Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
On Tue, Aug 09, 2011 at 11:35:11PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote: > On 9 August 2011 22:42, Ned Deily wrote: > Hmm... for 3.2 and 2.7 I was using Activestate installers not Python.org > ones - so perhaps it's their bug (in which case sorry for the noise). Nope - this is from a new Mac mini that shipped with Lion and has not had any non-system Pythons installed: bookworm% ls -ld /Library/Python/*/site-packages drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 136 Jun 25 08:05 /Library/Python/2.3/site-packages drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 102 Jul 2 17:08 /Library/Python/2.5/site-packages drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 102 Jul 2 17:08 /Library/Python/2.6/site-packages drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 102 Jul 2 17:08 /Library/Python/2.7/site-packages I'd say if any of the python.org or ActiveState Python installers mess with these directories' ownership or permissions, they're doing something wrong. While the contents of these directories is up to the user, their permissions are part of the OS install. > Many folders in the System domain that were previously owned by > the admingroup are now owned by the wheel group. This isn't quite right (the "System domain" means /System); it's the part a bit later that says "All subdirectories within /Library now have mode 755 (writable only by root) permissions instead of mode 775 (writable by the admin group) except... [a bunch of directories that do not include Python]". Anyway, the workaround is simple enough - and yeah, still pretty necessary to install pip/virtualenv themselves. -- Nicholas Riley ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
In article , Ned Deily wrote: > In article , > Ned Deily wrote: > > > In article > > , > > Michael Foord wrote: > > > I don't believe that is actually the case in Lion due to the changes > > > pointed > > > out by Nicholas. > > Odd! So far, this works for me on Lion with the current python.org > > installer (3.2.1 at least). Perhaps you can be more specific about > > exactly how to reproduce what has changed for you. > > Ah, a thought! I have been testing with a vanilla Lion system with a > freshly-installed python.org Pythons. In that case, the permissions of > the files in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework are being set as > specified by the python.org installer. Perhaps you are using a > python.org Python that was on a system upgraded from Snow Leopard? In > that case, the Apple upgrade process may have mucked with the > permissions of the existing files. Reinstalling using the python.org > installers would likely take care of that. But it is something we > should document and or consider changing. Yes, reinstalling Python using the python.org installer fixes it because the installer's post-install script simply does a chgrp -R admin and chgrp -R g+w to the version it installed. That should be non-destructive, i.e. existing packages installed in site-packages should not disturbed so, if a user is not comfortable with the command line, reinstalling with a python.org installer after an upgrade to Lion is viable. Also, because the permissions are set this way rather than explicitly in an installer bom, the Disk Utility.app (or diskutil) Repair Permissions function doesn't help for this. On my high-priority list of things to do is to update the "Using Python on a Macintosh" section of the "Python Setup and Usage" standard doc as well as http://www.python.org/download/mac/ both of which are very out-of-date. There is the new http://www.python.org/download/mac/tcltk/ which I have been keeping up-to-date. Somewhere in there or in the wiki should be a section on upgrading which could include things like this. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
On 9 August 2011 22:42, Ned Deily wrote: > In article , > Ned Deily wrote: > > > In article > > , > > Michael Foord wrote: > > > I don't believe that is actually the case in Lion due to the changes > > > pointed > > > out by Nicholas. > > Odd! So far, this works for me on Lion with the current python.org > > installer (3.2.1 at least). Perhaps you can be more specific about > > exactly how to reproduce what has changed for you. > > Ah, a thought! I have been testing with a vanilla Lion system with a > freshly-installed python.org Pythons. In that case, the permissions of > the files in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework are being set as > specified by the python.org installer. Perhaps you are using a > python.org Python that was on a system upgraded from Snow Leopard? In > that case, the Apple upgrade process may have mucked with the > permissions of the existing files. Reinstalling using the python.org > installers would likely take care of that. But it is something we > should document and or consider changing. > Hmm... for 3.2 and 2.7 I was using Activestate installers not Python.org ones - so perhaps it's their bug (in which case sorry for the noise). Michael > > -- > Ned Deily, > n...@acm.org > > ___ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
In article , Ned Deily wrote: > In article > , > Michael Foord wrote: > > I don't believe that is actually the case in Lion due to the changes > > pointed > > out by Nicholas. > Odd! So far, this works for me on Lion with the current python.org > installer (3.2.1 at least). Perhaps you can be more specific about > exactly how to reproduce what has changed for you. Ah, a thought! I have been testing with a vanilla Lion system with a freshly-installed python.org Pythons. In that case, the permissions of the files in /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework are being set as specified by the python.org installer. Perhaps you are using a python.org Python that was on a system upgraded from Snow Leopard? In that case, the Apple upgrade process may have mucked with the permissions of the existing files. Reinstalling using the python.org installers would likely take care of that. But it is something we should document and or consider changing. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
In article , Michael Foord wrote: > On 9 August 2011 20:42, Ned Deily wrote: > > > In article > > , > > Michael Foord wrote: > > > I've installed Python on OS X Lion on two computers - one with Lion > > > preinstalled and one upgraded from Snow Leopard. I used both Python.org > > and > > > Activestate installers. > > > > > > In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and > > the > > > installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. > > > installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. > > > > > > This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it > > an > > > issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) > > > > I can't speak to the ActiveState installer but for the python.org > > installers installation has always required a username with > > administrator privilege. That hasn't changed in Lion. And, even though > > owned by root, when logged in via an admin username, you should be able > > to install packages to its default location (using python setup.py or > > easy_install or pip) without sudo. > > > I don't believe that is actually the case in Lion due to the changes pointed > out by Nicholas. Odd! So far, this works for me on Lion with the current python.org installer (3.2.1 at least). Perhaps you can be more specific about exactly how to reproduce what has changed for you. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
On 9 August 2011 20:42, Ned Deily wrote: > In article > , > Michael Foord wrote: > > I've installed Python on OS X Lion on two computers - one with Lion > > preinstalled and one upgraded from Snow Leopard. I used both Python.org > and > > Activestate installers. > > > > In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and > the > > installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. > > installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. > > > > This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it > an > > issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) > > I can't speak to the ActiveState installer but for the python.org > installers installation has always required a username with > administrator privilege. That hasn't changed in Lion. And, even though > owned by root, when logged in via an admin username, you should be able > to install packages to its default location (using python setup.py or > easy_install or pip) without sudo. I don't believe that is actually the case in Lion due to the changes pointed out by Nicholas. All the best, Michael > The default site-packages directory > for python.org installations is: > > cd /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/x.y/ > ls ./lib/pythonx.y/site-packages > ls ./bin # for scripts > > If you are using easy_install, make sure you aren't using the > Apple-supplied easy_installs in /usr/bin which are for the system > Pythons (2.7, 2.6, and 2.5 in OS X 10.7). They will, by default, > attempt to install into /Library/Python/2.y and /usr/local/bin for > scripts and that *does* need sudo. > > -- > Ned Deily, > n...@acm.org > > ___ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
On 9 August 2011 20:00, Nicholas Riley wrote: > On Tue, Aug 09, 2011 at 06:21:17PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote: > > In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and > the > > installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. > > installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. > > > > This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it > an > > issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) > > Yes, it's an intentional decision, made for security reasons: > > > http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/MacOSX/WhatsNewInOSX/Articles/MacOSX10_7.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010355-SW16 > > Right, I believe this is the specific change: - Many folders in the System domain that were previously owned by the admingroup are now owned by the wheel group. Nothing we can do about it then I guess. Thanks. > The only inconsistent part is that /Library/Java is still > admin-writable; /Library/Java/Extensions contains jars which end up on > the classpath of all Java applications, so not allowing the equivalent > thing for Python seems a bit strange. This might just be linked to > the removal of Java as part of the base system, though. > > You could only install Python packages as an admin user (without sudo) > if they didn't try to create any scripts, which ended up in > /usr/local/bin which isn't admin-writable even on Snow Leopard. > > Now I just install everything in a virtualenv and am generally > happier. > Well yes, but that means you probably need pip and virtualenv as a minimum. It was installing these that I noticed the difference. Michael > > -- > Nicholas Riley > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
In article , Ned Deily wrote: > In article > , > Michael Foord wrote: > > I've installed Python on OS X Lion on two computers - one with Lion > > preinstalled and one upgraded from Snow Leopard. I used both Python.org and > > Activestate installers. > > > > In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and the > > installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. > > installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. > > > > This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it an > > issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) > > I can't speak to the ActiveState installer but for the python.org > installers installation has always required a username with > administrator privilege. That hasn't changed in Lion. And, even though > owned by root, when logged in via an admin username, you should be able > to install packages to its default location (using python setup.py or > easy_install or pip) without sudo. The default site-packages directory > for python.org installations is: > > cd /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/x.y/ > ls ./lib/pythonx.y/site-packages > ls ./bin # for scripts > > If you are using easy_install, make sure you aren't using the > Apple-supplied easy_installs in /usr/bin which are for the system > Pythons (2.7, 2.6, and 2.5 in OS X 10.7). They will, by default, > attempt to install into /Library/Python/2.y and /usr/local/bin for > scripts and that *does* need sudo. Just to clarify: to install Python itself using a python.org installer requires entering an admin user name and password using the standard OS X GUI installer or "sudo installer" if using the command line OS X installer. But if you are running under a user with admin priv you shouldn't need to use sudo to install Distutils-based packages (via setup.py, easy_install, etc) with the python.org installed Pythons. As far as I know, there is no difference in this behavior between Lion, Snow Leopard, or Leopard. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
In article , Michael Foord wrote: > I've installed Python on OS X Lion on two computers - one with Lion > preinstalled and one upgraded from Snow Leopard. I used both Python.org and > Activestate installers. > > In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and the > installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. > installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. > > This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it an > issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) I can't speak to the ActiveState installer but for the python.org installers installation has always required a username with administrator privilege. That hasn't changed in Lion. And, even though owned by root, when logged in via an admin username, you should be able to install packages to its default location (using python setup.py or easy_install or pip) without sudo. The default site-packages directory for python.org installations is: cd /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/x.y/ ls ./lib/pythonx.y/site-packages ls ./bin # for scripts If you are using easy_install, make sure you aren't using the Apple-supplied easy_installs in /usr/bin which are for the system Pythons (2.7, 2.6, and 2.5 in OS X 10.7). They will, by default, attempt to install into /Library/Python/2.y and /usr/local/bin for scripts and that *does* need sudo. -- Ned Deily, n...@acm.org ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
On Tue, Aug 09, 2011 at 06:21:17PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote: > In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and the > installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. > installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. > > This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it an > issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) Yes, it's an intentional decision, made for security reasons: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/releasenotes/MacOSX/WhatsNewInOSX/Articles/MacOSX10_7.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010355-SW16 The only inconsistent part is that /Library/Java is still admin-writable; /Library/Java/Extensions contains jars which end up on the classpath of all Java applications, so not allowing the equivalent thing for Python seems a bit strange. This might just be linked to the removal of Java as part of the base system, though. You could only install Python packages as an admin user (without sudo) if they didn't try to create any scripts, which ended up in /usr/local/bin which isn't admin-writable even on Snow Leopard. Now I just install everything in a virtualenv and am generally happier. -- Nicholas Riley ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
On 8/9/11 1:21 PM, Michael Foord wrote: This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it an issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) I don't believe it is a change. /Library and /System/Library are owned by the system, not you. -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
[Pythonmac-SIG] Ownership of installed Python on Mac
Hey folks, I've installed Python on OS X Lion on two computers - one with Lion preinstalled and one upgraded from Snow Leopard. I used both Python.org and Activestate installers. In all cases (I'm pretty sure) the installation required elevation and the installed Python was 'owned' by root - meaning any changes (e.g. installation into site-packages) must be sudo'd. This is a change from previous versions of OS X. Is this known, and is it an issue? (I chown'd everything back to me to get round it.) All the best, Michael -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
