Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 20/10/2012 02:16, Nathan Woodrow ha scritto:

> I'm really not a big fan of those back and forward buttons.  My idea
> is to have a save button with three options:
> 
> Save as
> - Application favourite
> - Project favourite
> - File

sounds good to me, thanks.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Larry Shaffer]

Hi Nathan,

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Nathan Woodrow  wrote:
> Saving with the layer isn't really that complicated as we already do
> it for the qml files so the code is already all there just needs to be
> tweaked for expressions.  Although I do see project based and
> application wide expressions to be of more use then per-layer.
>
> I'm really not a big fan of those back and forward buttons.  My idea
> is to have a save button with three options:
>
> Save as
> - Application favourite
> - Project favourite
> - File
>
> All just save out a key value pair of name : expression. The
> application one is stored in the QSettings for QGIS, the project one
> in the project file, and the File one writes a file out with name :
> expression in the file.
>
> When you open the expression builder it will load all the name and
> expressions from QSettings and show them in the tree on the left in a
> node called: Favourite Expressions (App wide).  It will then read the
> project file and do the same but put them under: Favourite Expressions
> (Project).  After that the user can then load an expression from the
> file using the Load button much like the new Python console.
>
> This way a user can open the expression builder and pick a saved
> expression by name and it will be loaded into the expression text
> area. When the user single clicks on the named expression the
> expression text will be show in the help section on the right so that
> the user can see what it is without loading it.

If the saved expressions were 'named' (as you suggested, Nathan), it
would go a long way towards realizing better, extensible tokens in the
Print Composer [0].

The only difference would be the pasting of a token, based upon the
name and storage location (qgis, project, and possibly file; e.g.
[%qgis:mypagecount%] or [%prj:mycrstxt%] ) instead of the expression
itself being hard-coded into the label text (though that's already
much better than before, thanks Hugo).

It would be handy to embed tokens inside of tokens, i.e. named
sub-expressions inside of other expressions, but that might be getting
a bit crazy.  :^)

Allowing the user to edit, or at least overwrite, a saved named
expression would also be a useful feature.

[0] http://hub.qgis.org/issues/6269

Larry

> - Nathan
>
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Anita Graser  wrote:
>> Maybe we could just have an interface similar to Spatialite GUI where
>> there are forward/backwards buttons besides the SQL input area. They
>> allow to go back in command history.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Bob and Deb]

How about saving expressions in a "Clipbook"?  An expression can be pasted
into a "Clipbook" which would also bring up a dialog to enter a name for
the expression.  Several "Clipbooks" can be created in order to organize
these saved expressions.  This would be handy in the Python console too.
Btw, this how the text editor called Textpad works.
On Oct 18, 2012 11:21 PM, "Andreas Neumann"  wrote:

> Hi Paolo,
>
> What do you expect from the loading? Automatic application to the field
> calculator (sounds scary to me), or just the ability to choose from past
> expressions?
>
> If the latter, then maybe a central expression storage (per user) would
> make more sense than a per layer expression store. Because you may want to
> reuse the same expression on another similar layer, even in different
> projects.
>
> To me the expressions do not have a natural 1:1 match to a layer like the
> .prj or the .qml file has.
>
> But I can see value in a central storage of expressions used in the past,
> regardless of layer and QGIS project. But it would just be used as a way to
> load and save expressions as templates to start from and not an automatic
> application to some calculation or the label engines. These settings should
> be better stored in the project itself rather than in a separate file.
>
> Do we agree on that or did I misunderstand you?
>
> Andreas
>
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 07:58:57 +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
>
>> Il 19/10/2012 07:51, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:
>>
>>> For me personally, copy/paste works fine. No need for load and save.
>>>
>>> I do not fully understand the use case for autoloading (association
>>> with a layer). Can you explain why this is desirable? Do you really
>>> always want the same expression in all projects for one particular layer?
>>>
>> I think users will fin useful to have their expression per layer, so
>> they can refresh a field with the same calculation, without the need to
>> rememberwhich formula they used (very stupi example: refreshing the AREA
>> field). In this way, a DBF can be used almost like a spreadsheet.
>> For advanced users it is probably useless, for newbies it can save a
>> loto of time, effort and frustration remembering which expression they
>> used, what is the exact syntax, where (if) they copied the expression
>> somewhere, etc.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>
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> --
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> Böschacherstrasse 10A
> 8624 Grüt (Gossau ZH)
> Switzerland
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Nathan Woodrow]

Saving with the layer isn't really that complicated as we already do
it for the qml files so the code is already all there just needs to be
tweaked for expressions.  Although I do see project based and
application wide expressions to be of more use then per-layer.

I'm really not a big fan of those back and forward buttons.  My idea
is to have a save button with three options:

Save as
- Application favourite
- Project favourite
- File

All just save out a key value pair of name : expression. The
application one is stored in the QSettings for QGIS, the project one
in the project file, and the File one writes a file out with name :
expression in the file.

When you open the expression builder it will load all the name and
expressions from QSettings and show them in the tree on the left in a
node called: Favourite Expressions (App wide).  It will then read the
project file and do the same but put them under: Favourite Expressions
(Project).  After that the user can then load an expression from the
file using the Load button much like the new Python console.

This way a user can open the expression builder and pick a saved
expression by name and it will be loaded into the expression text
area. When the user single clicks on the named expression the
expression text will be show in the help section on the right so that
the user can see what it is without loading it.

- Nathan

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Anita Graser  wrote:
> Maybe we could just have an interface similar to Spatialite GUI where
> there are forward/backwards buttons besides the SQL input area. They
> allow to go back in command history.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Nathan Woodrow]

I think you miss understand what is meant by saved expressions.  It
would only be the expression text that is saved in the project file
with maybe a name:

name : expression
name : expression
name : expression

when the expression builder is open we just look in the project and
read in the expressions into the tree on the left so the user can pick
from a pre-saved on.  Think of them as favourite expressions.

- Nathan

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 2:51 AM, mmekuria  wrote:
> I would ask for simplicity and ease of use. Why make the project file
> bloated and prone to corruption by adding field calculations data into it?
> What would happen if a field is deleted and there is a calculation is to be
> done against it? I have had to edit some project files because they were
> crashing for missing layers
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[mmekuria]

I would liek saving expressions in file and a directory of my own choosing
would be ideal. At least that is what ArcGIS had (As far as version 9.3,
that I have used in the past.)

I would ask for simplicity and ease of use. Why make the project file
bloated and prone to corruption by adding field calculations data into it?
What would happen if a field is deleted and there is a calculation is to be
done against it? I have had to edit some project files because they were
crashing for missing layers.

Maaza 



-
Maaza Christos, PhD
www.Axumcorp.com

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Anita Graser]

I agree with Alister that saving expressions for every layer seems
overly complex.

Maybe we could just have an interface similar to Spatialite GUI where
there are forward/backwards buttons besides the SQL input area. They
allow to go back in command history.

Best wishes,
Anita


On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Alister Hood
 wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Personally I think saving expressions for every layer is unnecessarily 
> complicated.  Have you thought of just having a drop-down list of recently 
> used expressions, and the ability to "pin" your favourite expressions to the 
> list?  Do people really need expressions to be saved alongside the 
> project/layer?
> How are you thinking about doing the gui?  Even if you do implement "program" 
> and "layer" lists of expressions, you could do something like that for the 
> gui: display a list of recently used expressions grouped under "this layer" 
> and "other layers", and with the ability to "pin" favourite expressions.
>
> Alister
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Alister Hood]

Hi guys,
Personally I think saving expressions for every layer is unnecessarily 
complicated.  Have you thought of just having a drop-down list of recently used 
expressions, and the ability to "pin" your favourite expressions to the list?  
Do people really need expressions to be saved alongside the project/layer?
How are you thinking about doing the gui?  Even if you do implement "program" 
and "layer" lists of expressions, you could do something like that for the gui: 
display a list of recently used expressions grouped under "this layer" and 
"other layers", and with the ability to "pin" favourite expressions.

Alister
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Nathan Woodrow]

Let me see what I can come up with after my exams are finished in a
week.

Sent from some fancy phone looking thingo
From: Paolo Cavallini
Sent: 19/10/2012 4:29 PM
To: Andreas Neumann
Cc: Nathan Woodrow; qgis-developer
Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions
Il 19/10/2012 08:21, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:
>
> What do you expect from the loading? Automatic application to the
> field calculator (sounds scary to me), or just the ability to choose
> from past expressions?
I meant the latter.
>
> To me the expressions do not have a natural 1:1 match to a layer like
> the .prj or the .qml file has.
Yes, but a list of the expressions used for that table would be useful
(and probably very easy to do).
>
> But I can see value in a central storage of expressions used in the
> past, regardless of layer and QGIS project. But it would just be used
> as a way to load and save expressions as templates to start from and
> not an automatic application to some calculation or the label engines.
> These settings should be better stored in the project itself rather
> than in a separate file.
This is not my original idea, but I agree it is an interesting
alternative, with its advantages.
Kind of a log of the expressions used per user is a slight variance of this.
All the best, and thanks.

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 19/10/2012 08:28, Nathan Woodrow ha scritto:
> We can always have a save button that the user can pick to save a
> Application based expression (saved in the QGIS settings), or saved in
> the project file. I can see use cases for both.
>
Yes, several slightly different usages.
Thanks for thoughts.

-- 
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www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 19/10/2012 08:21, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:
>
> What do you expect from the loading? Automatic application to the
> field calculator (sounds scary to me), or just the ability to choose
> from past expressions?
I meant the latter.
>
> To me the expressions do not have a natural 1:1 match to a layer like
> the .prj or the .qml file has.
Yes, but a list of the expressions used for that table would be useful
(and probably very easy to do).
>
> But I can see value in a central storage of expressions used in the
> past, regardless of layer and QGIS project. But it would just be used
> as a way to load and save expressions as templates to start from and
> not an automatic application to some calculation or the label engines.
> These settings should be better stored in the project itself rather
> than in a separate file.
This is not my original idea, but I agree it is an interesting
alternative, with its advantages.
Kind of a log of the expressions used per user is a slight variance of this.
All the best, and thanks.

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Nathan Woodrow]

We can always have a save button that the user can pick to save a
Application based expression (saved in the QGIS settings), or saved in
the project file. I can see use cases for both.

Nathan

From: Andreas Neumann
Sent: 19/10/2012 4:21 PM
To: Paolo Cavallini
Cc: Nathan Woodrow; qgis-developer
Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions
 Hi Paolo,

 What do you expect from the loading? Automatic application to the field
 calculator (sounds scary to me), or just the ability to choose from past
 expressions?

 If the latter, then maybe a central expression storage (per user) would
 make more sense than a per layer expression store. Because you may want
 to reuse the same expression on another similar layer, even in different
 projects.

 To me the expressions do not have a natural 1:1 match to a layer like
 the .prj or the .qml file has.

 But I can see value in a central storage of expressions used in the
 past, regardless of layer and QGIS project. But it would just be used as
 a way to load and save expressions as templates to start from and not an
 automatic application to some calculation or the label engines. These
 settings should be better stored in the project itself rather than in a
 separate file.

 Do we agree on that or did I misunderstand you?

 Andreas

 On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 07:58:57 +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> Il 19/10/2012 07:51, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:
>> For me personally, copy/paste works fine. No need for load and save.
>>
>> I do not fully understand the use case for autoloading (association
>> with a layer). Can you explain why this is desirable? Do you really
>> always want the same expression in all projects for one particular
>> layer?
> I think users will fin useful to have their expression per layer, so
> they can refresh a field with the same calculation, without the need
> to
> rememberwhich formula they used (very stupi example: refreshing the
> AREA
> field). In this way, a DBF can be used almost like a spreadsheet.
> For advanced users it is probably useless, for newbies it can save a
> loto of time, effort and frustration remembering which expression
> they
> used, what is the exact syntax, where (if) they copied the expression
> somewhere, etc.
>
> All the best.

-- 
 --
 Andreas Neumann
 Böschacherstrasse 10A
 8624 Grüt (Gossau ZH)
 Switzerland
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Bernhard Ströbl]

Hi,

I could imagine having several expressions for one layer (depending on 
the field I want to do calculations on) so autoload needs to depend on 
the layer and the field. On the other hand I could imagine having an 
area field in many layers which I want to update with the geometry's 
area. So a possibility to choose from saved expressions (independent of 
the layer) would come in handy, otherwise I end up copy-pasting the same 
expression from one layer to the other :-(
Besides: Shape files are only one data format. If we save only the 
expressions (last ten, or in a user-defined structure) we can apply them 
to any vector data) or the layer expressions are saved in the project(?)

So Nathan, for me it would be both then :)

just some thoughts...

regards

Bernhard

Am 19.10.2012 07:58, schrieb Paolo Cavallini:

Il 19/10/2012 07:51, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:

For me personally, copy/paste works fine. No need for load and save.

I do not fully understand the use case for autoloading (association
with a layer). Can you explain why this is desirable? Do you really
always want the same expression in all projects for one particular layer?

I think users will fin useful to have their expression per layer, so
they can refresh a field with the same calculation, without the need to
rememberwhich formula they used (very stupi example: refreshing the AREA
field). In this way, a DBF can be used almost like a spreadsheet.
For advanced users it is probably useless, for newbies it can save a
loto of time, effort and frustration remembering which expression they
used, what is the exact syntax, where (if) they copied the expression
somewhere, etc.

All the best.





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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi Paolo,

What do you expect from the loading? Automatic application to the field 
calculator (sounds scary to me), or just the ability to choose from past 
expressions?


If the latter, then maybe a central expression storage (per user) would 
make more sense than a per layer expression store. Because you may want 
to reuse the same expression on another similar layer, even in different 
projects.


To me the expressions do not have a natural 1:1 match to a layer like 
the .prj or the .qml file has.


But I can see value in a central storage of expressions used in the 
past, regardless of layer and QGIS project. But it would just be used as 
a way to load and save expressions as templates to start from and not an 
automatic application to some calculation or the label engines. These 
settings should be better stored in the project itself rather than in a 
separate file.


Do we agree on that or did I misunderstand you?

Andreas

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 07:58:57 +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:

Il 19/10/2012 07:51, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:

For me personally, copy/paste works fine. No need for load and save.

I do not fully understand the use case for autoloading (association
with a layer). Can you explain why this is desirable? Do you really
always want the same expression in all projects for one particular 
layer?

I think users will fin useful to have their expression per layer, so
they can refresh a field with the same calculation, without the need 
to
rememberwhich formula they used (very stupi example: refreshing the 
AREA

field). In this way, a DBF can be used almost like a spreadsheet.
For advanced users it is probably useless, for newbies it can save a
loto of time, effort and frustration remembering which expression 
they

used, what is the exact syntax, where (if) they copied the expression
somewhere, etc.

All the best.


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Böschacherstrasse 10A
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Switzerland
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 19/10/2012 07:51, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:
> For me personally, copy/paste works fine. No need for load and save.
>
> I do not fully understand the use case for autoloading (association
> with a layer). Can you explain why this is desirable? Do you really
> always want the same expression in all projects for one particular layer?
I think users will fin useful to have their expression per layer, so
they can refresh a field with the same calculation, without the need to
rememberwhich formula they used (very stupi example: refreshing the AREA
field). In this way, a DBF can be used almost like a spreadsheet.
For advanced users it is probably useless, for newbies it can save a
loto of time, effort and frustration remembering which expression they
used, what is the exact syntax, where (if) they copied the expression
somewhere, etc.

All the best.

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Andreas Neumann]

For me personally, copy/paste works fine. No need for load and save.

I do not fully understand the use case for autoloading (association with a 
layer). Can you explain why this is desirable? Do you really always want the 
same expression in all projects for one particular layer?

In my experience, expressions are used in very specific situations and are 
generally not really reusable too often.

Thank you for further explanations.

Andreas



Paolo Cavallini  schrieb:

>Il 19/10/2012 00:01, Nathan Woodrow ha scritto:
>> Hey Paolo,
>>
>> Yes I have thought about this, just never got the time to flesh it
>out.
>> What would peoples choice be for saving expressions. I have thought
>> about the last 10 used but having them per layer could be handy to,
>or
>> maybe both.
>To me, having them per layer, and loading them automatically if saved
>with the same name, seems the most logical way.
>Thanks.
>
>-- 
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>www.faunalia.eu
>Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
>Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 19/10/2012 00:01, Nathan Woodrow ha scritto:
> Hey Paolo,
>
> Yes I have thought about this, just never got the time to flesh it out.
> What would peoples choice be for saving expressions. I have thought
> about the last 10 used but having them per layer could be handy to, or
> maybe both.
To me, having them per layer, and loading them automatically if saved
with the same name, seems the most logical way.
Thanks.

-- 
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www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Nathan Woodrow]

Hey Paolo,

Yes I have thought about this, just never got the time to flesh it out.
What would peoples choice be for saving expressions. I have thought
about the last 10 used but having them per layer could be handy to, or
maybe both.


- Nathan

Sent from some fancy phone looking thingo
From: Paolo Cavallini
Sent: 18/10/2012 2:32 AM
To: qgis-developer
Subject: [Qgis-developer] Saving expressions
Hi all.
Currently we can use a variety of expressions in field calculator.
UNfortunately, they cannot be saved (if not copypasting as text). It
seems feasible and reasonable to save them as an XML, so we can reload
it. If saved with the same name and in the same dir as the original
file, they could be autoloaded just as we do for styles. In this way it
would be easy to keep calculations updated.
Thoughts?
All the best.

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario

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[Qgis-developer] Saving expressions

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi all.
Currently we can use a variety of expressions in field calculator.
UNfortunately, they cannot be saved (if not copypasting as text). It
seems feasible and reasonable to save them as an XML, so we can reload
it. If saved with the same name and in the same dir as the original
file, they could be autoloaded just as we do for styles. In this way it
would be easy to keep calculations updated.
Thoughts?
All the best.

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario

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