RE: when and how do you use Self?
Well, thanx for all the ... useful information. I thought that I would try, but this has turned out to be a waist of my time. Have fun playing with your egos -Original Message- From: Bruno Desthuilliers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:29 PM To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: when and how do you use Self? Steven D'Aprano a écrit : On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:19:03 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ? Well, you are either serious, or you're guilty of giving extremely bad advice to a newbie who will probably have even less ability to recognise an in-joke than I do. Guilty. I thought the pun would be obvious (even if very bad). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, thanx for all the ... useful information. I thought that I would try, but this has turned out to be a waist of my time. did you perhaps miss that at least three people wrote proper replies to your post? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/429472 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/429703 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/429858 (if you read the newsgroup in a threaded reader, spotting them should be relatively easy). /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: Well, thanx for all the ... useful information. I thought that I would try, but this has turned out to be a waist of my time. As with all studying, it might be somewhat time consuming to filter out the useful stuff in a sea of information. You did get correct and useful advice from two Python luminaries. If you can't see that in all the noise, it's all your loss. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD a écrit : Well, thanx for all the ... useful information. I thought that I would try, but this has turned out to be a waist of my time. Have fun playing with your egos s/your egos/words/ If you can't stand a joke (possibly very bad, but that's another point), I'd say the ego problem is on your side. In case you didn't notice, this joke was not directed to you personally. BTW, this is (usually) a very newbie-friendly newsgroup (at least when I resist the temptation to reply with stupid puns). Instead of RTFMs, you've got helpful answers by peoples like Fredrik Lundh and Alex Martelli. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? I have been reading, and haven't found a good example/explanation Bruce Tieche ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Hi, Sometimes it's hard to get a simple answer to programming questions as everyone sees different parts of the elephant. ;-) The use of self is needed because methods in class's are shared between all the instances (objects created from class's). Because of this sharing, each method in a class needs a name to receive the specific instance reference which called it. If every instance had it's own copy of all the methods in a class, we might not need 'self', but our programs would become extreme memory hogs. So sharing code is the great benefit of class's. For example... class myclass(object): def foo(self, a, b): self.c = a + b The method foo is defined but not executed until it is called later from an instance. It's located in the class, but may be called from a lot, (thousands or more), different instances made from this class. bar = myclass()# create a single instance (object) # and bind it to the name bar. Then when you do... bar.foo(1,2) # converted to - myclass(bar, 1, 2) It calls the 'foo' method located in the parent class and pass's a reference to 'bar' as the first argument. 'self' becomes the new name for bar within foo. self.c = a + b# same as - bar.c = a + b This should be enough to visualize the basic relationship. Hope it helped. Cheers, Ron -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? I have been reading, and haven't found a good example/explanation http://docs.python.org/tut is a good explanation of just about all of Python. You should read it. It explains when to use self. TonyN.:'[EMAIL PROTECTED] ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
when and how do you use Self?
I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? I have been reading, and haven't found a good example/explanation Bruce Tieche ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? I have been reading, and haven't found a good example/explanation consider a class C: class C: ... def method(self): ... print self ... C class __main__.C at 0x0091D7E0 you can create unique instances of this class by calling the class itself: a = C() a __main__.C instance at 0x00925FD0 b = C() b __main__.C instance at 0x00927030 here, a and b are two separate objects, that both refer to the same class object, but are otherwise distinct (the cryptic codes are object identities). now, if you call a method on one of those objects, Python will use the method code from the class, but the method will get a reference to the instance as its first argument (self). when you call the method via the a object, the method gets a reference to the a object as the first argument: a.method() __main__.C instance at 0x00925FD0 when you call the method via the b object, the method gets a reference to the b object as the first argument: b.method() __main__.C instance at 0x00927030 the instance object is usually used to store instance-specific variables (usually known as attributes or members). an example: class Counter: ... def __init__(self): ... self.value = 0 ... def increment(self): ... self.value = self.value + 1 ... return self.value ... a = Counter() b = Counter() a.increment() 1 a.increment() 2 a.increment() 3 b.increment() 1 (the __init__ method is automatically called for each new instance) you can also access the instance attributes from the outside: print a.value 3 print b.value 1 for more on this, see: http://docs.python.org/tut/node11.html#SECTION001130 /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote:
I am new to python,
Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self?
Don't use self. Use other.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
As a point of style: the 'other' identifier should only be used in
Zen Metaclass programming as an implicit reference to the calling
object or as a list of references to all other instances of the class.
Context will make it both clear and obvious which use case is
desired.
On 03/11/05, bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote:
I am new to python,
Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self?
Don't use self. Use other.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
--
A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only
a fool trusts either of them. -- P. J. O'Rourke
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Chris Cioffi wrote:
ot
as a point of style, top-posting is a Bad Thing(tm)
(fixed)
/ot
On 03/11/05, bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote:
I am new to python,
Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self?
Don't use self. Use other.
As a point of style: the 'other' identifier should only be used in
Zen Metaclass programming as an implicit reference to the calling
object or as a list of references to all other instances of the class.
As a point of style, if it refers to a list, it should be 'others' and
not 'other'.
Also, this was supposed to be a joke. I can well understand that my sens
of humour is somewhat disastrous and that this was not a _good_ joke,
but context should have made both clear and obvious that it was one.
Context will make it both clear and obvious which use case is
desired.
import this
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:48:28 -0500, Chris Cioffi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a point of style: the 'other' identifier should only be used in Zen Metaclass programming as an implicit reference to the calling object or as a list of references to all other instances of the class. Context will make it both clear and obvious which use case is desired. Can I use the 'other' identifier in, e.g., an __add__ method? Please? ;-) Regards, Dan -- Dan Sommers http://www.tombstonezero.net/dan/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? You don't recommend doing this? def MyClass: def __init__(self, x): self.x = x ??? -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote:
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote:
I am new to python,
Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self?
Don't use self. Use other.
Are you serious?
Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ?
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
bruno at modulix [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ? Hmmm... I hope there's no deadlock in this loop... -- Jorge Godoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
bruno at modulix wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ? I was also wondering. What's the problem you see with the identifier self? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:19:03 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ? Well, you are either serious, or you're guilty of giving extremely bad advice to a newbie who will probably have even less ability to recognise an in-joke than I do. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Jeffrey Schwab a écrit : bruno at modulix wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ? I was also wondering. You shouldn't. What's the problem you see with the identifier self? It's just to sale fish... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Steven D'Aprano a écrit : On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:19:03 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:14:23 +0100, bruno at modulix wrote: Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD wrote: I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? Don't use self. Use other. Are you serious? Are you seriously wondering if I am serious ? Well, you are either serious, or you're guilty of giving extremely bad advice to a newbie who will probably have even less ability to recognise an in-joke than I do. Guilty. I thought the pun would be obvious (even if very bad). -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: when and how do you use Self?
Tieche Bruce A MSgt USMTM/AFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I am new to python, Could someone explain (in English) how and when to use self? A class's methods use 'self' to refer to the object (instance of the class) they're being called on; mostly, they access (get or set) attributes on self, and/or call other methods on self. I hope that's English enough for you. Here's a simple example: class Struggle(object): def __init__(self, value): self.value = value def __str__(self): return 'Struggle(%r)' % self.value Class Struggle has two (special) methods, an initializer and a transformer to string. Each uses 'self' to refer to the instance on which it's being called -- specifically, to set or get the 'value' attribute. So, when I code: x = Struggle(23) print x I obtain the output: Struggle(23) In this case, the 'self' inside each method refers to the same object to which the name 'x' refers ``on the outside''. Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
