Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 10:12:07PM +0400, Brad Campbell wrote: Samuel Hunt wrote: It occurs to me that this program would make an excellent basis for a VNC terminal server. [...] If you use the vnc patch you kinda get a large part of this already. Major issue is still mouse synch, but to be honest if you turn of all acceleration in the guest it stays pretty well synced up now as it is. I use it all the time on my server to host a win2k session when I need to access windows only stuff.. Coupled with kqemu it makes for a pretty quick combination. [...] Currently I run gentoo, freebsd-6 and win2k sessions on my server.. they just sit there idle until I connect to them with vnc.. works a treat. (server is debian) Have you tried the vnc patch with current CVS? I'm seeing some issues with -vnc-and-sdl, and with -vnc only, it looks like something is not getting initialized, and I only see the qemu console in the vnc window. It appears the guest is running, but no video is going to VNC. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
On 4/21/06, Troy Benjegerdes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you tried the vnc patch with current CVS? I'm seeing some issues with -vnc-and-sdl, and with -vnc only, it looks like something is not getting initialized, and I only see the qemu console in the vnc window. It appears the guest is running, but no video is going to VNC. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel I'm using either 13 or my hacked 12 version of the rfb patch with current CVS. I can't tell which at the moment. Both -vnc-and-sdl and -vnc work for me, but I do see some initalization wierdness when using -S. Switching to the monitor and back seems to clear it. I haven't investigated why. WD -- ReactOS is a hub, follow the spokes and you'll immediately find absolutely everything you need to know about Windows. ReactOS is not just software, it's people. kjk_hyperion ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi Anthony, I noticed that the Windows driver does not work... it does send a bunch of commands to the tablet, mostly resets, but then claims that it can't discover it. I downloaded the latest driver from wacom.com. I did not try this with a Linux guest yet maybe that should be my next thing, and see what it will take to make it work without the SDL grab altogether (and sync up). If that can work reliably, then adding the bits to the protocol that Windows expects would be worth the work. I'm thinking that this device would be a good complementary option to an absolute USB HID device. Having both in the long run won't hurt, especially if certain OS's prefer serial over USB absolute pointers, and vice versa. - Leo Reiter Anthony Liguori wrote: The driver isn't built into Windows. It's pretty easy to install though and the way my patch works, the PS/2 mouse is used until it detects the tablet has been enabled. The Windows driver uses quite a bit more of the features of the tablet than the X driver so there's a bit more work to do but nothing extraordinary. Regards, Anthony Liguori -- Leonardo E. Reiter Vice President of Product Development, CTO Win4Lin, Inc. Virtual Computing from Desktop to Data Center Main: +1 512 339 7979 Fax: +1 512 532 6501 http://www.win4lin.com ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Leonardo E. Reiter wrote: Hi Anthony, I noticed that the Windows driver does not work... it does send a bunch of commands to the tablet, mostly resets, but then claims that it can't discover it. I downloaded the latest driver from wacom.com. Yes, this is what I said. The Windows driver uses a bunch more commands than the Linux driver that I have not implemented (which is why I haven't submitted to this list yet). I did not try this with a Linux guest yet maybe that should be my next thing, and see what it will take to make it work without the SDL grab altogether (and sync up). If that can work reliably, then adding the bits to the protocol that Windows expects would be worth the work. I'm thinking that this device would be a good complementary option to an absolute USB HID device. Having both in the long run won't hurt, especially if certain OS's prefer serial over USB absolute pointers, and vice versa. Xorg CVS has initial support for absolute USB devices so I think this is the best route for the future. Regards, Anthony Liguori - Leo Reiter Anthony Liguori wrote: The driver isn't built into Windows. It's pretty easy to install though and the way my patch works, the PS/2 mouse is used until it detects the tablet has been enabled. The Windows driver uses quite a bit more of the features of the tablet than the X driver so there's a bit more work to do but nothing extraordinary. Regards, Anthony Liguori ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Samuel Hunt wrote: It occurs to me that this program would make an excellent basis for a VNC terminal server. Yeah, something like that has been done already: http://libvncserver.sourceforge.net/qemu/qemu-rfb13.patch.gz There is a notable update since rfb12 (which is a bit out of date _cough_): Nis Jorgensen has sent a patch to support scroll mice. IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi Dscho, this virtual Wacom tablet you refer to... is there a [free or built-in] Windows 2000/XP driver associated with it that supports either no acceleration and/or absolute positioning? If so, perhaps I can look at implementing it in QEMU in my spare time ;) Do you have a link to documentation and/or drivers? If the guest OS can't be easily told to not do any acceleration and/or use absolute cursor positioning rather than relative moves, it's not that helpful to have a new type of input device. I suspect a tablet driver can be easily configured this way since design people who probably use these devices want perfect precision between pointer and screen - otherwise they'd probably just use a mouse/trackball. But you can never be sure how Microsoft (or Wacom) decided to implement the Windows version of the driver. The mouse sync solution we have in Win4Lin Pro is okay, but it's a bit slow and I'd like to do something much cleaner. Of course if I do the wacom tablet implementation, it will be open source and part of QEMU itself. Thanks! - Leo Reiter Johannes Schindelin wrote: I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Ciao, Dscho -- Leonardo E. Reiter Vice President of Product Development, CTO Win4Lin, Inc. Virtual Computing from Desktop to Data Center Main: +1 512 339 7979 Fax: +1 512 532 6501 http://www.win4lin.com ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Samuel Hunt wrote: It occurs to me that this program would make an excellent basis for a VNC terminal server. Yeah, something like that has been done already: http://libvncserver.sourceforge.net/qemu/qemu-rfb13.patch.gz There is a notable update since rfb12 (which is a bit out of date _cough_): Nis Jorgensen has sent a patch to support scroll mice. IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. The Xen copy of pckbd.c includes a patch to emulate a Summagraphics tablet, in order to fix this problem. This is probably reusable for QEmu itself. Cheers, Mark -- Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no pedals! Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard? Dave: Skateboards have wheels. Mark: My wheel has a wheel! ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Mark Williamson wrote: The Xen copy of pckbd.c includes a patch to emulate a Summagraphics tablet, in order to fix this problem. This is probably reusable for QEmu itself. I even know who wrote it... Donald Dugger. He forwarded it to me also, and I even think it is part of the RFB patch (too lazy to check right now). There are two problems: - configuration is a bitch. For example, X and gpm do not play nice together. And there is no automatic detection for Summagraphics in kudzu (which is the automatic hardware detection of Knoppix). - the patch modifies the PS/2 mouse of QEmu. However, there is no such thing as a PS/2 Summagraphics. Consequently, all win98 drivers I found did not detect a Summagraphics device. Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 08:24:03PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Ciao, Dscho Anthony Ligouri has written a patch for wacom support. However, when I combine this with the -no-sdl-grab patch I still see syncing issues. -- Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty. Infinite precision begets infinite perfection. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Leonardo E. Reiter wrote: this virtual Wacom tablet you refer to... is there a [free or built-in] Windows 2000/XP driver associated with it that supports either no acceleration and/or absolute positioning? Frankly, I do not know if they are free. But as nobody pays me to play with QEmu, I do not care about Windows so much. And the Wacom drivers for Linux are free. BTW I prefer a virtual wacom tablet to Summagraphics, since kudzu (the hardware detection which is used in Knoppix) can detect it. Unfortunately just the USB version :-( If so, perhaps I can look at implementing it in QEMU in my spare time ;) Do you have a link to documentation and/or drivers? Wow! What an offer! I have some documentation somewhere, I just had a look, and only found the Summagraphics documentation. I will look harder. If the guest OS can't be easily told to not do any acceleration and/or use absolute cursor positioning rather than relative moves, it's not that helpful to have a new type of input device. I suspect a tablet driver can be easily configured this way since design people who probably use these devices want perfect precision between pointer and screen - otherwise they'd probably just use a mouse/trackball. But you can never be sure how Microsoft (or Wacom) decided to implement the Windows version of the driver. My favourite cartoonist, Jamiri, is very proud of his Wacom tablet. IIRC, it has an integrated LCD display. So, I assume absolute positioning is automatically switched on with that tablet. The mouse sync solution we have in Win4Lin Pro is okay, but it's a bit slow and I'd like to do something much cleaner. Of course if I do the wacom tablet implementation, it will be open source and part of QEMU itself. Thanks! Thank you! Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Jim C. Brown wrote: On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 08:24:03PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Ciao, Dscho Anthony Ligouri has written a patch for wacom support. However, when I combine this with the -no-sdl-grab patch I still see syncing issues. Where can I get it? Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Johannes Schindelin wrote: Frankly, I do not know if they are free. But as nobody pays me to play with QEmu, I do not care about Windows so much. And the Wacom drivers for Linux are free. Yes, I understand. I've been looking at the XFree86 version of the driver already. Unfortunately any time I spend on this will have to apply to Windows guests as well, as you can imagine. My company sells Windows-on-Linux software that uses QEMU, so it has to play with Windows guests ;) In fact, there was a recent PS/2 mouse patch on this list and a hack for XFree86 which was very simple. I didn't try it, but if you are using Linux guests you can probably get absolute positioning very easily. I don't recall who posted the patch - it was recent. The fix for the guest X server is very simple as well. BTW I prefer a virtual wacom tablet to Summagraphics, since kudzu (the hardware detection which is used in Knoppix) can detect it. Unfortunately just the USB version :-( Yes, given the state of USB in QEMU it's probably best to stick to serial for now if you want something that works very reliably and soon. Serial would be my intention. The only issue may be how this plays with Windows guests - again, this is very important to me. Wow! What an offer! I have some documentation somewhere, I just had a look, and only found the Summagraphics documentation. I will look harder. Thanks! My favourite cartoonist, Jamiri, is very proud of his Wacom tablet. IIRC, it has an integrated LCD display. So, I assume absolute positioning is automatically switched on with that tablet. I would think so too. But, in looking at the XFree86 version of the driver, it's apparently configurable and my fear is that Windows will flick it to relative mode so it can play acceleration tricks. But anyway, it's worth investigating. Actually Jim C. Brown just posted a note that there is an existing patch, but I can't seem to find it. Jim, I'd be glad to look at it even though you are saying that it is still flaky - perhaps it can be fixed. Thanks, Leo Reiter -- Leonardo E. Reiter Vice President of Product Development, CTO Win4Lin, Inc. Virtual Computing from Desktop to Data Center Main: +1 512 339 7979 Fax: +1 512 532 6501 http://www.win4lin.com ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Jim C. Brown wrote: On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 09:12:18PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: Anthony Ligouri has written a patch for wacom support. However, when I combine this with the -no-sdl-grab patch I still see syncing issues. Where can I get it? http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/qemu-wacom-2.tgz Thanks! I will play around a little. Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Leonardo E. Reiter wrote: The mouse sync solution we have in Win4Lin Pro is okay, but it's a bit slow and I'd like to do something much cleaner. Of course if I do the wacom tablet implementation, it will be open source and part of QEMU itself. This link might or might not be intersting http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:fZ3xQJYOy6UJ:www.codecomments.com/archive421-2005-5-499360.html+hid+mouse+absolute+supporthl=enct=clnkcd=1lr=lang_en Apparently USB HID supports absolute input devices natively. Given we have a HID mouse driver of sorts in qemu I wonder if that is another avenue perhaps ? -- Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Johannes Schindelin wrote: Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Samuel Hunt wrote: It occurs to me that this program would make an excellent basis for a VNC terminal server. Yeah, something like that has been done already: http://libvncserver.sourceforge.net/qemu/qemu-rfb13.patch.gz There is a notable update since rfb12 (which is a bit out of date _cough_): Nis Jorgensen has sent a patch to support scroll mice. IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Someone posted a virtual Synaptic tablet on xen-devel recently (Xen uses qemu for VT support). If someone wants to pick it up and submit it to qemu, that would solve this problem. Regards, Anthony Liguori Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Jim C. Brown wrote: On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 08:24:03PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Ciao, Dscho Anthony Ligouri has written a patch for wacom support. Docs are available for older Wacom tablets. I've not gotten the time to update my patches to actually implement the full protocol according to the docs. The version I wrote is based on a newer X driver so YMMV. Regards, ANthony Liguori However, when I combine this with the -no-sdl-grab patch I still see syncing issues. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Johannes Schindelin wrote: Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Leonardo E. Reiter wrote: this virtual Wacom tablet you refer to... is there a [free or built-in] Windows 2000/XP driver associated with it that supports either no acceleration and/or absolute positioning? Frankly, I do not know if they are free. But as nobody pays me to play with QEmu, I do not care about Windows so much. And the Wacom drivers for Linux are free. BTW I prefer a virtual wacom tablet to Summagraphics, since kudzu (the hardware detection which is used in Knoppix) can detect it. Unfortunately just the USB version :-( The USB version of the wacom tablet is not documented. Only the older serial tablets are. Regards, Anthony Liguori If so, perhaps I can look at implementing it in QEMU in my spare time ;) Do you have a link to documentation and/or drivers? Wow! What an offer! I have some documentation somewhere, I just had a look, and only found the Summagraphics documentation. I will look harder. If the guest OS can't be easily told to not do any acceleration and/or use absolute cursor positioning rather than relative moves, it's not that helpful to have a new type of input device. I suspect a tablet driver can be easily configured this way since design people who probably use these devices want perfect precision between pointer and screen - otherwise they'd probably just use a mouse/trackball. But you can never be sure how Microsoft (or Wacom) decided to implement the Windows version of the driver. My favourite cartoonist, Jamiri, is very proud of his Wacom tablet. IIRC, it has an integrated LCD display. So, I assume absolute positioning is automatically switched on with that tablet. The mouse sync solution we have in Win4Lin Pro is okay, but it's a bit slow and I'd like to do something much cleaner. Of course if I do the wacom tablet implementation, it will be open source and part of QEMU itself. Thanks! Thank you! Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Johannes Schindelin wrote: Hi, On Sat, 8 Apr 2006, Jim C. Brown wrote: On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 08:24:03PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. Ciao, Dscho Anthony Ligouri has written a patch for wacom support. However, when I combine this with the -no-sdl-grab patch I still see syncing issues. Where can I get it? http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/qemu-wacom-2.tgz but as I mentioned earlier, YMMV. Regards, Anthony Liguori Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
andrzej zaborowski wrote: Hi, IMHO the biggest obstacle to inclusion in mainline QEmu is that the mouse support is rather flakey: You have to disable mouse acceleration of the guest OS. I had that cunning plan to write a virtual Wacom tablet, but I just don't find the time. I thought Anthony Liguori had already written a Wacom tablet emulator for QEMU and that worked fine except it supports only one button. I don't remember if this support was complete and I don't have a link to the patch. No, it supports all three. Works quite well for new X drivers. If you search the wacom-devel archives you'll find a link to the docs for the Wacom driver. It does kind of suck though that you have to manually configure your X server. I looked at a number of tablets and they all seem to be serial or undocumented. Regards, Anthony Liguori With this you don't need to disable mouse acceleration in the guest OS because it makes no sense to accelerate a tablet. On the other hand writing a guest-side driver for QEMU would leave room for further improvements like hiding/showing or grabbing/releasing the mouse at specific moments. Or, possibly reusing tools from Win4Lin or VMtools from VMware. Ciao, Dscho ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel -- balrog 2oo6 Dear Outlook users: Please remove me from your address books http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/21/143258 ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] VNC terminal server?
Leonardo E. Reiter wrote: The Win4Lin Pro version is not a driver, but rather a high-priority Windows userspace thread. We try to avoid drivers as much as possible because they are a serious obstacle to supporting new Windows versions and service packs as they come out. I can't comment on VMware's approach to be honest. I will say that using a device that has readily and/or publicly available drivers is probably ideal, such as a Wacom tablet. We are trying to move to more of a device model on Win4Lin Pro for performance reasons, which is why I am interested in this approach. But letting Microsoft maintain the guest driver, if it's built into Windows, is the best solution. It also guarantees the broadest possible guest support in general - whether it be Linux, Mac OS X, etc. The driver isn't built into Windows. It's pretty easy to install though and the way my patch works, the PS/2 mouse is used until it detects the tablet has been enabled. The Windows driver uses quite a bit more of the features of the tablet than the X driver so there's a bit more work to do but nothing extraordinary. Regards, Anthony Liguori If anyone has a link to Anthony Liguori's driver, I'd be glad to look into fixing whatever may be wrong with it and posting the patches. Thanks, Leo Reiter andrzej zaborowski wrote: I thought Anthony Liguori had already written a Wacom tablet emulator for QEMU and that worked fine except it supports only one button. I don't remember if this support was complete and I don't have a link to the patch. With this you don't need to disable mouse acceleration in the guest OS because it makes no sense to accelerate a tablet. On the other hand writing a guest-side driver for QEMU would leave room for further improvements like hiding/showing or grabbing/releasing the mouse at specific moments. Or, possibly reusing tools from Win4Lin or VMtools from VMware. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
