Re: [QGIS-Developer] Temporal controller issues

[Cory Albrecht]

> I understand your frustration,

Thank you.

> the usual recommendation is to use the
LTR version (currently 3.10) if you want stability, any other version
(especially master) is risky.

Using a version labelled as "release" shouldn't be risky, though. Calling
it a "release" implies that a level of testing has been done so that users
can trust that no existing functionality that was not changed has been
broken. A release is what you would give out to paying customers if this
were a for-profit company. You'd never give out a release version with a
new feature that broke so many other features to paying customers, would
you? No. You'd call that a "public beta" or "pre-release" or a "release
candidate" that you give them for free to help find those unexpected use
cases. (And I reiterate—long-standing internal tools like selection,
vertex editor, and identify features should not be "unexpected use cases".)

So if 3.16, referred to as a "release", is really a risky public beta that
you cannot trust to be stable, as you imply here that it is, might I
suggest that non-standard and therefore confusing terminology was adopted?

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 12:48 PM Alessandro Pasotti 
wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:34 PM Cory Albrecht  wrote:
> >
> > > Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving.
> It is hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases.
> >
> > I didn't say all possible use cases though. Basic tools—like identify,
> select, and the vertex editor—should not break when one adds a new feature
> as they are commonly used tools and easy enough to test during development.
> "Hey, I'm making a new feature that altes what is shown on the map canvas.
> I should do a few tests with common tools that a person uses on the visible
> items on the map canvas."
> >
> > My day job is that of a medical software developer and I have to think
> multiple steps ahead like that when working on a new feature branch or if I
> am reviewing somebody elses new branch before it gets merged with master.
> If I don't, I get poor performance reviews. When I file new bugs almost
> every day that I use QGIS about something else being broken by the NTC, can
> you understand how it looks to me like it was not up to snuff in the
> quality department before merging into master?
>
> Hi Cory,
>
> Unfortunately we are not a company and we don't have "departments" but
> there is an ongoing effort to start a community driven QA team:
> https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/180, it
> looks very promising to prevent this kind of issue.
>
> I understand your frustration, the usual recommendation is to use the
> LTR version (currently 3.10) if you want stability, any other version
> (especially master) is risky.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:17 AM Richard Duivenvoorde 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 1/2/21 1:17 AM, Cory Albrecht wrote:
> >> > Can somebody help me under the basics of how things work inside QGIS
> starting from when it loads all the features for a layer through the steps,
> and then finally drawing them on the map canvas, specifically with respect
> to the new temporal controller (NTC)?
> >> >
> >> > The issues caused by the NTC have been very frustrating for me as I
> make mostly (historical) timeline maps and I relied heavily on the old
> TimeManager (OTM) plugin by Antia Graser and group. So many tasks are now
> much more laborious or difficult because so many tools are just not
> time-aware.
> >> >
> >> > Was it not possible to add the NTC in such a way that would have
> still let all the other features work as before with the filtered feature
> set before being made time-aware, rather than confusingly operating on the
> unfiltered set? Or perhaps it shouldn't have been turned on until the
> infrastructure was there for the tools to be time-aware right away?
> >> >
> >> > Because I've just submitted yet another bug about the NTC, this time
> for the selection tool , and
> it has me more than a little annoyed. As a result of this bug I now have an
> unknown number of duplicate objects in multiple layers across multiple
> databases/projects that I unknowingly pasted into them over the past
> several months since the NTC was added to QGIS.
> >> >
> >> > I feel that the NTC was both poorly thought out and badly implemented
> as all these bugs would indicate.
> >>
> >> Hi Cory,
> >>
> >> Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving.
> It is hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases. In my case it was nice
> that the select tool DID return ALL features (as I needed it to create a
> graph in time of measurements in one point). So I proposed earlier (cannot
> find it now), to make this an option in the select tools: "use/not use Time
> Filter". But this all takes time ;-)
> >>
> >> In the meantime:
> >> - you can maybe use "Delete duplicate geometries" [0] to remove the
> duplicates?
> >> - if really in need o

Re: [QGIS-Developer] Temporal controller issues

[Alessandro Pasotti]

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:34 PM Cory Albrecht  wrote:
>
> > Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving. It is 
> > hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases.
>
> I didn't say all possible use cases though. Basic tools—like identify, 
> select, and the vertex editor—should not break when one adds a new feature as 
> they are commonly used tools and easy enough to test during development. 
> "Hey, I'm making a new feature that altes what is shown on the map canvas. I 
> should do a few tests with common tools that a person uses on the visible 
> items on the map canvas."
>
> My day job is that of a medical software developer and I have to think 
> multiple steps ahead like that when working on a new feature branch or if I 
> am reviewing somebody elses new branch before it gets merged with master. If 
> I don't, I get poor performance reviews. When I file new bugs almost every 
> day that I use QGIS about something else being broken by the NTC, can you 
> understand how it looks to me like it was not up to snuff in the quality 
> department before merging into master?

Hi Cory,

Unfortunately we are not a company and we don't have "departments" but
there is an ongoing effort to start a community driven QA team:
https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/180, it
looks very promising to prevent this kind of issue.

I understand your frustration, the usual recommendation is to use the
LTR version (currently 3.10) if you want stability, any other version
(especially master) is risky.

Kind regards.

>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:17 AM Richard Duivenvoorde  
> wrote:
>>
>> On 1/2/21 1:17 AM, Cory Albrecht wrote:
>> > Can somebody help me under the basics of how things work inside QGIS 
>> > starting from when it loads all the features for a layer through the 
>> > steps, and then finally drawing them on the map canvas, specifically with 
>> > respect to the new temporal controller (NTC)?
>> >
>> > The issues caused by the NTC have been very frustrating for me as I make 
>> > mostly (historical) timeline maps and I relied heavily on the old 
>> > TimeManager (OTM) plugin by Antia Graser and group. So many tasks are now 
>> > much more laborious or difficult because so many tools are just not 
>> > time-aware.
>> >
>> > Was it not possible to add the NTC in such a way that would have still let 
>> > all the other features work as before with the filtered feature set before 
>> > being made time-aware, rather than confusingly operating on the unfiltered 
>> > set? Or perhaps it shouldn't have been turned on until the infrastructure 
>> > was there for the tools to be time-aware right away?
>> >
>> > Because I've just submitted yet another bug about the NTC, this time for 
>> > the selection tool , and it has 
>> > me more than a little annoyed. As a result of this bug I now have an 
>> > unknown number of duplicate objects in multiple layers across multiple 
>> > databases/projects that I unknowingly pasted into them over the past 
>> > several months since the NTC was added to QGIS.
>> >
>> > I feel that the NTC was both poorly thought out and badly implemented as 
>> > all these bugs would indicate.
>>
>> Hi Cory,
>>
>> Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving. It is 
>> hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases. In my case it was nice that 
>> the select tool DID return ALL features (as I needed it to create a graph in 
>> time of measurements in one point). So I proposed earlier (cannot find it 
>> now), to make this an option in the select tools: "use/not use Time Filter". 
>> But this all takes time ;-)
>>
>> In the meantime:
>> - you can maybe use "Delete duplicate geometries" [0] to remove the 
>> duplicates?
>> - if really in need of the old TimeManager, you can change the metadata.txt 
>> so OTM will still work in current master. In this line:
>> https://github.com/anitagraser/TimeManager/blob/master/metadata.txt#L7
>> change '3.12' to '3.18'
>> - if you need MemoryLayers to work (like I did), then you have to add 
>> another patch. Let me know if you need that.
>>
>> In the meantime: everybody involved in TimeBased data: let's discuss 
>> use-cases and make NTC better... in time...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Duivenvoorde
>>
>> [0] 
>> https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/133207/removing-overlapping-duplicate-polygons-in-same-layer-using-qgis/133221
>> ___
>> QGIS-Developer mailing list
>> QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
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-- 
Alessandro Pasotti
QCooper

Re: [QGIS-Developer] Temporal controller issues

[Cory Albrecht]

> Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving. It
is hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases.

I didn't say all possible use cases though. Basic tools—like identify,
select, and the vertex editor—should not break when one adds a new feature
as they are commonly used tools and easy enough to test during development.
"Hey, I'm making a new feature that altes what is shown on the map canvas.
I should do a few tests with common tools that a person uses on the visible
items on the map canvas."

My day job is that of a medical software developer and I have to think
multiple steps ahead like that when working on a new feature branch or if I
am reviewing somebody elses new branch before it gets merged with master.
If I don't, I get poor performance reviews. When I file new bugs almost
every day that I use QGIS about something else being broken by the NTC, can
you understand how it looks to me like it was not up to snuff in the
quality department before merging into master?

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:17 AM Richard Duivenvoorde 
wrote:

> On 1/2/21 1:17 AM, Cory Albrecht wrote:
> > Can somebody help me under the basics of how things work inside QGIS
> starting from when it loads all the features for a layer through the steps,
> and then finally drawing them on the map canvas, specifically with respect
> to the new temporal controller (NTC)?
> >
> > The issues caused by the NTC have been very frustrating for me as I make
> mostly (historical) timeline maps and I relied heavily on the old
> TimeManager (OTM) plugin by Antia Graser and group. So many tasks are now
> much more laborious or difficult because so many tools are just not
> time-aware.
> >
> > Was it not possible to add the NTC in such a way that would have still
> let all the other features work as before with the filtered feature set
> before being made time-aware, rather than confusingly operating on the
> unfiltered set? Or perhaps it shouldn't have been turned on until the
> infrastructure was there for the tools to be time-aware right away?
> >
> > Because I've just submitted yet another bug about the NTC, this time for
> the selection tool , and it
> has me more than a little annoyed. As a result of this bug I now have an
> unknown number of duplicate objects in multiple layers across multiple
> databases/projects that I unknowingly pasted into them over the past
> several months since the NTC was added to QGIS.
> >
> > I feel that the NTC was both poorly thought out and badly implemented as
> all these bugs would indicate.
>
> Hi Cory,
>
> Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving. It
> is hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases. In my case it was nice
> that the select tool DID return ALL features (as I needed it to create a
> graph in time of measurements in one point). So I proposed earlier (cannot
> find it now), to make this an option in the select tools: "use/not use Time
> Filter". But this all takes time ;-)
>
> In the meantime:
> - you can maybe use "Delete duplicate geometries" [0] to remove the
> duplicates?
> - if really in need of the old TimeManager, you can change the
> metadata.txt so OTM will still work in current master. In this line:
> https://github.com/anitagraser/TimeManager/blob/master/metadata.txt#L7
> change '3.12' to '3.18'
> - if you need MemoryLayers to work (like I did), then you have to add
> another patch. Let me know if you need that.
>
> In the meantime: everybody involved in TimeBased data: let's discuss
> use-cases and make NTC better... in time...
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Duivenvoorde
>
> [0]
> https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/133207/removing-overlapping-duplicate-polygons-in-same-layer-using-qgis/133221
> ___
> QGIS-Developer mailing list
> QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] Temporal controller issues

[Richard Duivenvoorde]

On 1/2/21 1:17 AM, Cory Albrecht wrote:
> Can somebody help me under the basics of how things work inside QGIS starting 
> from when it loads all the features for a layer through the steps, and then 
> finally drawing them on the map canvas, specifically with respect to the new 
> temporal controller (NTC)?
> 
> The issues caused by the NTC have been very frustrating for me as I make 
> mostly (historical) timeline maps and I relied heavily on the old TimeManager 
> (OTM) plugin by Antia Graser and group. So many tasks are now much more 
> laborious or difficult because so many tools are just not time-aware.
> 
> Was it not possible to add the NTC in such a way that would have still let 
> all the other features work as before with the filtered feature set before 
> being made time-aware, rather than confusingly operating on the unfiltered 
> set? Or perhaps it shouldn't have been turned on until the infrastructure was 
> there for the tools to be time-aware right away?
> 
> Because I've just submitted yet another bug about the NTC, this time for the 
> selection tool , and it has me 
> more than a little annoyed. As a result of this bug I now have an unknown 
> number of duplicate objects in multiple layers across multiple 
> databases/projects that I unknowingly pasted into them over the past several 
> months since the NTC was added to QGIS.
> 
> I feel that the NTC was both poorly thought out and badly implemented as all 
> these bugs would indicate.

Hi Cory,

Let's try to stay positive. NTC is still young, and rapidly evolving. It is 
hard to keep up with all (possible) use cases. In my case it was nice that the 
select tool DID return ALL features (as I needed it to create a graph in time 
of measurements in one point). So I proposed earlier (cannot find it now), to 
make this an option in the select tools: "use/not use Time Filter". But this 
all takes time ;-)

In the meantime:
- you can maybe use "Delete duplicate geometries" [0] to remove the duplicates?
- if really in need of the old TimeManager, you can change the metadata.txt so 
OTM will still work in current master. In this line:
https://github.com/anitagraser/TimeManager/blob/master/metadata.txt#L7
change '3.12' to '3.18'
- if you need MemoryLayers to work (like I did), then you have to add another 
patch. Let me know if you need that.

In the meantime: everybody involved in TimeBased data: let's discuss use-cases 
and make NTC better... in time...

Regards,

Richard Duivenvoorde

[0] 
https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/133207/removing-overlapping-duplicate-polygons-in-same-layer-using-qgis/133221
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