Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
El dom, 21-03-2010 a las 23:01 +0100, Milena Nowotarska escribió: > Hi All, > > I guess that many users work not only with WGS84 projection (which is > set by default in QGIS) so I would like to discuss with you a change > in QGIS behaviour on loading a layer. > > In my opinion it would be good if QGIS: > [...] > b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it You can configure QGIS to do this. Edit > Options, SRC, select "Prompt for CRS". I think this should be the default as it is more informative for new users. ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Carson Farmer pisze: > Maxim pisze: >> Milena pisze: I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already georeferenced: "Layer Spatial Reference System: +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. I agree, the layer properties should not use this as default if prj is missing or should clearly indicate somehow that this is a guessed CRS, not necessarily a real one. I agree as well. In case of no prj or other CRS information and no default CRS defined, it would likely be best if the CRS was set to "Unknown (Assumed Geographic)" or something like this. Don't assume anything would be my preferred bahaviour. If the georeference is missing, tell it to the user and let him choose the right one. If the georeference seems to be present but is not understanable/ambigous for QGIS, I'd like QGIS be verbose about it and let the user choose a CRS. Maciek -- Maciej Sieczka http://www.sieczka.org ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
big +1 from me also - allthough it sounds after a "not so easy" implementation .. but that sounds like I would expect it to work also .. regards Werner > > +1, i also think your suggestions make working with qgis more > user-friendly. > > Regards, > Otto > > > +1 on each of a-c. > > > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Milena Nowotarska wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I guess that many users work not only with WGS84 projection (which > > > is set by default in QGIS) so I would like to discuss with you a > > > change in QGIS behaviour on loading a layer. > > > > > > In my opinion it would be good if QGIS: > > > a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from > > > the first loaded layer if it has the projection information > > > b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it > > > c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded > > > layers do not match the projection already set in the working > > > environment (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) > > > > > > Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, > > > 2177), every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS and, > > > on the other tab change units from degrees to meters. If I forget > > > to do that, I will get strange scale and strange measurement output. > > > At least the change form geographic to metric projection should > > > force the change of units. Otherwise we won't be able to say that > > > QGIS is user friendly ;) > > > > > > What in your opinion should be the most expected behaviour in a > > > good GIS system? > > > > > > I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer > > > properties and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is > > > already georeferenced: > > > "Layer Spatial Reference System: > > > +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" > > > which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS > > > users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. > > > > > > Best, > > > Milena > > > > > > -- > > > Milena Nowotarska > > > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Milena_Nowotarska > > > http://quantum-gis.pl/ > > > ___ > > > Qgis-user mailing list > > > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user > > > > ___ > > Qgis-user mailing list > > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user > ___ > Qgis-user mailing list > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Am Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:04:29 -0700 schrieb "John C. Tull" : +1, i also think your suggestions make working with qgis more user-friendly. Regards, Otto > +1 on each of a-c. > > On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Milena Nowotarska wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I guess that many users work not only with WGS84 projection (which > > is set by default in QGIS) so I would like to discuss with you a > > change in QGIS behaviour on loading a layer. > > > > In my opinion it would be good if QGIS: > > a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from > > the first loaded layer if it has the projection information > > b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it > > c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded > > layers do not match the projection already set in the working > > environment (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) > > > > Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, > > 2177), every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS and, > > on the other tab change units from degrees to meters. If I forget > > to do that, I will get strange scale and strange measurement output. > > At least the change form geographic to metric projection should > > force the change of units. Otherwise we won't be able to say that > > QGIS is user friendly ;) > > > > What in your opinion should be the most expected behaviour in a > > good GIS system? > > > > I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer > > properties and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is > > already georeferenced: > > "Layer Spatial Reference System: > > +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" > > which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS > > users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. > > > > Best, > > Milena > > > > -- > > Milena Nowotarska > > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Milena_Nowotarska > > http://quantum-gis.pl/ > > ___ > > Qgis-user mailing list > > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user > > ___ > Qgis-user mailing list > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
On 22/03/2010 01:14, Carson Farmer wrote: Hello All, MN> I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties MN> and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already MN> georeferenced: MN> "Layer Spatial Reference System: MN> +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" MN> which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS MN> users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. I agree, the layer properties should not use this as default if prj is missing or should clearly indicate somehow that this is a guessed CRS, not necessarily a real one. I agree as well. In case of no prj or other CRS information and no default CRS defined, it would likely be best if the CRS was set to "Unknown (Assumed Geographic)" or something like this. It wouldn't be too hard to add this to the current CRS db as an additional available CRS, and when users have a quick look at a layer's CRS, they will instantly see that they have to properly define the CRS if they want to use the layer properly. Thanks for bringing this issue up again. (It's been on the list before but I can't find the link just now). The ways to deal with layers of unknown projection were named (not by me) the "GRASS way" and the "Arc way": GRASS forces the user to choose a CRS at program startup, then each layer must match that CRS. NO o-t-f re-projection. Arc* starts in the CRS of the first layer, then automatically does o-t-f re-projection without any notification. GRASS is a bit more difficult, but better in some ways. Arc* is a bit easier but has some unfortunate disadvantages. The behavior I'd like to see in QGIS is- allow users to choose which system they want. It could work well, I think, as follows: In the Options->CRS tab I can choose a global CRS. Currently this CRS applies only to new layers (if I select that option). I would like to see an additional option to apply the Global CRS to all new *projects* including CRS units. So after a user chooses a global CRS, he can then select if he wants it to apply to all layers with unknown CRS (as is now), and he can also choose if it should be the default for all new projects. This would serve for those who always work in the same CRS, but not epsg:4326. Then there should be a third option, to prompt for project CRS on each opening of a new project (aka the GRASS way) for those who jump between between different coordinate systems. Then, as others mentioned, there should be some visual notification that a layer will not be visible (i.e. raster in a different CRS) or that its projection is unknown. Thanks, Micha Just my two cents! Carson -- Micha Silver http://www.surfaces.co.il/ Arava Development Co. +972-52-3665918 ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
On 03/21/2010 04:05 PM, Milena Nowotarska wrote: > Hi Maxim, > > 2010/3/21 Maxim Dubinin : >> Hi >> >> I agree that some improvements can be made, but I'd suggest to make >> some of the suggested ones configurable through Settings. > >> MN> a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from the >> MN> first loaded layer if it has the projection information >> Yes, if such behavior is wanted by QGIS user and certain checkbox is >> "on" in Settings. I would avoid making this decision for the user >> automatically. So default - "off". > > +1 and ticked once should stay default for further use >> >> MN> b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it >> No. This will slow down work for those who just want to see the data >> or make some quick edits. Again, this can be configurable in a) >> fasion. >> >> MN> c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded layers >> MN> do not match the projection already set in the working environment >> MN> (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) >> +1 >> >> MN> Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, 2177), >> MN> every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS. >> Why don't you create a prj file then? > > I do have prj for these layers, but layer prj do not affect QGIS > environment in any way now. > > Milena This sounds like a bug that's been irritating me for a while where prj files seemed to be ignored a lot of the time. Possibly because OGR can't read it (ESRI created prj are known to cause issues occasionally). Maybe the code for that needs to be a little more robust in error handling, and I agree with the idea to mark a layer as undefined(assumed geographic) if it's prj isn't readable - maybe even say the prj read was attempted but didn't work in the metadata tab. All good suggestions if they are user configurable and the default is to be as intrusive as possible. Alex ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
+1 on each of a-c. On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Milena Nowotarska wrote: > Hi All, > > I guess that many users work not only with WGS84 projection (which is > set by default in QGIS) so I would like to discuss with you a change > in QGIS behaviour on loading a layer. > > In my opinion it would be good if QGIS: > a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from the > first loaded layer if it has the projection information > b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it > c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded layers > do not match the projection already set in the working environment > (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) > > Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, 2177), > every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS and, on the > other tab change units from degrees to meters. If I forget to do that, > I will get strange scale and strange measurement output. > At least the change form geographic to metric projection should force > the change of units. Otherwise we won't be able to say that QGIS is > user friendly ;) > > What in your opinion should be the most expected behaviour in a good GIS > system? > > I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties > and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already > georeferenced: > "Layer Spatial Reference System: > +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" > which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS > users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. > > Best, > Milena > > -- > Milena Nowotarska > http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Milena_Nowotarska > http://quantum-gis.pl/ > ___ > Qgis-user mailing list > Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Hello All, Milena Nowotarska wrote: Hi All, I guess that many users work not only with WGS84 projection (which is set by default in QGIS) so I would like to discuss with you a change in QGIS behaviour on loading a layer. In my opinion it would be good if QGIS: a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from the first loaded layer if it has the projection information I agree. It is a quicker way to work rather than having to specifically set up the project as well. If the user has a raster and loads it first then it ensures that it can be displayed. This is how MapInfo handles setting the map projection. b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it The options in Settings->Options->CRS handle this pretty well I think. c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded layers do not match the projection already set in the working environment (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) I agree. I am not convinced the the reprojection on the fly is working properly though as it looks like QGIS does not store co-ordinate transform information for each layer. I put in a bug report on Saturday night (https://trac.osgeo.org/qgis/ticket/2567) and will wait and see what people more familiar with the code think. Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, 2177), every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS and, on the other tab change units from degrees to meters. If I forget to do that, I will get strange scale and strange measurement output. At least the change form geographic to metric projection should force the change of units. Otherwise we won't be able to say that QGIS is user friendly ;) What in your opinion should be the most expected behaviour in a good GIS system? I would also suggest that if a layer cannot be displayed (eg it is a raster in a different CRS to the map, or even if it is outside the scale limits) then it could be indicated in the legend - greyed, strike through etc. Maybe the map tip could explain why. I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already georeferenced: "Layer Spatial Reference System: +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. Best, Milena ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Hello All, > MN> I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties > MN> and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already > MN> georeferenced: > MN> "Layer Spatial Reference System: > MN> +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" > MN> which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS > MN> users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. > I agree, the layer properties should not use this as default if prj is > missing or should clearly indicate somehow that this is a guessed CRS, > not necessarily a real one. I agree as well. In case of no prj or other CRS information and no default CRS defined, it would likely be best if the CRS was set to "Unknown (Assumed Geographic)" or something like this. It wouldn't be too hard to add this to the current CRS db as an additional available CRS, and when users have a quick look at a layer's CRS, they will instantly see that they have to properly define the CRS if they want to use the layer properly. Just my two cents! Carson -- Carson J. Q. Farmer ISSP Doctoral Fellow National Centre for Geocomputation National University of Ireland, Maynooth, http://www.carsonfarmer.com/ ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Hi Maxim, 2010/3/21 Maxim Dubinin : > Hi > > I agree that some improvements can be made, but I'd suggest to make > some of the suggested ones configurable through Settings. > MN> a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from the > MN> first loaded layer if it has the projection information > Yes, if such behavior is wanted by QGIS user and certain checkbox is > "on" in Settings. I would avoid making this decision for the user > automatically. So default - "off". +1 and ticked once should stay default for further use > > MN> b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it > No. This will slow down work for those who just want to see the data > or make some quick edits. Again, this can be configurable in a) > fasion. > > MN> c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded layers > MN> do not match the projection already set in the working environment > MN> (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) > +1 > > MN> Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, 2177), > MN> every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS. > Why don't you create a prj file then? I do have prj for these layers, but layer prj do not affect QGIS environment in any way now. Milena > > MN> I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties > MN> and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already > MN> georeferenced: > MN> "Layer Spatial Reference System: > MN> +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" > MN> which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS > MN> users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. > I agree, the layer properties should not use this as default if prj is > missing or should clearly indicate somehow that this is a guessed CRS, > not necessarily a real one. > > Maxim > > -- Milena Nowotarska http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Milena_Nowotarska http://quantum-gis.pl/ ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Hi I agree that some improvements can be made, but I'd suggest to make some of the suggested ones configurable through Settings. MN> a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from the MN> first loaded layer if it has the projection information Yes, if such behavior is wanted by QGIS user and certain checkbox is "on" in Settings. I would avoid making this decision for the user automatically. So default - "off". MN> b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it No. This will slow down work for those who just want to see the data or make some quick edits. Again, this can be configurable in a) fasion. MN> c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded layers MN> do not match the projection already set in the working environment MN> (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) +1 MN> Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, 2177), MN> every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS. Why don't you create a prj file then? MN> I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties MN> and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already MN> georeferenced: MN> "Layer Spatial Reference System: MN> +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" MN> which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS MN> users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. I agree, the layer properties should not use this as default if prj is missing or should clearly indicate somehow that this is a guessed CRS, not necessarily a real one. Maxim ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
[Qgis-user] CRS for a start
Hi All, I guess that many users work not only with WGS84 projection (which is set by default in QGIS) so I would like to discuss with you a change in QGIS behaviour on loading a layer. In my opinion it would be good if QGIS: a) set the projection for a project file/working environment from the first loaded layer if it has the projection information b) prompt for projection information if the layer does not have it c) inform in a popup window when the projection of next loaded layers do not match the projection already set in the working environment (when reprojection on the fly is not ticked) Now, as I personally use metric reference systems (2180, 2176, 2177), every time I open a layer, I have to set the proper CRS and, on the other tab change units from degrees to meters. If I forget to do that, I will get strange scale and strange measurement output. At least the change form geographic to metric projection should force the change of units. Otherwise we won't be able to say that QGIS is user friendly ;) What in your opinion should be the most expected behaviour in a good GIS system? I mean in QGIS I can open now a holiday photo, go to layer properties and get an impresion from it's metadata, that it is already georeferenced: "Layer Spatial Reference System: +proj=longlat +ellps=WGS84 +datum=WGS84 +no_defs" which is of course not true. But we have to think about novice GIS users who might either go dizzy or get bad habits. Best, Milena -- Milena Nowotarska http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Milena_Nowotarska http://quantum-gis.pl/ ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
