Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] [ann] MacPythonOSA 0.1.0
Bob wrote: Python over IPC is going to be way faster than AppleScript ever was. Python+aem's actually a bit slower than AppleScript given most of the data conversion and event packing/unpacking is done in Python rather than C. Yes, the brokering of messages to and from an application may be marginally faster in AS, but everything else is slow. Yep, the AS language itself is slow, but I don't care about AS being crap - I care about MacPythonOSA being not-crap. :) How big and complex a job would you guess a Mach messaging-based system would be, given the requirements above? You really shouldn't do mach directly, use sockets. Apple events use mach ports to do IPC on a single machine anyway. Further proof that this task _definitely_ needs to be done by somebody other than me. :) Yep. The next question is how significant these limitations would be for users, given the types of tasks OSA languages are actually used for (a fairly small list)? PyObjC support *is* a big deal. Presumably people will be wanting to call into Mac OS X APIs from scripts that run in Mac applications! Some will, some won't. (Those that do could just stuff the PyObjC bits into a scriptable FBA and call it from their OSA script. So it's not like it'd be impossible, just lame.) Lots of useful OSA scripts are actually quite trivial code-wise. Anyway... Truth to tell, after a month spent swearing at the atrocious lack of documentation on implementing OSA components, right now I don't really care much for dealing with the braindeadedness of the Python C API as well. I just want to get _something_ stuffed in there so I can call the project finished and kick it out the door; leave other folks to make improvements in their own time. I'll even kick it out with zero script insulation, no concurrent execution support and a big fat health warning if nothing decent turns up. Though if someone want to step up and give me an ETA on a code patch that'll meet the necessary requirements by whatever means they like, please do; it would be much better for users if MacPythonOSA could ship with a permanent solution already in place. Either way though I want it out the door soon; I've already got enough 18 month-old slam-dunk projects on my books as it is. :p Redirecting I/O at all sounds like a bad idea in the first place. Because 'print' in Python serves pretty much the same purpose as 'log' in AppleScript So put something in the script's namespace that's called log and make it do what log does. Thought of that, but 'print' feels natural from the end-user's POV and 'log' does not. Duplicating existing functionality simply to avoid doing a bit of extra work is just a copout; it's the developer's problem to make the users' lives easy, not vice-versa. Cheers, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython 2.4.1 and GTK+
Maybe these old eyes are just missing it, but I can't seem to satisfy my curiosity on the following: 1) Use of GTK+, PyGTK and Gazpacho with Python 2.4 in general 2) GTK+, PyGTK and Gazpacho binaries for Mac OS X in general and more specifically for MacPython 2.4.1 3) wxPython vs GTK+ as a starting point for developing multimedia apps (for building sophisticated multimedia presentations) potentially for cross platform - opinions anyone or maybe another course? Thanks, Lee C PS Regarding my earlier posts waffling on an IDE, I've settled in with WingIDE. Thanks for all your comments and opinions. ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Re: ANN: MacEnthon 0.1
Actually, I was wondering how safe it would be to install MacEnthon if I already had a significant number of these packages installed? You could probably hack the uninstall script to just scan for what's already there, and run it before installing MacEnthon, so you know what it is going to overwrite - that's what I'm planning to do (I know I've added some stuff like wx and appscript, but I'm sure I've added other little bits that I've forgotten) but it is low on my list just now... ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] PyOXIDE wishes?
Sometime between now and WWDC, I'm planning on coming out with a major update for PyOXIDE http://projects.gandreas.com/pyoxide, and was wondering what sort of functionality others have been hoping for. Right now the list is largely bug fix related: Folding improvements Better tracking of breakpoints during editing A few crashes on initial saves/quits Update the PyOXIDE homepage and only a few new features: Out of process interactive interpreter support (which should allow interactive interpreters using a different version of python) Non Blocking debugger (hopefully - this is the big ugly since it requires some interesting threading support) So if you're looking for features/support, now's the time to ask... Glenn Andreas [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gandreas.com/ oh my! quadrium | build, mutate, evolve | images, textures, backgrounds, art ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyOXIDE wishes?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometime between now and WWDC, I'm planning on coming out with a major update for PyOXIDE http://projects.gandreas.com/pyoxide Glenn, I'm sure you've seen the recent threads her bemoaning the lack of good tools (particularly open-source ones) for newbies developing with Python on OS-X. PyOxide seems to be the obvious candidate for filling that void of a Mac-like IDE. I haven't tested it for a while, but it seems that bugs are the biggest issue, rather than missing features. Robustness is FAR more important that features, except to marketing folks. That being said: Right now the list is largely bug fix related: Very good news--focus on that! and only a few new features: Out of process interactive interpreter support (which should allow interactive interpreters using a different version of python) This is the only new feature I encourage you to support. Different versions of Python are nice, but not critical, but running the user's code out-of-process is very important. As others on this list have mentioned (Bob I., in particular, a voice to be listened to), an IDE that runs the user code in the same interpreter as the IDE is dead in the water as a serious tool. That is the ONE thing that kept me from using PythonWin, the old IDLE, and MacPython IDE. Good luck, I'm very much looking forward to being able to recommend a robust IDE for OS-X. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/ORR/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyOXIDE wishes?
On Apr 12, 2005, at 8:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometime between now and WWDC, I'm planning on coming out with a major update for PyOXIDE http://projects.gandreas.com/pyoxide, and was wondering what sort of functionality others have been hoping for. Right now the list is largely bug fix related: Folding improvements Better tracking of breakpoints during editing A few crashes on initial saves/quits Update the PyOXIDE homepage and only a few new features: Out of process interactive interpreter support (which should allow interactive interpreters using a different version of python) Non Blocking debugger (hopefully - this is the big ugly since it requires some interesting threading support) So if you're looking for features/support, now's the time to ask... If you write the debugger the same way you write the out of process interpreter, which you should, you don't have the threading problem any more. -bob ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] webcam snapshot from Python
There is a win32 project http://videocapture.sourceforge.net/ But on Mac Quicktime know how to grab picture from a webcam. HackTV seams to be a nice example for that. How can i take a picture (not a movie) from a webcam with macPython? I wait for QuickTime 7 and i use AppleEvents? M. ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] Hide application icon
HI folks, I'm writing a statusbar app and don't want an icon to show up in the Dock. What is the correct way to hide/remove the icon? --Dethe What dark passions and ancient evils have been held in check by the grim totalitarianism of the profit motive? --Bruce Sterling smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyOXIDE wishes?
hi probaly stupid request, but just wanted to say that on my spanish mac i cannot get the [ at all, so i am always copying and pasting from somewhere else. thanks. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometime between now and WWDC, I'm planning on coming out with a major update for PyOXIDE http://projects.gandreas.com/pyoxide, and was wondering what sort of functionality others have been hoping for. Right now the list is largely bug fix related: Folding improvements Better tracking of breakpoints during editing A few crashes on initial saves/quits Update the PyOXIDE homepage and only a few new features: Out of process interactive interpreter support (which should allow interactive interpreters using a different version of python) Non Blocking debugger (hopefully - this is the big ugly since it requires some interesting threading support) So if you're looking for features/support, now's the time to ask... Glenn Andreas [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gandreas.com/ oh my! quadrium | build, mutate, evolve | images, textures, backgrounds, art ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig -- enrike ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Hide application icon
Hi Dethe Elza: I'm writing a statusbar app and don't want an icon to show up in the Dock. What is the correct way to hide/remove the icon? set LSUIElement to 1 in your info.plist http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ BPRuntimeConfig/Concepts/PListKeys.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001431/ TPXREF136 ciao Martina ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Hide application icon
Thanks! I thought I'd tried that, but my Info.plist wasn't getting picked up. I blew away dist/ and build/ and rebuilt with -P Info.plist and it worked. I'll work up a simple statusbar example for the PyObjC examples if there's any interest. --Dethe On 12-Apr-05, at 12:59 PM, Martina Oefelein wrote: Hi Dethe Elza: I'm writing a statusbar app and don't want an icon to show up in the Dock. What is the correct way to hide/remove the icon? set LSUIElement to 1 in your info.plist http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ BPRuntimeConfig/Concepts/PListKeys.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001431/ TPXREF136 ciao Martina Email is where knowledge goes to die. --Bill French smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Hide application icon
On Apr 12, 2005, at 1:46 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: On 12-Apr-05, at 12:59 PM, Martina Oefelein wrote: Hi Dethe Elza: I'm writing a statusbar app and don't want an icon to show up in the Dock. What is the correct way to hide/remove the icon? set LSUIElement to 1 in your info.plist http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ BPRuntimeConfig/Concepts/PListKeys.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001431/ TPXREF136 Thanks! I thought I'd tried that, but my Info.plist wasn't getting picked up. I blew away dist/ and build/ and rebuilt with -P Info.plist and it worked. I'll work up a simple statusbar example for the PyObjC examples if there's any interest. Yes please.. if you do it soon, I'll throw it in the next release of PyObjC. -bob ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Pythonmac-SIG Digest, Vol 24, Issue 23
OK I'll bite The crash-fixes, and out-of-process debugger are by far the most important improvements. I think anything else you accomplish after that is gravy There are some UI issues I'd like cleaned up eventually. For instance: - I have no idea what the IDE console does, and it's a confusing thing to display as the default app window. A more HIG-compliant behaviour would be to display a blank editor window, with perhaps an interactive session behind. - The editor window should remember my view settings between sessions (ie, whether I displayed lines, invisible characters etc) - I would love a tree-view pane of classes and functions in an open module. The treeview that comes with Mark Hammonds Pythonwin even displays inherited class methods, which is really handy for opening new files - When debugging, an uncaught exception should not only display the stack trace, but also the state of all local variables at each level in the stack. I can send you a screenshot of RealBasic's debugger to give you an idea of how intuitive this interface is. - There's a white vertical bar at the right edge of your (otherwise really attractive) application icon. - What's a module browser? That's all I can come up with on the top of my head. I haven't had much chance to use PyOxide that much because the version I have crashes before I can get it to run any of my scripts. I look forward to your revision! -Brendan -- Brendan Simons On 12-Apr-05, at 2:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Chris Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: April 12, 2005 12:31:02 PM EDT To: pythonmac-sig@python.org Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] PyOXIDE wishes? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometime between now and WWDC, I'm planning on coming out with a major update for PyOXIDE http://projects.gandreas.com/pyoxide Glenn, I'm sure you've seen the recent threads her bemoaning the lack of good tools (particularly open-source ones) for newbies developing with Python on OS-X. PyOxide seems to be the obvious candidate for filling that void of a Mac-like IDE. I haven't tested it for a while, but it seems that bugs are the biggest issue, rather than missing features. Robustness is FAR more important that features, except to marketing folks. That being said: Right now the list is largely bug fix related: Very good news--focus on that! and only a few new features: Out of process interactive interpreter support (which should allow interactive interpreters using a different version of python) This is the only new feature I encourage you to support. Different versions of Python are nice, but not critical, but running the user's code out-of-process is very important. As others on this list have mentioned (Bob I., in particular, a voice to be listened to), an IDE that runs the user code in the same interpreter as the IDE is dead in the water as a serious tool. That is the ONE thing that kept me from using PythonWin, the old IDLE, and MacPython IDE. Good luck, I'm very much looking forward to being able to recommend a robust IDE for OS-X. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/ORR/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
