[Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[haubourg]

Hi, 
just a note to keep in mind for next Windows package (for 2.0). I couldn't
use 1.8 standalone package in my corp. since spatialite librairies are out
of date. Qspatialite can't work with it, and i had many trouble creating and
importing into spatialite (error with geometry_columns, cast_to_multi() and
so on.. ). Almost a blocker in fact...

Second minor problem, globe is embedded, but really troubleshoots on
Windows. IMHO, really experimental things should no be in official
standalone package. 
I had some extra days of work to test and deploy a home-made package of
co-workers.. 

If somedy has some free time, a new package could help.. but this is not
critical

All the best 





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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Regis,

On Thu, 15. Nov 2012 at 06:37:36 -0800, haubourg wrote:
> just a note to keep in mind for next Windows package (for 2.0). I couldn't
> use 1.8 standalone package in my corp. since spatialite librairies are out
> of date. Qspatialite can't work with it, and i had many trouble creating and
> importing into spatialite (error with geometry_columns, cast_to_multi() and
> so on.. ). Almost a blocker in fact...

That probably was also true for the osgeo4w qgis-dev version at that point.
People should test it before release - as that's nearly what's going to in the
stable release.

And the osgeo4w packages are also what is used to build the standalone
installer (see ms-windows/osgeo4w/creatensis.pl).   So what doesn't work in
osgeo4w won't work in the standalone installer, too.

> If somedy has some free time, a new package could help.. but this is not
> critical

I think Guiseppe fixed the spatialite problem and Pirmin wanted to update the
globe dependencies.

Are there other problems in osgeo4w?

If not, running creatensis.pl again shouldn't be a problem.

BTW ECW support was meanwhile dropped in osgeo4w (after the GDAL update to
1.9.2) and also will lack in the next package.  Neither Frank nor I were able
to mobilize enough energy to jump though all the hoops they've put in front of
their SDK download.  IIRC also the licensing is somewhat strange to as it
allows client, but forbids server use and the user has to acknowledge it - so
we would even have to add own hoops...


JÃrgen

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[haubourg]

Hi Jurgen

Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
> That probably was also true for the osgeo4w qgis-dev version at that
> point.
> People should test it before release - as that's nearly what's going to in
> the
> stable release.

that's true.. I missed it. It's now in my use cases ;-)
My post was just a reminder, and a way to share troubles encountered so that
other could find it googling. No need for me to upgrade standalone now.
Priority is on 2.0. 



Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
> BTW ECW support was meanwhile dropped in osgeo4w (after the GDAL update to
> 1.9.2) and also will lack in the next package.  Neither Frank nor I were
> able
> to mobilize enough energy to jump though all the hoops they've put in
> front of
> their SDK download.  IIRC also the licensing is somewhat strange to as it
> allows client, but forbids server use and the user has to acknowledge it -
> so
> we would even have to add own hoops...

Do you mean that standard package for 2.0 won't embed ecw support?? I
recently made fresh installs with OSGEO4W and was pleased to have ecw
support out of the box again. 
Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a few days clarifying
ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS?? 



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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Regis,

On Thu, 15. Nov 2012 at 12:52:03 -0800, haubourg wrote:
> Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
> > BTW ECW support was meanwhile dropped in osgeo4w (after the GDAL update to
> > 1.9.2) and also will lack in the next package.  Neither Frank nor I were
> > able to mobilize enough energy to jump though all the hoops they've put in
> > front of their SDK download.  IIRC also the licensing is somewhat strange
> > to as it allows client, but forbids server use and the user has to
> > acknowledge it - so we would even have to add own hoops...

> Do you mean that standard package for 2.0 won't embed ecw support??  I
> recently made fresh installs with OSGEO4W and was pleased to have ecw support
> out of the box again.  Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a
> few days clarifying ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS?? 

Intergraph?

Anyway, that must have been before GDAL 1.9.2 - after that, the mrsid plugin,
if installed, even caused an instant crash.  But that package meanwhile rebuilt
for 1.9.2.

The current situation is no ECW support in OSGeo4W - and before we were also
only shipping the gdal ECW plugin, but not the ECW DLLs.

Building the 3.3 SDK from source with VC10 and doing a GDAL plugin based on
that also works, but the licensing/distribution issue for the ECW DLLs is
unclear to me - and therefore we didn't upload that plugin.  It's not usable
without VC10 builds of the 3.3 ECW DLLs and doubt that they are publically
available anywhere.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 15/11/2012 21:52, haubourg ha scritto:

> Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a few days clarifying
> ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS?? 

Hi all.
I understand the problem. I asked directly ERDAS a few years ago, so we had 
precise
guidelines. Now things have changed, so I'd suggest to:
- ask again the proprietary of the ECW software and patents about what we can 
and
what we can't do
- if they come out with reasonable requests, we can follow them
- if not, I guess the only option for corporate users is to prepare ad hoc 
packages
for redistribution within the company, as this might be allowed by the licence.
All the best.
-- 
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Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[Ramon Andiñach]

On 18/11/2012, at 15:10 , Paolo Cavallini wrote:

> Il 15/11/2012 21:52, haubourg ha scritto:
> 
>> Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a few days clarifying
>> ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS?? 
> 
> Hi all.
> I understand the problem. I asked directly ERDAS a few years ago, so we had 
> precise
> guidelines. Now things have changed, so I'd suggest to:
> - ask again the proprietary of the ECW software and patents about what we can 
> and
> what we can't do
> - if they come out with reasonable requests, we can follow them
> - if not, I guess the only option for corporate users is to prepare ad hoc 
> packages
> for redistribution within the company, as this might be allowed by the 
> licence.
> All the best.

Is this possible?
or has the horse bolted?

I'd volunteer to send the letter, but it should probably come from higher up 
the food chain than me :)
However, I'd be willing to reframe the letter so that they were made aware that 
there were users that they'd miss out on if they didn't give you reasonable 
guidelines. 
(and send it on a regular basis until you got an answer)

-ramon.

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[Ted]

Ramon

the current product manage for ECW is Chris Tweedie,
chris.twee...@intergraph.com  and for your good, he is based out of oz. so
can you please get in touch with him and help us clear this doubt?

the current version is 4.3 and the installer is password protected. You can
download it freely from intergraph site.
http://geospatial.intergraph.com/products/other/ecw/erdasecwjpeg2000sdk/downloads/ERDAS_ECW_JP2_SDK_Desktop_Read-Only_Version_4_3.aspx


the licensing agreement and the rest of the literature are here
http://geospatial.intergraph.com/products/other/ecw/erdasecwjpeg2000sdk/ProductLiterature.aspx

I really hope to get the ECW support back in GDAL and QGIS before v2
release.


Cheers

Ted





On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Ramon Andiñach wrote:

>
> On 18/11/2012, at 15:10 , Paolo Cavallini wrote:
>
> > Il 15/11/2012 21:52, haubourg ha scritto:
> >
> >> Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a few days
> clarifying
> >> ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS??
> >
> > Hi all.
> > I understand the problem. I asked directly ERDAS a few years ago, so we
> had precise
> > guidelines. Now things have changed, so I'd suggest to:
> > - ask again the proprietary of the ECW software and patents about what
> we can and
> > what we can't do
> > - if they come out with reasonable requests, we can follow them
> > - if not, I guess the only option for corporate users is to prepare ad
> hoc packages
> > for redistribution within the company, as this might be allowed by the
> licence.
> > All the best.
>
> Is this possible?
> or has the horse bolted?
>
> I'd volunteer to send the letter, but it should probably come from higher
> up the food chain than me :)
> However, I'd be willing to reframe the letter so that they were made aware
> that there were users that they'd miss out on if they didn't give you
> reasonable guidelines.
> (and send it on a regular basis until you got an answer)
>
> -ramon.
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[Ted]

the direct link for download

http://download.intergraph.com/software/2011/ECWJP2K_4_3_6_25/ECWJP2SDKSetup_RO.exe



On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Ted  wrote:

> Ramon
>
> the current product manage for ECW is Chris Tweedie,
> chris.twee...@intergraph.com  and for your good, he is based out of oz.
> so can you please get in touch with him and help us clear this doubt?
>
> the current version is 4.3 and the installer is password protected. You
> can download it freely from intergraph site.
>
> http://geospatial.intergraph.com/products/other/ecw/erdasecwjpeg2000sdk/downloads/ERDAS_ECW_JP2_SDK_Desktop_Read-Only_Version_4_3.aspx
>
>
> the licensing agreement and the rest of the literature are here
>
> http://geospatial.intergraph.com/products/other/ecw/erdasecwjpeg2000sdk/ProductLiterature.aspx
>
> I really hope to get the ECW support back in GDAL and QGIS before v2
> release.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Ramon Andiñach wrote:
>
>>
>> On 18/11/2012, at 15:10 , Paolo Cavallini wrote:
>>
>> > Il 15/11/2012 21:52, haubourg ha scritto:
>> >
>> >> Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a few days
>> clarifying
>> >> ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS??
>> >
>> > Hi all.
>> > I understand the problem. I asked directly ERDAS a few years ago, so we
>> had precise
>> > guidelines. Now things have changed, so I'd suggest to:
>> > - ask again the proprietary of the ECW software and patents about what
>> we can and
>> > what we can't do
>> > - if they come out with reasonable requests, we can follow them
>> > - if not, I guess the only option for corporate users is to prepare ad
>> hoc packages
>> > for redistribution within the company, as this might be allowed by the
>> licence.
>> > All the best.
>>
>> Is this possible?
>> or has the horse bolted?
>>
>> I'd volunteer to send the letter, but it should probably come from higher
>> up the food chain than me :)
>> However, I'd be willing to reframe the letter so that they were made
>> aware that there were users that they'd miss out on if they didn't give you
>> reasonable guidelines.
>> (and send it on a regular basis until you got an answer)
>>
>> -ramon.
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions

[andreaerdna]

Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
> Building the 3.3 SDK from source with VC10 and doing a GDAL plugin based
> on
> that also works, but the licensing/distribution issue for the ECW DLLs is
> unclear to me - and therefore we didn't upload that plugin.  It's not
> usable
> without VC10 builds of the 3.3 ECW DLLs and doubt that they are publically
> available anywhere.

Tamas Szekeres mantains, among other things, GDAL 1.9.2 binary packages on 
http://www.gisinternals.com/sdk    that
contain both ECW plugin and ESRI ECW 3.3 SDK (libecwj2.dll) MSVC2010
(2003/2005/2008 too) builds.

I tested them with OSGeo4W gdal 1.9.2-2 and qgis 1.8.0-5 / 1.9.0-176 and
seem to work properly without problems.

BTW, the OSGeo4W java-1.6.0_25-1 package contains (why ?) a gdal 1.7 ecw
plugin and an ESRI ECW 3.3 SDK binary libraries (NCSEcw.dll, NCSUtil.dll,
NCScnet.dll).

Andrea Giudiceandrea



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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ramon Andiñach]

On 16/11/2012, at 06:52 , Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:

> Hi Regis,
> 
> On Thu, 15. Nov 2012 at 12:52:03 -0800, haubourg wrote:
>> Jürgen E. Fischer wrote
>>> BTW ECW support was meanwhile dropped in osgeo4w (after the GDAL update to
>>> 1.9.2) and also will lack in the next package.  Neither Frank nor I were
>>> able to mobilize enough energy to jump though all the hoops they've put in
>>> front of their SDK download.  IIRC also the licensing is somewhat strange
>>> to as it allows client, but forbids server use and the user has to
>>> acknowledge it - so we would even have to add own hoops...
> 
>> Do you mean that standard package for 2.0 won't embed ecw support??  I
>> recently made fresh installs with OSGEO4W and was pleased to have ecw support
>> out of the box again.  Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a
>> few days clarifying ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS?? 
> 
> Intergraph?

Hexagon(Intergraph(ERDAS(ER Mapper(ECW - I think!
I don't think the ERDAS SDK has been been rebranded yet.

> Anyway, that must have been before GDAL 1.9.2 - after that, the mrsid plugin,
> if installed, even caused an instant crash.  But that package meanwhile 
> rebuilt
> for 1.9.2.
> 
> The current situation is no ECW support in OSGeo4W - and before we were also
> only shipping the gdal ECW plugin, but not the ECW DLLs.
> 
> Building the 3.3 SDK from source with VC10 and doing a GDAL plugin based on
> that also works, but the licensing/distribution issue for the ECW DLLs is
> unclear to me - and therefore we didn't upload that plugin.  It's not usable
> without VC10 builds of the 3.3 ECW DLLs and doubt that they are publically
> available anywhere.


Ah. 

Bummer. 

I suppose that was coming. 

Having had today to think on this I can hopefully say something a (little) bit 
more intelligent than this morning.

I've discovered that the wretched ER Viewer thing still exists and can help me 
out if need be. But - I'd very much prefer ecw to be accessible through 
osgeo4w/qgis.

It's been in my mind this last couple of weeks to ask you and Frank if there 
was something I could do to help with the gdal-ecw package (since it seems 
usually to be me making noise). But if it's a licensing thing, I doubt there's 
much I can do.

My read on the licence is that the "free" desktop download is for desktop only 
(so not servers), is distributable, and the end product must display the magic 
notice. I suppose my questions would be:
a) in the osgeo4w situation, who's responsible for that notice? Is it the QGIS 
team, the OSGeo packagers, or the user that adds the dlls? 
If the dlls were travelling with the plugin, then I'd expect the former two. As 
the dlls aren't distributed that way it might be that the person who added the 
dlls has to display the notice. Might it be enough to add some form of 
disclaimer (that the person installing the plugin warrants that they're 
following the licence conditions of the EDRAS SDK)?

b) Because the linux and mac gdal installs use the 3.3 SDK source .ecw support 
will continue in the current manner on those platforms?

c) Does anyone have an set of 3.3 dlls lying around somewhere?

d) If ECW support is disappearing from the osgeo4w packages (and so also the 
2.0 standalone when that happens) can it be made abundantly clear (in a visible 
to average user sort of way)?

Not meaning any criticism (it's not a particularly nice licence and I 
understand), just looking for a bit more clarity.

-ramon.
(Wondering if should I be signing up to one of the OSGeo lists and asking this 
there?)


 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Zirneklitis]

Ramon Andiñach wrote:

..
c) Does anyone have an set of 3.3 dlls lying around somewhere?
..



http://priede.bf.lu.lv/ftp/pub/GIS/failu_formaati/ECW_JP2/ECW_SDK/ECWJPEG2000SDK-2006-06-23-3.3.exe

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 18/11/2012 07:46, Zirneklitis ha scritto:
> 
> Ramon Andiñach wrote:
>> ..
>> c) Does anyone have an set of 3.3 dlls lying around somewhere?
>> ..
> 
> 
> http://priede.bf.lu.lv/ftp/pub/GIS/failu_formaati/ECW_JP2/ECW_SDK/ECWJPEG2000SDK-2006-06-23-3.3.exe

Are we sure this redistribution is legal? AFAIK, it was not at least until a 
couple
of years ago, and I have no clue the situation has improved since.
All the best.

-- 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Micha Silver]

  
  
On 16/11/2012 12:52, Ramon Andiñach
  wrote:


  
On 16/11/2012, at 06:52 , Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:


  
Hi Regis,

On Thu, 15. Nov 2012 at 12:52:03 -0800, haubourg wrote:


  Jürgen E. Fischer wrote

  
BTW ECW support was meanwhile dropped in osgeo4w (after the GDAL update to
1.9.2) and also will lack in the next package.  Neither Frank nor I were
able to mobilize enough energy to jump though all the hoops they've put in
front of their SDK download.  IIRC also the licensing is somewhat strange
to as it allows client, but forbids server use and the user has to
acknowledge it - so we would even have to add own hoops...

  




  





  
  


  
  

Ah. 

Bummer. 

I suppose that was coming. 


Yes, bummer indeed. Loosing support for those formats will, I think,
be serious hurdle in the further adoption of QGIS. Even though we
don't like the licensing, ecw and MrSid have become defacto
standards, with no replacement (until jpeg2000 stabilizes). 


  



Not meaning any criticism (it's not a particularly nice licence and I understand), just looking for a bit more clarity.



My feelings exactly. I certainly appreciate all the effort put in by
Jurgen, Frank and others to get the gdal-ecw library into OSGeo4W in
the past. If there's no way in 2.0 to allow users to download the
ECW-SDK, agreeing to the license, then add some dll's as was in the
past to add support for those formats, then it should be stated up
front - no ecw.

Thanks,
Micha

  
-ramon.
(Wondering if should I be signing up to one of the OSGeo lists and asking this there?)


 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Ramon,

On Fri, 16. Nov 2012 at 18:52:38 +0800, Ramon Andiñach wrote:
> b) Because the linux and mac gdal installs use the 3.3 SDK source .ecw
>support will continue in the current manner on those platforms?

That won't change.  From source nothing changes.   It's just that you need to
build the gdal ecw plugin to get ECW support and you need the SDK for that -
and that's the same as on Windows and Linux.

For debian for instance there's also no ecw binary - the available package that
has a script that builds the plugin for you, if you tell where you SDK is.

 
> c) Does anyone have an set of 3.3 dlls lying around somewhere?

Those won't help as they are probably not build with VC10 and are therefore
incompatible with the GDAL build (interface ECW<=>GDAL is C++; so unlike C the
ABI is an issue).
 
> d) If ECW support is disappearing from the osgeo4w packages (and so also the
>2.0 standalone when that happens) can it be made abundantly clear (in a
>visible to average user sort of way)?

In OSGeo4W the ecw package was already tagged obsolete.  For the standalone we
could add a big fat notice...


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ramon Andiñach]

And this time to the list (like I meant to.)

On 19/11/2012, at 11:29 , Ramon Andiñach wrote:

> On 19/11/2012, at 2:11, Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jürgen,
> Thanks for your answers. 
> 
>> Hi Ramon,
>> 
>> On Fri, 16. Nov 2012 at 18:52:38 +0800, Ramon Andiñach wrote:
>>> b) Because the linux and mac gdal installs use the 3.3 SDK source .ecw
>>>  support will continue in the current manner on those platforms?
>> 
>> That won't change.  From source nothing changes.   It's just that you need to
>> build the gdal ecw plugin to get ECW support and you need the SDK for that -
>> and that's the same as on Windows and Linux.
>> 
>> For debian for instance there's also no ecw binary - the available package 
>> that
>> has a script that builds the plugin for you, if you tell where you SDK is.
> 
> Ok. So if a windows user gets adventurous and decided to build the SDK and 
> ecw plugin (from the source) themselves will the OSGeo4w gdal be able to use 
> it?
> 
> Or will this necessitate a gdal recompile?
> 
>>> c) Does anyone have an set of 3.3 dlls lying around somewhere?
>> 
>> Those won't help as they are probably not build with VC10 and are therefore
>> incompatible with the GDAL build (interface ECW<=>GDAL is C++; so unlike C 
>> the
>> ABI is an issue).
> 
> Ok. I misunderstood.
> 
>>> d) If ECW support is disappearing from the osgeo4w packages (and so also the
>>>  2.0 standalone when that happens) can it be made abundantly clear (in a
>>>  visible to average user sort of way)?
>> 
>> In OSGeo4W the ecw package was already tagged obsolete.  For the standalone 
>> we
>> could add a big fat notice...
> 
> A *really* big fat notice. 
> 
> Are the gdal-ecw for older gdal versions going to remain visible in the 
> installer?
> (I can see someone trying one of those in an attempt to restore ecw 
> functionality.)
> 
> Apologies if I'm sounding thick. 
> -ramon.

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Ramon,

On Mon, 19. Nov 2012 at 12:50:26 +0800, Ramon Andiñach wrote:
> > Ok. So if a windows user gets adventurous and decided to build the SDK and
> > ecw plugin (from the source) themselves will the OSGeo4w gdal be able to
> > use it?

Yes, you just need to use the same compiler to build the SDK and the plugin -
ie. currently VC10.

> > Are the gdal-ecw for older gdal versions going to remain visible in the 
> > installer?
> > (I can see someone trying one of those in an attempt to restore ecw 
> > functionality.)

It's currently there - but marked obsolete.


Jürgen

-- 
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Dipl.-Inf. (FH)   Rheinstraße 13Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ramon Andiñach]

Ok. I'll go back through the licensing documentation in the next few days.

If I'm doing this I have some questions. (Jürgen, Paolo?)
What would appropriate questions would be? Paolo's comment below seems really 
open to me.
  (Neither developer or lawyer, so would appreciate comment).
What was the previous arrangement?
Am I asking just for myself as a concerned user, QGIS or OSGeo generally?
 If the last two can I speak for them?

-ramon.

On 15/01/2013, at 06:57 , Ted wrote:

> Ramon
> 
> the current product manage for ECW is Chris Tweedie,  
> chris.twee...@intergraph.com  and for your good, he is based out of oz. so 
> can you please get in touch with him and help us clear this doubt?
> 
> the current version is 4.3 and the installer is password protected. You can 
> download it freely from intergraph site.
> http://geospatial.intergraph.com/products/other/ecw/erdasecwjpeg2000sdk/downloads/ERDAS_ECW_JP2_SDK_Desktop_Read-Only_Version_4_3.aspx
> 
> 
> the licensing agreement and the rest of the literature are here
> http://geospatial.intergraph.com/products/other/ecw/erdasecwjpeg2000sdk/ProductLiterature.aspx
> 
> I really hope to get the ECW support back in GDAL and QGIS before v2 release.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ted
> 
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Ramon Andiñach  
> wrote:
> 
> On 18/11/2012, at 15:10 , Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> 
> > Il 15/11/2012 21:52, haubourg ha scritto:
> >
> >> Is there anything I can do (paying someone to spend a few days clarifying
> >> ECW situation) or are we trapped by ERDAS??
> >
> > Hi all.
> > I understand the problem. I asked directly ERDAS a few years ago, so we had 
> > precise
> > guidelines. Now things have changed, so I'd suggest to:
> > - ask again the proprietary of the ECW software and patents about what we 
> > can and
> > what we can't do
> > - if they come out with reasonable requests, we can follow them
> > - if not, I guess the only option for corporate users is to prepare ad hoc 
> > packages
> > for redistribution within the company, as this might be allowed by the 
> > licence.
> > All the best.
> 
> Is this possible?
> or has the horse bolted?
> 
> I'd volunteer to send the letter, but it should probably come from higher up 
> the food chain than me :)
> However, I'd be willing to reframe the letter so that they were made aware 
> that there were users that they'd miss out on if they didn't give you 
> reasonable guidelines.
> (and send it on a regular basis until you got an answer)
> 
> -ramon.
> 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 15/01/2013 00:28, Ramon Andiñach ha scritto:
> Ok. I'll go back through the licensing documentation in the next few days.
> 
> If I'm doing this I have some questions. (Jürgen, Paolo?)
> What would appropriate questions would be? Paolo's comment below seems really 
> open to me.
>   (Neither developer or lawyer, so would appreciate comment).
> What was the previous arrangement?

AFAICT, the SDK can be used for "dektop programs", not for servers. The issue 
is: if
we compile GDAL with non-free SDK, this can be used both for the desktop and 
for the
server (mapserver, QGSI server, etc.). It is unclear if the responsibility lies 
with
the user (so a warning "use only for desktop" is enough) of with the developer 
(in
this case, we cannot distribute it).
If someone has a better understanding, please let us know.
All the best.
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ramon Andiñach]

On 15/01/2013, at 15:27 , Paolo Cavallini wrote:

> Il 15/01/2013 00:28, Ramon Andiñach ha scritto:
>> Ok. I'll go back through the licensing documentation in the next few days.
>> 
>> If I'm doing this I have some questions. (Jürgen, Paolo?)
>> What would appropriate questions would be? Paolo's comment below seems 
>> really open to me.
>>  (Neither developer or lawyer, so would appreciate comment).
>> What was the previous arrangement?
> 
> AFAICT, the SDK can be used for "dektop programs", not for servers. The issue 
> is: if
> we compile GDAL with non-free SDK, this can be used both for the desktop and 
> for the
> server (mapserver, QGSI server, etc.). It is unclear if the responsibility 
> lies with
> the user (so a warning "use only for desktop" is enough) of with the 
> developer (in
> this case, we cannot distribute it).
> If someone has a better understanding, please let us know.
> All the best.

Thanks Paolo, much appreciated.

I've drafted a letter, but I'd like some feed back before I send it off.[1]

Along the lines of:
Does it make sense?
Am I understanding correctly?
Does it cover the questions that need asking?
and,
I'm not misrepresenting any of the QGIS or OSGeo camps and in any way?

Particularly, if Paolo, Jürgen and Frank had anything to say on the note that 
would be appreciated.


-ramon.

[1] https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwq8qzc6yvh27jx/QuestionsForIntergraph2012i15
(I can open the folder up if people have big notes, that would be better left 
there)
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Alister Hood]

> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:43:10 +0800
> From: Ramon Andi?ach 
> To: qgis-developer 
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK
>     withspatialite versions (ECW tangent)
> Message-ID: <2d60c7de-a02a-499e-a834-775dd67ad...@westnet.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> 
> On 15/01/2013, at 15:27 , Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> 
> > Il 15/01/2013 00:28, Ramon Andi?ach ha scritto:
> >> Ok. I'll go back through the licensing documentation in the next few days.
> >>
> >> If I'm doing this I have some questions. (J?rgen, Paolo?)
> >> What would appropriate questions would be? Paolo's comment below seems 
> >> really open to me.
> >>  (Neither developer or lawyer, so would appreciate comment).
> >> What was the previous arrangement?
> >
> > AFAICT, the SDK can be used for "dektop programs", not for servers. The 
> > issue is: if
> > we compile GDAL with non-free SDK, this can be used both for the desktop 
> > and for the
> > server (mapserver, QGSI server, etc.). It is unclear if the responsibility 
> > lies with
> > the user (so a warning "use only for desktop" is enough) of with the 
> > developer (in
> > this case, we cannot distribute it).
> > If someone has a better understanding, please let us know.
> > All the best.
> 
> Thanks Paolo, much appreciated.
> 
> I've drafted a letter, but I'd like some feed back before I send it off.[1]
> 
> Along the lines of:
> Does it make sense?
> Am I understanding correctly?
> Does it cover the questions that need asking?
> and,
> I'm not misrepresenting any of the QGIS or OSGeo camps and in any way?
> 
> Particularly, if Paolo, J?rgen and Frank had anything to say on the note that 
> would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> -ramon.
> 
> [1] https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwq8qzc6yvh27jx/QuestionsForIntergraph2012i15
> (I can open the folder up if people have big notes, that would be better left 
> there)

In relation to the last question in the letter, they are/were working on an 
updated Linux version:
http://field-guide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/erdas-ecwjp2-sdk-for-linux.html
http://field-guide.blogspot.co.nz/2012_05_01_archive.html
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ramon Andiñach]

And the list this time.
On 16/01/2013, at 06:24 , Ramon Andiñach wrote:

> 
> On 16/01/2013, at 04:13 , Alister Hood wrote:
> 
>>> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:43:10 +0800
>>> 
>>> I've drafted a letter, but I'd like some feed back before I send it off.[1]
>>> 
>>> Along the lines of:
>>> Does it make sense?
>>> Am I understanding correctly?
>>> Does it cover the questions that need asking?
>>> and,
>>> I'm not misrepresenting any of the QGIS or OSGeo camps and in any way?
>>> 
>>> Particularly, if Paolo, J?rgen and Frank had anything to say on the note 
>>> that would be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -ramon.
>>> 
>>> [1] https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwq8qzc6yvh27jx/QuestionsForIntergraph2012i15
>>> (I can open the folder up if people have big notes, that would be better 
>>> left there)
>> 
>> In relation to the last question in the letter, they are/were working on an 
>> updated Linux version:
>> http://field-guide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/erdas-ecwjp2-sdk-for-linux.html
>> http://field-guide.blogspot.co.nz/2012_05_01_archive.html
> 
> Thanks Alister, I'll adjust the last one to ask how the update is going.
> 
> From the looks of that I should add a question along the lines of if there 
> are anticipated licence changes between SDKv4 and the clearly being worked on 
> SDKv5.
> 
> -ramon.

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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ted]

just minor correction in your letter, Chris is "Product" manager for ECW

Just as I note, they have Read Only version of the SDK and also have few
other editions;

ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK is offered as four different editions:

   - *ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Server Read-Write* provides tools to enable server
   applications to read ECW, ECWP, and JPEG2000 data, serve ECW and JPEG2000
   data, and compress images into the ECW and JPEG2000 data formats.
   - *ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Server Read-Only* provides tools to enable end-user
   server applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000 data and serve ECW and
   JPEG2000 data via third-party server applications. For ESRI ArcGIS Server
   customers, please refer to ECW for ArcGIS
Server
   .
   - *ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Write* provides tools to enable
   desktop applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000 and compress images
   into ECW and JPEG2000 data formats.
   - *ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only* is a free product that provides
   tools to enable desktop applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000.


Since this is a major shift from the 3.3 SDK which allowed WRITE function
upto 500MB, we could use without much of a problem. After hexagon, there
has been lot of changes and also the licensing of SDK.

At the moment, for GDAL and well and general QGIS user, what we are looking
at is, DESKTOP READ ONLY SDK where by users could use ECW files in QGIS.

So, we need to be very specif about this.

They will never allow GDAL or anyone else to use the library for ECW
Serving function, without $. So, dont even bother to ask.

So, with GDAL, we should make a point to mark ECW as Read only format.


Thanks

Ted






On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Ramon Andiñach wrote:

> And the list this time.
> On 16/01/2013, at 06:24 , Ramon Andiñach wrote:
>
> >
> > On 16/01/2013, at 04:13 , Alister Hood wrote:
> >
> >>> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:43:10 +0800
> >>>
> >>> I've drafted a letter, but I'd like some feed back before I send it
> off.[1]
> >>>
> >>> Along the lines of:
> >>> Does it make sense?
> >>> Am I understanding correctly?
> >>> Does it cover the questions that need asking?
> >>> and,
> >>> I'm not misrepresenting any of the QGIS or OSGeo camps and in any way?
> >>>
> >>> Particularly, if Paolo, J?rgen and Frank had anything to say on the
> note that would be appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -ramon.
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dwq8qzc6yvh27jx/QuestionsForIntergraph2012i15
> >>> (I can open the folder up if people have big notes, that would be
> better left there)
> >>
> >> In relation to the last question in the letter, they are/were working
> on an updated Linux version:
> >>
> http://field-guide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/07/erdas-ecwjp2-sdk-for-linux.html
> >> http://field-guide.blogspot.co.nz/2012_05_01_archive.html
> >
> > Thanks Alister, I'll adjust the last one to ask how the update is going.
> >
> > From the looks of that I should add a question along the lines of if
> there are anticipated licence changes between SDKv4 and the clearly being
> worked on SDKv5.
> >
> > -ramon.
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Ramon Andiñach]

On 16/01/2013, at 15:23 , Ted wrote:

> just minor correction in your letter, Chris is "Product" manager for ECW

Noted. I'll fix that before sending it off.


> Just as I note, they have Read Only version of the SDK and also have few 
> other editions;
> 
> ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK is offered as four different editions:
> 
>   • ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Server Read-Write provides tools to enable server 
> applications to read ECW, ECWP, and JPEG2000 data, serve ECW and JPEG2000 
> data, and compress images into the ECW and JPEG2000 data formats.
>   • ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Server Read-Only provides tools to enable end-user 
> server applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000 data and serve ECW and 
> JPEG2000 data via third-party server applications. For ESRI ArcGIS Server 
> customers, please refer to ECW for ArcGIS Server.
>   • ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Write provides tools to enable desktop 
> applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000 and compress images into ECW and 
> JPEG2000 data formats.
>   • ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only is a free product that provides 
> tools to enable desktop applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000.
> 
> Since this is a major shift from the 3.3 SDK which allowed WRITE function 
> upto 500MB, we could use without much of a problem. After hexagon, there has 
> been lot of changes and also the licensing of SDK.
> 
> At the moment, for GDAL and well and general QGIS user, what we are looking 
> at is, DESKTOP READ ONLY SDK where by users could use ECW files in QGIS. 
> 
> So, we need to be very specif about this.
> 
> They will never allow GDAL or anyone else to use the library for ECW Serving 
> function, without $. So, dont even bother to ask.
See notes below.

> So, with GDAL, we should make a point to mark ECW as Read only format.
No. Currently that is only the situation for *windows* users, as everyone else 
is still using the 3.3 SDK, which as you note allows writing.


1. I thought it was reasonably clear that I was talking about the Desktop 
Read-Only SDK. If it's not, please say so.
I haven't made reference to any other of the licences in the explanation or the 
questions.

2. If I understand from Paolo and previously Jürgen, the really big sticking 
point is that it is possible to install a QGIS server on a GDAL with the 
desktop SDK plugged in. Depending on who's responsible for the correct use of 
the SDK defines the ease of which the ECW-plugin can be put back into service. 
So the clarifying questions 3 and 4 are in that sense the important ones.

If the responsible party is people like me (the user end) then a big fat 
warning as you suggest will probably do. Have to see what they say.
If the responsible party is the developer end, then the problem is *much* more 
difficult, as there would need to be ways built in to make sure that the 
desktop only part was *not* contravened. (As a User I can see this is 
complicated. Money may help, but it's also an ethical thing too.)

3. In light of the above I felt that the explanation leading into the questions 
was important to give a sense of where the questions were coming from.

Questions 1 and 2, we probably know the answers to, but it would be good to see 
if we can get straight answers on them.
Questions 3 and 4 are the important ones.
Questions 5 and 6 are requests for information.[1]

5. I've not even asked about the requirement to support both ECW and ECWP... 
This is pretty much a secondary hurdle to me.

6. I'm was about to head for bed so apologies if this is not as sensible as I'd 
like. I thought having my thoughts (such as they are) out while most others are 
awake would be worth it.

-ramon.
[1] Current version (with revisions based on Alister's earlier comments) is now 
here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5wclxeheeh4act/QuestionsForIntergraph2012i16
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Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK with spatialite versions (ECW tangent)

[Alister Hood]

> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 23:05:23 +0800
> From: Ramon Andi?ach 
> To: qgis-developer 
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] QGIS 1.8 Windows Standalone is not OK
>     withspatialite versions (ECW tangent)
> Message-ID: <69b6fc13-1441-4ba1-9ce4-5b98254ad...@westnet.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> 
> On 16/01/2013, at 15:23 , Ted wrote:
> 
> > just minor correction in your letter, Chris is "Product" manager for ECW
> 
> Noted. I'll fix that before sending it off.
> 
> 
> > Just as I note, they have Read Only version of the SDK and also have few 
> > other editions;
> >
> > ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK is offered as four different editions:
> >
> >   ? ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Server Read-Write provides tools to enable server 
> > applications to read ECW, ECWP, and JPEG2000 data, serve ECW and JPEG2000 
> > data, and compress images into the ECW and JPEG2000 data formats.
> >   ? ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Server Read-Only provides tools to enable 
> > end-user server applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000 data and serve 
> > ECW and JPEG2000 data via third-party server applications. For ESRI ArcGIS 
> > Server customers, please refer to ECW for ArcGIS Server.
> >   ? ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Write provides tools to enable 
> > desktop applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000 and compress images 
> > into ECW and JPEG2000 data formats.
> >   ? ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only is a free product that provides 
> > tools to enable desktop applications to read ECW, ECWP and JPEG2000.
> >
> > Since this is a major shift from the 3.3 SDK which allowed WRITE function 
> > upto 500MB, we could use without much of a problem. After hexagon, there 
> > has been lot of changes and also the licensing of SDK.
> >
> > At the moment, for GDAL and well and general QGIS user, what we are looking 
> > at is, DESKTOP READ ONLY SDK where by users could use ECW files in QGIS.
> >
> > So, we need to be very specif about this.
> >
> > They will never allow GDAL or anyone else to use the library for ECW 
> > Serving function, without $. So, dont even bother to ask.
> See notes below.
> 
> > So, with GDAL, we should make a point to mark ECW as Read only format.
> No. Currently that is only the situation for *windows* users, as everyone 
> else is still using the 3.3 SDK, which as you note allows writing.

Of course, on Windows gdal ecw can be used for a server or with write support 
if you do want to spend the money.
 
> 1. I thought it was reasonably clear that I was talking about the Desktop 
> Read-Only SDK. If it's not, please say so.
> I haven't made reference to any other of the licences in the explanation or 
> the questions.
> 
> 2. If I understand from Paolo and previously J?rgen, the really big sticking 
> point is that it is possible to install a QGIS server on a GDAL with the 
> desktop SDK plugged in. Depending on who's responsible for the correct use of 
> the SDK defines the ease of which the ECW-plugin can be put back into 
> service. So the clarifying questions 3 and 4 are in that sense the important 
> ones.
> 
> If the responsible party is people like me (the user end) then a big fat 
> warning as you suggest will probably do. Have to see what they say.
> If the responsible party is the developer end, then the problem is *much* 
> more difficult, as there would need to be ways built in to make sure that the 
> desktop only part was *not* contravened. (As a User I can see this is 
> complicated. Money may help, but it's also an ethical thing too.)
> 
> 3. In light of the above I felt that the explanation leading into the 
> questions was important to give a sense of where the questions were coming 
> from.
> 
> Questions 1 and 2, we probably know the answers to, but it would be good to 
> see if we can get straight answers on them.
> Questions 3 and 4 are the important ones.
> Questions 5 and 6 are requests for information.[1]
> 
> 5. I've not even asked about the requirement to support both ECW and ECWP... 
> This is pretty much a secondary hurdle to me.

Note that GDAL does support ECWP, so I think even if the QGIS gui does not 
provide a way to load it, that should be possible from the Python console or 
using a GDAL "service description" XML file or a .vrt file.  But I haven't 
tested as I've never come across ecwp in the wild...
 
> 6. I'm was about to head for bed so apologies if this is not as sensible as 
> I'd like. I thought having my thoughts (such as they are) out while most 
> others are awake would be worth it.
> 
> -ramon.
> [1] Current version (with revisions based on Alister's earlier comments) is 
> now here: 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5wclxeheeh4act/QuestionsForIntergraph2012i16
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