Re: [Qgis-developer] Could ubuntugis PPA be a recommended repository for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu ?

2013-05-06 Thread Ivan Mincik 
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Alex Mandel wrote:

> On 05/06/2013 07:40 AM, Ivan Mincik wrote:
>
>> On 05/06/2013 03:50 PM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ivan,
>>>
>>> On Mon, 06. May 2013 at 14:58:55 +0200, Ivan Mincik wrote:
>>>
 I wonder if ubuntugis PPA could be a recommended and only one repository
 for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu instead of distribution packaged version and
 package from 'http://qgis.org/debian'.

>>>
>>> Recommended: ok.
>>> Only: why?
>>>
>>> I don't see the problem with a less intrusive version (ie. qgis on plain
>>> ubuntu) and a more intrusive version (ie. qgis on ubuntugis).
>>>
>>
>> Ubuntu distribution packages stick with 1.7 version which is obsolete.
>>
>>
> That's a function of inheriting official packages from upstream Debian.
> Get newer versions into Debian and it trickles down.


Yes, I understand.


>
>
>
>>> Switching between the same versions from different repositories might be
>>> a
>>> problem, but I suppose that doesn't happen often.
>>>
>>
> I think new users get confused about which one they really want and the
> reality is most actually want the Master builds because of features (but
> that's impractical because of stability). So we should make one of the
> options the Recommended. For me this has always been ubuntugis-unstable,
> primarily because the newer gdal builds support the formats people are
> trying to work with and some of the nastier bugs occur there (if you can't
> read/write your data everything else is pointless).
>
>
>
>>> Maintaining both versions wasn't a big problem in the past, so I don't
>>> expect it
>>> be come one in future.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe a bug fixing could be easier when you deal for example with lesser
>> GDAL versions. Also when a time goes on distribution libraries goes
>> older and more version dependent workarounds must be provided (for
>> example GDAL 1.10 has better support for PostGIS raster and SpatiaLite)
>>
>>
>>> The packages are only built on release, with the current dependencies at
>>> that
>>> point - and only updated, when manually when necessary.  But that also
>>> applies
>>> to both repositories.
>>>
>>>
>> PPA build could be less error prone than self made PBuilder. I am often
>> not sure if my pbuilder updated build deps when building packages
>> depending each other.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  What needs to be done ?:

>>>
>>>  1. Fine tuned Debian 'control' file to prevent conflicting installation
 of
 packages after upgrading from distribution packages to UbuntuGIS
 (this is the case for example in GDAL)

>>>
>>> 0. Report those problems.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I am going to fix them in my PPA and send a patch. But I am not
>> sure where reports for PPAs should be submitted.
>>
>>  http://trac.osgeo.org/**ubuntugis/ 
>
> Unless it's an error in the DebianGIS version which we pull from their git
> repo. I need to go looking for where to report those besides mailing list
> and IRC.


Thanks for info.


>
>
>
>>>
>>>  2. More clearly described relation between ubuntugis-stable and
 ubuntugis-unstable repositories (when the packages move from
 unstable to
 stable ...)

>>>
>>> Yes, that would be nice to know - I only upload to ubuntugis-unstable ;)
>>>
>>
>>
> That is the correct place. Sadly the naming convention borrowed from
> Debian causes nothing but confusion.
> Testing - where to put stuff when you're not sure if it will work.
> Unstable - where you put stuff you want people to use.
> Stable - where we move things to from Unstable when a newer version is
> staged to go into unstable, so that if you want to stick to the older one
> you can by switching to stable. Or if you need to get the older version or
> older deps for some reason (regressions).


Hm, if it is like this, it is really sooo confusing. Is there any
possibility to improve this workflow ?


>
>
>  What I am missing for PPAs is some kind of wiki where these informations
>> could be placed.
>>
>>
> http://trac.osgeo.org/**ubuntugis/ 
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
___
Qgis-developer mailing list
Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

Re: [Qgis-developer] Could ubuntugis PPA be a recommended repository for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu ?

2013-05-06 Thread Alex Mandel 

On 05/06/2013 07:40 AM, Ivan Mincik wrote:

On 05/06/2013 03:50 PM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:

Hi Ivan,

On Mon, 06. May 2013 at 14:58:55 +0200, Ivan Mincik wrote:

I wonder if ubuntugis PPA could be a recommended and only one repository
for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu instead of distribution packaged version and
package from 'http://qgis.org/debian'.


Recommended: ok.
Only: why?

I don't see the problem with a less intrusive version (ie. qgis on plain
ubuntu) and a more intrusive version (ie. qgis on ubuntugis).


Ubuntu distribution packages stick with 1.7 version which is obsolete.



That's a function of inheriting official packages from upstream Debian. 
Get newer versions into Debian and it trickles down.




Switching between the same versions from different repositories might be a
problem, but I suppose that doesn't happen often.


I think new users get confused about which one they really want and the 
reality is most actually want the Master builds because of features (but 
that's impractical because of stability). So we should make one of the 
options the Recommended. For me this has always been ubuntugis-unstable, 
primarily because the newer gdal builds support the formats people are 
trying to work with and some of the nastier bugs occur there (if you 
can't read/write your data everything else is pointless).




Maintaining both versions wasn't a big problem in the past, so I don't expect it
be come one in future.


Maybe a bug fixing could be easier when you deal for example with lesser
GDAL versions. Also when a time goes on distribution libraries goes
older and more version dependent workarounds must be provided (for
example GDAL 1.10 has better support for PostGIS raster and SpatiaLite)



The packages are only built on release, with the current dependencies at that
point - and only updated, when manually when necessary.  But that also applies
to both repositories.



PPA build could be less error prone than self made PBuilder. I am often
not sure if my pbuilder updated build deps when building packages
depending each other.





What needs to be done ?:



1. Fine tuned Debian 'control' file to prevent conflicting installation of
packages after upgrading from distribution packages to UbuntuGIS
(this is the case for example in GDAL)


0. Report those problems.


Yes, I am going to fix them in my PPA and send a patch. But I am not
sure where reports for PPAs should be submitted.


http://trac.osgeo.org/ubuntugis/

Unless it's an error in the DebianGIS version which we pull from their 
git repo. I need to go looking for where to report those besides mailing 
list and IRC.







2. More clearly described relation between ubuntugis-stable and
ubuntugis-unstable repositories (when the packages move from unstable to
stable ...)


Yes, that would be nice to know - I only upload to ubuntugis-unstable ;)




That is the correct place. Sadly the naming convention borrowed from 
Debian causes nothing but confusion.

Testing - where to put stuff when you're not sure if it will work.
Unstable - where you put stuff you want people to use.
Stable - where we move things to from Unstable when a newer version is 
staged to go into unstable, so that if you want to stick to the older 
one you can by switching to stable. Or if you need to get the older 
version or older deps for some reason (regressions).



What I am missing for PPAs is some kind of wiki where these informations
could be placed.



http://trac.osgeo.org/ubuntugis/

Thanks,
Alex
___
Qgis-developer mailing list
Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

Re: [Qgis-developer] Could ubuntugis PPA be a recommended repository for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu ?

2013-05-06 Thread Ivan Mincik 
On 05/06/2013 03:50 PM, Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
> Hi Ivan,
> 
> On Mon, 06. May 2013 at 14:58:55 +0200, Ivan Mincik wrote:
>> I wonder if ubuntugis PPA could be a recommended and only one repository
>> for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu instead of distribution packaged version and
>> package from 'http://qgis.org/debian'.
> 
> Recommended: ok.
> Only: why?
> 
> I don't see the problem with a less intrusive version (ie. qgis on plain
> ubuntu) and a more intrusive version (ie. qgis on ubuntugis).

Ubuntu distribution packages stick with 1.7 version which is obsolete.

> 
> Switching between the same versions from different repositories might be a
> problem, but I suppose that doesn't happen often.
> 
> Maintaining both versions wasn't a big problem in the past, so I don't expect 
> it
> be come one in future.

Maybe a bug fixing could be easier when you deal for example with lesser
GDAL versions. Also when a time goes on distribution libraries goes
older and more version dependent workarounds must be provided (for
example GDAL 1.10 has better support for PostGIS raster and SpatiaLite)

> 
> The packages are only built on release, with the current dependencies at that
> point - and only updated, when manually when necessary.  But that also applies
> to both repositories.
>

PPA build could be less error prone than self made PBuilder. I am often
not sure if my pbuilder updated build deps when building packages
depending each other.


> 
>> What needs to be done ?:
> 
>> 1. Fine tuned Debian 'control' file to prevent conflicting installation of
>>packages after upgrading from distribution packages to UbuntuGIS
>>(this is the case for example in GDAL)
> 
> 0. Report those problems.

Yes, I am going to fix them in my PPA and send a patch. But I am not
sure where reports for PPAs should be submitted.

> 
> 
>> 2. More clearly described relation between ubuntugis-stable and
>>ubuntugis-unstable repositories (when the packages move from unstable to
>>stable ...)
> 
> Yes, that would be nice to know - I only upload to ubuntugis-unstable ;)

What I am missing for PPAs is some kind of wiki where these informations
could be placed.


Jurgen, thanks for your Debian/Ubuntu packaging.


-- 
Ivan Mincik
___
Qgis-developer mailing list
Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

Re: [Qgis-developer] Could ubuntugis PPA be a recommended repository for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu ?

2013-05-06 Thread Jürgen E . Fischer 
Hi Ivan,

On Mon, 06. May 2013 at 14:58:55 +0200, Ivan Mincik wrote:
> I wonder if ubuntugis PPA could be a recommended and only one repository
> for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu instead of distribution packaged version and
> package from 'http://qgis.org/debian'.

Recommended: ok.
Only: why?

I don't see the problem with a less intrusive version (ie. qgis on plain
ubuntu) and a more intrusive version (ie. qgis on ubuntugis).

Switching between the same versions from different repositories might be a
problem, but I suppose that doesn't happen often.

Maintaining both versions wasn't a big problem in the past, so I don't expect it
be come one in future.

The packages are only built on release, with the current dependencies at that
point - and only updated, when manually when necessary.  But that also applies
to both repositories.


> What needs to be done ?:

> 1. Fine tuned Debian 'control' file to prevent conflicting installation of
>packages after upgrading from distribution packages to UbuntuGIS
>(this is the case for example in GDAL)

0. Report those problems.


> 2. More clearly described relation between ubuntugis-stable and
>ubuntugis-unstable repositories (when the packages move from unstable to
>stable ...)

Yes, that would be nice to know - I only upload to ubuntugis-unstable ;)


Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer norBIT GmbH   Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH)   Rheinstraße 13Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer D-26506 Norden   http://www.norbit.de
committ(ed|ing) to Quantum GIS IRC: jef on FreeNode 


-- 
norBIT Gesellschaft fuer Unternehmensberatung und Informationssysteme mbH
Rheinstrasse 13, 26506 Norden
GF: Jelto Buurman, HR: Amtsgericht Emden, HRB 5502

___
Qgis-developer mailing list
Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

[Qgis-developer] Could ubuntugis PPA be a recommended repository for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu ?

2013-05-06 Thread Ivan Mincik 
Hi,
I wonder if ubuntugis PPA could be a recommended and only one repository
for QGIS 2.0 on Ubuntu instead of distribution packaged version and
package from 'http://qgis.org/debian'. Reasons are following:

1. Currently there are many installation sources for the same Ubuntu
platform which is confusing, providing different features and causing
the mess when people trying to switch between them.

2. Distribution package in Ubuntu is outdated, I doubt anyone i using it.

3. Package from 'http://qgis.org/debian' is build with outdated
dependencies, at least often missing upstream fixes from maintaining
releases and when the time is going on they are older and older.

4. UbuntuGIS can provide a solid platform for GIS packages maintained by
skilled Debian and Ubuntu devs, can quickly apply fixes from maintaining
releases of all dependencies and QGIS itself when provided by upstream.
UbuntuGIS can upgrade all packages from time to time to keep version up
to date.

5. Using uniform and only one package source can lower maintainig costs
either to build and test packages and also when trying to solve bugs.

5. PPAs could depend on each other so one can create separate PPA for
1.x version and separate for version 2.x which will depend on some
general PPA providing all build dependencies.

6. Using UbuntuGIS in more massive scale can bring more credit and
satisfaction for people who maintain it.



What needs to be done ?:
1. Fine tuned Debian 'control' file to prevent conflicting installation
of packages after upgrading from distribution packages to UbuntuGIS
(this is the case for example in GDAL)

2. More clearly described relation between ubuntugis-stable and
ubuntugis-unstable repositories (when the packages move from unstable to
stable ...)

3. Maybe creation of more complex PPA architecture for development,
staging and production.


Looking for you opinions.

-- 
Ivan Mincik
___
Qgis-developer mailing list
Qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer