Re: [QGIS-Developer] Revolt Chat Community Server

[Greg Troxel via QGIS-Developer]

Also, revolt's terms contain:

  You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your account
  and password, including but not limited to the restriction of access to
  your computer and/or account. You agree to accept responsibility for any
  and all activities or actions that occur under your account and/or
  password, whether your password is with our Service or a third-party
  service.

which seems like it is trying to be an indemnification, and it is
clearly unreasonable.  I don't think it's ok for osgeo projects to ask
people to sign contracta with third parties as part of participating.
But, I realize I am likely viewed as an extremist.

That said, revolt's terms (for their site) are less troublesome than
many other centralized services.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

Re: [QGIS-Developer] Revolt Chat Community Server

[Greg Troxel via QGIS-Developer]

Régis Haubourg via QGIS-Developer 
writes:

> thanks for the work with Revolt. I tried it during the developer
> meeting in Firenze, but I did not persist in using it. Let me explain
> why and please excuse me in advance, this is a pretty long mail!

I found your message to be very thoughtful and helpful.

For background, my involvement in qgis development is so far maintaining
the pkgsrc entry (also gdal, postgis, proj), portability testing on
those projects, and ranting about WGS84 ensembles.

> - mailing lists are dying. Younger won't jump in. Being at ease
> suppose a good email client and filter rules. And this is a pain. What
> is really unique is that they are indexed by search engine and
> accessible via public archives. We built a knowledge base each time we
> post a mail. Osgeo also offers a central hub where one can't explore
> existing mailing lists, and this was a really nice to me.  Now that
> Nabble is dead, there is no more forum-like web access. And let's not
> forget that some people just don't want to use apps, and would like to
> stick to mail forever.  So we can't stay without decision here.

I think it's really unfortunate that people object to using email, for
reasons that to me border on fashion.

Besides archives, mailinglists have another important point, which is
that the set of subscribers to a list are a community, a group that
makes some effort to belong, and people tend to remain.   I don't see
this with other mechanisms.

In particular, community doesn't happen with github; only the very few
dedicated contributors subscribe all, and, at least in smaller projects,
a handful of people deal with and respond to issues that mostly should
not be in issues.  I suspect this is partially github's fault for
pushing all interaction to their systems while not offering
mailinglists, and partly that people expect personalized support from
others rather than joining and being mutual.

Another point I think is very important is that email allows meaningful
participation by people who are only able to pay attention once a day or
even less.  Anything chat-like (which includes many forums in my
experience) generates a culture of instant discussion and moving on.
The things that matter actually happen on slower time scales, and using
fast-only mechanisms effectively excludes slower time scale people.

This is a tools issue, but I find that with email, the conversations
arrive (and in my case are sorted into per-project folders), and I
become aware of them.  I do not have to go to N different websites to
keep up with various projects.

> - Chats aren't efficient and generate too much traffic. I personnaly
> just don't have enough bandwidth to follow 10% of the channels I
> should follow. And I am pretty involved. Furthermore, each country
> seems to have its preferences on which too to use. I ended up in
> having 6 apps on my phone only for those channels. This is far from
> ideal. Let's not forget that some people will never leave IRC too :)
> (and some have older phones not supporting so many apps).

I agree about too much traffic.  Between it being easy to type, vs an
expectation of thoughtfulness in email, and people popping into chats,
expecting help, and then leaving, I find it too much and only follow a
few.

> - we also have issues, Pull requests and potential GitHub discussions
> to not forget here :)

We do, but that's proprietary software and relying on it more raises the
cost of leaving.

> - adding a new communication channel without stating officially which
> is the main channel just breaks the single source of truth principle
> we had with mailing lists. I have seen recently two feedback from
> community users thinking that there was no debate on major topics,
> just because the discussion on the mailing list topics stalled. But
> those discussions in fact did occur, but spread across those new
> channels, and we didn't have enough bandwidth to summarize the
> decision on the mailing list (and we also forgot). This is the most
> annoying issue.

I think this should be  fixed by declaring the mailinglist to be the
communication method of record.

> Discourse is a modern forum, that can act as a chat if you are inline,
> or a mailing list, and let users tune their notifications levels
> pretty nicely.  Just have a look to the main page, stating the
> principles of this tool [0]

This is interesting and I don't have experience with it.  I suspect that
means the kinds of projects I tend to participate in are either
mailinglist culture projects or github only.

>  - Discourse as one organized and persistent place, including the
> osgeo history discussions. This would be the main communication
> channel. I will contact OSGEO to see if the system administration
> committee want to go this way for all the osgeo mailing lists.

I am open to considering this if it functions as a non-broken
mailinglist.  That's a tall order, with From: fields correct without
messing up DKIM/DMARC, but maybe

Re: [QGIS-Developer] Revolt Chat Community Server

[Régis Haubourg via QGIS-Developer]

Hi Ethan,

thanks for the work with Revolt. I tried it during the developer meeting 
in Firenze, but I did not persist in using it. Let me explain why and 
please excuse me in advance, this is a pretty long mail!


First, before jumping to a tool, I would like that we discuss globally 
the communication challenges that all those new tools bring for all 
online communities - QGIS included.


I experienced the very same situation with mailing list and a spontaneus 
Discord server ( at my paragliding club) and I learned a few things, 
both positive and negative.


# Where are we now ?

- mailing lists are dying. Younger won't jump in. Being at ease suppose 
a good email client and filter rules. And this is a pain. What is really 
unique is that they are indexed by search engine and accessible via 
public archives. We built a knowledge base each time we post a mail. 
Osgeo also offers a central hub where one can't explore existing mailing 
lists, and this was a really nice to me.  Now that Nabble is dead, there 
is no more forum-like web access. And let's not forget that some people 
just don't want to use apps, and would like to stick to mail forever.  
So we can't stay without decision here.


- Chats are fun, but messy, and they break our community in sub parts. 
Telegram / IRC / Element -Matrix / Gitter / Signal / WhatsApp etc...  
Furthermore, there are multiple channels that you can't be aware if 
you're not invited into. This is a serious regression, because 
transparency and public discussion is a key principle of Free software.


- Chats aren't efficient and generate too much traffic. I personnaly 
just don't have enough bandwidth to follow 10% of the channels I should 
follow. And I am pretty involved. Furthermore, each country seems to 
have its preferences on which too to use. I ended up in having 6 apps on 
my phone only for those channels. This is far from ideal. Let's not 
forget that some people will never leave IRC too :) (and some have older 
phones not supporting so many apps).


- Discord / Revolt are organized chats, with topics. They have nice 
apps.  They are still it is some kind of private place if this can't be 
found via a search engine. Maybe Revolt can be indexed?  At one point, I 
think they also start to be messy and require so clear rules for 
category / topics management, and archiving discussions. The Revolt 
instance has too much categories IMO.


- we also have issues, Pull requests and potential GitHub discussions to 
not forget here :)


- adding a new communication channel without stating officially which is 
the main channel just breaks the single source of truth principle we had 
with mailing lists. I have seen recently two feedback from community 
users thinking that there was no debate on major topics, just because 
the discussion on the mailing list topics stalled. But those discussions 
in fact did occur, but spread across those new channels, and we didn't 
have enough bandwidth to summarize the decision on the mailing list (and 
we also forgot). This is the most annoying issue.


- Side note, I didn't have a good user experience with Revolt, the app 
seems still a bit young. But I am pretty sure it will get more mature.


- Last but not least, after discussing this issue in the French OSGeo 
local chapter and with open data groups, I discovered (yet) another 
option, which is Discourse.


Discourse is a modern forum, that can act as a chat if you are inline, 
or a mailing list, and let users tune their notifications levels pretty 
nicely.  Just have a look to the main page, stating the principles of 
this tool [0]


There are tools to migrate mailman history archives to Discourse. Gnome 
project just chose this path recently. [1] (thanks Marco for your 
pointers here)


S, we are all now facing the "too much choice" situation and user's 
confusion.


# How to adress this situation ?

So I would like to propose the following approach, which is basically 
the Gnome's project strategy.


 - Discourse as one organized and persistent place, including the osgeo 
history discussions. This would be the main communication channel. I 
will contact OSGEO to see if the system administration committee want to 
go this way for all the osgeo mailing lists.


- We choose on main chat tool for instant messaging. Discord or Revolt 
could be the choice. I would vote for open source first. So this would 
be Element-Matrix or Revolt. Revolt is a bit too much overlapping 
Discourse feature to me. Element Matrix is already bridged to IRC and 
exists.


- We let community driven channels be impulsed by groups (user groups, 
thematic groups), but let's be clear that it tends to break the 
community and should not be advertised as the official channels


I am sorry if this not goes the way you want, and we are here to debate 
and find a consensus. Adding more channels without removing others is 
confusing for all of us.


All the best

Régis

[0] https://www.discourse.org/

[1] 
https:

Re: [QGIS-Developer] segmentation fault in standalone script using PyQGIS

[Jacky Volpes via QGIS-Developer]

Hi,

See answers below.

Best regards.
Jacky


Le 31/10/2022 à 17:26, Mélanie Dol via QGIS-Developer a écrit :

Hi Jacky,

Thank you so much, the segmentation fault has disappeared.

However, my styles don't work. I guess my script can't access to my 
symbols pre-configured. Is there a path to add or anything else ?


You have to specify the QGIS profile directory path in which the symbols 
are saved.

For example :
qgs = QgsApplication([], False, 
'/home/jacky/.local/share/QGIS/QGIS3/profiles/default')




Another question, how to force a label placement mode to "horizontal" ?


the line "layer_settings.LabelPlacement = 4" should be changed to 
"layer_settings.placement = 4"
you can also use the enum : "layer_settings.LabelPlacement = 
QgsPalLayerSettings.Placement.Horizontal"





Many thanks and regards,

Mélanie

On 10/31/22 12:14 PM, Jacky Volpes via QGIS-Developer wrote:

Hi Mélanie,

Thanks for the script, I was able to reproduce the segmentation fault 
with a dummy gpkg I made.


After some investigations, it seems that the symbol named 
"style_layer" used in

    1. the addSymbol() method for the first layer
    2. & 3. the QgsRendererCategory() constructor for the second and 
third layer

is None (nullptr -> hence  the segfault).

If I add the following

    if style_layer is None:
        style_layer = 
QgsSymbol.defaultSymbol(Layer_Pressure_Center.geometryType())


just before using style_layer as a safe check (for each layer of 
course) everything works fine.
Maybe it's simply because I don't have these symbols pre-configured, 
but it's worth the check on your side.


Also, I encapsulated the code like this, which prevents another  
segfault to occur due to local/global scope stuff I think:


---

all imports

def main():
    the main code

if__name__ == '__main__':
    set prefix path
    create qgs application
    append plugins path to sys.path and import processing stuff
    main()
    qgs.exitQgis()

---


Regards,
Jacky



Le 28/10/2022 à 17:10, Mélanie Dol via QGIS-Developer a écrit :

Hi Jacky,

Yes of course. Please find attached my script.

Regards,

Mélanie

On 10/28/22 4:55 PM, Jacky Volpes via QGIS-Developer wrote:

Hi Mélanie,

Have you initialized your standalone script as shown in 
https://docs.qgis.org/3.22/en/docs/pyqgis_developer_cookbook/intro.html#using-pyqgis-in-standalone-scripts 
?


Best regards,
Jacky


Le 28/10/2022 à 16:40, Mélanie Dol via QGIS-Developer a écrit :

Hi Andrea,

Thank you. I've updated with QGIS 3.26 Buenos Aires. The warning 
message have disappeared. Unfortunately, the script still 
generates a segmentation fault.


Best regards,

Mélanie Dol

On 10/28/22 11:47 AM, Andrea Giudiceandrea via QGIS-Developer wrote:

Il 27/10/2022 16:34, Mélanie Dol via QGIS-Developer ha scritto:
/usr/share/qgis/python/plugins/processing/algs/grass7/Grass7Utils.py:191: 
SyntaxWarning: "is" with a literal. Did you mean "=="?

  if path is '':


Hi Mélanie,
while I don't know why that script generates a segmentation 
fault, It seems you are using QGIS 3.10 which is a three years 
old version. The QGIS repository for Ubuntu 20.04 currently 
offers the latest available QGIS LTR 3.22.12.


Best regards.

Andrea Giudiceandrea

___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer



___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer


--
Jacky Volpes

Ingénieur SIG - Oslandia

___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer



___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer


--
Jacky Volpes

Ingénieur SIG - Oslandia

___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer



___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe:https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer


--
Jacky Volpes

Ingénieur SIG - Oslandia
___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe: https:/

Re: [QGIS-Developer] Broken coordinate/distance/area calculation tests

[DelazJ via QGIS-Developer]

Hi,
For reference, I finally went with what the test was expecting
https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Documentation/commit/16536686a93ce126d97926539b31aa4a16402f02

Harrissou

Le lun. 31 oct. 2022 à 00:11, Delaz J  a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> Thanks Nyall. No, no changes I'm aware of:
> https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Documentation/commits/master
>
> master itself is(was?) green. It is the latest PR
>  that fails, and
> given that it touches nothing related to tests, I suspect the culprit is
> somewhere in the qgis docker image we pull.
>
> Regards,
>
> Harrissou
> Le 30/10/2022 à 23:20, Nyall Dawson a écrit :
>
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 at 16:10, Harrissou s. via 
> QGIS-Developer 
>  wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am wondering if the method for area/distance calculation has changed again 
> in master or if the issue is in some transformation accuracy changes.
>
> In QGIS docs, we are getting failing tests for calculation we did not touch 
> the underlying data for years.
> See starting from 
> https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Documentation/actions/runs/3339628288/jobs/5530428647#step:6:703
>
> Was there any corresponding updates to the test infrastructure? This
> looks to me like a proj library update has been installed.
>
> Nyall
>
>
> Regards,
> Harrissou
> ___
> QGIS-Developer mailing listqgis-develo...@lists.osgeo.org
> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
>
___
QGIS-Developer mailing list
QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org
List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer