[Pythonmac-SIG] We are keeping pythonmac-sig.

[Jack Jansen via Pythonmac-SIG]

Ok folks,
There seems to be enough interest to keep the list, and it isn’t enough of a 
burden on me.

We’ve now moved to mailman 3.

Regards,
Jack

> On 21 May 2025, at 22:27, gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On May 16, 2025, at 6:52 PM, Matthew Dixon Cowles  wrote:
>> 
>> Jack,
>> 
>>> I just got a mail from the Python mailman server admin that they
>>> will shortly be upgrading the mailman server, and the question is
>>> whether to keep the Pythonmac-SIG mailing list alive or archive it.
>> 
>>> Personally I don’t mind archiving it, we've had about 2-4
>>> messages per year over the last years.
>> 
>> I think that the fact that there isn't a lot of traffic should be
>> taken as a sign of success. You and the other people who work on the
>> releases deserve a lot of credit.
>> 
>> For myself, I'm glad that there's a place where it's possible to get
>> the attention of the platform experts because very occasionally a
>> platform issue comes up. For example, a month ago we got a question
>> over on the python-help list about Python for Windows on ARM and it
>> was a little trouble tracking down someone who could answer it. (In
>> case anyone's curious: Python for Windows on ARM isn't on Microsoft's
>> store because few binary modules are compiled for it and Microsoft
>> doesn't want users to be mad and/or confused when, for example, "pip
>> install pandas" doesn't work for it.)
>> 
>> That said, I don't much mind whether that place is here on this list
>> or over on a section of the PSF's web board. I tend to like mailing
>> lists a little more, but that's a very minor thing.
> 
> Similarly, I'd like for there to be somewhere to go, and the list is 
> convenient, but as long as the archiving comes along with an official 
> designation of a thread on the Discourse board or something, that's all I 
> would need to be happy.
> 
> -g
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[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Concerns about the Python library appscript

[Jack Jansen via Pythonmac-SIG]

Thanks for the positive news!

I really loved OSA at the time, and I’ve used it extensively.

But the last two things I wanted to automate failed utterly. Photos still has 
something of a dictionary, but you can do little more than control a slide 
show. No way to do usable searches (like “any photo taken in such-and-such an 
area in December”). And Mainstage has no dictionary at all (and _that_ would be 
an absolutely wonderful app to control). Logic Pro has a dictionary but it 
allows little more than closing a window.

ince then I’ve sort-of given up on it. But I’ll at least try again if I want to 
automate something.

Jack

> On 22 Aug 2025, at 18:33, gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2025, at 2:54 AM, Jack Jansen via Pythonmac-SIG 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think your out of luck:
>> 
>> https://appscript.sourceforge.io/status.html
>> 
> 
> While appscript is not seeing new features, it's more "done" than 
> "unmaintained".  hhas seems to do new builds for new operating systems and 
> updates for new versions of Python. I'm using it quite successfully on python 
> 3.13 and Sequoia, 13 years after this message went up, and 10 years after 
> (allegedly) "Apple eliminated its Mac Automation department".
> 
> I wouldn't base a major new business on it or anything but it always bugs me 
> to see folks scared away from this perfectly usable automation technology 
> with vague fearmongering about its future, 15 years into that "future" being 
> declared dead and gone.
> 
>> Also, note that AppleScript itself (or actually I should probably say OSA) 
>> is as good as dead, unfortunately.
>> 
>> 
>> Apple doesn’t actively support it anymore, and new programs don’t seem to 
>> get any OSA support…
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "actively support it"? The "Privacy & Security -> 
> Automation" access control integration with the new security model is only a 
> few years old at this point.  New applications like Shortcuts have OSA 
> support. 3rd party apps like Acorn and OmniFocus have good scripting 
> integration, and first-party stuff like Pages/Numbers/Xcode also have good 
> integration that are hard to access in other ways.
> 
> For what it works for, OSA is fine. People have been saying it's dead for 
> like 15 years now, but it still works great and has much nicer, finer-grained 
> security tools than it used to.  It's probably not the future of any big new 
> automation push. That will be Shortcuts, and, ugh, "Apple Intelligence". But 
> I strongly suspect that once OpenAI goes bust and Siri's ChatGPT integration 
> stops working, we'll still have AppleScript.
> 
>>> On 20 Aug 2025, at 10:07, Thia Clay  wrote:
>>> 
>>> is the Python library appscript still developing? if so, how can I build 
>>> the wheel with GCC in Windows?
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>> 
>> 
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[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Concerns about the Python library appscript

[Jack Jansen via Pythonmac-SIG]

[Jack donning his boring-old-fart hat]

The thing is, when Apple came up with this stuff in the late 1990s, if 
developers had adopted it it would have made their life _so much easier_. 
Because really a lot of the business logic of their own app could have been 
expressed in OSA, leading to much cleaner separation between 
model/view/controller and how the business logic and the UI connect….

And COM/OLE was a far cry from OSA, but actually it was still somewhat usable, 
and with somewhat the same goals...

But that ship has sailed (or that bridge has been burned, whatever)….


> On 25 Aug 2025, at 04:42, Greg Ewing  wrote:
> 
> On 25/08/25 7:56 am, Jack Jansen via Pythonmac-SIG wrote:
>> But the last two things I wanted to automate failed utterly. Photos still 
>> has something of a dictionary, but you can do little more than control a 
>> slide show. No way to do usable searches (like “any photo taken in 
>> such-and-such an area in December”). And Mainstage has no dictionary at all 
>> (and _that_ would be an absolutely wonderful app to control). Logic Pro has 
>> a dictionary but it allows little more than closing a window.
> 
> The problem with OSA is that making an app usefully scriptable requires a lot 
> of extra work that doesn't contribute to the app's core functionality. It's 
> understandable that many developers don't bother or only do a minimal job of 
> it, especially if the Mac platform is not their main focus.
> 
> -- 
> Greg
> 
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[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: Concerns about the Python library appscript

[Jack Jansen via Pythonmac-SIG]

I think your out of luck:

https://appscript.sourceforge.io/status.html

Also, note that AppleScript itself (or actually I should probably say OSA) is 
as good as dead, unfortunately.

Apple doesn’t actively support it anymore, and new programs don’t seem to get 
any OSA support…


> On 20 Aug 2025, at 10:07, Thia Clay  wrote:
> 
> is the Python library appscript still developing? if so, how can I build the 
> wheel with GCC in Windows?
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