Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-tr] Concerns about translations and QGIS overall credibility
ciao to everyone, let me show you the Italian situation. 1) the use of QGIS in Italy, especially in the Public Administration, continues to spread more and more. When I say "Public Administration" I do not mean only the Ministries or other big public organizations, but above all small Municipalities also with a few hundred inhabitants, whose technicians begin to see the possibility of using for many subjects no longer the CAD but (Q)GIS. During the Central Italy 2016 Earthquake, we installed QGIS in more than 200 Municipalities, in order to manage the complex phase of post-earthquake surveys of private buildings. Well, I assure you that if QGIS had been only in English, the chances that the technicians and volunteers would use QGIS, would have been very low. The fact that the default language in QGIS is the local one is a consolation and safety for the user. 2) matteo ghetta, paolo cavallini and I are the coordinators of the Italian translation team. There are more than 60 people registered in Transifex, but there are very few active ones. The work flow is this: anyone can translate, but only one is the reviewer (me). This helps to have a unique (or almost) translation style and allows revisions and corrections on strings to spread immediately over all the other similar ones in the various versions of QGIS available. This is the reason why I don't like having strings of versions 3.4 and 3.8 in Transifex: I work on "All resources" and therefore when I make massive corrections I have errors due to the presence of these strings that are no longer editable. 3) In Italy the interest in the translation of QGIS (GUI, site and documentation) is high; As part of summer webinars organized by the GFOSS.it association, on July 9 I will hold a short webinar on tricks and good practices for translating in Transifex and about twenty people have already registered. In conclusion, I believe that although there are sometimes obvious errors in the translations that make the string incomprehensible, it is necessary to persevere and continue to improve and push users to report errors or omissions. The choice of a single reviewer greatly limits the possibility of errors, even if the various evolutions of the resources of QGIS in Transifex has led to having thousands of strings that had already been revised to be again unreviewed, frustrating the work of months. But that's okay; Transifex is exceptional even if it is hateful not to have the context in which the string is used. And please don't make English the default language. thank you and forgive my Italianglish: when I translate QGIS from English to Italian I am more accurate :-D s. Il giorno mar 30 giu 2020 alle ore 00:20 Alexandre Neto < senhor.n...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > Transifex Webtranslation page for QGIS is on > https://www.transifex.com/qgis/ > > Hi, > > I have been looking into the Portuguese translations of the GUI and the > Docs, and I got really scared. Many translations were done completely out > of context, making it very hard to read or understand what was > originally written in English, even if you are familiar with the > terminology. > > I don't know how other languages are going, and if you face the same > problems. In Portugal, we have a very small community. Because of that, > translation efforts are not really coordinated or even reviewed in most > cases. > > Now, the biggest problem is that I think this deeply affects QGIS > credibility. When you install QGIS, it defaults to the machine's locale, > and many users don't even know how to change it (seen it in several > courses). This means that many people will only know the badly translated > version of QGIS in their native language... and It looks bad. > > In training, people sometimes make fun of the translations. I always > enforce the idea that the translation work is fully done by volunteers in > their spare time, but I am afraid if for some people it just looks like the > full application was done by volunteers and hobbyists. > > So, I wanted to know if more of you face the same issues. If so, would it > be wiser to default the language always to English and let the user find > out how to change to his language if he wants to? > > Thanks, > > Alexandre Neto > > PS: Sorry for the cross-posting > > > ___ > QGIS-Translators mailing list > qgis...@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr ___ QGIS-Developer mailing list QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-tr] Concerns about translations and QGIS overall credibility
Dear All, thanks, if I may express that here: for QGIS I am probably less concerned about an off comma and strange-funny term in the major EU languages (most of them are techno-anglicised anyways) . I rather care for text software versions of QGIS in Suaheli, Arab languages, Pidgin, Hindi, Mandarin and Esperanto. I believe that's where much of the QGIS power really sits, and for applications and 'markets'. Please do not forget those, instead a focus just on a few upset vanity users in Germany etc. Just my view and from experience. With kind worldly open source regards Falk Huettmann On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:38 PM Nyall Dawson wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 08:20, Alexandre Neto > wrote: > > > So, I wanted to know if more of you face the same issues. If so, would > it be wiser to default the language always to English and let the user find > out how to change to his language if he wants to? > > What about a predefined allow list of "high quality translations"? And > we'd only default to using the local language IF it's part of this > predefined list... > > Nyall > ___ > QGIS-Developer mailing list > QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org > List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer ___ QGIS-Developer mailing list QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-tr] Concerns about translations and QGIS overall credibility
Hi! While we've got a lot more languages and translations now I share your concerns too. After all (and you alreade mentioned it) it is all volunteer work. There is still the option of reviews on transifex, but I am a bit concerned that translations AND reviews would be too much for some languages. The idea of having english as default language and let the user decide if he wants to switch to the native language (probably with a warning that the translation is done by volunteers) is a good one, but what to do with the people who do not (or only a little) speak english? Having good translations is hard work. regards Werner On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 00:06 +0100, Alexandre Neto wrote: > Transifex Webtranslation page for QGIS is on > https://www.transifex.com/qgis/ > > Hi, > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:38 PM Nyall Dawson > wrote: > > > What about a predefined allow list of "high quality translations"? > > And > > we'd only default to using the local language IF it's part of this > > predefined list... > > That would be a nice idea if we can ensure that there are enough > native speakers available for doing the reviews and confirm that a > certain language is ok to go. It's a really hard job, and it's always > on the move. But, yes, maybe an overall appreciation could be enough > to get the stamp of quality. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:42 PM Luigi Pirelli > wrote: > > As far as I know, the italian translation suffer the same problem, > > not about quality, but about resources to give continuity to > > translation work. Spanish community, instead, is more focused in > > translations (different official languages) than in features or > > bugfixing. > > Please notice that my worries are not the lack of translation of many > strings, that is kind of ok to me. The problem are the badly > translated ones. > > The move to transifex made the translations available to many more > translators, and we got more strings translated, but... while the > QtLinguist translations had in some cases the GUI as context, > transifex doesn't. > > Besides, at least in Portuguese, some people are more worried in > quantity than in quality. Unfortunately, Transifex don't make it easy > to find all the translation done by a bad translator... at least that > I know of. > > Alex > > > Nyall > > ___ > > QGIS-Translators mailing list > > qgis...@lists.osgeo.org > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr > > ___ > QGIS-Translators mailing list > qgis...@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr ___ QGIS-Developer mailing list QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-tr] Concerns about translations and QGIS overall credibility
Hi! While we've got a lot more languages and translations now I share your concerns too. After all (and you alreade mentioned it) it is all volunteer work. There is still the option of reviews on transifex, but I am a bit concerned that translations AND reviews would be too much for some languages. The idea of having english as default language and let the user decide if he wants to switch to the native language (probably with a warning that the translation is done by volunteers) is a good one, but what to do with the people who do not (or only a little) speak english? Having good translations is hard work. regards Werner On Tue, 2020-06-30 at 00:06 +0100, Alexandre Neto wrote: > Transifex Webtranslation page for QGIS is on > https://www.transifex.com/qgis/ > > Hi, > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:38 PM Nyall Dawson > wrote: > > > What about a predefined allow list of "high quality translations"? > > And > > we'd only default to using the local language IF it's part of this > > predefined list... > > That would be a nice idea if we can ensure that there are enough > native speakers available for doing the reviews and confirm that a > certain language is ok to go. It's a really hard job, and it's always > on the move. But, yes, maybe an overall appreciation could be enough > to get the stamp of quality. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:42 PM Luigi Pirelli > wrote: > > As far as I know, the italian translation suffer the same problem, > > not about quality, but about resources to give continuity to > > translation work. Spanish community, instead, is more focused in > > translations (different official languages) than in features or > > bugfixing. > > Please notice that my worries are not the lack of translation of many > strings, that is kind of ok to me. The problem are the badly > translated ones. > > The move to transifex made the translations available to many more > translators, and we got more strings translated, but... while the > QtLinguist translations had in some cases the GUI as context, > transifex doesn't. > > Besides, at least in Portuguese, some people are more worried in > quantity than in quality. Unfortunately, Transifex don't make it easy > to find all the translation done by a bad translator... at least that > I know of. > > Alex > > > Nyall > > ___ > > QGIS-Translators mailing list > > qgis...@lists.osgeo.org > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr > > ___ > QGIS-Translators mailing list > qgis...@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr ___ QGIS-Developer mailing list QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-tr] Concerns about translations and QGIS overall credibility
Hi, On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:38 PM Nyall Dawson wrote: > What about a predefined allow list of "high quality translations"? And > we'd only default to using the local language IF it's part of this > predefined list... > That would be a nice idea if we can ensure that there are enough native speakers available for doing the reviews and confirm that a certain language is ok to go. It's a really hard job, and it's always on the move. But, yes, maybe an overall appreciation could be enough to get the stamp of quality. On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:42 PM Luigi Pirelli wrote: > As far as I know, the italian translation suffer the same problem, not > about quality, but about resources to give continuity to translation work. > Spanish community, instead, is more focused in translations (different > official languages) than in features or bugfixing. > Please notice that my worries are not the lack of translation of many strings, that is kind of ok to me. The problem are the badly translated ones. The move to transifex made the translations available to many more translators, and we got more strings translated, but... while the QtLinguist translations had in some cases the GUI as context, transifex doesn't. Besides, at least in Portuguese, some people are more worried in quantity than in quality. Unfortunately, Transifex don't make it easy to find all the translation done by a bad translator... at least that I know of. Alex > Nyall > ___ > QGIS-Translators mailing list > qgis...@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-tr ___ QGIS-Developer mailing list QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-tr] Concerns about translations and QGIS overall credibility
On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 08:20, Alexandre Neto wrote: > So, I wanted to know if more of you face the same issues. If so, would it be > wiser to default the language always to English and let the user find out how > to change to his language if he wants to? What about a predefined allow list of "high quality translations"? And we'd only default to using the local language IF it's part of this predefined list... Nyall ___ QGIS-Developer mailing list QGIS-Developer@lists.osgeo.org List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
