python's ideology (Alex's version) and that of its defacto standard numerical processing library - but I digress) . That ``speciufication'' (sic) is no more ``a declaration'' than any other parameter you can pass to a constructor (or any other factory callable). I find it hard to believe that this can be less than totally, entirely, and utterly obvious to anybody with a 3-digits IQ. Trying to subdivide the issue into sub-issues that I hope will be pretty obvious even for most 2-digits IQs...: I can pass parameters when I call something -- do you think ``that's a declaration''?! Some of the calls I perform build and return new objects -- do you REALLY think ``that's a declaration''?! Obviously, the parameters I pass will normally affect the results of my calls -- do you TRULY, SERIOUSLKY think ``that's a declaration''?! *WHAT ON EARTH* could *POSSIBLY* make you wonder if any of these aspects make a perfectly ordinary executable statement into what's instead ``a declaration''?!?! Please clarify if you were making a lame joke without smilies, are utterly confused about what declaration *MEANS*, or what other folly prompted you to this astounding remark, thanks. Having found out how to build a lasting killfile, I'd like to see if using it liberally on people who appear to post here just to provoke flamewars, rather than to offer and receive help, and participate in interesting discussion, can make the newsgroup decently usable to me again. It's a pity that any newbie reading the group will be confused and damaged by tons of unchallenged idiocies posted there by large number of fools, but, ah well, I can't fix that, obviously -- I can just hope and trust that the fools' karma suffers in proportion to the stupid harm they inflict. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vectors in Visual Python
Terry Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I (and I believe Alex) object to name declaration *statements* and/or the strong typing of *names*. I confirm that my key objection is to declarations in the strict sense: thingies that aren't executable, but rather billets doux to the compiler, for example to affect its treatment of barenames. I (and I believe Alex) approve of the strong typing of *objects*, which Absolute and unqualified agreement on this point, yes. must somehow be indicated in the object creation *expression*. This is absolutely fundamental to Python. There are at least three ways to indicate the desired object type: literal type, constuctor (and other function) identity, and constructor (and other function) arguments. And yes to all of this, as well. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vectors in Visual Python
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:16:05 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) wrote: Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please clarify if you were making a lame joke without smilies, are utterly confused about what declaration *MEANS*, or what other folly prompted you to this astounding remark, thanks. Interesting pedagogical technique all-in-all Mr. Martelli. What point is there in trying to help you understand the basis of my confusion, if my confusion is nothing more than a point of ridicule. I know exactly what declaration is - a fucking word, nothing more nothing less. Art -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Vectors in Visual Python
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:16:05 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alex Martelli) wrote: Having found out how to build a lasting killfile, I'd like to see if using it liberally on people who appear to post here just to provoke flamewars, rather than to offer and receive help, and participate in interesting discussion, can You are an accomplished provocateur. It is true that I joined the variable declaration discussion without the intent of offering or receiving help. I joined it actually to try to make a point that I thought was community spirited - thinking that the visciousness with wihich you were attacking someone suggesting a proposal for an optional feature - even if an iill adivised proposal for and ill advised optional feature (I frankly don't care much about that part of the discussion one way or another) - was unwarranted, and more importantly *unwise* for someone in a postion of community leadership - considering past, recent, and undoubtedly future issues that have and will arise. What don't *you* understand about that?? We all have are own kinds of stupidities, it seems to me. Art -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
