Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other?
Am 10.07.2013, 11:35 Uhr, schrieb Paul Wiseman : Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at a few to help weigh up my options. Adobe Photoshop used to be touted as a QT app - I think QT is anything big that is multi-platform. But, please don't take my word for it. Charlie -- Charlie Clark Managing Director Clark Consulting & Research German Office Kronenstr. 27a Düsseldorf D- 40217 Tel: +49-211-600-3657 Mobile: +49-178-782-6226 ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other?
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: > I've used wxpython a lot in the past, and maintain some code that uses it > and I do like it, there are a couple of bits that have put me off though. > There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to implement an MVC type pattern > with it. I" ve always felt that: 1) slavishly following MVC is pretty pointless 2) to the extent you do follow it, it's very application-specific, so I"ve never quite understood what an out-of-the-box MVC framework would look like. 3) You can certainly do it with wx. > I haven't used Qt much at all yet but QML looks extremely > interesting and pretty powerful. there is the XRC format, but when looking at it, it looks like it jsut makes things more complicated -- decoupling strictly GUI code and belongs-with-the-GUI code seems pointless to me. And I really like code-generated GUI layout. I suspect that that approach makes much more sense with C++ than Python. > This signal and slots in qt reminds me a > lot of the outlet actions in the iOS world as well which helps a lot at > keeping everything de-coupled. I haven't used signals and slots, but I agree that wx events are bit stifling. A number of folks recommend pubsub for a more de-coupled approach. > I've found an awful lot of bugs with wx over > the time I've been using it as well which has put me off somewhat, but > that's probably true for a lot of systems/frameworks of that size that you > get very familiar with and use a lot. Well, wx definately doesn't get as much attention on the Mac -- I've seen more issues there. Maybe QT gets more love -- what with KDE and all, it probably has a significantly larger user/developer base. -CHB -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other?
>> Do you know any Qt apps for mac? > > There are lots of Qt apps with Mac ports; most are crappy because they make > little effort to get the Mac UI details right. I think QGIS falls into that camp... http://www.qgis.org/ > VirtualBox and Parallels are > two Qt apps that do a better job with the UI. If done right, I suppose you shouldn't know it's a QT app. So I may have bias from that. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other?
On 7/10/13 5:35 AM, Paul Wiseman wrote: Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at a few to help weigh up my options. There are lots of Qt apps with Mac ports; most are crappy because they make little effort to get the Mac UI details right. VirtualBox and Parallels are two Qt apps that do a better job with the UI. --Kevin -- Kevin Walzer Code by Kevin/Mobile Code by Kevin http://www.codebykevin.com http://www.wtmobilesoftware.com ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other?
On 9 July 2013 17:12, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal wrote: > oops, sent only to Paul the first time > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal > > Paul, > > > Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure > > about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will > use > > carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. > > Personally I've used wxPython for years -- it would be a good option > as well (and does use Cocoa under the hood in recent versions, so > injecting some custom Ma-only code in there is quite doable. > > A lot of folks like QT a lot, it may be a good way to go -- honestly, > I've stuck with wx mostly due to inertia -- never really considering > alternatives. > > I've used wxpython a lot in the past, and maintain some code that uses it and I do like it, there are a couple of bits that have put me off though. There doesn't seem to be an obvious way to implement an MVC type pattern with it. I haven't used Qt much at all yet but QML looks extremely interesting and pretty powerful. This signal and slots in qt reminds me a lot of the outlet actions in the iOS world as well which helps a lot at keeping everything de-coupled. I've found an awful lot of bugs with wx over the time I've been using it as well which has put me off somewhat, but that's probably true for a lot of systems/frameworks of that size that you get very familiar with and use a lot. > However, there is a key design difference -- wx wraps the native > widgets, and QT, for the most part, re-implements them with low-level > primitives. So while a QT Window is probably a Cocoa Window, the > individual buttons, etc are not native. I don't know to what extent > you can override this, but I do know that most of the QT apps I've > seen on the Mac are not very native: not even using the native file > open dialogs and the like. I'd be shocked if you couldn't do better > with some care, but QT does not appear to do a very good job of native > out of the box. > Do you know any Qt apps for mac? It would be quite useful to take a look at a few to help weigh up my options. > > wxPython requires a bit of care to look and feel truly native as well, > but it gets closer by default. > > IIUC, PySide is essentially an alternative to PyQT with a different > (more liberal) licence. It is certainly under active development. For > example, Enthought, Inc is relying on it for a lot of their stuff, and > has hired Robin Dunn (ironically the wxPython founder/developer) to > work on it. There was a sprint at last weeks' SciPy conference as > well. > > If you do want to cal native code, PYObjC is likely the easiest way, > but if that doesn't look right to you, Cython may be worth a shot -- > it's a good way to call C and C++ APIs. > > HTH, > -Chris > > -- > > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > Emergency Response Division > NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > chris.bar...@noaa.gov > > > -- > > Christopher Barker, Ph.D. > Oceanographer > > Emergency Response Division > NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice > 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax > Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception > > chris.bar...@noaa.gov > ___ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
[Pythonmac-SIG] Fwd: Can any cross platform gui framework limitations be filled with ctypes / pyobjc or other?
oops, sent only to Paul the first time -- Forwarded message -- From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal Paul, > Qt looks great from my first impressions but one thing I'm not too sure > about is how native it can go, I know the controls are native and will use > carbon/cocoa underneath on mac for example. Personally I've used wxPython for years -- it would be a good option as well (and does use Cocoa under the hood in recent versions, so injecting some custom Ma-only code in there is quite doable. A lot of folks like QT a lot, it may be a good way to go -- honestly, I've stuck with wx mostly due to inertia -- never really considering alternatives. However, there is a key design difference -- wx wraps the native widgets, and QT, for the most part, re-implements them with low-level primitives. So while a QT Window is probably a Cocoa Window, the individual buttons, etc are not native. I don't know to what extent you can override this, but I do know that most of the QT apps I've seen on the Mac are not very native: not even using the native file open dialogs and the like. I'd be shocked if you couldn't do better with some care, but QT does not appear to do a very good job of native out of the box. wxPython requires a bit of care to look and feel truly native as well, but it gets closer by default. IIUC, PySide is essentially an alternative to PyQT with a different (more liberal) licence. It is certainly under active development. For example, Enthought, Inc is relying on it for a lot of their stuff, and has hired Robin Dunn (ironically the wxPython founder/developer) to work on it. There was a sprint at last weeks' SciPy conference as well. If you do want to cal native code, PYObjC is likely the easiest way, but if that doesn't look right to you, Cython may be worth a shot -- it's a good way to call C and C++ APIs. HTH, -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R(206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception chris.bar...@noaa.gov ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG
