Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 2015-01-22, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Mario Figueiredo wrote: > >> But speaking about impressing more experient programmers, I personally >> don't think Python has a wow factor in any of its features and syntax. At >> least in the way I understand the word "wow". > > Quote: > > I've seen Python criticized as "ugly" precisely because it doesn't > have a trick-based view of the world. In many ways, it's a dull > language, borrowing solid old concepts from many other languages & > styles: boring syntax, unsurprising semantics, few automatic > coercions, etc etc. But that's one of the things I like about it. > - Tim Peters Well, you know the ancient Chinese programmer's curse: "May you program in an interesting language". -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Pardon me, but do you at know what it means to be gmail.comTRULY ONE with your BOOTH! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Alan Bawden wrote: > Alan Bawden writes: >> ... Score one for untyped languages. > > Drat. I should have writted "dynamically typed languages". > > The language has changed. When I was a novice Lisp hacker, we were > comfortable saying that Lisp was "untyped". But nowadays we always say > that Lisp is "dynamically typed". I could write an essay about why... I've always understood that strictly speaking, "untyped" refers to low-level languages like assembly or Forth, where everything is a machine word. In Forth, for example, all commands operate on single words on the stack, except for "double" variants which operate on two words at a time. E.g. you might have FOO to operate on the word at the top of the stack and FOOD to operate on the top two words. (Actually, given Forth's reputation for cryptic single-character line noise, it would probably be '^ and ''^ or something :-) In any case, there's a single stack, and double quantities aren't a separate data type, they're just two words. (Some versions of Forth are arguably typed, in that they have a separate stack for floating point.) I sometimes also use "untyped" to refer to languages like Hypertalk where everything is a string. -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Mario Figueiredo wrote: > But speaking about impressing more experient programmers, I personally > don't think Python has a wow factor in any of its features and syntax. At > least in the way I understand the word "wow". Quote: I've seen Python criticized as "ugly" precisely because it doesn't have a trick-based view of the world. In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts from many other languages & styles: boring syntax, unsurprising semantics, few automatic coercions, etc etc. But that's one of the things I like about it. - Tim Peters -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 21-1-2015 20:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Irmen de Jong wrote:
>> On 21-1-2015 18:59, Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>> 3. When I started to look at it, I found that strings could be any length
>>> and
>>> were not limited to swomething arbitrary, like 256 characters.
>>
>> Even more fun is that Python's primitive integer type (longs for older
>> Python versions)
>> has no arbitrary limitation either.
>>
>> That amazed me at the time I discovered python :)
>
> I hadn't worked with length-limited strings in basically forever
> (technically BASIC has a length limit, but I never ran into it; and I
> never did much with Pascal), but you're right, arbitrary-precision
> integers would have impressed me a lot more if I hadn't first known
> REXX. So... is there a way to show that off efficiently? Normally, any
> calculation that goes beyond 2**32 has already gone way beyond most
> humans' ability to hold the numbers in their heads.
>
> ChrisA
>
Something silly that I just thought about (Python 3):
number = 2 * 3 * 5 * 103# okay.
number = number * 3120937 * 6977407 * 8431103# hmm...
number = number *
70546381234168412430433268433712277793053956898109255590133639943
print("I know a huge number, it is:", number)
secret_message = number.to_bytes(37, "big")
print(secret_message)
Or perhaps: (after pip install pyprimes)
>>> number = 1402811054100763300785480817886711606823329164566977593890 # wow?
>>> import pyprimes.factors
>>> print(pyprimes.factors.factorise(number))
[2, 3, 5, 557, 1559, 3413, 6991, 27799, 41333, 52999, 104681, 247001, 992441,
211,
1299689]
>>>
Irmen
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Alan Bawden writes: > The language has changed. When I was a novice Lisp hacker, we were > comfortable saying that Lisp was "untyped". But nowadays we always say > that Lisp is "dynamically typed". I could write an essay about why... I'd be interested in seeing that. Lisp of course descends from Church's untyped lambda calculus but I didn't realize Lisp terminology about its (runtime) type system had changed historically. PL theorists sometimes like to refer to runtime types as "tags" rather than types. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:46 AM, Matthew Ruffalo wrote: > No, Java's String.length returns an int and Strings are limited to ~2 ** > 31 characters even in 64-bit Java. Huh, annoying. In Python, the length of a string (in characters) is stored in a Py_ssize_t (if I recall correctly), which is, I believe, a pointer-sized integer. So it'd be 64-bit on a 64-bit build. > I do seem to have encountered some strange behavior, though: creating > very large strings with str.__mul__ seems to enter an allocation loop in > Python 3.4. With a single-character string 's', I can create the > following new strings quickly: > > s * 2 ** 33 > s * 2 ** 34 > s * 2 ** 35 > s * 2 ** 36 > > but s * 2 ** 38 shows some odd memory usage. I'm watching the memory > usage of a Python process steadily increase to 256GB, drop to a few MB, > climb back to 256GB, drop to a few MB, and so on. It takes a half-dozen > cycles of allocation and deallocation before the interactive interpreter > gives me another prompt. That sounds like you're blooping through your page file. The exact behaviour will depend on how much physical memory you have, how your page file is implemented (which depends on your OS), the phase of the moon, and what you had for breakfast three weeks ago. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
In article , alan@scooby- doo.csail.mit.edu says... > Even in a 64-bit Java, the _type_ returned by String.length() is > 'int', and is thus at most (2**31 - 1). This isn't a problem for > strings, which never get that long in practice, but for some other > Java datatypes (e.g., Buffer) it is a real problem. Score one for > untyped languages. Still, assuming you have enough heap size, you can still create a 500 million character string buffer. That's one of a heck large buffer. Nearly twice the online encyclopedia Britannica(1), and roughly 50 times the longest novel ever produced (2). And considering you can always flush the buffer, I'm finding an hard time looking at unlimited string length in Python as wow factor. Even if we consider unicode strings. (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Size_comparisons#Comparison_of_en cyclopedias (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_novels -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Alan Bawden writes: > ... Score one for untyped languages. Drat. I should have writted "dynamically typed languages". The language has changed. When I was a novice Lisp hacker, we were comfortable saying that Lisp was "untyped". But nowadays we always say that Lisp is "dynamically typed". I could write an essay about why... -- Alan Bawden -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 01/21/2015 04:26 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Matthew Ruffalo wrote: >> Yes, length-unlimited strings are *extremely* useful in some >> applications. I remember bitterly cursing Java's string length limit of >> 2 ** 31 (maybe - 1) on multiple occasions. Python's strings seem to >> behave like integers in that their size is limited only by available memory. > Hmm, I don't know that you'll get much beyond 2**31 characters (even > all-ASCII characters in PEP 393) on a 32-bit Python, simply because > "available memory" is capped at 2**32 bytes minus other stuff. You'd > need a 64-bit Python to do that, and I would guess a 64-bit Java would > also raise the limit. > > ChrisA No, Java's String.length returns an int and Strings are limited to ~2 ** 31 characters even in 64-bit Java. I do seem to have encountered some strange behavior, though: creating very large strings with str.__mul__ seems to enter an allocation loop in Python 3.4. With a single-character string 's', I can create the following new strings quickly: s * 2 ** 33 s * 2 ** 34 s * 2 ** 35 s * 2 ** 36 but s * 2 ** 38 shows some odd memory usage. I'm watching the memory usage of a Python process steadily increase to 256GB, drop to a few MB, climb back to 256GB, drop to a few MB, and so on. It takes a half-dozen cycles of allocation and deallocation before the interactive interpreter gives me another prompt. MMR... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Chris Angelico writes: > ..., and I would guess a 64-bit Java would > also raise the limit. Even in a 64-bit Java, the _type_ returned by String.length() is 'int', and is thus at most (2**31 - 1). This isn't a problem for strings, which never get that long in practice, but for some other Java datatypes (e.g., Buffer) it is a real problem. Score one for untyped languages. -- Alan Bawden -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Matthew Ruffalo wrote: > Yes, length-unlimited strings are *extremely* useful in some > applications. I remember bitterly cursing Java's string length limit of > 2 ** 31 (maybe - 1) on multiple occasions. Python's strings seem to > behave like integers in that their size is limited only by available memory. Hmm, I don't know that you'll get much beyond 2**31 characters (even all-ASCII characters in PEP 393) on a 32-bit Python, simply because "available memory" is capped at 2**32 bytes minus other stuff. You'd need a 64-bit Python to do that, and I would guess a 64-bit Java would also raise the limit. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 01/21/2015 02:06 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Irmen de Jong wrote: >> On 21-1-2015 18:59, Steve Hayes wrote: >> >>> 3. When I started to look at it, I found that strings could be any length >>> and >>> were not limited to swomething arbitrary, like 256 characters. >> Even more fun is that Python's primitive integer type (longs for older >> Python versions) >> has no arbitrary limitation either. >> >> That amazed me at the time I discovered python :) > I hadn't worked with length-limited strings in basically forever > (technically BASIC has a length limit, but I never ran into it; and I > never did much with Pascal), but you're right, arbitrary-precision > integers would have impressed me a lot more if I hadn't first known > REXX. So... is there a way to show that off efficiently? Normally, any > calculation that goes beyond 2**32 has already gone way beyond most > humans' ability to hold the numbers in their heads. > > ChrisA Yes, length-unlimited strings are *extremely* useful in some applications. I remember bitterly cursing Java's string length limit of 2 ** 31 (maybe - 1) on multiple occasions. Python's strings seem to behave like integers in that their size is limited only by available memory. MMR... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 15:06:33 UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Irmen de Jong wrote: > > On 21-1-2015 18:59, Steve Hayes wrote: > > > >> 3. When I started to look at it, I found that strings could be any length > >> and > >> were not limited to swomething arbitrary, like 256 characters. > > > > Even more fun is that Python's primitive integer type (longs for older > > Python versions) > > has no arbitrary limitation either. > > > > That amazed me at the time I discovered python :) > > I hadn't worked with length-limited strings in basically forever > (technically BASIC has a length limit, but I never ran into it; and I > never did much with Pascal), but you're right, arbitrary-precision > integers would have impressed me a lot more if I hadn't first known > REXX. So... is there a way to show that off efficiently? How about: >>> def fac(n): ... ans = 1 ... while n > 1: ... ans *= n ... n -= 1 ... return ans ... >>> a = fac(100) >>> a 9332621544394415268169923885626670049071596826438162146859296389521753229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864 >>> b = fac(102) >>> b 961446671503512660926865558697259548455355905059659464369444714048531715130254590603314961882364451384985595980362059157503710042865532928 >>> b//a 10302 >>> b//a == 102 * 101 True André Normally, any > calculation that goes beyond 2**32 has already gone way beyond most > humans' ability to hold the numbers in their heads. > > ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Chris, Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? Some ideas where given by others already. I especially liked the variable swap one liner by Emile van Sebille. That's a little simple gem that will impress any seasoned developer of other programming languages. But speaking about impressing more experient programmers, I personally don't think Python has a wow factor in any of its features and syntax. At least in the way I understand the word "wow". Python shares its own brand of idiosyncracies with any other programming languages. Little gotchas and caveats that have you scratch your head and sometimes annoy you slightly. Python is it too cropped here and there with things worth criticizing. Meanwhile some of its interesting language features, like Comprehensions and Generators, aren't really that impressive to a seasoned developer of functional programming languages or programming languages like C# with its highly powerful and expressive LINQ. This means that, alone, Python won't really standout. But this is ok. No language does it on the merits of its syntax or feature set. What does make Python standout in my opinion -- what gave me the wow -- is its interoperability. Here we have a general purpose scripting language with more hooks to other systems that any other programming language in existence. With just Python, I can build a modern GUI interface on any of the most popular operating systems, use it on PostgreSQL to build stored procedures and move most of my business rules to the database server and attach dynamic behavior to a system developed in some other programming language. I apologize if my post was to long, but I lacked the time to make it shorter. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Irmen de Jong wrote: > On 21-1-2015 18:59, Steve Hayes wrote: > >> 3. When I started to look at it, I found that strings could be any length and >> were not limited to swomething arbitrary, like 256 characters. > > Even more fun is that Python's primitive integer type (longs for older Python > versions) > has no arbitrary limitation either. > > That amazed me at the time I discovered python :) I hadn't worked with length-limited strings in basically forever (technically BASIC has a length limit, but I never ran into it; and I never did much with Pascal), but you're right, arbitrary-precision integers would have impressed me a lot more if I hadn't first known REXX. So... is there a way to show that off efficiently? Normally, any calculation that goes beyond 2**32 has already gone way beyond most humans' ability to hold the numbers in their heads. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Friday, 16 January 2015 11:04:20 UTC-4, Chris Angelico wrote: > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? > > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > demo? > > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > brag about this language? > > ChrisA If you are willing to install an older version of Python (because the program I am going to mention has not been updated in years ... but it *should* work with 2.6), I'm going to suggest an odd one: Crunchy! (ok, I'm biased :-). The home page is at https://code.google.com/p/crunchy/ where you can find a link to some screencasts (based on an even older version ...) So, before you install anything, just have a quick look at the screencast to see if it's worthwhile. A demo using Crunchy seems to be even more impressive if the person knows some programming. (Here is what was said about an even older version of Crunchy by people at the Omaha Python group: " Jeff gave a presentation on Crunchy ([WWW] http://crunchy.sourceforge.net/) Talk about a gee whiz app." [https://mail.python.org/pipermail/omaha/2007-July/65.html]) In a nutshell, I would open the official Python tutorial in my browser, showing the official Python tutorial. (boring) Then, I would open the exact same page using a browser tab served by Crunchy: "magically" some text-input boxes would have been inserted allowing you to try out the code in the REPL provided by Crunchy. Then I'd use Crunchy to launch an external app (perhaps a tkinter program), etc. As I said at the beginning, Crunchy has not been updated in *years* ... more or less since the IPython and Sage notebooks came along... André -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 21-1-2015 18:59, Steve Hayes wrote: > 3. When I started to look at it, I found that strings could be any length and > were not limited to swomething arbitrary, like 256 characters. Even more fun is that Python's primitive integer type (longs for older Python versions) has no arbitrary limitation either. That amazed me at the time I discovered python :) Irmen -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 02:03:57 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: >Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. >S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to >the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of >minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? > >I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing >off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the >specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good >demo? > >Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and >easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details >of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you >brag about this language? I can only say what made me sit up and take notice. 1. I found it already on my computer. 2. It seemed to be used to run the Gramps genealogy program, which is quite complex. I was impressed. 3. When I started to look at it, I found that strings could be any length and were not limited to swomething arbitrary, like 256 characters. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 1/16/15 10:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good demo? Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you brag about this language? ChrisA Peter Norvig's spell corrector is a compact example of a lot of Python power: http://norvig.com/spell-correct.html I used it as a walk-through example for a presentation about Python at the DevDays conference: http://nedbatchelder.com/text/devdays.html The second half of the presentation is a 25-line nano-templating engine which shows off some other good characteristics of the language. -- Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 17/01/2015 1:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? When demoing to people with a reasonable amount of experience, I've found they're often impressed by showing them list comprehensions, then generators, then chained generators. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 1/16/2015 9:44 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > exact line of code that would show off Python's awesomeness. a,b = b,a Emile -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 2015-01-17 02:03, Chris Angelico wrote: > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > brag about this language? First, I agree with Andrew Berg's suggestion about the breadth of the stdlib. This always irks me when I have to return to the C/C++ world where there's no standard library for things like networking (and thus no stock libraries for IMAP, SMTP, HTTP, FTP, etc or email-message handling), CSV processing, regular expressions, zip/tar/zlib files, SHA1/MD5, command-line option processing, threading, and no available-everywhere GUI. In the Java world, it feels like much of this is available, but that the glommed-on standards have multiple ways to do them (the old way(s) and the new/improved way). In PHP, well...that's just PHP (difficult-to-grok equality testing, inconsistent naming conventions and parameter ordering, lack of namespacing, easy-to-screw-up string interpolation, hacky OOP, etc). My fast-introduction go-to items are dir() and help() within the REPL interface. Nothing speeds up my development like being able to drop to a PDB prompt and inspect an object, ask what properties it supports, dump them, get help on them, etc. There's also the bigint stuff that means I don't have to worry about over/underflow errors. I'm sure there are more great ideas, but how you market might depend on your audience's background in programming (what language did they use and what pain-points did they experience). -tkc -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 4:31 AM, Rustom Mody wrote: > Nice point! > First class concrete data structures is a blessing especially for > a C programmer. Definitely! Worth noting. There've been some nice concepts mentioned; concrete suggestions would be good too. Some specific feature or exact line of code that would show off Python's awesomeness. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 10:51:52 PM UTC+5:30, Mirage Web Studio wrote: > On 01/16/2015 08:33 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? > > > > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > > demo? > > > > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > > brag about this language? > > > > ChrisA > > hello, > > I am a newbie to python, I have dwelled in c,qt none in java. php a lot, > though I don't make money with any of those. > > The best thing I find is python is very easy, the best part maybe > because of my inexperience with other languages are the List and Dict > data types that just solved problems I had in real life made solvable > with python very easily. when I had to worry about memory and pointers > to memory in those other languages, python just made me focus on the > solution I want. Nice point! First class concrete data structures is a blessing especially for a C programmer. Here is an old Guido workout of dicts https://www.python.org/doc/essays/graphs/ Probably can be improved to use comprehensions -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 4:24 PM CET Andrew Berg wrote: >On 2015.01.16 09:03, Chris Angelico wrote: >> Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. >> S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to >> the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of >> minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? >> >> I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing >> off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the >> specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good >> demo? >> >> Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and >> easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details >> of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you >> brag about this language? >If the person is already familiar with programming, you could show off how >Python doesn't do a best effort guess at what to do when you make a mistake >(explicit is better than implicit). Many other languages will, for example, >make an undefined variable into a variable defined as an empty string or allow >silly things like 5 + "cheese", whereas Python will let you know that you made >a mistake somewhere instead of letting garbage propagate. This behavior can be >frustrating for newbies to Python, but with someone there to explain why it >works that way, they can learn to appreciate it instead of giving up in anger >after Python keeps throwing exceptions at them. > >If the person is not familiar with programming, show them how easy it is to get >something useful written quickly, even with only the stdlib Completely agree! Find out that person's itch and make a scratch.py that shows how problem-oriented the language is, with code that somewhat reads like regular English. REPL will also work, if you prepare it well enough. Ipython Notebook! >Low-level details >are handled so that you can focus on what you want the program to do, and there >is a ton of stuff in the stdlib so that it's likely you don't need to go >searching for a bunch of different libraries so that again, you can focus what >you want the program to do. For this, chances are, that person has some things >in mind already that are not difficult to get started with using Python. Also, >using the REPL for this makes it an even better demo. You can probably have the >basic functionality of whatever cool thing they want right there in the REPL. >-- >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 01/16/2015 08:33 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? > > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > demo? > > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > brag about this language? > > ChrisA hello, I am a newbie to python, I have dwelled in c,qt none in java. php a lot, though I don't make money with any of those. The best thing I find is python is very easy, the best part maybe because of my inexperience with other languages are the List and Dict data types that just solved problems I had in real life made solvable with python very easily. when I had to worry about memory and pointers to memory in those other languages, python just made me focus on the solution I want. also the way I can read python program just like they are written in plain eglish :) a personal problem I tried to solve is that how many characters exist in a sequence statistically (with 2 or more characters in len) in any given file and then their count. For a 100kb file I used practially all programming knowledge in from the other languages but failed miserably as the computation were taking more time with each bigger chunck of file. I would have to do a lot of memery management with python using those style like deleting list and dict before adding another. but when I tried to solve the problem natively with python it just took a blink of an eye for them to solve upto 50kb file. but for larger files although instant it is just memory consuming since I was limit with 2 gb I ddin't poke further. this was my exp and I find programming fun in python like ironman talking to jarvis keep computing!!! GCM -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 8:34:20 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? There is this story -- maybe apocryphal -- that the tendency to vote democratic or republican runs so deep it can be detected from genetic markers. Similar things apply to programming: Some people are drawn to a mathematical style; some are not Some people love cute little scripts; some are left cold Some love graphics; some dislike etc etc All corollary to: Some people can think like programmers; most cant [Who does the last quote? Steve Jobs?] So to start with, you need to 'fingerprint' (is that the word?) your subject. > > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > demo? The reason I find the REPL particularly cool for such demos [I am surprised that Marko doesn't] is that at least to some extent you can straddle some of the divides above. How about a little web-scrape with beautiful-soup? Followed by maybe a "throw the results into a csv-file and open in the local spreadsheet"? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 16/01/2015 16:03, Chris Angelico wrote: Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? The batteries included: some useful and simple examples with only core data type objects, built-in functions and standard library -- Marco Buttu INAF-Osservatorio Astronomico di Cagliari Via della Scienza n. 5, 09047 Selargius (CA) Phone: 070 711 80 217 Email: mbu...@oa-cagliari.inaf.it -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
Chris Angelico : > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? My experience is that if you have your "customer" try their hand on programming and complete a simple challenge, they'll be extremely impressed. "Did I manage that?" On the other hand, if you want to demo your greatest achievements at the screen, they will be left unmoved. "Even my favorite Zynga game looks cooler than that." > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > demo? I would advise steering clear of the REPL and go directly to writing a program and executing it. Maybe the classic ASCII graphics presentation of the sine wave: #!/usr/bin/env python3 import time import math def main(): for angle in range(0, 10, 5): print(int((1 + math.sin(math.radians(angle))) * 35) * "*") time.sleep(0.1) if __name__ == "__main__": main() > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > brag about this language? I'd recommend not skipping the traditional boilerplate (see my example). Be professional from the start. Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
On 2015.01.16 09:03, Chris Angelico wrote: > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? > > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > demo? > > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > brag about this language? If the person is already familiar with programming, you could show off how Python doesn't do a best effort guess at what to do when you make a mistake (explicit is better than implicit). Many other languages will, for example, make an undefined variable into a variable defined as an empty string or allow silly things like 5 + "cheese", whereas Python will let you know that you made a mistake somewhere instead of letting garbage propagate. This behavior can be frustrating for newbies to Python, but with someone there to explain why it works that way, they can learn to appreciate it instead of giving up in anger after Python keeps throwing exceptions at them. If the person is not familiar with programming, show them how easy it is to get something useful written quickly, even with only the stdlib. Low-level details are handled so that you can focus on what you want the program to do, and there is a ton of stuff in the stdlib so that it's likely you don't need to go searching for a bunch of different libraries so that again, you can focus what you want the program to do. For this, chances are, that person has some things in mind already that are not difficult to get started with using Python. Also, using the REPL for this makes it an even better demo. You can probably have the basic functionality of whatever cool thing they want right there in the REPL. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to "wow" someone new to Python
If you want to show off the REPL, I'd got for iPython and show them some simple matplotlib examples (plotting sin waves, maybe dig up a CSV file on the net with some data your friend is familiar with, etc) Skip On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. > S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to > the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of > minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? > > I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing > off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the > specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good > demo? > > Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and > easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details > of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you > brag about this language? > > ChrisA > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
How to "wow" someone new to Python
Scenario: You're introducing someone to Python for the first time. S/he may have some previous programming experience, or may be new to the whole idea of giving a computer instructions. You have a couple of minutes to show off how awesome Python is. What do you do? I was thinking along the lines of a simple demo in the REPL, showing off some of Python's coolest features. But then I got stuck on the specifics. What are Python's best coolnesses? What makes for a good demo? Ideally, this should be something that can be demo'd quickly and easily, and it should be impressive without going into great details of "and see, this is how it works on the inside". So, how would you brag about this language? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Gerry, I have the similar background as yours, many years using SAS/R. Right now I am trying to pick up python. >From your point, is there anything that can be done with python easily but not with SAS/R? thanks for your insight. wensui On 1/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We're not so far apart. > > I've used SAS or 25 years, and R/S-PLUS for 10. > > I think you've said it better than I did, though: R requires more attention > (which is often needed). > > I certainly didn't mean that R crashed - just an indictment of how much I > thought I was holding in my head. > > Gerry > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- WenSui Liu A lousy statistician who happens to know a little programming (http://spaces.msn.com/statcompute/blog) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
We're not so far apart. I've used SAS or 25 years, and R/S-PLUS for 10. I think you've said it better than I did, though: R requires more attention (which is often needed). I certainly didn't mean that R crashed - just an indictment of how much I thought I was holding in my head. Gerry -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Klaas wrote: > C/C++ do not allocate extra arrays. What you posted _might_ bear a > small resemblance to what numpy might produce (if using vectorized > code, not explicit loop code). This is entirely unrelated to the > reasons why fortran can be faster than c. Array libraries in C++ that use operator overloading produce intermediate arrays for the same reason as NumPy. There is a C++ library that are sometimes able to avoid intermediates (Blitz++), but it can only do so for small arrays for which bounds are known at compile time. Operator overloading is sometimes portrayed as required for scientific computing (e.g. in Java vs. C# flame wars), but the cure can be worse than the disease. C does not have operator overloading and is an entirely different case. You can of course avoid intermediates in C++ if you use C++ as C. You can do that in Python as well. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
sturlamolden wrote: > as well as looping over the data only once. This is one of the main > reasons why Fortran is better than C++ for scientific computing. I.e. > instead of > > for (i=0; i array1[i] = (array1[i] + array2[i]) * (array3[i] + array4[i]); > > one actually gets something like three intermediates and four loops: > > tmp1 = malloc(n*sizeof(whatever)); > for (i=0; itmp1[i] = array1[i] + array2[i]; > tmp2 = malloc(n*sizeof(whatever)); > for (i=0; itmp2[i] = array3[i] + array4[i]; > tmp3 = malloc(n*sizeof(whatever)); > for (i=0; itmp3[i] = tmp1[i] + tmp2[i]; > free(tmp1); > free(tmp2); > for (i=0; i array1[i] = tmp3[i]; > free(tmp3); C/C++ do not allocate extra arrays. What you posted _might_ bear a small resemblance to what numpy might produce (if using vectorized code, not explicit loop code). This is entirely unrelated to the reasons why fortran can be faster than c. -Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
sturlamolden wrote: > array3[:] = array1[:] + array2[:] OT, but why are you slicing array1 and array2? All that does is create new array objects pointing to the same data. > Now for my question: operator overloading is (as shown) not the > solution to efficient scientific computing. It creates serious bloat > where it is undesired. Can NumPy's performance be improved by adding > the array types to the Python language it self? Or are the dynamic > nature of Python preventing this? Pretty much. Making the array types builtin rather than from a third party module doesn't really change anything. However, if type inferencing tools like psyco are taught about numpy arrays like they are already taught about ints, then one could do make it avoid temporaries. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Wensui Liu wrote: > doing. However, that is not the fault of excel/spss itself but of > people who is using it. Yes and no. I think SPSS makes it too tempting. Like children playing with fire, they may not even know it's dangerous. You can do an GLM in SPSS by just filling out a form - but how many social scientists or MDs know anything about general linear models? The command line interface of MySQL, SAS, Matlab and R makes an excellent deterrent. All statistical tool can be misused. But the difference is accidental and deliberate misuse. Anyone can naviagte a GUI, but you need to know you want to do an ANOVA before you can think of typing "anova" on the command line. You mentioned use of Excel as database. That is another example, although it has more to do with data security and integrity, and sometimes protection of privacy. Many companies have banned the use of Microsoft Access, as employees were building their own mock up databases - thus migrating these Access databases to an even worse solution (Excel). Sturla Molden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Stef Mientki wrote: > MatLab: 14 msec > Python: 2 msec I have the same experience. NumPy is usually faster than Matlab. But it very much depends on how the code is structured. I wonder if it is possible to improve the performance of NumPy by having its fundamental types in the language, instead of depending on operator overloading. For example, in NumPy, a statement like array3[:] = array1[:] + array2[:] allocates an intermediate array that is not needed. This is because the operator overloading cannot know if it's evaluating a part of a larger statement like array1[:] = (array1[:] + array2[:]) * (array3[:] + array4[:]) If arrays had been a part of the language, as it is in Matlab and Fortran 95, the compiler could see this and avoid intermediate storage, as well as looping over the data only once. This is one of the main reasons why Fortran is better than C++ for scientific computing. I.e. instead of for (i=0; ihttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Sturla, I am working in the healthcare and seeing people loves to use excel / spss as database or statistical tool without know what he/she is doing. However, that is not the fault of excel/spss itself but of people who is using it. Things, even include SAS/R, would look stupid, when it has been misused. In the hospitals, people don't pray God. They pray MD. :-) On 30 Dec 2006 19:09:59 -0800, sturlamolden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Stef Mientki wrote: > > > I always thought that SPSS or SAS where thé standards. > > Stef > > As far as SPSS is a standard, it is in the field of "religious use of > statistical procedures I don't understand (as I'm a math retard), but > hey p<0.05 is always significant (and any other value is proof of the > opposite ... I think)." > > SPSS is often used by scientists that don't understand maths at all, > often within the fields of social sciences, but regrettably also within > biology and medicine. I know of few program that have done so much harm > as SPSS. It's like handing an armed weapon to a child. Generally one > should stay away from the things that one don't understand, > particularly within medicine where a wrong result can have dramatic > consequences. SPSS encourages the opposite. Copy and paste from Excel > to SPSS is regrettably becoming the de-facto standard in applied > statistics. The problem is not the quality of Excel or SPSS, but rather > the (in)competence of those conducting the data analysis. This can and > does regrettably lead to serious misinterpretation of the data, in > either direction. When a paper is submitted, these errors are usually > not caught in the peer review process, as peer review is, well, exactly > what is says: *peer* review. > > Thus, SPSS makes it easy to shoot your self in the foot. In my > experience students in social sciences and medicine are currently > thought to do exact that, in universities and colleges all around the > World. And it is particularly dangerous within medical sciences, as > peoples' life and health may be affected by it. I pray God something is > done to prohibit or limit the use of these statistical toys. > > > Sturla Molden > PhD > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- WenSui Liu A lousy statistician who happens to know a little programming (http://spaces.msn.com/statcompute/blog) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Stef Mientki wrote: > I always thought that SPSS or SAS where thé standards. > Stef As far as SPSS is a standard, it is in the field of "religious use of statistical procedures I don't understand (as I'm a math retard), but hey p<0.05 is always significant (and any other value is proof of the opposite ... I think)." SPSS is often used by scientists that don't understand maths at all, often within the fields of social sciences, but regrettably also within biology and medicine. I know of few program that have done so much harm as SPSS. It's like handing an armed weapon to a child. Generally one should stay away from the things that one don't understand, particularly within medicine where a wrong result can have dramatic consequences. SPSS encourages the opposite. Copy and paste from Excel to SPSS is regrettably becoming the de-facto standard in applied statistics. The problem is not the quality of Excel or SPSS, but rather the (in)competence of those conducting the data analysis. This can and does regrettably lead to serious misinterpretation of the data, in either direction. When a paper is submitted, these errors are usually not caught in the peer review process, as peer review is, well, exactly what is says: *peer* review. Thus, SPSS makes it easy to shoot your self in the foot. In my experience students in social sciences and medicine are currently thought to do exact that, in universities and colleges all around the World. And it is particularly dangerous within medical sciences, as peoples' life and health may be affected by it. I pray God something is done to prohibit or limit the use of these statistical toys. Sturla Molden PhD -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
On 12/31/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > R is the free version of the S language. S-PLUS is a commercial version. > Both are targeted at statisticians per se. Their strengths are in > exploratory data analysis (in my opinion). > > SAS has many statistical featues, and is phenomenally well-documented and > supported. One of its great strengths is the robustness of its data model > -- very well suited to large sizes, repetitive inputs, industrial-strength > data processing with a statistics slant. Well over 200 SAS books,for > example. > > I think of SAS and R as being like airliners and helicopters -- airlines get > the job done, and well, as long as it's well-defined and nearly the same job > all the time. Helicopters can go anywhere, do anything, but a moment's > inattention leads to a crash. > -- inattention leading to a crash? I don't get it. I used SAS for about 3 or 4 years, and have used S-Plus and then R for 10 years (R for 8 years now). I've never noticed inattention leading to a crash. I've noticed I cannot get away in R without a careful definition of what I want (which is good), and the immediate interactivity of R is very helpful with mistakes. And of course, programming in R is, well, programming in a reasonable language. Programming in SAS is ... well, programming in SAS (which is about as fun as programming in SPSS). (Another email somehow suggested that the stability/instability analogy of airplanes vs. helicopters does apply to SAS vs. R. Again, I don't really get it. Sure, SAS is very stable. But so is R ---one common complaint is getting seg faults because package whatever has memory leaks, but that is not R's fault, but rather the package's fault). But then, this might start looking a lot like a flame war, which is actually rather off-topic for this list. Anyway, for a Python programmer, picking up R should be fairly easy. And rpy is really a great way of getting R and Python to talk to each other. We do this sort of thing quite a bit on our applications. And yes, R is definitely available for both Linux and Windows (and Mac), has excellent support from several editors in those platforms (e.g., emacs + ess, tinn-R, etc), and seems to be becoming a de facto standard at least in statistical research and is extremely popular in bioinformatics and among statisticians who do bioinformatics (look at bioconductor.org). Ramon -- Ramon Diaz-Uriarte Statistical Computing Team Structural Biology and Biocomputing Programme Spanish National Cancer Centre (CNIO) http://ligarto.org/rdiaz -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
> I think of SAS and R as being like airliners and helicopters -- I like that comparison,... .. Airplanes are inherent stable, .. Helicopters are inherent not-stable ;-) cheers, Stef -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
R is the free version of the S language. S-PLUS is a commercial version. Both are targeted at statisticians per se. Their strengths are in exploratory data analysis (in my opinion). SAS has many statistical featues, and is phenomenally well-documented and supported. One of its great strengths is the robustness of its data model -- very well suited to large sizes, repetitive inputs, industrial-strength data processing with a statistics slant. Well over 200 SAS books,for example. I think of SAS and R as being like airliners and helicopters -- airlines get the job done, and well, as long as it's well-defined and nearly the same job all the time. Helicopters can go anywhere, do anything, but a moment's inattention leads to a crash. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Stef Mientki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Doran, Harold wrote: > > R is the open-source implementation of the S language developed at Bell > > laboratories. It is a statistical programming language that is becoming > > the de facto standard among statisticians. > Thanks for the information > I always thought that SPSS or SAS where thé standards. > Stef The 'SS' in SPSS stands for Social Science, IIRC. Looking at the lack of mention of that on their website, though, and the prominent use of the "E word" there, they have obviously grown out of (or want to grow out of) their original niche. Googling, SAS's market seems to be mostly in the business / financial worlds. No doubt R's community differs from those, though I don't know exactly how. From the long list of free software available for it, it sure seems popular with some people: http://www.stats.bris.ac.uk/R/ John -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Stef Mientki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Mathias Panzenboeck wrote: > > A other great thing: With rpy you have R bindings for python. > > forgive my ignorance, what's R, rpy ? > Or is only relevant for Linux users ? [...] R is a language / environment for statistical programming. RPy is a Python interface to let you use R from Python. I think they both run on both Windows and Linux. http://www.r-project.org/ http://rpy.sourceforge.net/ John -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Doran, Harold wrote: > R is the open-source implementation of the S language developed at Bell > laboratories. It is a statistical programming language that is becoming > the de facto standard among statisticians. Thanks for the information I always thought that SPSS or SAS where thé standards. Stef -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
R is the open-source implementation of the S language developed at Bell laboratories. It is a statistical programming language that is becoming the de facto standard among statisticians. Rpy is what allows an interface between python and the R language. Harold > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Stef Mientki > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:24 AM > To: python-list@python.org > Subject: Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab > > Mathias Panzenboeck wrote: > > A other great thing: With rpy you have R bindings for python. > > forgive my ignorance, what's R, rpy ? > Or is only relevant for Linux users ? > > cheers > Stef > > > So you have the power of R and the easy syntax and big > standard lib of > > python! :) > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Mathias Panzenboeck wrote: > A other great thing: With rpy you have R bindings for python. forgive my ignorance, what's R, rpy ? Or is only relevant for Linux users ? cheers Stef > So you have the power of R and the easy syntax and big standard lib of > python! :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
A other great thing: With rpy you have R bindings for python. So you have the power of R and the easy syntax and big standard lib of python! :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
> > I'm not sure about SciPy, Yes SciPy allows it too ! but lists in standard Python allow this: > array = [1, 2, 3, 4] array[2:5] > [3, 4] > > That's generally a good thing. > You're not perhaps by origin an analog engineer ;-) cheers, Stef Mientki -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
>> MatLab: 14 msec >> Python: 2 msec > > For times this small, I wonder if timing comparisons are valid. I do > NOT think SciPy is in general an order of magnitude faster than Matlab > for the task typically performed with Matlab. The algorithm is meant for real-time analysis, where these kind of differences counts a lot. I'm also a typical "surface programmer" (don't need/want to know what's going inside), just want to get my analysis done, and the fact that Python has much more functions available, means I've to write far less explicit or implicit for loops, and thus I expect it to "look" faster for me always. > >> After taking the first difficult steps into Python, >> all kind of small problems as you already know, >> it nows seems a piece of cake to convert from MatLab to Python. >> (the final programs of MatLab and Python can almost only be >> distinguished by the comment character ;-) >> >> Especially I like: >> - more relaxed behavior of exceeded the upper limit of a (1-dimensional) >> array > > Could you explain what this means? In general, I don't want a > programming language to be "relaxed" about exceeding array bounds. > Well, I've to admit, that wasn't a very tactic remark, "noise" is still an unwanted issue in software. But in the meanwhile I've reading further and I should replace that by some other great things: - the very efficient way, comment is turned into help information - the (at first sight) very easy, but yet quit powerfull OOPs implemetation. cheers, Stef Mientki -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:35:22 -0800, Beliavsky wrote: >> Especially I like: >> - more relaxed behavior of exceeded the upper limit of a (1-dimensional) >> array > > Could you explain what this means? In general, I don't want a > programming language to be "relaxed" about exceeding array bounds. I'm not sure about SciPy, but lists in standard Python allow this: >>> array = [1, 2, 3, 4] >>> array[2:5] [3, 4] That's generally a good thing. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
Stef Mientki wrote: > hi All, > > instead of questions, > my first success story: > > I converted my first MatLab algorithm into Python (using SciPy), > and it not only works perfectly, > but also runs much faster: > > MatLab: 14 msec > Python: 2 msec For times this small, I wonder if timing comparisons are valid. I do NOT think SciPy is in general an order of magnitude faster than Matlab for the task typically performed with Matlab. > > After taking the first difficult steps into Python, > all kind of small problems as you already know, > it nows seems a piece of cake to convert from MatLab to Python. > (the final programs of MatLab and Python can almost only be > distinguished by the comment character ;-) > > Especially I like: > - more relaxed behavior of exceeded the upper limit of a (1-dimensional) > array Could you explain what this means? In general, I don't want a programming language to be "relaxed" about exceeding array bounds. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Wow, Python much faster than MatLab
hi All, instead of questions, my first success story: I converted my first MatLab algorithm into Python (using SciPy), and it not only works perfectly, but also runs much faster: MatLab: 14 msec Python: 2 msec After taking the first difficult steps into Python, all kind of small problems as you already know, it nows seems a piece of cake to convert from MatLab to Python. (the final programs of MatLab and Python can almost only be distinguished by the comment character ;-) Especially I like: - more relaxed behavior of exceeded the upper limit of a (1-dimensional) array - much more functions available, like a simple "mean" - reducing datatype if it's allowed (booleans of 1 byte) thanks for all your help, probably need some more in the future, cheers, Stef Mientki -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
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