Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ;)
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, Esoterically speaking, you should better distinguish between historic and individual time. Python's foo is like Java's foo speaks of the individual's exoteric order of experience with Python and Java, that may reverse esoteric historical chronology (and in fact, does so). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Michael Tobis wrote: Although somewhat more elegant, Python slices follow Matlab's slice notation. In simpler cases they are identical. mt I think in Matlab, as in Fortran 90, i:j refers to the elements from i up to and including j, unlike Python, where j is excluded. Another language with slicing is S, implemented in S-Plus and R. It follows the same convention as Fortran. The languages treat negative subscripts of lists and arrays differently. In Fortran, since lower bounds of arrays can be negative, a negative subscript has no special meaning. In S, where arrays start with element 1, a negative subscript means that the absolute value of the subscript is excluded, so that if array x has three elements, x[-2] refers to (x[1],x[3]). In Python, negative indices wraparound. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Aahz wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cameron Laird wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? Nesting by indentation You *do* realize this was present in ABC, among others, right? Yes. I took the question to mean what has Python made a commercial success out of that wasn't popular before, which I guess was taking quite a bit of liberty with it. But he did give us the out of hardly. I think it would be fair to say nesting by indentation hardly existed before Python. Yup. I started following up to your post exactly as Cameron did before I realized the rejoinder you were almost certain to make. So I kept my mouth shut. ;-) That's a refreshing change ;-) Long time no see! regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Love me, love my blog http://holdenweb.blogspot.com Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ;)
Wildemar Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts Wildemar that were not even inspired by other languages? I'd say Guido's willingness to borrow heavily from the best ideas present in other languages ranks right up there as one of its key concepts. Skip -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ;)
Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? wildemar -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? wildemar 1. One of the strenght of Python is that it does not try to be particularly original, most of the times it just borrows the good features from other languages without borrowing the warts. 2. If you ask in a Lisp newsgroup, they will tell you that they invented everything that it is cool now (in any language) over 40 years ago. They are also mostly right ;) Michele Simionato -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? Nesting by indentation Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
It's true that most features of python are intentionally borrowed from other languages. If I can think of anything that I believe to be specific to python, I would say it is the combination of high level datatypes together with an extremely simple syntax. Actually, this combination often results in idioms that --- although adapted from other languages --- are seldom as clear as in python. Examples for this are one-liners like x,y = y,x a,b,c = f(x) for key in my_dict : do_some_thing_with(my_dict[key]) It might be that Guido adapted such notations from ABC, a language I am not familiar with, but as far as I know, the syntactic sugar for high level datatypes is one thing that distinguishes python from other languages. - harold - -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? wildemar I find slice notation consistent and elegant - did it come form another language? Iain -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
In the Tutorial, the BFDL says: Strings can be subscripted (indexed); like in C, the first character of a string has subscript (index) 0. There is no separate character type; a character is simply a string of size one. Like in Icon, substrings can be specified with the slice notation: two indices separated by a colon. http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION00512 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Wildemar Wildenburger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Over the time I've seen lots of remarks about python that read like a lot like lists in lisp or like the hashtable in java or any other form of like feature in language. Since Python was released well before Java, saying that a feature in Python is like a feature in Java normally doesn't mean that Python imitated Java there -- it's either separate reinvention, or both of them imitating another language. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Although somewhat more elegant, Python slices follow Matlab's slice notation. In simpler cases they are identical. mt -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Why does Python have to add anything, if it makes that which came before more easily accessible/usable? Perhaps that is its innovation. Is that not sufficient? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Might the doctest modules functionality have first occured in Python? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
like the hashtable in java People don't give a reference to a language feature only because it added/invented it but also because it is a popular one that many are familiar with. Java did not invent HashTables. They existed long before and were available to most languages before Java. Neither is it even a Java programming language feature (it's a class in it's standard library). Actually, I can't think off the top of my head, any feature in the Java language (and I am making no assertions about the implementation of specific instances) that was truly innovative. But that's OK. Incremental is good. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Actually, I can't think off the top of my head, any feature in the Java language (and I am making no assertions about the implementation of specific instances) that was truly innovative. Let's see...it has bytecode compliation. Oh...not original. Okay, howsabout cross-platform neutrality? You mean there are others?! Okay...how about a humongous class library? Nah. It's tough to call Java original... Well, Java does have this great feature called market-hype... -tkc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? Nesting by indentation . . . You *do* realize this was present in ABC, among others, right? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Cameron Laird wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? Nesting by indentation . You *do* realize this was present in ABC, among others, right? Yes. I took the question to mean what has Python made a commercial success out of that wasn't popular before, which I guess was taking quite a bit of liberty with it. But he did give us the out of hardly. I think it would be fair to say nesting by indentation hardly existed before Python. Carl Banks -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cameron Laird wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Carl Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wildemar Wildenburger wrote: Are there any concepts that python has not borrowed, concepts that were not even inspired by other languages? I'm just interested if it is merely a best-of collection of language features or if there are actually inventions that have not - or hardly - existed in programming before python? Nesting by indentation You *do* realize this was present in ABC, among others, right? Yes. I took the question to mean what has Python made a commercial success out of that wasn't popular before, which I guess was taking quite a bit of liberty with it. But he did give us the out of hardly. I think it would be fair to say nesting by indentation hardly existed before Python. Yup. I started following up to your post exactly as Cameron did before I realized the rejoinder you were almost certain to make. So I kept my mouth shut. ;-) -- Aahz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. --Richard Bach -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: what has python added to programming languages? (lets be esoteric, shall we ; )
Well, Java does have this great feature called market-hype... I ... concede. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
